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Post by Peacock on Sept 18, 2012 10:22:56 GMT
Millionaires v Billionaires.
They no longer care, so why should I?
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lee
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Post by lee on Sept 18, 2012 15:58:24 GMT
According to SSN the lockout is now official after the deadline passed with no new agreement in place. That's our trip to Boston and Washington off now :-( yeah, we had New York plans which are now in tatters, not going if there is no Game to see.
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shinobi
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Post by shinobi on Sept 18, 2012 19:19:21 GMT
Millionaires v Billionaires. They no longer care, so why should I? You should of seen the flak Brent Sopel took on twitter lol.
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Post by pantherdman on Sept 20, 2012 12:22:46 GMT
Betmans still getting his $8mill a season even if it's locked out....top bloke!
Apparently if he gets his way he'll earn more per season than crosby!!! Joke League!
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Sept 20, 2012 12:33:58 GMT
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Post by timay on Sept 21, 2012 23:42:01 GMT
Its not like he will lose $8mil though, as he will just say that the Lockout last from October to April so will probably still be payed $4mil from now to October 2013. So not exactly as good of a gesture as it might first appear.
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Post by james1977 on Sept 26, 2012 11:42:28 GMT
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Sept 26, 2012 12:36:59 GMT
I've a feeling this lockout is going to drag on. Ditto. The difference between this lockout and the last one is that both sides are 'standing firm' on their 'principles'. This isn't completely a battle about money... it's a battle about control as well, and it doesn't look like either side is willing to back down. Last time the players weren't all that organised or with strong-willed/aggressive leadership... this time they are. On the players' side, they gave the owners what they wanted last time, with the promise that it would change things for the better. Now the owners are saying it didn't, and they want more back. So the players are bound to be thinking - if we give in again, what's to stop them doing this yet again next time? So that will surely make them less prepared to back down. And on the owners' side, they won the battle last time and firmly believe that they have the upper hand - why should they back down? Plus (and this is my opinion only)... both sides are equally at fault and they know it (whatever they may say in public). And whoever wants to admit that they're at fault? So it's got to be the other lot to blame... Settling the money issues would be hard enough - but they're going to have to settle the 'principle' issues before they even get down to properly thrashing out the facts & figures. And that's always a lot harder to do. This could run and run.
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Post by james1977 on Sept 26, 2012 14:58:42 GMT
'Don Cherry' gives you his opinion on the lockout.
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Post by Nemesis on Sept 26, 2012 15:36:24 GMT
This lock out wont last IMO. There is one VERY big difference this time around. I can't say much without betraying a trust but the TV companies are holding the winning hand. It is within their power owing to the details of the deal signed for them to insist the league starts to play. This was not in effect last time owing to no national TV deal being in place.
There are talks to be announced next week.
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Post by james1977 on Sept 26, 2012 16:34:07 GMT
This lock out wont last IMO. There is one VERY big difference this time around. I can't say much without betraying a trust but the TV companies are holding the winning hand. It is within their power owing to the details of the deal signed for them to insist the league starts to play. This was not in effect last time owing to no national TV deal being in place. There are talks to be announced next week. You aren't betaying trust, comments relating to the TV deal (I'm assuming you mean the NBC one) and them having contractual powers to 'insist' the NHL starts playing are all over various internet forums/news sources and were actually well known before the lockout began. The point that is skimmed over by many though is that the TV deals are with the NHL, not the NHLPA/players. If the TV companies 'insist' on the NHL starting the season then the NHL will have to end the lockout and the only way they can do that is by ceding to the NHLPA demands. Of course if the NHL is under pressure from the TV companies to end the lockout then that hands even more negotiating power to the NHLPA, who may seize the such an opportunity to ask for even more. The NHL can't afford to hand that sort of power to the NHLPA and NBC understand this so have rightly kept out of the game. Once again, the TV companies only have a 'winning hand' over the NHL, not the NHLPA. If they call the NHL on it then it could lead down a slippery path where no one emerges as 'winner'. And yes, talks have already been announced between the NHL and NHLPA, they start this Friday. Unfortunately the core issues ($1bn worth of core issues) are not expected to be discussed, indeed it is expected that neither the NHL nor NHLPA will have a new offer to put on the table. Rather they are meeting to talk about the smaller, periphery issues, such as pensions etc. Don't get me wrong, as an NHL fan first and foremost and with tickets for the Winter Classic already arranged I want the season to start as soon as possible but I really don't think that NBC pulling out its trump card will do anything but damage the process and nor do I think that, with Bettman enjoying such support from team owners and Fehr being the firebrand he is and also well supported by the players, this battle of wills will end quickly.
