The future of hockey?

[firefly]

I saw this on the forum up the road.

I'm happy for teams like Newcastle and Bracknell to come back into the fold with there ISL roots, but as far as I'm concerned the likes of Edinburgh, Dundee, etc can take a hike.

Didnt see much support from certain BNL teams when BNL personnel were trying to stop the formation of the EIHL.

We dont want rotten apples in the EIHL barrel, may ruin the rest of the EIHL.

Kinda thoughtful doncher think?

[Heanor Lair]

firefly said:

I saw this on the forum up the road.


Kinda thoughtful doncher think?

I posted that, and I stand by it.

Sorry if it seems arrogant, but there were certain people within the BNL fold (not necessarily from the two teams mentioned), who were hell bent on trying to stop the formation of the EIHL.

We dont need those people in the EIHL, do you think they have decided the EIHL is a good idea when their own empire is crumbling around them.

Dont you believe it. Let them in the fold and they will just try to destroy it within.

These people should be cast adrift for the crimes against Ice Hockey in this country.

HL

[heja]

i thing it was guildford who were against the elite league when it was formed.

but just because there were againt it then doesn't mean they still are.

but i also think we shouldn't have more than a 12 team elite league

for a good few years any way, partly because of brits and partly because of fans not being interested in half the teams( i would be but most people wouldn't)

[Cunndies]

Heanor said:

I posted that, and I stand by it.

Sorry if it seems arrogant, but there were certain people within the BNL fold (not necessarily from the two teams mentioned), who were hell bent on trying to stop the formation of the EIHL.

We dont need those people in the EIHL, do you think they have decided the EIHL is a good idea when their own empire is crumbling around them.

Dont you believe it. Let them in the fold and they will just try to destroy it within.

These people should be cast adrift for the crimes against Ice Hockey in this country.

HL

So HL - you'd rather see 3 or 4 teams (if you mean Edinburgh, Fife, Dundee and Hull, as I assume you do), die than let them into your precious league?

Remember the last time that happened? Oh yes, the formation of the Superleague. Nice to see that everybody's learnt their lesson after that one....

What, exactly, are your objections to "the likes" of Edinburgh and Dundee?

[KimThePanther]

I don't agree with you HL, some clubs were hell bent on seeing the EIHL's failure, yes. That doesn't mean that the EIHL should 'fall to their level' (for want of a better saying) if these clubs now want to sustain top level ice hockey.

At the time they obviously didn't see the EIHL as the way forward, clubs feared that it would just be the Superleague under a new name, they've been proved wrong now. The more the merrier in my opinion.

[Milkman™]

I firmly beleive that the nduction of the superleague was the the final nail in the coffin of British Ice Hockey.

Correct me if i am wrong ?

[Wigwam]

Final nail in the Coffin?. So, your implying that it is in fact dead?. Doesn't seem very dead to me matey!

[Shaggy]

Heanor said:

I posted that, and I stand by it.

Sorry if it seems arrogant, but there were certain people within the BNL fold (not necessarily from the two teams mentioned), who were hell bent on trying to stop the formation of the EIHL.

We dont need those people in the EIHL, do you think they have decided the EIHL is a good idea when their own empire is crumbling around them.

Dont you believe it. Let them in the fold and they will just try to destroy it within.

These people should be cast adrift for the crimes against Ice Hockey in this country.

HL

I cannot believe you posted dreck like that, HL.
I'm shocked - and disgusted.

So some of the people running the BNL allegedly tried to scupper the EIHL? (hell - they DID try, and we all know it.... even if it's totally unproveable).

Why punish everyone concerned? There are, allegedly, two of the BNL owners who were instrumental in such...... should we condemn their clubs to a possible death for it? Should we deprive their fans of their teams?
And what about the other teams? - those that didn't work against the EIHL? OK - so they didn't stand up and fight for us....... so what? Maybe they couldn't..... maybe they knew it wouldn't have made any difference.

This sport is as weak and as fractured enough as it is without crippling or killing off any more teams.

HL - you may want to punish 'the guilty'..... but think about who else you would hurt as well.
Think on this - if those who were against the EIHL see their league crumble around them and are forced to join the EIHL - they'll have LOST. They will have been proven wrong, and to people like that..... that's painful. It might not be as much punishment as we'd like..... but it's all we're likely to get without harming a whole load of others.

