team
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 162
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Post by team on Aug 11, 2015 17:00:18 GMT
I'm not sure it's necessarily a case of having your cake and eating it though. While I don't pretend to know the figures on how insurance works with long-term injuries, if Clarke (just for example, I know it's far fetched) gets injured we could theoretically replace him by filling the "spare" import slot - you then simply have 13+8 instead of 12+9. On the money side, it's commonly said that British players are more expensive than equivalent imports due to their scarcity value, so the budget could still work out in such a case. It's all guesswork really though. Incidentally, I 100% agree with you on the fact that we should not be running below the permitted import level regardless of the British players we have signed. I just think that is a separate debate from this thread about season predictions, which is all about how we are likely to fare given the roster we have signed (not the one we ought to sign, if that makes sense). I don't think we would be playing an import down for very long (if at all). CL and RS might be looking to see how the squad shapes up with a view to putting a player into a weak spot a few games in rather than carry players season long who just don't fit in. Some of our best players are those who have been signed after the season started if you look back over the last few years. Please keep in mind that the ECHL and AHL don't even start camps until after our season starts.
So guys will be hoping for a spot there first and then we have opportunity's late September early October.
This certainly plays a role in what CN is having to manage.
Somewhat the same on the Euro side as well in some leagues.
Must not we forget this is a TEAM game and I've never met a hockey player or coach who does not do everything they can to WIN!
Go Panthers!
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Post by texpef on Aug 11, 2015 18:28:53 GMT
If as originally put out that this was to evaluate what is needed in the team once the season has started and see who may become available once the season has started then fair enough but if this is alleged due to financial restraints because we have signed x number of supposed quality brits then it plainly is wrong as we don't even see the likes of the very lowest wages clubs hampering themselves this way. You cant replace a brit with an import, if a brit gets crocked then you lose then for the season if an import gets injured they just get replaced with another import, simples.. Oh and Doom if Sheffield hadn't started the season with a full compliment of imports I am pretty sure their fanbase would have a lot to say about it. That depends on the depth and quality of our Brits. Had we brought in a couple of top end British players but started the season an import short then I certainly wouldn't have complained. Regards Doom This from a fan of the team with the alleged two most expensive brits in the league and now probably the most expensive import in the league in Roy...yet they managed to sign a full complement of imports plus a fitness coach plus a spare import... go figure...
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,446
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Post by iginla on Aug 11, 2015 18:45:26 GMT
And Tex,quite possibly one of if not the most expensive coach too.......He's expensive now he is a seasoned European coach you know.......Lol
God if ever I wanted to see somebody fall flat on his face,it's Thommo this season !!!
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Doom
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,591
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Post by Doom on Aug 12, 2015 6:57:49 GMT
That depends on the depth and quality of our Brits. Had we brought in a couple of top end British players but started the season an import short then I certainly wouldn't have complained. Regards Doom This from a fan of the team with the alleged two most expensive brits in the league and now probably the most expensive import in the league in Roy...yet they managed to sign a full complement of imports plus a fitness coach plus a spare import... go figure... Dowd and O'Connor probably are up there with the most expensive Brits in the league, but the rest of our Brits will be relatively cheap (Phillips, Hewitt and Ferrara). You have Myers, Clarke, Lacho and Farmer, all of whom are top end Brits, not to mention Lee, Swindlehurst and Betteridge.....there's no comparison between the two squads in terms of the quality in depth. Regards Doom
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Post by texpef on Aug 12, 2015 8:45:46 GMT
Yet even now Doom as you are well aware its the standard of imports in the squad that determines whether the club win trophies (and has always been in our country) not the quality of brits.. Edinburgh had the best british player in the league and won nowt...
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Doom
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,591
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Post by Doom on Aug 12, 2015 9:21:20 GMT
Yet even now Doom as you are well aware its the standard of imports in the squad that determines whether the club win trophies (and has always been in our country) not the quality of brits.. Edinburgh had the best british player in the league and won nowt...
I'd say it's a mixture of the two.
You won't win anything with poor imports, but it's also difficult to win the league title if your Brits are poor.
Would Nottingham have won the same amount of silverware these last few years without the regular contribution of 30 goals from David Clarke? - My guess is they wouldn't.
Without Robert Dowd Belfast wouldn't have won the league a few seasons ago, because it was his regular contribution of goals during their injury crisis that made the difference.
Obviously imports make the biggest contribution, because there's more of them on any squad, but without quality Brits I don't think a team would win the league unless the system is weighted in their favour (ie. Braehead).
