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Post by howeaboutthat on Sept 21, 2009 19:55:17 GMT
How a tie-in with the most famous and well-supported professional sporting club in the city would somehow cheapen the Panthers. I'm not a Forest fan and neither I suspect are many other Panthers fans. In fact I know of quite a few Panthers fans who (gulp) come from Derby. They support Panthers because they see them as the East Midlands hockey team (much as some Brummies support Cov, Yorkshiremen support Shuff etc). By allying themselves with Forest not only would they cheapen the 'brand' (tieing in with a team from an unconnected sport is hardly the action of a team trying to show they want to be taken seriously in their ow right) but they'd also possibly lose some non-Forest fans of Panthers purely by association. Plus I'm predominatly a hockey fan, wtf has soccer got to do with it?
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Post by howeaboutthat on Sept 21, 2009 20:05:05 GMT
Pantherinmanc - I'm all for getting other Nottinghsm (and beyond) residents into the NIC to get a taste of Panthers and hockey, no matter what other sport they follow but not on the back of some daft tie-in with 'their' football/rugby/tennis or whatever club but purely on the back of coming to see another sport. `Bring a mate' nights etc are a great idea and should be something Panthers management look into. Discount vouchers in the NEP, a tie-in with a club sponsor such as the Cornerhouse etc but not a tie-in with a sports club.
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Sept 21, 2009 20:25:01 GMT
How a tie-in with the most famous and well-supported professional sporting club in the city would somehow cheapen the Panthers. I'm not a Forest fan and neither I suspect are many other Panthers fans. In fact I know of quite a few Panthers fans who (gulp) come from Derby. They support Panthers because they see them as the East Midlands hockey team I think you would be surprised how many Panthers fans actually follow Forest as well. As for those coming from Derby, they are coming to see a sport that has not been given an opportunity over there. (And some may have lost faith with their football team as well) As for County, well lets just say they are the only team in the East Midlands under investigation by the FA at the moment with regard to financial irregularities.
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Post by howeaboutthat on Sept 21, 2009 20:42:43 GMT
I'm not denying there are many Panthers fans who are also Forest fans (my wife being one) but what has that got to do with anything? Ice hockey is not scoccer and as I've already said, any attempt by Panthers to tie-in with Forest would not only undermine all the work over the years the Panthers and their fans have done to get respect in their own right but it'd also no doubt be unpopular with those who have little interest in a scoccer team that had a bit of a run in the late 70`s and early 80`s or who have no real interest in scoccer at all.
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Post by ted logan on Sept 21, 2009 21:04:59 GMT
Can't believe this thread is still going!! It's a wind-up. It will never happen, Forest can't agree with the City Council abd the County Council on where to build their proposed new stadium.
As stated earlier, Trent FM do a 'Spot The Deliberate Mistake' feature between 8-9 on the Twiggy and Emma show. The report about the Forest-Panthers ground share was todays deliberate mistake. Would have thought it was obvious but 2 pages of debate says otherwise.
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Post by howeaboutthat on Sept 21, 2009 21:16:11 GMT
tedlogan - If you read into the thread that was pointed out some time ago. The direction of the thread changed to "should the Panthers hook-up with Forest" or words to that effect and the debate since has been about that. Do keep up at the back.
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Post by ted logan on Sept 21, 2009 21:24:41 GMT
tedlogan - If you read into the thread that was pointed out some time ago. The direction of the thread changed to "should the Panthers hook-up with Forest" or words to that effect and the debate since has been about that. Do keep up at the back. I know, its a very pointless thread though as it will never happen. It's a ridiculous debate which was all started by a wind-up on local radio. Oh and you are right i read the thread and it was pointed out "some time ago" as I made that post "if you read" it. Do try and keep up with us at the back
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Post by howeaboutthat on Sept 21, 2009 21:51:31 GMT
So although you already made the point you made it again, even though as you said you've noticed, the conversation moved on? What a strange chap! I agree it'd never happen btw, I think the debate though is around what possible justification could be brought to bear to consider a tie-in rather than arguing as if a decision has been made. Sometimes folk like to just chat, it doesn't need an end result.