Open your eyes HL and look beyond our immediate surroundings, will you?

[Milkman™]

Wigwam said:

Final nail in the Coffin?. So, your implying that it is in fact dead?. Doesn't seem very dead to me matey!

In terms of attendances and TV coverage it is?

The standard of hockey (generally) is much better that i agree.

As the question was asked, i answered pretty much how i see it, we have a six team league and thats no good for any progress, and pretty boring at times, even paws must admit that?

[Shaggy]

Therapy said:

As the question was asked, i answered pretty much how i see it, we have a six team league and thats no good for any progress, and pretty boring at times, even paws must admit that?

That's funny..... I could have sworn we have 7 teams in the league right now (plus Manchester waiting to come back in).

[Cunndies]

Good post Shaggy.

If we're to go down the road of old grudges again, then somebody could easily write a "the ISL started it" post, and we'd be at it again.

Plenty of people on THF were flamed for having that kind of attitude towards the ISL teams before the EIHL formed. This is the same thing. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.

[Wigwam]

As you see it?. When's the last time you SAW some Hockey?. Ya too busy hob-nobbing with ya Man Utd sorts now days...& you a Leeds Utd fan!!. Some people are sooooooooooo fickle!

[Milkman™]

I would hardly call basingstoke a competetive team now, and the manchester thing, thats been going on how long now, ill believe that whe i see it?

Are Sheffield going to be able field a team next year, does not lokk too promising does it?.

A scottish team, i hear you mention, imo they is gonna go the same way as basingstoke have this year.

Cos you dont see me round Nottingham dont mean i aint watching hockey does it? and the Man U thing, well thats what keeps me sane nowadays, no hassles on match nights, good tv and media coverage, and a damn sight cheaper than the panthers to follow too.

[Peacock]

Therapy said:

and the Man U thing... a damn sight cheaper than the panthers to follow too.

err...
NON-MEMBERS PRICES 2004/5 for Old Trafford
East/West Lower £26
North Tier 3 £28
East/West Tier 2 £30
North East/West Quadrants £30
East West Upper £30
Family Stand £30
North Tier 2 £32
South £34
North Stand Tier 1 £34

Ticket Prices for Panthers 2004/2005
Gold - £15
Silver - £13
Bronze - £13

Man U for 19 cheapest Home League games = £494
(if you can get a ticket in the first place!)

Panthers for 25 cheapest Home Legue games = £325

[Wigwam]

Sheffield have just signed 'Dutes' on a 2 (possibly 3) year deal...why would they do that if not expecting to bea round? Whilst Uncle Norton MAY not know if he wants to sell the club from one moment to the next, I class them being secure as any other team. We seem to have teams banging on the door to join the Elite League, whilst they MAY all not be as competetive, they will compete. West Brom, Southampton...would you say they shouldn't be in your new found hobby of Premiership Football, just because they can't compete with the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, & Man Utd?.
What makes you think a Scottish team..which ever league they may play in..wouldn't be able to compete as strongly?. Didn't a Scottish team win the Grand Slam (Ayr Scottish Eagles)?. It depends on a few factors....such as budget, players signed, & the coach.

Pleased to hear that Man Utd are keeping you sane. Panthers keep me sane..& I also get no hassles on Match nights either. Panthers ARE cheaper to watch than Man Utd....if you pay to get in (Not saying you don't/didn't).

Biggest question HAS to be...what the flip you doing following Man Utd anyway?. I thought you were Leeds Utd through, & through. What happened to loyalty?. Watching your team through thick & thin?. Just because Leeds have gone bust, & tits up in spectacular fashion recently...ya don't desert ya team once you have nailed your colours to the mast. Never had you down as a fickle Glory Hunter!!

[Spooks]

Could well do without the likes of Dundee, Edinburgh, Guildford etc in the EIHL, they are simply not good enough and just happen to be some of the most boring games of hockey i have ever seen. Unless they improve i say leave them out there for a season and see what happens to them.

[ktglitz]

Spooks said:

Could well do without the likes of Dundee, Edinburgh, Guildford etc in the EIHL, they are simply not good enough and just happen to be some of the most boring games of hockey i have ever seen. Unless they improve i say leave them out there for a season and see what happens to them.

