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Post by texpef on May 19, 2007 13:29:06 GMT
afterall isnt sheffield very well known for their brown envelopes.....
From their own ex coach and players mouths too....
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
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Post by Shorty on May 19, 2007 13:40:44 GMT
And the good old biscuit tin.....
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Post by NickThePanther44 on May 19, 2007 17:59:50 GMT
just wondering, does anyone know if theres anything like a signing on fee? as like Shorty has said if its paid when the contract has initially been signed it might well not count on the wage cap.
just sounds like a good way to boost the old pay packet
Nick
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Post by gazzathedevil on May 19, 2007 22:03:28 GMT
afterall isnt sheffield very well known for their brown envelopes..... From their own ex coach and players mouths too.... They were once, but then again so were a lot of Superleague teams. Yet this comes up a lot and really its a 6 year old argument that has no bearing in the here and now. Especially after a league change, owner changes and numerous coach changes. and that goes for EVERYONE. What is happening at the moment though is that there is a worrying trend developing in the Elite league where by a couple of teams are throwing a few 'packages' at players where other teams not as fortunate are cutting their cloth to their means. Basicaly i believe the Wage cap is becoming useless like it has before. And thta isnt good for anyone.
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Post by texpef on May 19, 2007 22:16:17 GMT
yet the "attitude" is still there gazza, that "need" to win at all costs...
go on try telling me it isnt?!!!
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Post by gazzathedevil on May 19, 2007 22:26:24 GMT
yet the "attitude" is still there gazza, that "need" to win at all costs... go on try telling me it isnt?!!! To be honest Tex i couldnt tell you for certain. What i could tell you is that their owner was in charge of a hockey club that struggled like hell in a less than spectacular building. And knows that it isnt the only club thats in that shape. So to be honest i would put more faith in BP putting a budget in place that is more sympathethic from that point of view. Frankly the noises coming from a few teams i get that some teams are feeling that they are bigger than they are ever going to realistically be. If this was the ISL i would be ecstatic to see this attitude. However i think that we MAY be heading down a road that once again in 3 years time we will ALL be regretting we went down. I hope i am wrong and i guess we will find that out at the end of this coming season. I hope i am wrong and a few owners start looking at the bigger picture.
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Post by Daddio on May 19, 2007 23:27:33 GMT
This whole wage cap business is a bit of a game of guesses and not so dodgy deals, but forgetting all that I think Panthers have a comparatively "Cheap" Defense as we stand" . Rasto has played most of his career except 1 season in Austria in Slovakia, where the wages are less than even the Elite league even tho the standard is much higher. I remember a rumour about Stancock saying his 1 season here paid off his house at home. So cant see Bobby wanting too much to come back. Rees is a journeyman minor league D man and Meyers according to his own interview in the NEP accepted first offer ME gave him. That just leaves Corey who may be on a good wage (Tho coaching duties may off set some of this) That gives us plenty of negotiating space for Messers Clarke, Smith and Mc Aslan if the rumours are to be believed.
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on May 20, 2007 9:03:52 GMT
What is happening at the moment though is that there is a worrying trend developing in the Elite league where by a couple of teams are throwing a few 'packages' at players where other teams not as fortunate are cutting their cloth to their means. Basicaly i believe the Wage cap is becoming useless like it has before. And thta isnt good for anyone. That was my concern from a few weeks ago. It looks to me that both Sheffield and Nottingham have upped their spending to achieve success. Not only will both clubs be providing nice houses/cars for the players, but they're also using other ways of offering financial incentives to sign players. University educations, secondary jobs (fitness coach), wives jobs all appear to be ways of offering inducements to players outside of the cap. People need to decide whether such inducements are acceptable or not. It shouldn't be a case of being acceptable if our team can afford it, but suddenly become unacceptable if other teams can afford to do it. I worry for teams like Hull and Edinburgh who just can't get close to the packages being offered by Sheffield, Nottingham, Belfast and Coventry. We're in danger of creating two leagues within a league as the bigger teams start to try and find ways of outspending each other.....we've been there before and the end result isn't pretty. Regards Doom
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Post by SURF96 on May 20, 2007 20:08:36 GMT
"It gets better"....... ? See other thread. OK, so there are rumours about Huppe,.......... we've already got PC (on half playing salary if you believe the threads), rumours about Clarkie, MacAslan and Drouin on the same line.........Sounds great but assuming all this is true and we end up winning the grand slam.......Hollow victory? ? How much more support and how much bigger are the accolades for the under-dog??? The Play-Off win was sooooo much sweeter for us because we weren't expected to win. How much empathy and support goes out to Newcastle and Edinburgh from all teams compared to us, Shuff and Coventry?? I would dearly love to win the league next year but not at the expense of being accused of having bought the success and victory, in fact never mind the accusations from other teams, I wouldn't want to win it knowing in my own mind that it was only achieved through the size and depth of Neil Black's pockets. I have never followed football, cricket or rugby, only ice hockey, because in my mind it is one of the few team sports which operate on a nearly level playing field. Sermon over........