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Post by ted logan on Sept 22, 2009 9:00:43 GMT
So although you already made the point you made it again, even though as you said you've noticed, the conversation moved on? What a strange chap! I agree it'd never happen btw, I think the debate though is around what possible justification could be brought to bear to consider a tie-in rather than arguing as if a decision has been made. Sometimes folk like to just chat, it doesn't need an end result. I think we are making seperate points here. I was merely re-iterating the earlier point i'd made to put peoples minds at rest thats all Apologies for trying to help or being a "strange chap" as you put it Last weeks deliberate mistake on the same show was to say that the Forest manager was Billy Piper!! I don't think the NFFC fans forum had a debate on the merits of Miss Piper as the next Forest boss!! Oh hang......they did appoint David Platt....
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Post by Rich on Sept 22, 2009 11:37:18 GMT
Because a lot of the panthers fans have no allegiance to Forest, I believe Alf would object amongst others, personally if we were to do this, I would tie up with County they are a richer club! County are a circus. I genuinely fear for them. The media have created the circus, county have got a solid medium term plan based on a lot of investment from a very rich group of people. Meanwhile your team have got a ground built on land worth more than the club. Fear for your own team. Winning a couple of cups before I was born only gets you so far... Cant see any truth in the original post, but maybe a rink could be incorporated in some way. I dont think its any secret the NIC is bursting at the seams with demand for icetime and public skating.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Sept 22, 2009 15:21:30 GMT
I can only echo Jono's comments. I have never seen Notts as a rival, I have no axe to bear and would love to see them take strides and compete at a higher level but right now the club is starting to resemble a bit of a joke amongst football fans up and down the country. Regarding the comment about the two cups - indeed they were won before I was born also, but I can honestly say that in the 21 years i've been going to Forest I have seen some outstanding achievements and a lot to be proud of, I would not change who I support for the world. In that same period i've seen County's already small fanbase diminish and the club be run into the ground, something I dearly hope can be reversed - which now seems as if it might be possible. Sadly, with the kind of bitter comments like that being banded about, it seems that a lot (I say a lot, I recognise it's not all) of the fans of the 'pies are more pre-occupied with the faint sniff of being able to compete with their neighbours than to actually remain focused on achieving their own goals. A rivalry within the city would be good for all concerned, I don't know why so many have to be so bitter about the other club (whether they be Forest or County fans, both are just as guilty) to the point that it's a one or the other argument - we can both exist and it'll benefit both clubs.
Anyway. On topic, ice time is clearly an issue at the NIC, however what is also an issue is the lack of ice time on the arena pad due to non-ice based activity. Maybe we need 2 additional rinks, not just one, to cope with demand - the most critical thing, for me, is that junior development programmes are able to cope with the number of kids that want to be part of the ice hockey community - they are the future of this sport and that is why so many people watch football in this country and so many watch hockey in Canada - that's the sport they play day in and day out.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 15:25:33 GMT
thats what i can never fathum, this circus which is going a full 360deg right now is getting pretty laughable.
whats this annoying obsession that county fans have had over forest for the last 30 years, the majority of forest fans never see county as rival unlike the other way round, tbh we couldn t care less .
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 22, 2009 15:44:37 GMT
thats what i can never fathum, this circus which is going a full 360deg right now is getting pretty laughable. whats this annoying obsession that county fans have had over forest for the last 30 years, the majority of forest fans never see county as rival unlike the other way round, tbh we couldn t care less . Similar could apply to the relationship between Forest and Liverpool fans from what I've seen on this forum. I also see a lot of arrogance from Forest fans, especially towards County. There's a very real possibility that County will be above Forest before too long. It could even be this time next year. As a fan of neither team (and only a part time football fan in any case), but a resident of Nottingham, I'd be happy to see either or both Forest and County do better.
