Supporters Club Fall Out

[tootoo]

So the Panthers have cut ties with the Supporters Club.

Any views?

Is it a case of profit before people? Or were the NPSC simply no longer viable?

[Yotes]

For anyone wondering:
pantherssc.co.uk/committee-update/

[Ian]

Personally I don't know whether the NPSC offers good value or worthwhile services to its members, or whether it has the relevance it used to have. But I don't think that is the true issue here. It looks to me like this is all about the club not wanting there to be any aspect of Panthers hockey that they do not control and make money from. The rest is just smokescreen. Expecting the NPSC to meet the same criteria as commercial partners is ridiculous and was only ever going to have one outcome, but this way the club can say that they gave every opportunity.
The final nail in the coffin of this old club being anything other than a cash cow for owner and management.

[Yotes]

So will this be the end of the SC? Have Panthers kicked their own supporters club into the long grass? Bizarre if so. Some of the costs listed seem pretty weak (announcements over the tannoy, come on).

[Deleted]

On 21 May the club posted this:
A Panthers' club spokeswoman said today : "We can only thank our fans again for keeping us at the forefront of the sport not just in the UK. Now we are venturing into Europe again with the Champions Hockey League. It's all heading in the right direction but our fans are the best. The GM gets into trouble for saying so as often as he does, but he's right, the Panthers' fans are the best, simply the best!"

Are the best fans now getting a kick in the teeth !!!

[tootoo]

The point is though that if the arena are charging you 10k a night to rent the place, and you're having to pay an extra import, you have approach things from a commercial angle. I was a member of the club for one year, I liked the discounted away travel and on the two occasions I went with them thought it was generally well organised. But the fact that they were giving away memberships last year makes me think it was no longer a viable enterprise. There's no backlash on their facebook site so I can only conclude not that many people are bothered.

[Shorty]

Jun 2, 2014 20:22:22 GMT @oxo5221 said:

On 21 May the club posted this:
A Panthers' club spokeswoman said today : "We can only thank our fans again for keeping us at the forefront of the sport not just in the UK. Now we are venturing into Europe again with the Champions Hockey League. It's all heading in the right direction but our fans are the best. The GM gets into trouble for saying so as often as he does, but he's right, the Panthers' fans are the best, simply the best!"

Are the best fans now getting a kick in the teeth !!!

I don't think I have got kicked in the teeth.

Not had anything to do with the supporters club for a very long time, and if the club can generate a better profit elsewhere, then I for one am all for it.

[Peacock]

Jun 2, 2014 20:22:22 GMT @oxo5221 said:

Are the best fans now getting a kick in the teeth !!!

How many of the Panthers fan base are a actually members of the supporters club?

How does this affect those who aren't members?

In my own opinion, most won't even notice any difference.

[Mythosman]

Jun 2, 2014 20:14:01 GMT Ian said:

Personally I don't know whether the NPSC offers good value or worthwhile services to its members, or whether it has the relevance it used to have. But I don't think that is the true issue here. It looks to me like this is all about the club not wanting there to be any aspect of Panthers hockey that they do not control and make money from. The rest is just smokescreen. Expecting the NPSC to meet the same criteria as commercial partners is ridiculous and was only ever going to have one outcome, but this way the club can say that they gave every opportunity.
The final nail in the coffin of this old club being anything other than a cash cow for owner and management.

Spot on Ian - couldn't have put it better myself!

Their decision 'to bring remaining events etc. in-house for the foreseeable future' should ideally be given the cold shoulder by the fans who have attended these events for many years - effectively impose a boycott on them - see how they react to a few empty rooms?

Sadly, the Panthers business model is such that they can now make more money from attracting casual 'walk-ups' than having a larger cohort of Season Ticket holders, which I suspect is why they spend most of their time and resources trying to attract this transient 'non-fan' market (which they also see as less problematic), to the ultimate detriment of the longer-term genuine hockey fans?

I just hope their 'business decision' comes back to bite them on the bum big time!

[Olaw d'Elpus]

The Supporters club is run by people who spend a lot of time and effort, not only arranging away trips and events for members, but also raised money for a different charity every season and contributed to the Panthers chosen charity as well. They paid their way, and sponsored the home bench as well.