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matt44
David Clarke
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Post by matt44 on May 20, 2007 21:12:55 GMT
I wouldn't want to win it knowing in my own mind that it was only achieved through the size and depth of Neil Black's pockets. ........ WHO gives a rats backside aslong as we win it within the wage cap!!! Do you think Man Utd and Chelsea loose sleep winning all those titles just because they have more money than Charlton or Sheff Utd for example?? Aslong as its legal I dont care how we win it.
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Post by gazzathedevil on May 20, 2007 21:26:19 GMT
"It gets better"....... ? See other thread. How much more support and how much bigger are the accolades for the under-dog??? The Play-Off win was sooooo much sweeter for us because we weren't expected to win. How much empathy and support goes out to Newcastle and Edinburgh from all teams compared to us, Shuff and Coventry?? .. s Why werent you expected to win it? you were playing a side who had been playing 3 games a week since December had played the league champions the day before the final. And you were on your own ice. not to mention Gerad Adams hadnt even completed half a season as a coach. If you werent favourites i dont know what you have to do to be favourites in this day and age lol
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Post by SURF96 on May 20, 2007 21:33:14 GMT
"It gets better"....... ? See other thread. How much more support and how much bigger are the accolades for the under-dog??? The Play-Off win was sooooo much sweeter for us because we weren't expected to win. How much empathy and support goes out to Newcastle and Edinburgh from all teams compared to us, Shuff and Coventry?? .. s Why werent you expected to win it? you were playing a side who had been playing 3 games a week since December had played the league champions the day before the final. And you were on your own ice. not to mention Gerad Adams hadnt even completed half a season as a coach. If you werent favourites i dont know what you have to do to be favourites in this day and age lol You only need to look at the threads on the Elite League forum and the polls leading up to the playoff weekend to see that we were 4th favourites...That coupled with the fact that our trophy cabinet had been empty for a number of years.
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matt44
David Clarke
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Post by matt44 on May 20, 2007 21:35:02 GMT
Not to mention each team we played finished above us in the league!!!!!! Geesh, sore loser! If it hindered you that much how come you finished 4th and got to the final by beating the League Champions convincingly? We could say that we played for 2 months minus 2 players so our guys wouldve been more tired as a result of having to take more shifts..........
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Post by gazzathedevil on May 20, 2007 21:51:03 GMT
Not to mention each team we played finished above us in the league!!!!!! Geesh, sore loser! If it hindered you that much how come you finished 4th and got to the final by beating the League Champions convincingly? We could say that we played for 2 months minus 2 players so our guys wouldve been more tired as a result of having to take more shifts.......... Hey nothing sore about this loser, we lost on shots we matched you in open play and lost probably to Rasto's amazing save from Ianazzo Penalty shot. But if i went to a bookie and said 'hey cardiff jsut played a game against their biggest rivals and league and challenge cup champions, they have had a crammed fixture schedule and we are playing nottingham tomorrow who are playing on home ice and we have only beaten them at their lpace once in 4 years' I think we all know what the odds would have been like Also we finished 3rd last season only 6 points behind coventry, which considering we didnt have home ice and lost a coach in the process is a fantastic acheivement. Add into a British cup win which also took 4 games to win same as the playoffs and we had to play 3 of the 4 games away 2 of them giving up any sort of home or neutral advantage where we took less than a hundred fans each time. And we still come away with a trophy win. So no mate no sore losership there my team Vastly over achieved and imo became one of the very best Devils teams of all tiem with all they put up and look over some of our rosters thats a big claim from me.
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matt44
David Clarke
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Post by matt44 on May 20, 2007 21:53:30 GMT
Well why make up excuses for losing then when you have stated above how good your team was?