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Post by oldman on Sept 22, 2009 17:10:48 GMT
thats what i can never fathum, this circus which is going a full 360deg right now is getting pretty laughable. whats this annoying obsession that county fans have had over forest for the last 30 years, the majority of forest fans never see county as rival unlike the other way round, tbh we couldn t care less . Similar could apply to the relationship between Forest and Liverpool fans from what I've seen on this forum. I also see a lot of arrogance from Forest fans, especially towards County. There's a very real possibility that County will be above Forest before too long. It could even be this time next year. As a fan of neither team (and only a part time football fan in any case), but a resident of Nottingham, I'd be happy to see either or both Forest and County do better. Well I was just going to say the same about the apparent Forest obsession with Liverpool! If you have two teams in a city you will get rivalry, and if as happens now in Sheffield they are in the same league that rivalry will be intense! However to get back to the the original phantom topic, why would the panthers join up with any one team when they can pull fans from the whole of the East Midlands instead. They would be narrowing a potential fanbase!
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Post by Rich on Sept 22, 2009 19:57:41 GMT
tbh we couldn t care less . Wrong. YOU mean YOU couldnt care less (or at least thats the message your trying to put across). Lots of Forest fans are more concerned with Meadow Lane than the City Ground at the moment. Take a look on every story the evening post runs online... every notts story has got 10 posts from Forest fans, every single story! On here, no notts fan mentioned us and yet a FOREST fan (who apparently couldnt care less) condemned Notts. I dont mind banter, I dont mind opinions but how can you get everything you say so wrong. After all, if you were speaking about Panthers and claiming you represent all the fans like you have Forest, Id be ashamed to be a panthers fan.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 2:47:35 GMT
tbh we couldn t care less . Wrong. YOU mean YOU couldnt care less (or at least thats the message your trying to put across). Lots of Forest fans are more concerned with Meadow Lane than the City Ground at the moment. Take a look on every story the evening post runs online... every notts story has got 10 posts from Forest fans, every single story! On here, no notts fan mentioned us and yet a FOREST fan (who apparently couldnt care less) condemned Notts. I dont mind banter, I dont mind opinions but how can you get everything you say so wrong. After all, if you were speaking about Panthers and claiming you represent all the fans like you have Forest, Id be ashamed to be a panthers fan. you calling me a liar then for saying its rubbish that we don t give a doo doo about the sadpies, they have and always will be a joke as far as im concerned and not worth the colume inches which the evening post give them , i see Sol is jumping ship ...! p.s. im not bothered and plenty of forest fans will say the same when i say that county won t be challenging to be the citys top club anytime soon!!
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Post by pantherinmanc on Sept 23, 2009 7:41:23 GMT
I can't speak for other fans of Forest, all I can say is that I genuinely don't see any reason to be bitter or worried about Notts, and neither do I see any reason for Notts to feel bitter about Forest, it's all a bit childish, both clubs doing well is good for the city and a city our size can accommodate 2 clubs easily.
Anyway this is the wrong place to be debating footy. Final point to say I really, genuinely, hope that Notts County don't lose their sol, er, sorry, I mean soul.
;-)
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Post by Rich on Sept 23, 2009 7:42:14 GMT
Wrong. YOU mean YOU couldnt care less (or at least thats the message your trying to put across). Lots of Forest fans are more concerned with Meadow Lane than the City Ground at the moment. Take a look on every story the evening post runs online... every notts story has got 10 posts from Forest fans, every single story! On here, no notts fan mentioned us and yet a FOREST fan (who apparently couldnt care less) condemned Notts. I dont mind banter, I dont mind opinions but how can you get everything you say so wrong. After all, if you were speaking about Panthers and claiming you represent all the fans like you have Forest, Id be ashamed to be a panthers fan. you calling me a liar then for saying its rubbish that we don t give a doo doo about the sadpies, they have and always will be a joke as far as im concerned and not worth the colume inches which the evening post give them , i see Sol is jumping ship ...! p.s. im not bothered and plenty of forest fans will say the same when i say that county won t be challenging to be the citys top club anytime soon!! I dont care if you think Notts are a joke. I dont care if Sol is leaving. I dont care if we are going to be the biggest club in the city. But to say Forest fans couldnt care less is very wide of the mark and the only reason Meadow Lane is a circus is because the media make it one. I go every game, no tents have appeared and despite the ref making some comedy decisions every now and then, nothing has overly changed at the ground. As long as Notts can continue to grow and Forest can sustain their current levels of spending for a few years Im happy. I just really dont understand the animosity Forest fans have for Notts all of a sudden, especially when they try and cover it up with "we dont care anyway"!