The privileged few, those who sponsor players and matches, will be at the front of the queue for management-organised events, while the rest of us will be shoved to the back, that is if we can afford to go...

I have already paid for my season ticket, but I shall be giving 50/50 and Eye of the Panther a miss next season.

[spik]

I was never a fan of the supporters club (no pun intended) but it may have been of interest or a good social event happening for some.So just because I had no dealings with it don't feel it's reason to kill it off.It comes to something when business evaporates all that is left of 'fan' involvement that could be the only link between management and supporter.
Like Ian says and Mythosman agrees.... +1 on what has been said there.

I would like to see them continue and hope that fans make good of their own event. Players attending social gatherings should never have come down to cost effectiveness.
Things have changed...you can't get near a player now days.Less you have permission.

[Shaggy]

Really not liking the look of this...

OK, I've not been a member of the SC for several years now, and I've disagreed with a lot of what it's done (or not done, more to the point). Quite frankly, I think they've at least partly brought this upon themselves... gone into a decline (how many away coaches getting cancelled every season?) and yet every time someone tried to make suggestions or ask them to change - yes, I'm just one of many - the reaction was usually hostile, even condescending. It all got very cliquey, and seemed to be a club for a select few with the rest of us just tagging along. The listing of the various costs raises an eyebrow as well (although how many of them are 'real' costs, and how many are opportunity costs?).

But all of that being said... this just makes the Panthers look more and more insular, which is an image that they have had for many years now - rightly or wrongly. It would be living in a dream world to believe that any club exists primarily for its fans, that they are what it cares about most of all... as nice as it sounds, that's never going to happen. But again and again, the Panthers keep giving the impression that more and more we are just seen as money machines... nothing more. Doesn't leave a very nice taste in the mouth.

Granted, this is just one side of the story, and no doubt is slanted to some extent or another (maybe even unintentionally)... but even bearing that in mind - no, this does not look good.

[pantherdman]

No supporters club.
No players union.
No in dependant league chairman.
No official rule book.
Anyone see a pattern here?

Orwellian.

Speak with your feet.
For years I haven't brought any merch, programmes, beer etc.
Now after last season, no season ticket.

The supporters club wasn't perfect but what do you expect with no support from the club?
It is very important that the fans have a voice IMO.

[cjmatt42]

I'll be honest I don't really see a problem in this. I've regularly attended the NIC for around 7 years and been a season ticket holder for past couple and I couldn't tell you what benefits or services the supporters club provides. Despite having a desk in the foyer up until this season there was never anything on it that enticed me to even walk over and have a look never mind talk to someone about membership or visit a website (The link above was the first time I knew they had one!). Seems like a dated product that hasn't moved with the times.

Therefore if you're not generating interest among your average supporter then it surly is bordering on redundant? Seems sensible to sell the sponsorship of the home bench etc to a higher profile sponsor that will generate more money and a better profile? Sometimes decisions aren't about generating extra money they are just about saving money that is otherwise being wasted... Obviously just my opinion.

[Shorty]

Jun 3, 2014 5:47:46 GMT pantherdman said:

It is very important that the fans have a voice IMO.

Panthers management read The Cage, and surely this is a voice - otherwise why do people post?

They have taken action over things posted on here before.

[Yotes]

Jun 2, 2014 20:23:14 GMT tootoo said:

There's no backlash on their facebook site so I can only conclude not that many people are bothered.

Perhaps the people who most use the supporters club aren't on Facebook. I'm not a member either, and never have been, but there could well be people sat at home now who aren't going to be going to away games from now on because they relied on it.

Obviously I only know the one side of it, but do they really need the SC to be a "commercial partner" in the way it apparently is? Do Panthers really lose a lot of money for allowing them a stand on match night, or announcing over the PA that there's a coach running to wherever? Why do the SC need a banner behind the bench, or a advertising board? It just seems a bit poor that no middle ground could be found, sounds like they just want the SC out of the frame tbh.

