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Post by Old Timer on Mar 28, 2016 23:48:58 GMT
Many people have expressed the view that the playoffs should be extended over 3,5 or even 7 games
Would Fife and Coventry made it though in that format. I doubt it.
Does the present format make it more exciting?
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Post by shmyrohdear on Mar 29, 2016 0:14:04 GMT
Many people have expressed the view that the playoffs should be extended over 3,5 or even 7 games Would Fife and Coventry made it though in that format. I doubt it. Does the present format make it more exciting? Firm believer that the post season format should be played in a series, much more exciting hockey and truly shows which team deserves to take home the glory. League titles aren't the number 1 aim in hockey some people prefer it and class it as the "UK hockey cup to win" but imo that's utter doss. Issue is arena teams will struggle to, A) Get good numbers in for all these games and B) Get the nights to book these games for availability. I think one day it will happen and rightfully so but it won't be for a while yet. |
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Post by Bagheera on Mar 29, 2016 7:49:50 GMT
Many people have expressed the view that the playoffs should be extended over 3,5 or even 7 games Would Fife and Coventry made it though in that format. I doubt it. Does the present format make it more exciting? Firm believer that the post season format should be played in a series, much more exciting hockey and truly shows which team deserves to take home the glory. League titles aren't the number 1 aim in hockey some people prefer it and class it as the "UK hockey cup to win" but imo that's utter doss. Issue is arena teams will struggle to, A) Get good numbers in for all these games and B) Get the nights to book these games for availability. I think one day it will happen and rightfully so but it won't be for a while yet. Totally agree. Play offs is the most important trophy in hockey. If we ever get to the point where we have propper series format then I will deem it to be here in the U.K too. Many still wont but as you say, Hockey is about Play offs to me. Im happy to admit the league is more important at the minute as the PO structure is so poor but only for that reason. I think with a more competitve league and hopefully a couple more teams it will become more obvious that the league and POs are essentially all the same competition. I'm fairly certain(Whether UK fans like it or not) that most players, imports in particular would rather win the play offs than the league, even as it stands. It's all they know. And if they move on after being here it's the PO trophy that other teams managment & coaches will be interested in. |
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 29, 2016 9:34:11 GMT
I think players arriving here for the first time probably think it's all about the playoffs as it is in some other leagues; but they are very quickly educated that in the UK, the league is (Currently) the big one. Think this is because it's how all our other sports work.
I would love to see a longer series based playoff structure, I hope we get it one day, and then I think the tide will change.
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Post by shmyrohdear on Mar 29, 2016 9:52:08 GMT
Firm believer that the post season format should be played in a series, much more exciting hockey and truly shows which team deserves to take home the glory. League titles aren't the number 1 aim in hockey some people prefer it and class it as the "UK hockey cup to win" but imo that's utter doss. Issue is arena teams will struggle to, A) Get good numbers in for all these games and B) Get the nights to book these games for availability. I think one day it will happen and rightfully so but it won't be for a while yet. Totally agree. Play offs is the most important trophy in hockey. If we ever get to the point where we have propper series format then I will deem it to be here in the U.K too. Many still wont but as you say, Hockey is about Play offs to me. Im happy to admit the league is more important at the minute as the PO structure is so poor but only for that reason. I think with a more competitve league and hopefully a couple more teams it will become more obvious that the league and POs are essentially all the same competition. I'm fairly certain(Whether UK fans like it or not) that most players, imports in particular would rather win the play offs than the league, even as it stands. It's all they know. And if they move on after being here it's the PO trophy that other teams managment & coaches will be interested in. I think what will most likely influence the format change is the fact that most young UK hockey fans are watching the NHL as it's so easily accessible now compared to ten years ago and they will be watching our season end and their seasons continue for another two months. That i can only assume will lead to the next generation of fans craving that same experience for our league too. Kelman has already spoken of his desire to have a series format and i hope his influence gets the gears moving sooner rather than later. |
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Mar 29, 2016 10:08:33 GMT
All sorts of issues with a longer playoff format. Ice time, make the league season longer or shorter (shorter would = less gate money for teams so that will NEVER EVER happen), a *proper* conference system and a lot more teams in the league to make it credible.
