iginla
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Post by iginla on Sept 28, 2018 17:29:40 GMT
Look at all the players CV’s and Rheault is streets ahead of any other forward. Whether he produces what his CV says he should is a different matter,but he was clearly signed to be that top line guy. Respectfully disagree. Rheault is a player who had inferior stats last year in the EBEL to Bussieres the year before. "You're only as good as your last season" is one of my maxims. Rheault was indeed a very good player three, even 2 years ago, and before, but last year he was outscored by many a player with a "lesser" CV. By no means am I saying he's not a good player, I just don't see the "he was clearly signed to be that top line guy" take. Forget pre-season, that's like kissing your sister; Guptill, Hurtubise and Kovacs have been superb so far, fulfilling their undoubted promise. Rheault was largely absent (1 assist) in the 4 games he did play. Maybe he was carrying a knock, but Guptill especially looks like a gem of a player, especially for a fourth liner. To be fair, if he is, as the EIHL webiste says, 301 pounds, no wonder he's not been scoring much. I did say what they produce here is a different matter,but purely on CV Rheault is way in front of Guptill. Guptill only played about 80 AHL games and some ECHL against Rheaults 300 ish AHL games then Rheault also has lots of other DEL experience etc. What they produce here is an unknown til they play,but purely on CV Rheault looks far superior. He hasn’t been of course as Guptill has been better so far but until they get here we never know. I can’t see how back in the summer though we would have signed Guptill or Kovacs expecting them to be ahead of Rheault on the roster pecking order.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Sept 28, 2018 17:43:36 GMT
Whether Rheault is top line or not, a guy who happens to be in town is not replacement enough, I agree with Iggy on that.
We know he's out for ages, so let's get something sorted sooner rather than later, and not do our usual thing of dragging it out for months.
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Post by pantherlee on Sept 28, 2018 17:48:26 GMT
Respectfully disagree. Rheault is a player who had inferior stats last year in the EBEL to Bussieres the year before. "You're only as good as your last season" is one of my maxims. Rheault was indeed a very good player three, even 2 years ago, and before, but last year he was outscored by many a player with a "lesser" CV. By no means am I saying he's not a good player, I just don't see the "he was clearly signed to be that top line guy" take. Forget pre-season, that's like kissing your sister; Guptill, Hurtubise and Kovacs have been superb so far, fulfilling their undoubted promise. Rheault was largely absent (1 assist) in the 4 games he did play. Maybe he was carrying a knock, but Guptill especially looks like a gem of a player, especially for a fourth liner. To be fair, if he is, as the EIHL webiste says, 301 pounds, no wonder he's not been scoring much. I can’t see how back in the summer though we would have signed Guptill or Kovacs expecting them to be ahead of Rheault on the roster pecking order. Well Rheault is coming off a poor season in the EBEL which Rich acknowledged when he was signed and Guptill in particular is coming in off a very strong season. Like Bobness says what you did 3-4 years is pretty irrelevant
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Sept 28, 2018 20:28:21 GMT
I can’t see how back in the summer though we would have signed Guptill or Kovacs expecting them to be ahead of Rheault on the roster pecking order. Well Rheault is coming off a poor season in the EBEL which Rich acknowledged when he was signed and Guptill in particular is coming in off a very strong season. Like Bobness says what you did 3-4 years is pretty irrelevant Well based on your thinking that a player is only as good as his previous season it’s a wonder Guptill got signed by about his last half a dozen teams because last season was his first good year. And as for Kovacs,we shouldn’t have signed him because his stats wern’t great last year.
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Post by pantherlee on Sept 28, 2018 21:16:22 GMT
Guptill was a young player a few years ago so his game was probably still developing, also you don't know what role he would have been playing but last season was his breakout year.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Sept 28, 2018 21:25:20 GMT
Guptill was a young player a few years ago so his game was probably still developing, also you don't know what role he would have been playing but last season was his breakout year. Indeed. But you don’t know what role Rheault was playing last year either,but you reckon he isn’t our top line because he had a poor ish year last year.