[tootootrain]

Jun 2, 2014 20:22:22 GMT @oxo5221 said:

...Are the best fans now getting a kick in the teeth !!!

No.

You don't need to be a badge bedecked NPSC member to be a fan and I'd suggest far more of us aren't members than are.

[Ian]

As I said in the previous post, the commercial partner stuff is just a smokescreen to me when you take a look.
(1) Stand on match nights - What does this cost the club? If the NPSC didn't use it, they could offer it to other companies who would pay, but who? Can't be food/beverage/refreshments due to contracts with NIC providers, probably can't be hockey equipment or merchandise due to similar issues with NIC shop, what other companies would want it and be prepared to pay for it? The lack of varied commercial stalls at the playoff weekend when the spaces are available to outside companies suggests it's a tough sell.
(2) Announcements during match - Are they really claiming this as a cost? Or that commercial sponsors are feeling miffed about it? If I were to have my business sponsor a sporting team, I would fully expect that a proportion of advertising space, announcements etc. would be devoted to "internal" matters - ticket sales, events, fans' information etc. etc. Don't know about anyone else, but I do not feel there is a lack of sponsor announcements at any game I've attended. If our relationships with commercial sponsors are so weak that we have to kiss their backsides over this kind of thing, it is time to take a look at our supposedly excellent business marketing.
(3) "Back stage passes" - This costs nothing. Anyone who has a stall, holds a collection etc. on match night gets a pass to access areas that ordinary punters can't go, which they need to do to operate whatever they are doing. That's all it is, despite the club's efforts to make it sound like a major concession and add some showbiz glamour to it with a daft title.
(4) Adverts in programme - The only one that may have some merit. If they have sponsors queuing up to pay good money for advertising space, giving it away free is not sound business. But I would like to see some evidence beyond a vague claim that this is actually the case.
(5) Supporters' events - Bringing these in house smacks of being a pure money-making move. They criticise the NPSC for not being commercially viable, then in the next breath withdraw their support for one part of the supporters' club's operations that could be a money spinner. They can't have it both ways.

You have to understand I am not defending the NPSC as such. I have not been a member of any kind of supporters' club since before the NIC opened, and hearsay evidence picked up from those who have been suggests it did become a bit of a "closed shop" that served the committee not its members. There are certainly things I have looked at from the outside and questioned - for me, supporters' club funds should subsidise fan events and away travel, not be used to sponsor the team (which there are ample corporate backers to do), and if I were a paying member I would not be impressed to see away trips cancelled while the major expense of bench sponsorship persists. By engaging in sponsorship alongside businesses, they have also set themselves up for the way the club has now treated them.
However, I am not impressed with the way the club has gone about this, nor the way they have dressed it up in vague and unconvincing commercial language. Perhaps a better thing to do would be to redefine the nature, role and operation of a supporters' club, and discuss ways that the club can help them to become more professional, efficient and relevant.

[Pies]

You have to ask 2 questions: What does the Supporters club do that benefits the club? By the response Panthers have said, it takes away money opportunities first of all. Also, with the growth of social media, Panthers can organize their own social events without the supporters club. So what are they doing for the Panthers. My answer: very little.

And what does it bring to your average fan: Having been a fan for 20 years, I've not once seen any benefits the supporters club has bought me. It's always seemed like a closed shop and they're the "true" Panthers fans from an outside perspective. They don't do anything that makes me think "that's a great idea, I want to be part of this" I could be completely wrong because I don't really know what they do or even who they are and surely that says a lot after 20 years of attending?!

[asbo26]

Panthers is just a business and we are just parts in the supply chain.

[Yotes]

Jun 3, 2014 9:16:15 GMT Pies said:

You have to ask 2 questions: What does the Supporters club do that benefits the club? By the response Panthers have said, it takes away money opportunities first of all. Also, with the growth of social media, Panthers can organize their own social events without the supporters club. So what are they doing for the Panthers. My answer: very little.

Why does the SC need to benefit the club particularly? Doesn't the membership already do that?