It's very difficult to get ice time for single extra games so arranging ice time for a series is just a pipe dream unless it was all held at one venue to suit the rink/arena.
Personally I think it's more important to get the league right first with several more stable teams. If the impossible happened and the Caps got into a series final they would have a completely different roster in the first game than the last. I don't think the UK is anywhere near quite honestly.
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Yotes
Forum Admin 
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Post by Yotes on Mar 29, 2016 10:22:51 GMT
And if they move on after being here it's the PO trophy that other teams managment & coaches will be interested in. A modicum of research - which you'd hope a recruiter would do - should free them of that belief. Agree with TFS. I think we'd need at least 6 additional, competitive teams, so there was a realistic chance for teams like us that we could miss the playoffs. At the moment I'd say it was impossible that certain teams (us, Cardiff, Sheffield, Belfast, maybe Braehead) will miss the cut, unless one of us had some catastrophe to deal with. Then you'd have to work out how the series bit could be done over here with ice times etc, look at how we struggle to schedule 2 games for a CC semi final. It seems a long way off to me. The weekend knockout format isn't unheard of over there though, isn't it what the colleges use (Frozen Four etc)? |
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Post by Bagheera on Mar 29, 2016 10:32:36 GMT
It may be a pipe dream at present. I certainly don't deny that it would be tough to get it going. I think we all agree the play offs are no way near good enough as it stands.
Whilst some in the league are purely interested in a quick £ it will be difficult to get in place. The more TKs we can get involved who are truely intersted in the long term project the better. Sadly it won't be easy.
Unfortuantly there will never be a time here where an independant league panel could be more powerfull than the clubs. Even if we somehow got to a point of an independant chairman etc the powerfull clubs would just hold them to ransom or take their puck and play somewhere else.
I live in hope.
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Post by Bagheera on Mar 29, 2016 10:36:46 GMT
This is part of the reason I'm pro playing in a European league. There are plenty of discussions to have around pros and cons of European leagues. Costs, travel etc and I would be dissapointed to lose some of those traditioanl rivalries, but playing in a far more proffesional set up would be so refreshing.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Mar 29, 2016 10:38:35 GMT
It may be a pipe dream at present. I certainly don't deny that it would be tough to get it going. I think we all agree the play offs are no way near good enough as it stands. Whilst some in the league are purely interested in a quick £ it will be difficult to get in place. The more TKs we can get involved who are truely intersted in the long term project the better. Sadly it won't be easy. Unfortuantly there will never be a time here where an independant league panel could be more powerfull than the clubs. Even if we somehow got to a point of an independant chairman etc the powerfull clubs would just hold them to ransom or take their puck and play somewhere else. I live in hope. If the league wasn't intsted in quick £ it wouldn't even exist. |
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Post by Bagheera on Mar 29, 2016 10:42:14 GMT
It may be a pipe dream at present. I certainly don't deny that it would be tough to get it going. I think we all agree the play offs are no way near good enough as it stands. Whilst some in the league are purely interested in a quick £ it will be difficult to get in place. The more TKs we can get involved who are truely intersted in the long term project the better. Sadly it won't be easy. Unfortuantly there will never be a time here where an independant league panel could be more powerfull than the clubs. Even if we somehow got to a point of an independant chairman etc the powerfull clubs would just hold them to ransom or take their puck and play somewhere else. I live in hope. If the league wasn't intsted in quick £ it wouldn't even exist. Again Sadly true. You can bemoan the likes of Black & co all you like but without them we wouldn't be here. The nature of many sports these days. Just that with ours being a minority sport they hold the ultimate power. |
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Caesar
Matt Myers
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Post by Caesar on Mar 29, 2016 12:12:11 GMT
Just because it happens in North America doesn't make it right. The best team in any given season should be the one that consistently performs over a longer period than a few series of games. In my opinion the North Americans have got it wrong
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BigLad
David Clarke
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Posts: 3,585
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Post by BigLad on Mar 29, 2016 14:24:42 GMT
PlayOff series will never work over here until all teams can book their own ice at will.
Imagine NIC having to clear 4/5 weeks worth of dates only for us to lose 3-0 in first round??
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Fez
Lorne Smith
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Post by Fez on Mar 29, 2016 15:09:19 GMT
I say this every year, but...
