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Post by PantherG on Sept 23, 2012 14:16:22 GMT
I fully expect to be shot down in flames here but I am going to say what is on my mind anyway.
In the off season Cory sacked Danny Meyers and it caused quite a reaction. I know some people here were puzzled but the 'we have faith in Corey' was pretty much evident and there are numerous posts from people who fully believed this decision must have been made to ensure we finally won the league. Of course once he signed for Sheffield the abusive posts crept in! However, there was a significant outpouring of emotion from many of the current players, I read numerous comments on Twitter and it was without a doubt a hugely controversial and risky move on Corey's part.
Do you think that as a result the team has lost all respect for Corey and it is impacting the dressing room and team morale? The team appears to have no cohesion, on ice leadership and there is an apparent lack of passion, we might be out shooting the opposition but the real chances are fleeting and the ones we do have are missed or shot wide! When I see the team in action it looks like a bunch of individuals trying to play hockey, rather that a team who want to win at all costs. There is indiscipline with the team (Tuma), we have accepted and are paying a salary to a player who is overweight, slow and has fiery temper, that only leaves us shorthanded at critical times. What is being done to address this? Would any other coach in the UK view this as acceptable?
So I ask do you think the the sacking of Danny could be at the heart of this, he was the Captain after all, and Jordon Fox tweeted that he was the best Captain he had 'ever' played for. There were numerous other tweets and lots more private messages I am sure! Surely this is having some impact in the dressing room.
I also know that I don't personally enjoy my job so much if I don't have respect or faith in my manager.
Something is clearly wrong and whilst I would dismiss Tuma & Graham with immediate effect, I have to say the rest of the team, including some of our stars from last year, do look demotivated and flat. Could it be that Corey has gambled and it has not paid off, I really believed that this was going to be the year that we lifted the league...... I would not put money on us finishing fourth at this rate, in our own conference!
Could be another season that promises so much but....... and I don't think a Challenge Cup or Play Off trophy is going to cut it this year.
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Post by kezypanther on Sept 23, 2012 14:27:12 GMT
This is a wierd one for me, yes meyers was the leader and the players looked up to him but I think we have a player upgrade in weaver. So I guess time will tell for me ...
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator 
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Sept 23, 2012 14:40:37 GMT
The problem with this question - along with so many others - is one of linkage.
We have two facts, but only guesswork to link them.
Facts:-
1) The Panthers did not ask Danny Meyers back during the off-season... effectively cutting him from the squad
2) The performances so far this season (the few we've seen) have been less than impressive.
It's assuming that there's any kind of linkage between the two that I have a problem with... there may be a link - there may not. How do we know?
This is, of course, one of the least of the linkage assumptions we see on this forum... the old standby of linking Panthers-not-winning-the-league with Neil-Black-being-tight-with-money possibly being the favourite. An assumption that several people seem to vociferously cling to, despite there not being a shred of evidence. But there you go...
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puckit
Jade Galbraith
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Post by puckit on Sept 23, 2012 14:49:53 GMT
An interesting point. In response to kezypanther yes weaver is an up grade although meyers is a great D man in our league but the thing that he really brings to the plate is his professionalism and at panthers he was often the man that inspired the others IMO.
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Post by dreadface on Sept 23, 2012 14:52:43 GMT
Personally I dont think its been the returning players that have been the problem.
