dp
Jim Keyes
Posts: 966 
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Post by dp on Mar 27, 2011 18:23:06 GMT
After yet another boring, passionless, non-contact season, last night reminded me why I love the game.
As a serious question, what's the real reason why there's such a distinction between play off hockey and regular season? Why do the refs call it so differently as well?
Is it because of the short benches? Is it because the players' bodies just can't cope with a full season of it? Is it because the league/refs just don't want the game getting out of control?
It was so nice to see the players decide the outcome rather than the refs. I'd love to see the final league standings if every game was called like that and decided by the players rather than play-acting and whining. The players seemed to prefer it too.
If every game was called and played like that, I think hockey would have a very serious chance of taking off in this country.
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Post by gcmandrake on Mar 27, 2011 18:39:20 GMT
Last night was an example of everything I want in officiating - unobtrusive, letting the game flow and only calling when necessary. That said, by all accounts the leg in Braehead was terribly officiated, so good officiating isn't exclusive to play-off games.
Generally I find the Playoff Quarter Finals to be the best games - teams know that if they don't play, their season is over. Semi-finals and the finals all seem a little cagey, with neither team willing to take risks.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 27, 2011 20:11:00 GMT
Yes that was the best advert you could have for making the league season shorter and the play offs longer.
A five or seven game playoff series will never happen though whilst ever you have teams who can't afford to book an arena for a game five, six or seven that may not need to be played.
If we have to keep the present league format,then the playoff quarter finals should at least be the best of three games though and not aggregate score over two legs.
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Jay
Ashley Tait
Posts: 1,933
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Post by Jay on Mar 27, 2011 20:49:27 GMT
Wish i knew, only thing i can think of is that alot of the north american and canadian players think the playoffs are more important as thats what they're used to back home so they might be in that mindset...but then again..they should play like that all the time anyway so i dont know.
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Post by heja on Mar 27, 2011 23:25:13 GMT
After yet another boring, passionless, non-contact season, last night reminded me why I love the game. As a serious question, what's the real reason why there's such a distinction between play off hockey and regular season? Why do the refs call it so differently as well? Is it because of the short benches? Is it because the players' bodies just can't cope with a full season of it? Is it because the league/refs just don't want the game getting out of control? It was so nice to see the players decide the outcome rather than the refs. I'd love to see the final league standings if every game was called like that and decided by the players rather than play-acting and whining. The players seemed to prefer it too. If every game was called and played like that, I think hockey would have a very serious chance of taking off in this country. Mostly down too the short benches Hitting and being hit takes alot out of the players energy wise and with only having 11 imports you do not have the energy to be able to hit every night for 56 games. Also with the Brits being so lightweight they tend just not to be big or strong enough to be able to hit anyone with out coming off worse. The last two games hitting wise for the most part reminded me off the ISL days in which we had 18-19 imports on each roster who were big and strong enough plus had enough chance for a rest after each shift to be able to take the punishment that playing that style presents. The Elite League should just go back to the way Hanson decided to ref the game on Saturday, makes the game much more fun to watch and I believe that players should not just be allowed to skate through the zone with out getting a couple of wacks and tugs for there troubles, which in turn makes it a much more physical game to watch. Zero Tolerance has made the game a much less Physical but a much more dangerous game IMO. As before when you were going to hit someone you would would be slowed up by the oppositions players before hitting them, but now days players when they do hit are hitting people at full speed causing more injuries in the process. It also does not help that Zero Tolerance has brought about the teaching that if you turn your back on a player you are untouchable which is not bad as an individual thought, but players are turning there backs on players just as they are about to be hit and wondering why they are getting there heads drilled into the boards. Whereas before ZT you would be prepared to take a hit most of the time and not looking to put your self in a position that is dangerous yet according to the rules makes you immune to being hit, which is never going to be 100% at the the speed hockey is played at. |
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator 
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Mar 28, 2011 7:34:56 GMT
Two major points of disagreement there, heja...
Firstly, it's utter rubbish that "with the Brits being so lightweight they tend just not to be big or strong enough to be able to hit anyone with out coming off worse".
Perhaps you would care to discuss that personally with the likes of Matt Myers and Stevie Lee? Both of whom are quite happy to hit imports and then go hunting for more. And that's just on our team... there are a fair few others elsewhere as well - Phil Hill at Cardiff, for example.
Secondly - Zero Tolerance (or the pale imitation of it we have in British officiating) is not at fault for injuries - that's down to player decision-making. Are you honestly saying that you'd prefer to go back to the near unlimited clutch-and-grab stuff? Where some untalented brain-the-size-of-a-pea goon can interfere with your scoring players and get away with it? Sure, you might get some more spontaneous fights breaking out, which I know would please some people - but kiss goodbye to a lot of the speed and skill work.
It's perfectly possible to have a fast, really hard-hitting game and stay completely within the rules... have check after check after check - and still remain legal. Granted, the poor officiating doesn't help at times, but the main obstacle to that is players being lazy, stupid or just plain dirty. All of which is down to them - not the rules.