Panthers as a business exists because of us. There's no one paying several thousand for a banner behind the bench without us. The SC - like the Cage, or the Facebook page(s), or the Twitterers - are just a grouping of fans, that the club have seemingly offered nothing to them to allow that to continue to function seems very poor to me. I'm not saying they should just continue to run it in the same way, but some of the things they're taking away (by the sounds of that letter) aren't causing the club any hardship.

[Pies]

Jun 3, 2014 9:53:38 GMT Yotes said:

Jun 3, 2014 9:16:15 GMT Pies said:

You have to ask 2 questions: What does the Supporters club do that benefits the club? By the response Panthers have said, it takes away money opportunities first of all. Also, with the growth of social media, Panthers can organize their own social events without the supporters club. So what are they doing for the Panthers. My answer: very little.

Why does the SC need to benefit the club particularly? Doesn't the membership already do that?

Panthers as a business exists because of us. There's no one paying several thousand for a banner behind the bench without us. The SC - like the Cage, or the Facebook page(s), or the Twitterers - are just a grouping of fans, that the club have seemingly offered nothing to them to allow that to continue to function seems very poor to me. I'm not saying they should just continue to run it in the same way, but some of the things they're taking away (by the sounds of that letter) aren't causing the club any hardship.

The reason I ask that is because the club, by the accounts of the letter, are giving the supporters club discounts on sponsoring the bench but by giving them a discount, what are the supporters club bringing to the table that another sponsor who may pay twice as much as the SC isn't? And the answer seems to be very little. So why shouldn't the club pursue other avenues of finance? I'm not saying the supporters club has no role but clearly what they want and what the club want are differenet

[BigLad]

There’s already been multiple posts about the SC being a “clique”. I’ve been a member on and off for a number of years, and all I’ve seen in return for my money is a pin badge. I don’t even use the coach anymore as I’d rather drive it and get to the away venue at a time of my choosing, as opposed to just before faceoff leaving no time to do anything when you’re there.

I got the impression more and more that the SC used their “status” purely as a way to “get in” with the players. Why do you need a backstage pass? Why do you need to sponsor the bench? Etc.

Should there be a Supporters Club at all – of course there should be. But they need to have a long look at what they offer, compare it to other SC’s around the country in all sports, and then make a decision as to what would benefit their key demographic…the fans that buy into the SC, not just so the people who run it can go shopping with Leigh Salters.

Don’t get me wrong, the way the Panthers org have handled this is shocking and smacks purely of £$€ and nothing else, but I can’t help but think that the SC have partly brought this on themselves.

[Yotes]

Jun 3, 2014 10:30:32 GMT Pies said:

The reason I ask that is because the club, by the accounts of the letter, are giving the supporters club discounts on sponsoring the bench but by giving them a discount, what are the supporters club bringing to the table that another sponsor who may pay twice as much as the SC isn't? And the answer seems to be very little. So why shouldn't the club pursue other avenues of finance? I'm not saying the supporters club has no role but clearly what they want and what the club want are differenet

The club though do seem to view the SC as having no role, they've pretty much killed it off. I've no problems with them not wanting to give the SC the bench banner (my memory ain't great, but I'm pretty sure that ended in the Grand Slam season), or a board advert (do we even sell all of them out?), or even a programme advert. But the reason those things have any value is the fans. The SC isn't a group I belong to, or want to, but for those that do they've been cast aside. Couldn't they have, as Ian says far better than me, redefined what the SC was for and its role, rather than throw it under the bus?

It's not just a Panthers thing, but sports businesses do seem to have this tendency to take the supporters a bit for granted. Works great when things are going in the right direction, but might find a few burnt bridges should the tide turn.

[grumpy]

I do feel sorry for the supporters club officials who give their time to organize events, travel etc and it is a shame that the club cannot continue to support them. However, this is professional sport and the reality is that if, as fans, we want the best players and the team winning trophies and taking part in European competition, then the management will take hard nosed commercial decisions. Annual budgets in The EIHL don`t leave a lot of slack, even for the more successful teams, and so long as we continue to devote adequate resources to the team I don`t have a problem. A shame for those loyal and long serving members of the NPSC but the game has changed over the years since it was formed and we all now demand success on the ice, which has to be funded.