tootoo
Robert Lachowicz
Something kinda ooh!
Posts: 517
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Post by tootoo on May 16, 2008 12:12:12 GMT
I realise it's everyone's dream for the league to be expanded. It's mine also but I can see a few reasons why it won't happen in the immediate future:
1. The money required to compete at Elite League level is too much for the likes of MK, Fife and Dundalk to stump up, particularly in light of falling attendances. Remember only Swindon outside of the Elite League have increased their figures.
2. A league expansion would mean less Panthers v Steelers games and given the money and coverage those games bring in, I can hardly see Moran et al voting for it.
3. Were the likes of Ayr, Fife, MK, Slough and Guildford to join that would lead to an EPL of only 8/9 teams and a Scottish league of only 3 teams. Sorry, but I just can't see the authorities allowing the viability of other leagues to suffer just for the sake of expanding the Elite.
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Post by shelton22 on May 16, 2008 12:37:42 GMT
im all for the league expansion but like tootoo said it will make other leagues in the uk have less teams in them so why dont we have a system like they do in football and have the bottom 2 teams go down in to the league below and the top 2 teams of the league below come up in to our league because then we are goin to still get new teams and it will make teams want to play better because they dont want to go down a league
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on May 16, 2008 13:10:49 GMT
im not sure and may be wrong, but wouldnt the fact that the EIHL and the EPL have different governing bodies hinder a promo/relegation type 2 leagues???
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tootoo
Robert Lachowicz
Something kinda ooh!
Posts: 517
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Post by tootoo on May 16, 2008 22:50:34 GMT
You could never have relegation in British ice hockey. That's a total non-starter because many teams from the Elite League just would not be able to sustain themsleves playing second division hockey. The standards are a gulf apart.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on May 16, 2008 23:16:54 GMT
i think this idea of a new FA cup type of competiton would be good, bring in all the smaller leagues in stages as with the FA cup rounds and also good chance of the smaller clubs getting a decent payday, make them all over two legs, can you imagine some of our guys reaction at say romford or isle of wight etc! Would also be good for us to see some different faces and chances of shock wins! This cup competition everyone is yapping on about. Everyone wants to see EPL, ENL and EIHL in it but it could not work. You would have to limit imports when EIHL teams play lower league teams - otherwise it would be a farce. Now hypothetically, lets say Newcastle Vipers EIHL draw Newcastle Vipers ENL. Where are the Elite team going to find enough Brits to make a team? Under normal circumstances they would draw on the ENL team, but that would not be possible in this position. That situation would be seen at a number of other clubs. Panthers included. why would it be a farce and why limit imports, if it is a cup competition shock results would happen, as with this years fa cup, barnsley put out liverpool and chelsea, i would regard barnsley as enl and the other two as elite standard, and same for cardiff beating middlesboro, also think outside the box it could generate good revenue for the smaller clubs and this will make the whole structure of this sport stronger! Got to say i reckon the lions would love a pop at the panthers!
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Post by rangers on May 16, 2008 23:42:57 GMT
Seriously? Invicta, one of the top ENL sides, played in the EPL cup this year. Group stages - played 8, scores 13, conceded 68, no points. Romford, one of the poorest teams in the EPL at the time, were in that group. Imagine if they played a full strength Coventry team. panther(or any other EIHL team for that matter) attendances were way down in the last competative cross league competition. And that was when there were some NHL lockout players, as well as quality players such as Jonny Weaver, Jan Krajicek, Greg Kuznik and Peter Campbell - The ENL is a much lower quality than that Can you imagine the emptyness of the NIC for a match v Blackburn, for example.(Blackburns rink holds 3,000ish - but how many panther fans would make that trek - or extra blackburn fans would be attracted - i suggest not many) The competition, with import limits, in theory is a good idea. In practice a failure.
And I havnt even mentioned the politics between leagues.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on May 17, 2008 8:31:11 GMT
You can look at it either way, why do fans get exicited about minnows playing giants in any sport, if you want this sport to be taken seriously you must look at the whole picture win lose or draw blackburn would get a better payday than they get now, in this league to much complacency and too much treating it like a private members club, as for invicta versus coventry can you imagine any non league team beating a prem or championship team in the FA cup hmmmm wait a minute, 99 times out of 100 coventry would win but it is the chance of the 1% that makes it interesting.
To me this sport is ruled by too many ludites, who will not try anything different to create interest, ostrich like creatures all of them. one final point if one of these minnows beat an elite team it would create a bit of press coverage so yet again a win , win situation.
finally don't tell me the logistics would not work it is down to the people running this sport to make it work!
With any new innovation there are people saying it can't be done but to me they are as relevant today as the flat earth society!