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matt44
David Clarke
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Post by matt44 on May 20, 2007 21:56:19 GMT
Also we finished 3rd last season only 6 points behind coventry, Oh yeah, sorry, you WOULDVE finished 4th apart from the little arrangement you had with Sheffield so they wouldve finish 4th instead so they could play us in the quarters. Oops, cynical old me! hehe
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Post by gazzathedevil on May 20, 2007 22:14:37 GMT
Well why make up excuses for losing then when you have stated above how good your team was? Where have i made excuses for loosing? we lost i was down for about an hour after the game then me and my band of hockey friends had a good ngiht reminiscing about the season. I just for the life of me cant see how we were ever favourites to win that game. If for nothing else than our atrocious record at the NIC. And ultimatly we didnt loose in regulation which is an achievment you held your nerve and Rasto pulled out a world class save for our second shot. I watched you lift the trophy and all your fans celebrate. Job done everyones happy. Again though i'll state i have never once given a reason or excuse for why we lost, only ever brought forth arguments for why in the eyes of imo most people we were nto favourites for that final game. As for the jibe about 3rd place, you werent at that Sheffield game and unless you weer it is forever pointless me arguing. What i will say though that finishing 6 points behind the champions and finishing higher in the league than the likes of yourselves and Sheffield was and always will be a fantasic acheivement for a hockey club who went on an amaxing roller coaster ride last season and should never be attempted to be sullied considering the hard work done by each and every player who called themselveves Devils last term.
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matt44
David Clarke
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Post by matt44 on May 20, 2007 22:25:25 GMT
Why werent you expected to win it? you were playing a side who had been playing 3 games a week since December had played the league champions the day before the final. And you were on your own ice. not to mention Gerad Adams hadnt even completed half a season as a coach. If you werent favourites i dont know what you have to do to be favourites in this day and age lol Thats where you were making excuses! I understand what you are saying, and yes, it was a great achievement by the Devils. But surely finishing higher in the league than us, escpecially under such hard circumstances, means you have a better team than we do......therefore stand more chance of beating us.
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Post by gazzathedevil on May 20, 2007 22:56:56 GMT
Why werent you expected to win it? you were playing a side who had been playing 3 games a week since December had played the league champions the day before the final. And you were on your own ice. not to mention Gerad Adams hadnt even completed half a season as a coach. If you werent favourites i dont know what you have to do to be favourites in this day and age lol Thats where you were making excuses! I understand what you are saying, and yes, it was a great achievement by the Devils. But surely finishing higher in the league than us, escpecially under such hard circumstances, means you have a better team than we do......therefore stand more chance of beating us. No where did i say 'thats why we lost' hence i never made one excuse it was all hypothetical speaking retrospectiveley to a time where we wouldnt have played each other yet. and as such impossible to be making excuses lol. We could win the league next season btu i bet if we do we wont get a regular season win against you in the NIC. i think the main reason we finished above you last season and indeed i think the reason the Panthers fall short of being the top team is your record against Sheffield is usally shocking, and if your gonna drop points in 6 games against one team then the law of averages says your not goign to have a spotless record against the rest of the league. But anyone your splashing the cash discuss
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Post by texpef on May 21, 2007 17:06:10 GMT
"It gets better"....... ? See other thread. OK, so there are rumours about Huppe,.......... we've already got PC (on half playing salary if you believe the threads), rumours about Clarkie, MacAslan and Drouin on the same line.........Sounds great but assuming all this is true and we end up winning the grand slam.......Hollow victory? ? How much more support and how much bigger are the accolades for the under-dog??? The Play-Off win was sooooo much sweeter for us because we weren't expected to win. How much empathy and support goes out to Newcastle and Edinburgh from all teams compared to us, Shuff and Coventry?? I would dearly love to win the league next year but not at the expense of being accused of having bought the success and victory, in fact never mind the accusations from other teams, I wouldn't want to win it knowing in my own mind that it was only achieved through the size and depth of Neil Black's pockets. I have never followed football, cricket or rugby, only ice hockey, because in my mind it is one of the few team sports which operate on a nearly level playing field. Sermon over........ Couple of points here i just have to challenge!! 1. Who cares who we sign as long as we can prove that the wagecap is not broke!! 2. I and many others dont really give a monkeys about other teams and their fans, i SUPPORT the nottingham Panthers, yes i chose a side IF the panthers arent playing but it can hardly be called support and that is the opinion of most other fans i think you will find. So IF teams cheer against us then generally it is the least liked between the teams (sheffield anyone??) which would make little difference regardless of the team roster.. 3. You cant have been watching ice hockey long if you think there has always been a level playing field for as long as i can remember there has been one club or another that has bought success... look back on the history books and i think you will find that the fans of those teams do NOT think of their victories as hollow ones... 4. To be honest i believe that Panthers fans have waited long enough and if it takes to "splash the cash" to win the league then stuff it, so be it....
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