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Post by pantherinmanc on Sept 23, 2009 8:57:01 GMT
Seems there is only one person who is obsessed with this situation and it's not someone from the Forest camp.
Notts are not, and will not be anytime soon, the biggest club in the city. I don't say that out of my allegience to Forest I say it because it's true. You've been sold a dream but the harsh facts are you are going to clubs like Morecambe and losing. If I were a Notts fan i'd be taking it one step at a time, trying to get into League One and progress from there. Talk of the Premiership is nothing more than a pipe dream - it's a pipe dream for Forest, let alone Notts!
Why the attitude, why the chip on the shoulder about Forest, why the pompous comments about 'we're going to be the biggest club in the city'?. Achieve something, then crow about it, don't harp on about what you 'might' do. Plenty of people level criticsm at us for revelling in our past - but that's in the history books, it's achieved, it's there in black and white. The only thing the 'new Notts' can claim, with any degree of fact, is to be a mid table League 2 side.
Best of luck for the new season, I genuinely hope you do well, but please don't fall into the trap of being yet another fan (which exist on both sides of the trent) who is pre-obsessed with chip on the shoulder attitude, it's just childish.
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Post by Rich on Sept 23, 2009 9:21:03 GMT
Seems there is only one person who is obsessed with this situation and it's not someone from the Forest camp. Notts are not, and will not be anytime soon, the biggest club in the city. I don't say that out of my allegience to Forest I say it because it's true. You've been sold a dream but the harsh facts are you are going to clubs like Morecambe and losing. If I were a Notts fan i'd be taking it one step at a time, trying to get into League One and progress from there. Talk of the Premiership is nothing more than a pipe dream - it's a pipe dream for Forest, let alone Notts! Why the attitude, why the chip on the shoulder about Forest, why the pompous comments about 'we're going to be the biggest club in the city'?. Achieve something, then crow about it, don't harp on about what you 'might' do. Plenty of people level criticsm at us for revelling in our past - but that's in the history books, it's achieved, it's there in black and white. The only thing the 'new Notts' can claim, with any degree of fact, is to be a mid table League 2 side. Best of luck for the new season, I genuinely hope you do well, but please don't fall into the trap of being yet another fan (which exist on both sides of the trent) who is pre-obsessed with chip on the shoulder attitude, it's just childish. All of what you have attacked there is press stories, correct? 99% if notts fans dont look past their next game usually and just want to get a solid base and start winning games. New owners with ambition were always going to come in and start comparing us to Forest and making claims about taking over the city, it gets us media attention and gives the place a buzz. What do you expect to see in the NEP when billionaires take over? "Notts hope to sneak into the playoffs and take it one step at a time"?
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Sept 23, 2009 9:27:43 GMT
I don't have anything against Notts County, but the people that I know who are Notts County fans have been gloating about their takeover, the big money signings, the new stadium, how wealthy the club are, how they will be the big team in Nottingham in a few years time etc etc
Losing Sol Campbell will release a financial millstone around their neck, that regardless of whether the club has a bottomless pit of money or not, was quite a ridiculous deal.
I expect McParland to follow soon, but he harldy pulled up any trees last year, but working with limited funds up until now must have been difficult for him.
Whether any of the clubs in Nottingham would look at sharing a venue in the future is always going to raise great debate, and the same as any Panthers/Steelers debate, will include a number of people on the wind up.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Sept 23, 2009 9:35:18 GMT
I don't expect to see anything, it doesn't concern me and I don't read the press very often except for match reports. I've heard people in and around Nottingham making outlandish comments about how much 'bigger' than Forest Notts will be and i've heard similarly stupid and disparaging comments about Notts from Forest fans. It's all starting to take on the kind of bitter farce of a rivalry that now exists with Panthers and Steelers. My comments about Notts were genuine outsider views, the club is becoming a joke amongst other fans and everyone will a) want to beat you because of the perceived arrogance (validly perceived or not is irrellevant, that is the view that is held) and b) everyone will be very quick to put you down when you fall at various hurdles. Simply swiping back with 'we're going to be massive' is not very adult or based on any fact, I can say we're going to get in the Premiership and win it within 5 years, don;t mean ti will happen.