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Post by pantherlee on Sept 28, 2018 21:30:38 GMT
Guptill was a young player a few years ago so his game was probably still developing, also you don't know what role he would have been playing but last season was his breakout year. Indeed. But you don’t know what role Rheault was playing last year either,but you reckon he isn’t our top line because he had a poor ish year last year. True i don't. But with his age and his numbers before that i doubt he would be on a checking line. Also Chernomaz wouldn't have mentioned him having a poor scoring year if that wasn't his role i wouldn't think. Just to clarify I'm not knocking him. I just don't think its that cut and dried that he's the top guy
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Sept 28, 2018 22:13:02 GMT
Indeed. But you don’t know what role Rheault was playing last year either,but you reckon he isn’t our top line because he had a poor ish year last year. True i don't. But with his age and his numbers before that i doubt he would be on a checking line. Also Chernomaz wouldn't have mentioned him having a poor scoring year if that wasn't his role i wouldn't think. Just to clarify I'm not knocking him. I just don't think its that cut and dried that he's the top guy Mmmm well i can only see Rheault and Hurtubise being signed as number 1 and 2 forwards. They’re the two standout CV’s with the rest of the forwards all looking much of a muchness with lesser CV’s.
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Post by bobness on Sept 29, 2018 12:10:34 GMT
True i don't. But with his age and his numbers before that i doubt he would be on a checking line. Also Chernomaz wouldn't have mentioned him having a poor scoring year if that wasn't his role i wouldn't think. Just to clarify I'm not knocking him. I just don't think its that cut and dried that he's the top guy Mmmm well i can only see Rheault and Hurtubise being signed as number 1 and 2 forwards. They’re the two standout CV’s with the rest of the forwards all looking much of a muchness with lesser CV’s. Well, debating this has got us nowhere but older. A minute ago, Rheault was the only standout cv (“streets ahead”) and now it’s Hurtubise too? If you’re going to argue, at least be consistent.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Sept 29, 2018 14:08:57 GMT
Mmmm well i can only see Rheault and Hurtubise being signed as number 1 and 2 forwards. They’re the two standout CV’s with the rest of the forwards all looking much of a muchness with lesser CV’s. Well, debating this has got us nowhere but older. A minute ago, Rheault was the only standout cv (“streets ahead”) and now it’s Hurtubise too? If you’re going to argue, at least be consistent. I am consistent. Based on CVs the only standout is Rheault,followed by Hurtubise. The rest CV wise look pretty much average,although some play better than their previous stats. You tell me then,looking at our roster back in the summer before you’d seen them play,who would you have had down as the No1 guy and why ?
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Sept 29, 2018 16:52:25 GMT
CVs can't really be taken as much of an indicator though, can they? And for so many reasons:-
- as with any other stats, it's about what they have done in the past, not what they are doing now. Time changes things, and it can go either way for all sorts of reasons. - put a player into a different country, a different league, a different team... do you really expect him to produce the same stats? Hell - put a player onto a different line on the same team can drastically change things (PC Drouin irresistibly comes to mind). - different coaches ask different things from players... a player's CV might look pretty poor, until you find out he was being told that his role was to play defensively. Then he goes to a team where the coach lets him loose offensively - suddenly his numbers skyrocket. The reverse, of course, can also be true. - contributions can't always be measured by stats.
And... do we really care who are supposed to be our 'best' players? It's a team game... if the team wins, the players are succeeding. Doesn't matter if it's the supposed #1 scorer or the supposed #6 who is banging in more goals.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 17:22:56 GMT
What's this page got to do with Lee Vankleef?
FWIW & back on track, he 'fills a hole/role' till something better comes along.