Splendid post!
Last season London weren't good enough to be in the EIHL (based on their results) but they are there again this season.
Do you not think that if teams like Dundee and Edinburgh were given the same rules on imports etc that they might actually be able to compete better against EIHL teams?

I assume you aren't attending the double header then?

[Cunndies]

Spooks said:

Could well do without the likes of Dundee, Edinburgh, Guildford etc in the EIHL, they are simply not good enough and just happen to be some of the most boring games of hockey i have ever seen. Unless they improve i say leave them out there for a season and see what happens to them.

So again, you'd rather let teams like that die and deprive thousands of fans of watching their team, than let them into the Elite league?

Like CW said, after last season, how are London good enough? They won around 5 games all of last year! And that was under EIHL rules, with 12 imports!

How would you have felt if last summer, after the ISL collapsed that rather than forming the EIHL, the Panthers/Steelers etc were told to "sit out" for a year, and probably die?

[Warren]

CapsWebmaster said:

Splendid post!
Last season London weren't good enough to be in the EIHL (based on their results) but they are there again this season.
Do you not think that if teams like Dundee and Edinburgh were given the same rules on imports etc that they might actually be able to compete better against EIHL teams?

I assume you aren't attending the double header then?

That is a very valid point. If memory serves, London were working with a vastly smaller budget last season and are on equal terms this season.

Also Has not some of the results in the Cross confrence given some people the confidence in the BNL teams? They play by diffrent rules (Regardign imports and budget) Surely if on a level playing field then there would be less of a gap, creating more competative matches?

[Spooks]

At least the games last year with London were ok to watch so far the BNL teams this year have been BORING, apart from Hull which actually had some spark about them.

[ktglitz]

Spooks said:

At least the games last year with London were ok to watch so far the BNL teams this year have been BORING, apart from Hull which actually had some spark about them.

Yes but London were playing to the EIHL rules whereas the BNL ones aren't.
As stated by Warren above, give them a level playing field and I am sure you would see the difference.

[Spooks]

Cunndies said:

So again, you'd rather let teams like that die and deprive thousands of fans of watching their team, than let them into the Elite league?

YES, dont live in any of those places.

Like CW said, after last season, how are London good enough? They won around 5 games all of last year! And that was under EIHL rules, with 12 imports!

How would you have felt if last summer, after the ISL collapsed that rather than forming the EIHL, the Panthers/Steelers etc were told to "sit out" for a year, and probably die?

Never happend did it, so a pointless argument.

[MP]

Warren said:

Surely if on a level playing field then there would be less of a gap, creating more competative matches?

One of the problems is getting the level playing field. Operating costs for teams vary widely - it costs a lot more to play in a large arena than it does in a small rink.

Just reducing the wage cap and import quotas until all the clubs can meet them won't solve anything as the clubs with the higher running costs (and bigger crowds) will suffer.

It will be a tricky balancing act to keep all the current teams in business and move hockey in this country forward at the same time.

[Milkman™]

Wigwam said:

Pleased to hear that Man Utd are keeping you sane. Panthers keep me sane..& I also get no hassles on Match nights either. Panthers ARE cheaper to watch than Man Utd....if you pay to get in (Not saying you don't/didn't).

Not when you consider the days taken off work, travel expenses etc they are not.

The, if you pay to get in line is a low blow, you know damned well i paid for a season ticket ticket just as the mascot does, nobody ever turns down a free away game ticket though do they ?

[NevesMetro]

MP said:

One of the problems is getting the level playing field. Operating costs for teams vary widely - it costs a lot more to play in a large arena than it does in a small rink.

Just reducing the wage cap and import quotas until all the clubs can meet them won't solve anything as the clubs with the higher running costs (and bigger crowds) will suffer.

It will be a tricky balancing act to keep all the current teams in business and move hockey in this country forward at the same time.

Spot on MP.
Whilst all must be done to protect all clubs in the BNL, it can't be done at the expense of the clubs in the elite league. a 14 team league (with 2 home and away games) would (in my mind) cost the Panthers (and others) between £25-75k in attendance money. So that's not the way forward
Hopefully the BNL will be able to sort out it's own ship
Or someone can come up with a great plan that will move EVERYONE forward.
Fingers crossed