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Post by timay on Sept 26, 2012 23:07:27 GMT
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shinobi
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Post by shinobi on Sept 27, 2012 22:15:46 GMT
Billionaire owners V millionaire players; yawn.
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Post by harlan on Oct 16, 2012 19:42:17 GMT
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Post by shirtless on Oct 16, 2012 19:51:34 GMT
looks to me they will big fat yeay the deal no one wants to starve do they and there is so much more to it than just hockey players they will look like the bad guys now if they do not yes this thing and get on with it after all we are in a recession you know what i mean.
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shinobi
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Post by shinobi on Oct 16, 2012 20:21:55 GMT
Press conference tonight...
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 16, 2012 21:13:49 GMT
Still no clue as to how all of this is going to play out... by coming out with yet another proposal without waiting for the NHLPA to come back with a response from their last proposal, the league might start to look a little less like the bad guys - not that either side really cares what the fans think, despite what they claim. This could possibly be aimed at causing a split in the NHLPA, try to get the less hardline players to demand that the union accepts the deal - anything to get back on the ice.
On the other hand, this could be like blood in the water to a shark... the league showing weakness and only encouraging the NHLPA to dig their heels in even more. The language coming from the league certainly sounds a bit more desperate.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 16, 2012 21:24:01 GMT
Not seen any news of a press conference, but the PA HAVE to accept this, or at least something very similar to it. It's a shrewd move by the owners. This is basically calling their bluff and if the PA do turn it down, the people are against them.
Let's face it. There's no rollbacks, a fair share of revenue and little change to escrow. They win with this deal. Take it and let's drop the puck on Nov 2nd!
To say i'm getting excited right now is an understatement. I'd written this season off.
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Post by timay on Oct 16, 2012 21:42:47 GMT
Still no clue as to how all of this is going to play out... by coming out with yet another proposal without waiting for the NHLPA to come back with a response from their last proposal, the league might start to look a little less like the bad guys - not that either side really cares what the fans think, despite what they claim. This could possibly be aimed at causing a split in the NHLPA, try to get the less hardline players to demand that the union accepts the deal - anything to get back on the ice. On the other hand, this could be like blood in the water to a shark... the league showing weakness and only encouraging the NHLPA to dig their heels in even more. The language coming from the league certainly sounds a bit more desperate. This is just the NHL trying to make themselves look like the good guys, which is the main reason Bettman is not willing to discuss anything else other than one single part of the CBA (HRR) to anyone. Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) might be one of the biggest parts being discussed in the meetings but it is also one of the simplest to resolve. It is all the other seemingly little things that will take longer to work out a deal on. I will be very surprised if the offer that NHL has submitted today (16/10) to the NHLPA will be accepted and even more surprised if the NHL restarts on November 2nd. You have to remember the NHLPA were willing to play under the expired CBA while a deal was worked out, it is the NHL that wanted the cloud of the lockout to negotiate under. While they might of offered a seemingly fairer HRR spilt you can almost say for certain because of the NHL silence on the matter that they would of left in some totally unacceptable terms and conditions and other parts of the CBA that just will not be acceptable to the NHLPA. You have to remember that the NHLPA have come from a 57% deal with the HRR and are not being offered 50%, I think the NHLPA wanted a 54% share. So under the current offer the NHLPA would have lost 7% which considering the $3.3b in revenues a 7% drop is a fairly substanial swing.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 16, 2012 21:54:37 GMT
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see it all start very soon. The last negotiations should be on a minor scale, hammer that out over the weekend and this point next week should see training camps open.
The NFL, NBA and MLB all have something close to 50% share I believe, whether the PA wanted 54% or not (and that's probably posturing on their behalf) it's fair to share.
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Post by timay on Oct 16, 2012 22:40:22 GMT
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see it all start very soon. The last negotiations should be on a minor scale, hammer that out over the weekend and this point next week should see training camps open. The NFL, NBA and MLB all have something close to 50% share I believe, whether the PA wanted 54% or not (and that's probably posturing on their behalf) it's fair to share. I hope your right and the NHL comes back ASAP with a full schedule + Winter Classic etc. I'm just not sure I seeing happening that easily.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 17, 2012 0:06:25 GMT
The biggest thing that needed to happen was one side swallowing their pride and taking the first step. The owners have done that, the PA need to follow suit.