...The current system is absolutely terrible.
I understand the ice-time booking thing but surely they could go back to a group system like back in the day with the top 2 in each group qualifying for the Finals Weekend? I admit the drawback with this approach is that all 10 teams would need to make the playoffs (to prevent a team like Panthers booking the nights that they can't fulfill), but a system such as:
Group A
Seed 1
Seed 4
Seed 6
Seed 8
Seed 10
Group B
Seed 2
Seed 3
Seed 5
Seed 7
Seed 9
With everyone playing each other once home; once away - would do the job.
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Post by mattscold on Mar 29, 2016 15:29:55 GMT
I say this every year, but... ...The current system is absolutely terrible. I understand the ice-time booking thing but surely they could go back to a group system like back in the day with the top 2 in each group qualifying for the Finals Weekend? I admit the drawback with this approach is that all 10 teams would need to make the playoffs (to prevent a team like Panthers booking the nights that they can't fulfill), but a system such as: Group A Seed 1 Seed 4 Seed 6 Seed 8 Seed 10 Group B Seed 2 Seed 3 Seed 5 Seed 7 Seed 9 With everyone playing each other once home; once away - would do the job. To be honest I think This could work with just the top 8 going through If panthers finish ninth or tenth (or any other arena team for that matter) then they should lose the money on those dates. It would provide a real incentive to ensure you reach the playoffs, and give them more of an importance. In reality it is probably going to be a rink team that doesn't qualify anyway. |
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Post by Bagheera on Mar 29, 2016 15:36:43 GMT
I say this every year, but... ...The current system is absolutely terrible. I understand the ice-time booking thing but surely they could go back to a group system like back in the day with the top 2 in each group qualifying for the Finals Weekend? I admit the drawback with this approach is that all 10 teams would need to make the playoffs (to prevent a team like Panthers booking the nights that they can't fulfill), but a system such as: Group A Seed 1 Seed 4 Seed 6 Seed 8 Seed 10 Group B Seed 2 Seed 3 Seed 5 Seed 7 Seed 9 With everyone playing each other once home; once away - would do the job. To be honest I think This could work with just the top 8 going through If panthers finish ninth or tenth (or any other arena team for that matter) then they should loose the money on those dates. It would provide a real incentive to ensure you reach the playoffs, and give them more of an importance. In reality it is probably going to be a rink team that doesn't qualify anyway. It was this before with as you say, The top 8, not all teams. |
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Post by spik on Mar 29, 2016 18:08:19 GMT
I'd accept the 'series' somewhere in the season. But everything seems to be against it. So I am with the option of two league type conferences but that is just another Challenge cup ideal, so a KO type system is what we are left with. Don't enlarge the league number of games , reduce them and use the free games to better the PO.
I've mentioned the Australian rules method, your only problem there is just to get the arena/rinks booked, same old whatever we do.
Overall I'm sure we can beef up these PO's.
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NP
Lorne Smith
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Post by NP on Mar 29, 2016 22:24:30 GMT
Could take out 8 league games in your own conference; so then in the league you would play each team in your own conference 6 times (24 games) & in the other conference 4 times. (20 games) Would mean could then do the play offs in groups and so would also lessen the advantage of the easier Gardiner conference. Would also increase the likelyness of the bigger teams making it through to the playoff finals weekend, so they would be against it.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,429
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Post by iginla on Mar 29, 2016 23:29:03 GMT
They should do a play off series,but they won't anytime soon.
The best we will ever get will be a best of three quarter final,then the current play off weekend.
They won't go for say a best of five,because if it's over in three games there are two unused booked arenas for clubs to pay for.
And they won't scrap the big weekend,because it's a HUGE cash cow for them !
I would settle for a three game quarter,followed by the current weekend,I don't see that's unreasonable for the league to adopt.