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Post by texpef on May 17, 2008 9:04:34 GMT
been there done this before with the early rounds of what was the benson and hedges cup when it was early days of the superleague and yes occasionally there was an upset but as it was the preliminary rounds you didnt need to win all the games to go through..
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Post by rangers on May 17, 2008 10:26:24 GMT
Some of the top EIHL teams fans moan when they have to watch games v hull or edinburgh because of the quality gap. Now people want an even bigger gap. While there were a couple of shock results, look at the crossover table and see where the respective leagues finished. You cant compare it the Pemier v non league. The gap in British hockey is even bigger than that. I would suggest that a full Coventry team would beat a full Blackburn team at least 999 times out of 1000. If one of the top teams in the ENL is really struggling to compete v a weak EPL team, then that shows just how big a gap is.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on May 17, 2008 13:03:33 GMT
rangers people moan about the gap in quality in the prem now but all footie fans will tell you the fa cup is unique, sort of chase town beating port vale, you can have the lowest tier in first then the next up and elite come in around a similar round three, by then some of the lowest leagues might have put out teams from the next tier. The thing is do we settle for stagnation and the same old, same old, or do we try something different to create some new excitement throughout the sport, i reckon sky may be interested as well.
if any sport stands still these days it will die on its feet!
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
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Post by Milkman™ on May 17, 2008 13:38:39 GMT
When 2 of the top teams in the country don't even enter the BKO what kind of message is that sending out?
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on May 17, 2008 13:46:05 GMT
When 2 of the top teams in the country don't even enter the BKO what kind of message is that sending out? the wrong one in my view chris but i don't own the clubs!
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
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Post by Milkman™ on May 17, 2008 14:15:17 GMT
When 2 of the top teams in the country don't even enter the BKO what kind of message is that sending out? the wrong one in my view chris but i don't own the clubs! Your not wrong Rod*, they tell us that the ice time is not there, however if a 3 way mini tournament, the Milkman cup, Panthers, Sheffield and Coventry was introduced, I reckon ice time could be found. *Rod, for not knowing your name, oldman is so unfamiliar Bored of the FA cup final yet?, glad I turned it down.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on May 17, 2008 14:28:10 GMT
well at least you didnt call me sharlock chris, as for cup final stil got a vested interest welsh team in the final!
back to the point i cannot understand the logic of not taking every chance of winning silverware if it is mid season team and fans get a boost and some bragging rights!
you know what they say you have to be in it to win it!
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tootoo
Robert Lachowicz
Something kinda ooh!
Posts: 517
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Post by tootoo on May 18, 2008 10:22:50 GMT
if any sport stands still these days it will die on its feet! I agree with you for once Oldman, however I think people recognise the need to have some stability in UK ice hockey and not get carried away with ourselves. The changes are slowly, slowly happening. Two seasons ago Hull joined the Elite and we got a new sponsor, last season we got Sky on board. The sport is far from stagnating but, at the same time, it is necessary to take a softly softly approach. We have all witnessed the remarkable ease with which clubs in Britain can fold - Scottish Eagles, London Racers, Solihull Barons. The idea must be to build up from a solid base and, who knows, we may have a FA Cup-style competition for UK ice hopckey in a few years. But are we ready for it yet?? I can see the way forward being to have a Elite/EPL style Knockout Cup featuring eight Elite League teams (so probably not the Panthers and Steelers) and eight teams from the EPL. Trial it, and then go from there. I think it'll take a little while before the ENL come on board. For one thing it's not the same standard of hockey and, as people have rightly pointed out, without import limits you could well get scores of 36-0. Who wants to watch that? It's embarrassing for the losing team and boring for the winning team. Another issue is the capacity and safety of the ENL rinks for Elite League players who are used to checking, taking hard shots, etc. If Lea Valley wasn't a suitable standard for the Elite League then what about places like Streatham and Billingham?? I've been to some of these places and they are awful. What I'm saying is there are proabbly health and safety issues there that some teams wouldn't want to touch with a barge pole. The solution would be to play all games at the big arenas but, if you did that, much of the 'beauty of the competition' would be taken away, with the added risk of many games being played in front of tiny crowds.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on May 18, 2008 10:38:52 GMT
Whilst i agree with a lot of that i am not saying do it now or even next season but look at the positives against the negatives. As for arenas being suitable, hate to keep comparing it to football but on occasions if the lower league ground is declared unfit to stage a big crowd it is either moved to the nearest available stadium or it is moved to the opponents stadium and the lower club get a good financial payday anyway!
I see this as something that can generate finance down to the lower leagues and that will give the sport a better framework to continue its growth.
As for any of the EPL teams here people would come out to look at a different team rather than same old all season, also the chance of an upset would bring the odd shuff and cov here, and some just love to see us put the puck in the net, also to be fair i dont think the gulf is that wide and elite coaches might be able to check out some prospects for the future in the EPL playing to elite standards!
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