I'm never confident when it comes to Fehr though. Fehr is not always fair.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 17, 2012 12:52:59 GMT
Still no clue as to how all of this is going to play out... by coming out with yet another proposal without waiting for the NHLPA to come back with a response from their last proposal, the league might start to look a little less like the bad guys - not that either side really cares what the fans think, despite what they claim. This could possibly be aimed at causing a split in the NHLPA, try to get the less hardline players to demand that the union accepts the deal - anything to get back on the ice. On the other hand, this could be like blood in the water to a shark... the league showing weakness and only encouraging the NHLPA to dig their heels in even more. The language coming from the league certainly sounds a bit more desperate. This is just the NHL trying to make themselves look like the good guys, which is the main reason Bettman is not willing to discuss anything else other than one single part of the CBA (HRR) to anyone. Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) might be one of the biggest parts being discussed in the meetings but it is also one of the simplest to resolve. It is all the other seemingly little things that will take longer to work out a deal on. I will be very surprised if the offer that NHL has submitted today (16/10) to the NHLPA will be accepted and even more surprised if the NHL restarts on November 2nd. You have to remember the NHLPA were willing to play under the expired CBA while a deal was worked out, it is the NHL that wanted the cloud of the lockout to negotiate under. While they might of offered a seemingly fairer HRR spilt you can almost say for certain because of the NHL silence on the matter that they would of left in some totally unacceptable terms and conditions and other parts of the CBA that just will not be acceptable to the NHLPA. You have to remember that the NHLPA have come from a 57% deal with the HRR and are not being offered 50%, I think the NHLPA wanted a 54% share. So under the current offer the NHLPA would have lost 7% which considering the $3.3b in revenues a 7% drop is a fairly substanial swing. Lies, damned lies and statistics. Which is most accurate and/or relevant? $3.3bn increase in revenue - or 18 teams losing money last season? Look only at the first and you think that the owners are all rolling in it... look at the second and you think they're not. There's a lot more to it all than the headline figures. Personally, I hold both sides almost equally culpable for this whole mess... although the longer this goes on and the more details come out, the less sympathy I have for the players. What other industry do the employees get 57% of revenue? Even 50/50 is a bit crazy! Then there's all of the little rollbacks etc... only a few weeks ago it became known through reporting of the negotiations that the players get all of their massive salaries AND then get reimbursed for rent/mortgage payments as well! Talk about your cushy numbers...
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Post by Nemesis on Oct 17, 2012 15:05:35 GMT
Still no clue as to how all of this is going to play out... by coming out with yet another proposal without waiting for the NHLPA to come back with a response from their last proposal, the league might start to look a little less like the bad guys - not that either side really cares what the fans think, despite what they claim. This could possibly be aimed at causing a split in the NHLPA, try to get the less hardline players to demand that the union accepts the deal - anything to get back on the ice. On the other hand, this could be like blood in the water to a shark... the league showing weakness and only encouraging the NHLPA to dig their heels in even more. The language coming from the league certainly sounds a bit more desperate. This is just the NHL trying to make themselves look like the good guys, which is the main reason Bettman is not willing to discuss anything else other than one single part of the CBA (HRR) to anyone. Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) might be one of the biggest parts being discussed in the meetings but it is also one of the simplest to resolve. It is all the other seemingly little things that will take longer to work out a deal on. I will be very surprised if the offer that NHL has submitted today (16/10) to the NHLPA will be accepted and even more surprised if the NHL restarts on November 2nd. You have to remember the NHLPA were willing to play under the expired CBA while a deal was worked out, it is the NHL that wanted the cloud of the lockout to negotiate under. While they might of offered a seemingly fairer HRR spilt you can almost say for certain because of the NHL silence on the matter that they would of left in some totally unacceptable terms and conditions and other parts of the CBA that just will not be acceptable to the NHLPA. You have to remember that the NHLPA have come from a 57% deal with the HRR and are not being offered 50%, I think the NHLPA wanted a 54% share. So under the current offer the NHLPA would have lost 7% which considering the $3.3b in revenues a 7% drop is a fairly substanial swing. Except the entire deal, and detailed, in layman's terms, reasoning, for every stipulation has been on the web since yesterday..... ;-) This will IMO be accepted. Not to do so would swing the tide of anger wholly at the union given that every single minute detail of the offer is now public.
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Post by robbo2306 on Oct 18, 2012 8:17:09 GMT
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