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Post by spik on Mar 30, 2016 9:39:24 GMT
They should do a play off series,but they won't anytime soon. The best we will ever get will be a best of three quarter final,then the current play off weekend. They won't go for say a best of five,because if it's over in three games there are two unused booked arenas for clubs to pay for. And they won't scrap the big weekend,because it's a HUGE cash cow for them ! I would settle for a three game quarter,followed by the current weekend,I don't see that's unreasonable for the league to adopt. Is it not possible to rent ice for 5 dates pre season (or whatever number needed) in readiness for PO time and take these from the league ( I've done no calculations on this) ......is everything just impossible to Elite. Because these ideas above seen sensible to discuss. |
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Ian
Matt Myers
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Post by Ian on Apr 1, 2016 10:33:59 GMT
I'd certainly be in favour of a more extensive playoff format. As things stand, it is theoretically (in terms of games played, potential for slip-ups etc.) the easiest of the three titles to win and even if we allow for the importance of the league title in this country that can't be right. It should certainly be harder to win than the cup.
I can't see a series-style format getting off the ground for all the reasons mentioned in previous posts. Also I wouldn't really want to see the end of the finals weekend, which is a very special and unique event that British hockey should be proud of. So how do we resolve the situation? Well to start with we could have a round-robin stage as Fez mentioned, like we used to have in Heineken League and ISL days. If it worked then in terms of ice time it will work now. At least that way you get to play more games over a longer period to qualify for the finals weekend and each game stands on its own (which is what imports seem to find most strange about the two-leg format). Two groups with the best two teams from each getting through. Simple enough, and no possibility of booked ice time not being needed.
At the same time, I'd like to see a reorganisation of the cup. Current number of teams favours a round-robin rather than straight knockout but certainly there's no need to then have a quarter final stage (that is pure and simple profiteering from clubs). Round robin unless/until we can drum up 16 teams for a straight knockout format, top four teams into a two-leg semi, with a one-off final as in the past two years. Also do away with the ridiculous idea of "doubling up" cup and league games. Every game should be a clearly defined part of a particular competition. In fact I'd make it like the B&H used to be - round robin section of the cup is played before the league campaign starts, with the final before Christmas. Spreads the big, intense games through the season and helps avoid fixture congestion come February / March when teams are competing on all fronts.
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gump
Pat Casey
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Post by gump on Apr 1, 2016 13:28:34 GMT
The present format favours only the big budget teams who when injury or poor play happens can afford to make changes. The only reason the league has these other competitions is to give some supporters something to play for when the majority of teams are out of the league title before Xmas. Most buildings in the league do not book out every night same as in North America so scheduling a playoff format is not impossible. In those buildings where it is u move to another or play on the road with a shared gate. The attitude it won't work here is part of the problem in growing this league and allowing it's soccer mentality to continue which is why the IIHF thinks British ice hockey is so far behind the times.
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BigLad
David Clarke
TWITTER: @AntMJ11
Posts: 3,585
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Post by BigLad on Apr 5, 2016 12:29:25 GMT
I hate this "soccer mentality" rubbish. (PS, it's football, not soccer).
Besides, don't you think the rest of the hockey world has it wrong?
How is a team that is the best over the entire season not rewarded with the top prize? IMO, we're the only ones to have it right!!
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Post by mattscold on Apr 5, 2016 12:39:46 GMT
I hate this "soccer mentality" rubbish. (PS, it's football, not soccer). Besides, don't you think the rest of the hockey world has it wrong? How is a team that is the best over the entire season not rewarded with the top prize? IMO, we're the only ones to have it right!! It's Association Football, just to continue the pedantry. However, I agree with you how can being the best over 80 odd games like in the NHL not make you the champions? Why are the (maximum) 28 games at the end the most important. |
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Post by shmyrohdear on Apr 5, 2016 12:49:31 GMT
I hate this "soccer mentality" rubbish. (PS, it's football, not soccer). Besides, don't you think the rest of the hockey world has it wrong? How is a team that is the best over the entire season not rewarded with the top prize? IMO, we're the only ones to have it right!! It's Association Football, just to continue the pedantry. However, I agree with you how can being the best over 80 odd games like in the NHL not make you the champions? Why are the (maximum) 28 games at the end the most important. Because over 82 games they all have different schedules and different teams they play. Some situations suit a team better. The 28 games are played close together and show consistency and that clutch mentality. A league title is a football thing. It has never been a hockey trophy, to say that it is when since the sport was made global and competitive it's always been lead to this system is just ignorant. Playoff hockey is the most exciting medium of hockey there is. |
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