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Post by bobness on Sept 29, 2018 17:36:44 GMT
I am consistent. Based on CVs the only standout is Rheault,followed by Hurtubise. The rest CV wise look pretty much average,although some play better than their previous stats. You tell me then,looking at our roster back in the summer before you’d seen them play,who would you have had down as the No1 guy and why ? I respectfully quote the following posts "Look at all the players CV’s and Rheault is streets ahead of any other forward." "They’re the two standout CV’s with the rest of the forwards all looking much of a muchness with lesser CV’s." How many standout CVs are there, then? One or two? Shaggy's right, though, it doesn't matter. FWIW, and as you asked, before even seeing either of the skate, I was very excited about Guptill, and much less so about Rheault. Largely because of my earlier quoted maxim. Frankly, I've seen nothing yet from Rheault in a competitive game that puts him in any way the same "danger factor" as Guptill. The stats seem to back me up so far. Not that I care though, I confidently predicted after 2 on Wednesday that we wouldn't score at all in that game. Where would you put Pither? Near point a game in ECHL, 0.4PPG in the AHL (where he has more games than his ECHL career), experience in Europe, incluing Liiga? And well over a PPG here last year? Streets ahead of everyone else in third, best of the "lesser" CVs? I haven't even mentioned our current top scorer yet. Shaggy's right, though, it doesn't matter. But yes, back on topic, VanKleef (surely we're going to call him Lee?) looks a decent body, nothing in his game looked out of place on that checking line. If Rheault is out until Christmas, I'd hope Panthers would cast their net a bit wider, though.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Sept 29, 2018 17:51:39 GMT
Oh well we might as well forget CVs and sign a load of college kids with no track record...and hope they come good. Because that’s basically what you’re saying regarding Cv’s.
Forget i even mentioned it I’m done with this thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 17:56:28 GMT
Oh well we might as well forget CVs and sign a load of college kids with no track record...and hope they come good. Because that’s basically what you’re saying regarding Cv’s. Forget i even mentioned it I’m done with this thread. Hallelujah! Bobness' articulate and well reasoned points wins the 'off topic' debate. Yes, he should be known as Lee!
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Post by Walitzer on Sept 29, 2018 21:37:02 GMT
Well, debating this has got us nowhere but older. A minute ago, Rheault was the only standout cv (“streets ahead”) and now it’s Hurtubise too? If you’re going to argue, at least be consistent. I am consistent. Based on CVs the only standout is Rheault,followed by Hurtubise. The rest CV wise look pretty much average,although some play better than their previous stats. You tell me then,looking at our roster back in the summer before you’d seen them play,who would you have had down as the No1 guy and why ? If you're accounting purely for CVs, Rheault was showing a downwards projection. I predicted he would be 5th for point production, behind Perlini, Pither, Guptil and Hurtubise in that silly Goal Prediction thread from months ago. Doesn't seem so far from how the season is developing either, maybe if you swap Perlini for Kovacs. I don't know what would make you think "no.1 guy" from his CV, it shows great experience but a decline in point production, league quality and age/fitness. I don't want to downplay his ability, he's a great player with a lot of speed and worked well with Pither, but you expected too much.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Sept 29, 2018 22:48:29 GMT
I am consistent. Based on CVs the only standout is Rheault,followed by Hurtubise. The rest CV wise look pretty much average,although some play better than their previous stats. You tell me then,looking at our roster back in the summer before you’d seen them play,who would you have had down as the No1 guy and why ? If you're accounting purely for CVs, Rheault was showing a downwards projection. I predicted he would be 5th for point production, behind Perlini, Pither, Guptil and Hurtubise in that silly Goal Prediction thread from months ago. Doesn't seem so far from how the season is developing either, maybe if you swap Perlini for Kovacs. I don't know what would make you think "no.1 guy" from his CV, it shows great experience but a decline in point production, league quality and age/fitness. I don't want to downplay his ability, he's a great player with a lot of speed and worked well with Pither, but you expected too much. I expected a lot more from Perlini after last year I have to say.
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Post by bobness on Sept 30, 2018 8:42:24 GMT
I expected a lot more from Perlini after last year I have to say. He's not got going yet, it must be said. It'll come.
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Post by bobness on Sept 30, 2018 8:46:14 GMT
Don't agree with everything I say? YOU'RE WRONG! You kids will know more than me, but I believe that's called a flounce?
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Jord v4
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Post by Jord v4 on Sept 30, 2018 11:19:33 GMT
Don't agree with everything I say? YOU'RE WRONG! You kids will know more than me, but I believe that's called a flounce? Toys out the pram.... I'd call it that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 12:08:51 GMT
Poor Lee!
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Post by jd on Sept 30, 2018 21:28:18 GMT
Nice assist tonight on the GWG
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