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Post by heja on Mar 28, 2011 8:32:30 GMT
Two major points of disagreement there, heja... Firstly, it's utter rubbish that "with the Brits being so lightweight they tend just not to be big or strong enough to be able to hit anyone with out coming off worse". Perhaps you would care to discuss that personally with the likes of Matt Myers and Stevie Lee? Both of whom are quite happy to hit imports and then go hunting for more. And that's just on our team... there are a fair few others elsewhere as well - Phil Hill at Cardiff, for example. Secondly - Zero Tolerance (or the pale imitation of it we have in British officiating) is not at fault for injuries - that's down to player decision-making. Are you honestly saying that you'd prefer to go back to the near unlimited clutch-and-grab stuff? Where some untalented brain-the-size-of-a-pea goon can interfere with your scoring players and get away with it? Sure, you might get some more spontaneous fights breaking out, which I know would please some people - but kiss goodbye to a lot of the speed and skill work. It's perfectly possible to have a fast, really hard-hitting game and stay completely within the rules... have check after check after check - and still remain legal. Granted, the poor officiating doesn't help at times, but the main obstacle to that is players being lazy, stupid or just plain dirty. All of which is down to them - not the rules. How many more brits can you name? Hewitt in Sheffield Hill in Cardiff Myers and Lee in Nottingham No one in Belfast You can maybe count 10 brits in the league that can hit and are willing hit all the time. I think you should be allowed to skate through the neutral zone un impeded once you get into the offencive zone you should have to work hard for your goals and if your willing to stand in front of the net you should know you have been there. I don't find it fun watching players skate in circles around the offencive zone because players are not allowed to touch them. I also don't like watching players being taught to put themselves in vunerable positions because the rules say that they are untouchable if they do certain things. So as I say total ZT through the Neutral Zone and then pretty much maximum tollerance in both end zone unless you deny a clear goal scoring oppertunity, So almost as Hanson reffed it on Saturday. There is less skill to play hockey now than there was 6+ years ago when to play the game well and to score goals you had to work you socks off in and around the front of the net to get any reward. I sure the NHL would agree that it has caused more injuries, they would never admit it because they do not want to say they are wrong about ZT, but that is the main reason they are having to change the rules about hitting every year since ZT was introduced. Such as before ZT if someone was up against the boards, you could bearhug them into the boards so you take them gently into the boards instead of now when you see alot more hits from behind when players turn there backs on you and if you bearhug them you get a penalty for holding or you get a penalty for hitting from behind, or you do nothing and just let them do want they want. Although that example is one that GM's and TV people are wanting changed so that you can bearhug them or guide them into the boards from behind just as long as you let them go afterwards. |
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
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Post by Rich on Mar 28, 2011 8:53:02 GMT
Spot on Heja. Referees ruin games, as a player as a coach and as a fan! Playoff hockey all year round ftw!
One thing to bear in mind... penalties are never going to be enough to police a game of full checking ice hockey. Its an extreme but everyone remembers Payette ending Ahlroos's career right? Can you remember the powerplay we had? Does the PP we probably screwed up on anyway really count for "punishment"? Players will not accept justice has been done unless theyve had a say in it. Banning a guy for 5/6 games when your likely not to play against them anyway isnt enough.
Playoffs prove the game is a lot more honest when played with a nasty streak and not ran by fussy refereeing, players know they will be held accountable (ask Landry if fancies going OTT in the corner again after Bellamy jumped in). The 2 min boarding penalty he got wouldnt have made the slightest bit of difference.
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Post by robbo2306 on Mar 28, 2011 10:50:28 GMT
The game was far quicker and the hits were harder in the ISL days and there was no ZT then.
I agree with Heja, the benches are just too small now to play that style of game throughout a season. Too many of the Brits are lightweight in the hitting dept, sure there are some that can hit like trains but you can count them on one hand.
The Manchester Storm team under Cuddly Kurt were a fine example of how quick, exciting and skillful hockey could survive without the rubbish that is ZT.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Mar 28, 2011 14:01:38 GMT
I couldn't agree with your more Heja!! If the games were reffed like that all season the games would be considerably more enjoyable.
Oh come on Shaggy, surely even you can't defend the Brits in the checking department. For every Stevie Lee there's four Danny Meyers.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 28, 2011 19:25:33 GMT
I can think of a lightweight brit who isnt afraid to hit or get hit...........Mark Levers.
You don't have to be huge to hit hard,Levers isn't and neither is Stevie Lee, its all down to timing the hit right and having the courage to do it.
You don't very often see Johnathan Weaver throw a big hit but we would probably all love him to play for Panthers.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Mar 28, 2011 20:31:20 GMT
I can think of a lightweight brit who isnt afraid to hit or get hit...........Mark Levers. You don't have to be huge to hit hard,Levers isn't and neither is Stevie Lee, its all down to timing the hit right and having the courage to do it. You don't very often see Johnathan Weaver throw a big hit but we would probably all love him to play for Panthers. What's your point? Again Marc Levers is an exception and certainly far from the rule. And Stevie Lee is 6' and 200lbs, hardly leightweight and shockingly one of the biggest Brits in the EIHL. |
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Mar 28, 2011 22:00:25 GMT
Oh come on Shaggy, surely even you can't defend the Brits in the checking department. For every Stevie Lee there's four Danny Meyers. And for every Rob Bellamy, there's a David Beauregard or Billy Ryan.... for every Gui Lepine there's an Angel Nikolov. All good players - but some hit, some don't. Brit or import, that's always been the case. |
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by doug on Mar 29, 2011 8:52:31 GMT
Must agree with Shaggy. The British players throw more hits than imports pro-rata. Thomas and Dowd both "indulge" as well as Hewitt and none of them are big lads. When Ryan Lake played for us he hit like a train and was about 10 stone wet through!
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Post by robbo2306 on Mar 29, 2011 10:04:58 GMT
Must agree with Shaggy. The British players throw more hits than imports pro-rata. Thomas and Dowd both "indulge" as well as Hewitt and none of them are big lads. When Ryan Lake played for us he hit like a train and was about 10 stone wet through! True, but then he just bounced straight off again!!! |
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Mar 29, 2011 11:07:06 GMT
Oh come on, lets not get carried away... Scott Stevens hit like a train, in the modern game Bellamy and Lepine are close to hitting like trains, Ryan Lake didnt/doesnt!!! He doesnt mind finishing his hits and has speed to carry them out on the forecheck but lets not lose ourselves!!
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