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Post by tessier26 on Sept 23, 2012 14:54:17 GMT
The problem with this question - along with so many others - is one of linkage. We have two facts, but only guesswork to link them. Facts:- 1) The Panthers did not ask Danny Meyers back during the off-season... effectively cutting him from the squad 2) The performances so far this season (the few we've seen) have been less than impressive. It's assuming that there's any kind of linkage between the two that I have a problem with... there may be a link - there may not. How do we know? This is, of course, one of the least of the linkage assumptions we see on this forum... the old standby of linking Panthers-not-winning-the-league with Neil-Black-being-tight-with-money possibly being the favourite. An assumption that several people seem to vociferously cling to, despite there not being a shred of evidence. But there you go... Shaggy, do you seriously think an intelligent and cunning businessman like Neil Black is going to allow any facts/evidence out in the public domain? He's hardly going to do that is he? Secrets are kept in business all the time, you don't want your competitors knowing what makes you successful. I use my intuition, facts give you certainty but you have to use your head and think for yourself and not just go on what your told. Its like Rupert Murdoch's media empire, your told what he wants you to hear. |
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Sept 23, 2012 14:58:38 GMT
The problem with this question - along with so many others - is one of linkage. We have two facts, but only guesswork to link them. Facts:- 1) The Panthers did not ask Danny Meyers back during the off-season... effectively cutting him from the squad 2) The performances so far this season (the few we've seen) have been less than impressive. It's assuming that there's any kind of linkage between the two that I have a problem with... there may be a link - there may not. How do we know? This is, of course, one of the least of the linkage assumptions we see on this forum... the old standby of linking Panthers-not-winning-the-league with Neil-Black-being-tight-with-money possibly being the favourite. An assumption that several people seem to vociferously cling to, despite there not being a shred of evidence. But there you go... Shaggy, do you seriously think an intelligent and cunning businessman like Neil Black is going to allow any facts/evidence out in the public domain? He's hardly going to do that is he? Secrets are kept in business all the time, you don't want your competitors knowing what makes you successful. I use my intuition, facts give you certainty but you have to use your head and think for yourself and not just go on what your told. Its like Rupert Murdoch's media empire, your told what he wants you to hear. And your point is...? I don't believe everything I'm told... as far as I'm concerned, club PR (be it the Panthers or anyone else) is a marketing tool and little more. My point still stands... there is nothing but suspicion and guesswork to 'prove' any linkage between the various facts and beliefs that keep getting linked on here. |
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Post by pingchowchi on Sept 23, 2012 15:15:02 GMT
Maybe the poor form is due to the lack of cheerleaders? They seem to coincide with each other!
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Post by davidspence on Sept 23, 2012 15:52:51 GMT
Facts:- 1) The Panthers did not ask Danny Meyers back during the off-season... effectively cutting him from the squad it isnt necessarily as clear cut as that though Shaggy. Danny himself or his agent could have recieved an offer or made requests for salary and perks (quite good perks if rumours are true) to steelers which panthers may have thought were too expensive to match leading them to decline making him an offer on his 2nd year option (that option is not a guaranteed contract as many may think) as often in these cases there are only a priveleged few that actual do know... danny/corey for 2 and the rest of it is always subject to interpretation. |
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Post by texpef on Sept 23, 2012 15:57:01 GMT
This is, of course, one of the least of the linkage assumptions we see on this forum... the old standby of linking Panthers-not-winning-the-league with Neil-Black-being-tight-with-money possibly being the favourite. An assumption that several people seem to vociferously cling to, despite there not being a shred of evidence. But there you go... Cant speak for now i can only judge on the quality of players signed against those of our opposition and imho opinion ours havent stacked up that well against our major competitors. As for NB spending money i heard a VERY strong rumour when we were in the old barn from several VERY reliable in the know contacts at the time that NB spent alot of money on the team that had brebant and it lead to an increase in 50 ticket sales per week which did not cover the outlay and it was one of the reasons that we lost blaiser in that he couldnt bring in the team he wanted. Given the quality of teams that followed blaisers departure it is one rumour that i could very well believe.. Also lets not forget panthers were a money making organisation when it was the ISL era ie a team loaded with in some cases very good canadian imports... |
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Post by PantherG on Sept 23, 2012 16:32:34 GMT
Facts:- 1) The Panthers did not ask Danny Meyers back during the off-season... effectively cutting him from the squad it isnt necessarily as clear cut as that though Shaggy. Danny himself or his agent could have recieved an offer or made requests for salary and perks (quite good perks if rumours are true) to steelers which panthers may have thought were too expensive to match leading them to decline making him an offer on his 2nd year option (that option is not a guaranteed contract as many may think) as often in these cases there are only a priveleged few that actual do know... danny/corey for 2 and the rest of it is always subject to interpretation. From all the interviews with Danny it is clear he was called in and told by Corey that his services were no longer required. He was then asked/told to say nothing for a couple of days until the Panthers announced it. He is open about how upsetting this was for him and his family and took time to decide what to do. He was approached by other teams and stated that he did not look to improve the package that he was getting whilst playing for Nottingham. From reading between the lines it appears there was a personality clash between him and Corey although that is my interpretation, it is probably unlikely to come out until Corey has left Nottingham, which at this rate will be PDQ. Corey should be expected to deliver the league title this year, anything less is a failure, in my opinion, and surely would leave to his dismissal as player/coach. I could not see the fans accepting him back for another season if we failed, and as it stands we are failing miserably. Of course nothing would make me happier to see this turned around, but I just can't see it. |
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
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Post by Mark on Sept 23, 2012 16:50:57 GMT
Just because Danny Meyers said this and that doesn't mean he wasn't being economical with the truth.