Fact of the matter is that Notts County are a work in progress, and good luck to them, but it's be nice if everything good Notts do didn't turn into a reason to crow about how they will be the biggest club in the City and similarly it's be nice if everytime they (Notts) lose the equivalent idiots in the Forest camp didn't start crowing about how small a club Notts are with no hope of being anythign else.
Just wish everyone would grow up and see that 2 competitive clubs, without all the petty squabbling, is good for the city - I am immensely proud of my home city and would back anything that is good for Nottingham, that includes the improvement and long term success of Notts County.
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 23, 2009 9:49:56 GMT
Is County becoming a joke amongst other fans around the country though, or are they just taking pot shots when they can because they're jealous that it's not their club that has owners that can pump huge amounts of money in? That's a genuine question, the only football fans I know are from in and around Nottingham or are fans of premiership teams. The fans of premiership teams generally seemed to just raise an eyebrow when County's current situation arose. County fans either seem excited or quietly optimistic. Forest fans I know that aren't on this forum seem to either say it'll be good if County can climb the ladder a bit or they go very quiet about the whole thing. It's only a few on here that I've seen suggesting that County have become a joke, and I honestly don't understand why. I wish Munto Finance would give me millions of pounds and make me a joke
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Post by Rich on Sept 23, 2009 10:18:57 GMT
Is County becoming a joke amongst other fans around the country though, or are they just taking pot shots when they can because they're jealous that it's not their club that has owners that can pump huge amounts of money in? That's a genuine question, the only football fans I know are from in and around Nottingham or are fans of premiership teams. The fans of premiership teams generally seemed to just raise an eyebrow when County's current situation arose. County fans either seem excited or quietly optimistic. Forest fans I know that aren't on this forum seem to either say it'll be good if County can climb the ladder a bit or they go very quiet about the whole thing. It's only a few on here that I've seen suggesting that County have become a joke, and I honestly don't understand why. I wish Munto Finance would give me millions of pounds and make me a joke Fair last post Pantherinmanc, I agree. Completely agree with Donut, I fail to see how Notts are laughing stock. Lets not forget, thats also the phrase given to Derby by Forest fans, maybe its just their swipe at rivals. As for the last post maybe they could buy this place and call it "Munto cage forum"?! ;D Im not worried about Sol but the conspiracy theories are flying everywhere! If theres more to it Im slightly concerned, losing Sol isnt a major issue tbh if its straight forward
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Post by pantherinmanc on Sept 23, 2009 10:19:13 GMT
In the past few months i've discussed the situation (as being from Nottm you get questioned about it) with fans of, amongst others, Stoke, Liverpool, Altrincham, Bolton, Man Utd, Blackburn and Port Vale. The overriding comments are either 'it's all a bit of a joke' or 'it's destined to end in tears'. Obviously lots of other comments about Eriksson and his past activities as well!
But yes my feeling is that a lot of other fans do feel it's a bit of a joke. Certainly there will be some jealousy, but then for my part, as a fan of Forest, why would I be jealous of Notts, we have the resources to spend what we need to on the players we need (the fact we are not scoring goals and are losing games is not down to a lack of resources - not sure what it's down to tbh!), we have a bright future and that would, for me anyway, not be impinged upon by what Notts do, if anything it would enhance it if we could have genuine derbies against them.
What I will say is that clubs, especially those in the lower reaches, should have long term plans to be viable based on their own income generating ability. I have no issue if Munto are in it to invest and create the platform on which that self supporting structure can be achieved but no club should be run on the basis that it's funded by rich owners. That includes clubs like Man City. It's asking for trouble - the primary objective of any business should be to generate profit. Funnily enough it's that aspect which causes issues at many EIHL clubs, where they are hobbies for moderately rich owners, rather than businesses being run to maximise profit and then spend based on that profit. Manchester being a good example - not content with living within their means, because it meant they couldn't spend with the big boys at Panthers and Steelers, they went down to the EPL so that their owner could continue his dream of having a successful club. I'm afraid sport isn't just sport any more and these clubs need to be run as self sufficient businesses first, and once successful in that regard they can use that success to fund and support on ice/field success.
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