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Post by Stoopy on Nov 15, 2004 6:14:40 GMT
Interesting that Jono on the THF gives a totally different view on the incident. Apparantly Ivan was given the game for his comments to Boniface. None of us heard those.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Nov 15, 2004 7:03:28 GMT
Apparantly Ivan was given the game for his comments to Boniface. None of us heard those. Stating the obvious there Sooty! Ivan got a 10 min misconduct for his celebration followed by a Game for letting the referee know what he thought of that decision. At least that's how it looked from where I was sitting. Suggesting to a referee that he is less than perfect at his job has always been a good way of getting first use of the hot water in the shower. Mind you, Mr Boniface should have had at least a 2 minute minor for delay of the game. He was late back onto the ice for the start of the 2nd period and kept the teams waiting... most unprofessional.
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Warren
Greg Hadden
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Post by Warren on Nov 15, 2004 7:32:58 GMT
Speaking to Big Dave Page post match regarding the incident, and he has taken many a photo of the goal celbreation. He does dsay that from certain Angles it does look like a Hitler Salute. BUT That is in a STILL photograph. If it was a single salute, Marek kept his arm straight for any length of time then yes, on remberance Sunday (For which there was no minitues silence ) I think he does deserve a 10minitue game miscinduct. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. He did mulitple salutes to mulitple sections of the crowd, which on Remeberance Sunday (For which there was no Minitues silence ) I found to be very respectful.
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Post by Lucy on Nov 15, 2004 7:39:09 GMT
Pity Andy French wasn't there last night - saw him in Belfast and he said he was having a night off!
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Post by girdeaux on Nov 15, 2004 7:41:16 GMT
Speaking to Big Dave Page post match regarding the incident, and he has taken many a photo of the goal celbreation. He does dsay that from certain Angles it does look like a Hitler Salute. BUT That is in a STILL photograph. If it was a single salute, Marek kept his arm straight for any length of time then yes, on remberance Sunday (For which there was no minitues silence ) I think he does deserve a 10minitue game miscinduct. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. He did mulitple salutes to mulitple sections of the crowd, which on Remeberance Sunday (For which there was no Minitues silence ) I found to be very respectful. So it IS possible Nigel Boniface thought it MAY have been a Hitler salute? So therefore, this post----> The mind boggles, but the only thing I can think of, is perhaps the referee thought it was a Hitler salute...? But why would a player do that and do that to his own fans...? I honestly don't know though mate ...Isn't as ludicrous as some thought
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Keyring
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 533
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Post by Keyring on Nov 15, 2004 8:19:38 GMT
Thats what i said to david (thisis_where) i hope they do take his game match ban off him, otherwise it would mean missing him against Cardiff wouldn't it? which is going to be a big match
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Post by nuttyrockeress on Nov 15, 2004 8:22:21 GMT
So it IS possible Nigel Boniface thought it MAY have been a Hitler salute? So therefore, this post----> ...Isn't as ludicrous as some thought Funnily enough, I mentioned this to Lucy in the bar after the game - I did say "The only reason I can think of for a game was that he thought he was doing (The Hitler thing) that?" To which we had a bit of a giggle - thinking surely not but you never know - surely Nige wouldn't think that?....
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Warren
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,467
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Post by Warren on Nov 15, 2004 8:26:10 GMT
Very True Anton. But it does rely on lots of if's and Buts. I wonder if Peron's Celebration of climbing the Plexi and shaking it will be deemed as offensive? I know if he did it in front of me I would be offended. (I think more that he manged to score rather than his celbration). I do believe there should be regulations on celbrations, I mean skating down to the oposing net mider is OTT and would deserve such penaltys. Perhaps in future there should no music, limted clapping and only 1 cheer per goal. Oh hearing a pin drop between plays is a must
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Post by girdeaux on Nov 15, 2004 8:26:27 GMT
Funnily enough, I mentioned this to Lucy in the bar after the game - I did say "The only reason I can think of for a game was that he thought he was doing (The Hitler thing) that?" To which we had a bit of a giggle - thinking surely not but you never know - surely Nige wouldn't think that?.... I'm not stating for one minute that that was the reasoning behind Boniface's decision, but I've never heard of a player being given a 10 misconduct penalty for celebrating... And given it was Remembarence sunday, I simply thought it might have been a factor... Only Nigel knows why he gave Ivan the penalty though
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Post by girdeaux on Nov 15, 2004 8:27:20 GMT
Very True Anton. But it does rely on lots of if's and Buts. Oh absolutely Warren, and I point you to the reply I gave to NR
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Keyring
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 533
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Post by Keyring on Nov 15, 2004 8:36:02 GMT
well why do they continually hire boniface to ref the matches?!?! get a BNL ref, better jobs!
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Post by grayhead on Nov 15, 2004 8:39:12 GMT
Once again, methinks it's time to ask McKenna, Cairns and the other NHL players over here if they know the phone numbers for the NHL stripeys. If the clubs can utilise the 'lock-out' then why do the Elite League do likewise. McKenna's face was a picture last night ::)when he realised what Boniface had called. What will this do to British Ice Hockey's reputation ANDY FRENCH - YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING NOW ABOUT THE STANDARD OF OFFICIATING Lets get some training courses set up, or appoint a referee Supremo who understands the game.