The only real truth is we don't really know the truth.
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Post by cooperphil156 on Sept 23, 2012 16:58:24 GMT
I understand that the release of Danny opened up other options within the budget. Where it appears to me Danny is missed is in the PR area. CN does not look at ease in this area, while GM seems to be not everyones cup of tea. With regard to on ice and in the locker room, Jordan Fox seems to be perhaps a really good choice as leader.
Trying to link the departure of Danny and the performance which is disjointed I dont think fits. Ironically the management could be faced with an additional cost hiring an extra defender if that area does not pick up, which could of course lead to departures to keep within budget.
Another twist to the defensive conunderam is whether CN will stay on ice or move behind the bench, where it is felt that he could direct operations more effectively.
Danny was obviously upset at what happened, but on the other hand CN's tenure cannot be taken for granted. If he felt that it was the best action but had not done what he felt was needed, it could have been his job on the line. Of course at present some would say that he is on borrowed time anyway.
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Post by davidspence on Sept 23, 2012 17:17:54 GMT
it isnt necessarily as clear cut as that though Shaggy. Danny himself or his agent could have recieved an offer or made requests for salary and perks (quite good perks if rumours are true) to steelers which panthers may have thought were too expensive to match leading them to decline making him an offer on his 2nd year option (that option is not a guaranteed contract as many may think) as often in these cases there are only a priveleged few that actual do know... danny/corey for 2 and the rest of it is always subject to interpretation. From all the interviews with Danny it is clear he was called in and told by Corey that his services were no longer required. He was then asked/told to say nothing for a couple of days until the Panthers announced it. He is open about how upsetting this was for him and his family and took time to decide what to do. He was approached by other teams and stated that he did not look to improve the package that he was getting whilst playing for Nottingham. From reading between the lines it appears there was a personality clash between him and Corey although that is my interpretation, it is probably unlikely to come out until Corey has left Nottingham, which at this rate will be PDQ. Corey should be expected to deliver the league title this year, anything less is a failure, in my opinion, and surely would leave to his dismissal as player/coach. I could not see the fans accepting him back for another season if we failed, and as it stands we are failing miserably. Of course nothing would make me happier to see this turned around, but I just can't see it. i'm sorry leo but if you honestly believe that he wasnt actively looking for a better financial package for himself and his family then you sir are very naive, all sports people look for the best available deal for themselves included danny meyers included its the nature of the business they are in. |
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Post by richard1969 on Sept 23, 2012 18:17:37 GMT
I don't mind any player leaving
But this squad is poorest I have seen in may few years watching us and the dullest
And I don't believe they will change - they are just a bad bunch
I don't think corey will turn this round
Its almost ok losing to giants and steelers but wait til we start losing to the likes of coventry, fife, cardiff etc
This squad would struggle to win the weaker conference let alone this league
Need 3 or 4 serious changes asap but it won't happen til we lose two or three more matches and league challenge will be almost over by october effectively
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 18:50:42 GMT
Yes, he has.
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abi
Jim Keyes
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Post by abi on Sept 24, 2012 14:16:03 GMT
Harking back to 2006-7 with the Vipers, fresh off a playoff win, struggling for some form. Brantt Myhres' signing absolutely bombed, people weren't living up to form and Rob Wilson was starting to look like he needed a zimmer frame. Part way during the season Matt Beveridge, a Vipers stalwart who was effectively a geordie in all but accent, was cut from the squad and replaced with Rod Hinks - an upgrade talent wise, but something instantly went missing and became disjointed. There seemed to be very little pride left in the team.
We all though that it was more noticeable because it was mid-season, but it sounds like the same thing has happened at the Panthers.
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