Obviously as the import limit increases then the value of Brits reduces, but I'd still say having quality Brits does make a big difference to a squad, especially when the inevitable injury crisis strikes. Regards
Doom
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Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
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Post by Ian on Aug 12, 2015 10:34:13 GMT
Yet even now Doom as you are well aware its the standard of imports in the squad that determines whether the club win trophies (and has always been in our country) not the quality of brits.. Edinburgh had the best british player in the league and won nowt...
I'd say it's a mixture of the two.
You won't win anything with poor imports, but it's also difficult to win the league title if your Brits are poor.
Would Nottingham have won the same amount of silverware these last few years without the regular contribution of 30 goals from David Clarke? - My guess is they wouldn't.
Without Robert Dowd Belfast wouldn't have won the league a few seasons ago, because it was his regular contribution of goals during their injury crisis that made the difference.
Obviously imports make the biggest contribution, because there's more of them on any squad, but without quality Brits I don't think a team would win the league unless the system is weighted in their favour (ie. Braehead).
Obviously as the import limit increases then the value of Brits reduces, but I'd still say having quality Brits does make a big difference to a squad, especially when the inevitable injury crisis strikes. Regards
Doom
Tex, while I understand what you're saying I don't totally agree. British players have to make up a large chunk of the roster and if they are of good quality, it puts far less pressure on the recruitment and performance of your imports. You can occasionally get away with it if you strike very lucky on the import front but that would tend to be an exception. We both recall the good old days when Durham had the best Brits by miles and were the dominant force. Then two of those key home-grown players were lured to Cardiff and guess what, the Devils won the lot. Panthers were also-rans until they started reaping the fruits of their strong junior development programme. Yes, you only had 3 imports in those days so good Brits made more difference, but the same principle applies. To be a dominant team, you need good imports and good British players. Panthers' most successful period, culminating in the Grand Slam, saw major contributions from Clarke, Myers, Meyers, Lachowicz, Weaver, Lee and others. Yes, we had some top imports too - names like Kowalski, Lepine, Ling, Fox and Beauregard leap to mind - but even their quality might not have brought the silverware it did if our Brits had been just kids making up the numbers. Panthers are currently in an enviable position in terms of the British lads we have, with players who are proven in our league who can do much more than warm the bench and give our imports an occasional rest. They are one of the biggest strengths of our club on the playing front and I like the fact that our coach values them so highly. I especially agree with what Doom says about Clarke. I think people tend to underestimate the contribution he makes to our team and he comes in for lots of unnecessary stick from fans. He is the most consistent goalscorer in the Elite League era, British or import. If we signed an import with that record, people would be excited but because it's a long-standing Brit they are a bit "meh" when he signs up. Personally, I would sooner pay his wage than some random overseas player who may or (more likely based on past experience) may not be any good - if he stays free of injury you know Clarkey is good for more goals than any of last season's imports managed. I think people get far too hung up on the imports/Brits question. The British players we have retained and brought in are all players that we know can do a good job in the EIHL - the coach isn't gambling on unknown quantities. Surely that is a good way to recruit? Added to which they should not require an adjustment period to get used to our game and are less likely to depart mid-season if they get a better offer or their wives don't like living in England. Backed up with some high-end import signings I see no reason why they cannot give us a stable foundation to challenge for honours again.
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Post by cjmatt42 on Aug 12, 2015 12:19:39 GMT
On paper we stand a better chance than last year of winning something. The final two signings will be critical, a face off winning playmaking centre is key and then someone to add some size to the forward lines would be great. At this stage you'd like to think you can upgrade Lizon from what looked like hired hands to someone who might end up contributing around 30 points in the season while still acting as a deterrent.
The biggest concern for me is who is going to be here and how fit are they going to be. As guidance the UK Government website puts three weeks on turning around a visa application. Now it might be we've announced Schultz on Monday once he has had his visa issued and we are just waiting for the final two and they will be in the UK in plenty of time. Alternatively we haven't started the application until a player put pen to paper on a playing contract in which case we might not be able to book flights for 3 of the 12 imports until the week leading up to the Dundee game! The later has a real attitude of arrogance that we don't feel that we need to prepare properly for that game and that the following week is when our season begins!
Time will tell I suppose...
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nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
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Post by nate24 on Aug 12, 2015 13:29:12 GMT
For the love of the hockey gods I hope they don't miss the Aladdin cup!!
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Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,424
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Post by Yotes on Aug 12, 2015 13:38:36 GMT
I know the Aladdin Cup is a joke, but it will be our final pre-season game, so they should all be here by then. I'll be amazed if they are though.