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Keyring
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by Keyring on Nov 15, 2004 8:49:17 GMT
Once again, methinks it's time to ask McKenna, Cairns and the other NHL players over here if they know the phone numbers for the NHL stripeys. If the clubs can utilise the 'lock-out' then why do the Elite League do likewise. McKenna's face was a picture last night ::)when he realised what Boniface had called. What will this do to British Ice Hockey's reputation ANDY FRENCH - YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING NOW ABOUT THE STANDARD OF OFFICIATING Lets get some training courses set up, or appoint a referee Supremo who understands the game. Very good Point, something needs to be done! It makes the game more miserable, if that incident hadn't happened we would all be happy and comfortable in our victory (which we still are but we have the thought in the back of our minds that we will be "possibly" missing Ivan, they video record the matches yeah? so why can't they watch the incident, then make a decision! *edited because my teacher came hehehe*
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Post by broders on Nov 15, 2004 10:27:14 GMT
Totaly agree with you Greyhead ,lets get some refs from across the pond to sort this lot out.
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Keyring
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 533
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Post by Keyring on Nov 15, 2004 11:19:12 GMT
any ideas how much it would cost, and it would only be a temporary thing wouldn't it? it doesn't fix the problem. here's my list of bad referee's (the really bad ones)
1. Boniface 2. Carson 3. Hicks
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Keyring
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 533
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Post by Keyring on Nov 15, 2004 11:22:23 GMT
oooo, just had a thought, if we got rid of them, we would save money on their wages, thus being able to afford a few better referees! it's simple yet so genious!
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Post by Spooks on Nov 15, 2004 11:24:21 GMT
Something needs to be done and something soon. I said this at the begining of the season the standard of play and general Elite ice hockey is ok and is improving the only thing that is not getting better is the standard of offical`s. I am utterly amazed, infact disgusted at Bonifiace last night. Not just the call on Ivan either.
Mr French i pleaed you to sort this out, it is damaging hockey why cant you see this ?
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Post by grayhead on Nov 15, 2004 11:28:58 GMT
oooo, just had a thought, if we got rid of them, we would save money on their wages, thus being able to afford a few better referees! it's simple yet so genious! Unfortunately I believe we need them to stay . That is, unless we can find some new ones prepared to replace them . I remember a conversation I had several years ago with Nico Toeman, who said that there were not enough refs/linepersons (had to use this given Joy is officiating) about to simply clear the bad ones out . What we need to do is to train the ones we have to do a professional job. This is a MUST to stop our reputation falling even further. How many players will want to come to these shores after the stories get back
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Keyring
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by Keyring on Nov 15, 2004 11:33:38 GMT
yep good point, training would be good, but i'm sure theres some other ref's that will want to ref our games, may not be the best refs in the world but they will show more common sense than boniface last night, i just want to know why his linesmen didn't say anything to him you know, they could persuade him that his decision was bad, just a thought, what you think?
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Nov 15, 2004 11:48:33 GMT
I think the next time Nige comes into town and is announced we should all salute the man I can picture it now.... As the referee is announced as Nigel Boniface the crowd at the NIC stands and make exagerated salutes to the referee, and keep on saluting and saluting... Suspect we'd all get misconduct penalties and he'd have the building cleared ;D
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Rhino#13
Jim Keyes
South Notts Outlaws Rule
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Post by Rhino#13 on Nov 15, 2004 11:55:18 GMT
I was one of those screaming at Boniface last night as I couldn't understand what on Earth he was playing at. I figured the Game was for Ivan mouthing off, but the 10 minuter was ludicrous in itself.
Circumstances under which I would have understood the decision:
1) If he'd done it at the away block - He didn't. He was nowhere near.
2) If he'd celebrated in a manner which delayed the game ie. going on way too long, taking off kit, pulling plexi apart, etc. - He didn't. His celebration took a maximum of ten seconds.
3) If it actually was an intended Hitler salute - I don't honestly think anyone would be that moronic. 'Hey, I scored, so I'm gonna celebrate by giving tribute to a monster on Remembrance Sunday at the inhabitants of a country who went to war with him'. Err, yeah right. Surely if that's really what Boniface thought he should have talked to him about it first ??! I'm sure Ivan would have been horrified at the misapprehension.
4) If Ivan abused Boniface first - I still can't see this really. Maybe if Boniface came at him with 'Now look, don't celebrate so much !' (he had to skate like Wilf O'Reilly to get there quick enough before it was over as it was !) and Ivan told him not to be so bl**dy daft, or words to that effect.
The whole thing was just so unnecessary. In a game where he ignored numerous calls on both sides including a high stick on Mad Dog which caused him to have to pull his helmet back on, it was ridiculous. It also spoiled the fact that this game included some of the best goals I've seen in years. Ivan's wraparound was the sharpest I've ever witnessed, Clarke's dive through the middle and slot was great and Flyer Biette's wonder goal which had the entire home crowd applauding it was so good was magnificent. What is Biette doing with the Flyers ? Has no one offered him more money to jump or does he just really like it in Fife ?
Totally a better game than I expected to see against a BNL side.
By the way, I don't think Ivan will miss the next game as, correct me if I'm wrong, Game penalties only apply to the game in question. Its Match penalties that carry a mandatory 1 match ban after.
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Post by martin on Nov 15, 2004 12:22:24 GMT
Yes, but Ivan got a 10 + GAME.
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Post by Spooks on Nov 15, 2004 12:24:53 GMT
Here hoping all the team do a 1 knee salute for goals scored for the rest of the season
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twix
Lorne Smith
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Post by twix on Nov 15, 2004 12:29:02 GMT
Yes, but Ivan got a 10 + GAME. Exactly. He was given a GAME not a MATCH penalty. As Rhino#13 says, he won't be autonmatically banned for that.
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Post by heja on Nov 15, 2004 12:40:56 GMT
i am sure he was given a game misconduct while he was still celebrating, well thats what i got from the signal the referee gave while he was saluting the crowd.
I hope Ivan carries on doing those celebrations
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