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Post by craighead on Aug 15, 2015 8:59:23 GMT
I think one high level signing followed by a later reinforcement would make us competitive in our conference but the farce that will allow Clan to be champions this year will stop us from challenging for our second league title in 35 years ( Neil Black take note in case this statistic eludes you).
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Doom
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,591
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Post by Doom on Aug 15, 2015 9:03:47 GMT
Still a bit early, so I'm going to lump teams together: 1. Braehead - They'd be challengers in a traditional league structure, so to effectively give them a 10 point advantage makes them clear favourites. They don't have the quality depth of the other top teams, but that won't matter in their conference. 2 to 5 - Belfast, Cardiff, Sheffield and Nottingham - I don't think there will be a cigarette paper between them. Nottingham have the best Brits by some margin (I think some of your negative posters keep forgetting this). Sheffield arguably have the best 2 Brits in the league along with a core of the players that won the title last season. Belfast have made the most impressive signing in the league, although their biggest weakness maybe the age of the squad. Cardiff appear to have made a slight upgrade with the likes of Doucet and Salters. 6. Coventry - Some good astute signings and they will give all teams a tough time, but they have a fairly weak group of Brits and I don't see any standout goal scorers on the squad. I think the coach has done well with the budget he has, but I suspect that budget is quite a bit less than some of the other big boys. 7. Fife - I'm really surprised some of you have them so low. The likes of Dingle, Dorr, Stockton and Craig all have goals in them. 8. Dundee - They look better than last season, but I think Fife edge them overall. 9. Manchester - Despite a bigger budget than Sheffield, I really don't see them doing much in their 1st season back. 10 Edinburgh - I must be seeing something different to others, because all I see is a team full of low budget players. Ryan Hayes looks quality, the rest would struggle to get in the Coventry team. Regards Doom With all the latest signings, I think I'm now ready to take a punt at 2 - 5. 2. Nottingham - You have both depth and quality, even if you are going to be 1 import short. 3. Belfast - The biggest issue for them is probably the age of the squad and the fitness and form of Murphy. In my opinion they will have the best player in the league. 4. Cardiff - They've improved on a good squad last season, I just feel others have improved by slightly more. Their 3 forward lines look frighteningly good, although I'm less convinced by their defence. 5. Sheffield - I think we've upgraded slightly, but the new players we've brought in don't quite have the quality of CV that some of our rivals have. I still think it will be very tight between all 4 teams and it could finish in any order, but because it looks so tight I think that's certain to let Braehead in, even though I'd probably rate their squad 5th best. Regards Doom
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Post by craighead on Aug 15, 2015 9:10:58 GMT
Doom, I calculate that if injury free Clarke (30) and Myers (18) could add approximately 30 -35 goals to last seasons total ( Clarke's injury killed us points wise) but I agree it's Clan's title. If there has to be a conference system maybe they should now be in ours!
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nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
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Post by nate24 on Aug 15, 2015 9:46:04 GMT
Doom, I calculate that if injury free Clarke (30) and Myers (18) could add approximately 30 -35 goals to last seasons total ( Clarke's injury killed us points wise) but I agree it's Clan's title. If there has to be a conference system maybe they should now be in ours! Just like our team their players have to come in hungry and stay healthy that's the wild card. Though at the minute I can't see anyone else taking the title.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,424
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Post by Yotes on Aug 15, 2015 20:15:36 GMT
With our complete roster and feeling pretty cocky:
Panthers - don't really see a better roster out there. Clan - good roster, helpful conference, but, Finnerty. Devils - another good roster, but I think we edge them. Giants - as above really, these 2 could be either way, Walser's new to it though so take Lord to edge them out. Steelers - roster looks so so to me, plus is Thommo all that? I'm not expecting silverware for them. Blaze - could edge out the Yorks if the coach can make them more than the sum of their parts. Flyers - some interesting bits on the roster like Caig, could surprise. Capitals - young and new coach, think they'll be improved on last year and creep into the playoffs. Stars - Lefebruary, don't rate him. Storm - tough first season.
Panthers to win the CC, because we do that sort of thing, and Giants the POs.
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Post by Bagheera on Feb 28, 2016 18:12:47 GMT
So as the season draws to a close what are peoples thoughts now? Keeping my heart out of it as much as possible. Considering form, history and run ins Im going. League: Sheffield CC: Panthers. Could go either way but aside lasr year we have a great history with the trophy. Playoffs: Im backing Coventry for a repeat performance. Have proven they can beat anybody on their day. Weber seems to know how to win down the stretch.
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Post by ted logan on Feb 28, 2016 18:44:19 GMT
League:- Sheffield
Cup:- Cardiff
Play offs:- Us
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