loupowell52
Robert Lachowicz
Grape Aficionado
Posts: 444
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Post by loupowell52 on Mar 21, 2023 14:32:13 GMT
My affiliation to the ice hockey in Nottingham is towards the on-ice product. I really am not interested in the "social media" side of things, which, by the way I don't think is anything special. Other EIHL clubs, some with far lower budgets, put out superior offerings. We are simply a shambles.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Mar 21, 2023 15:01:10 GMT
Pasha is just a lackey and I’m not convinced he’s even doing that side very well. St Patrick’s day for pity’s sake! He is now, I think he was sold the job on the basis he would have control of most things, I hazard a guess that's been a load of bull and things haven't quite panned out as expected. If that was the case then why is finance Freddie in the office watching where the pennies are going for daddy. And yet he is still there. Not a lot of ambition
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2023 15:13:40 GMT
What Freddie knows about running a hockey team you could put on the back of a postage stamp!
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 178
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Post by meadow on Mar 21, 2023 16:25:16 GMT
I realise the thread has gone off on a (relevant) tangent, but IMHO CN is a decent enough coach, whether he's the right coach to carry on next season is another matter entirely. He sounds both defeated and at a distance whenever I listen to post game interviews, which suggests he's not invested long term, or is just sick of trying to get blood out of stone with this roster.
Re the profitability of panthers, I said in another thread that panthers are like a rental house with a long term tenant to me, landlord doesn't particularly care as long theres some yield coming in year on year and either cuts costs or skimps on repairs according to that years turnover.
I'm sure if you're a businessman having panthers in your portfolio would be a nice earner, reasonable core crowds, sell-outs the umpteen times steelers show up, tell the faithful that theres a wage cap in place and you're spending to it, even though any reasonable eyeball test against comparable teams would show that not to be the case, show your face (or not this year) and duck the flak when the limitations you've put in place come home to roost, drum up some excitement for ST time, rinse repeat
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Post by awooga on Mar 21, 2023 17:33:16 GMT
I'm sure if you're a businessman having panthers in your portfolio would be a nice earner, reasonable core crowds, sell-outs the umpteen times steelers show up, tell the faithful that theres a wage cap in place and you're spending to it, even though any reasonable eyeball test against comparable teams would show that not to be the case, show your face (or not this year) and duck the flak when the limitations you've put in place come home to roost, drum up some excitement for ST time, rinse repeat. Im still not convinced on this idea that its a massive moneyspinner. A small sheds rent will reflect what it is. Having a big venue like Panthers might be great whilst its full, but its expensive the rest of the time when the Steelers arent in town. I would imagine that all the expensive food and beverage money goes to the stadium too rather than the teams coffers. We will never really know the true operating costs as Companies House for SMEs will only reveal a limited balance sheet. Having looked up what I believe to be the trading company, the 1m net worth position is greatly inflated by 750k of intangible assets on the balance sheet (which can only really be goodwill, albeit its not being amortised). Theres not much profit being carried over, and cash seems to be being maintained. We dont know how much (if any) remuneration is being taken out by the owners, but I really doubt its sufficient to warrant criticism. The complaint really is on the ice where recruitment has been poor. Going back to the main subject of "coach" - would Myers be a potential future coach, perhaps with a director of hockey above to assist? Seems that a lot of coaches have played at this level and know what is required. Certainly been around long enough to know people in the game. I dont know if he is coach material, or if he would want it, but would that be an option?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,374
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Post by iginla on Mar 21, 2023 18:50:52 GMT
I'm sure if you're a businessman having panthers in your portfolio would be a nice earner, reasonable core crowds, sell-outs the umpteen times steelers show up, tell the faithful that theres a wage cap in place and you're spending to it, even though any reasonable eyeball test against comparable teams would show that not to be the case, show your face (or not this year) and duck the flak when the limitations you've put in place come home to roost, drum up some excitement for ST time, rinse repeat. Im still not convinced on this idea that its a massive moneyspinner. A small sheds rent will reflect what it is. Having a big venue like Panthers might be great whilst its full, but its expensive the rest of the time when the Steelers arent in town. I would imagine that all the expensive food and beverage money goes to the stadium too rather than the teams coffers. We will never really know the true operating costs as Companies House for SMEs will only reveal a limited balance sheet. Having looked up what I believe to be the trading company, the 1m net worth position is greatly inflated by 750k of intangible assets on the balance sheet (which can only really be goodwill, albeit its not being amortised). Theres not much profit being carried over, and cash seems to be being maintained. We dont know how much (if any) remuneration is being taken out by the owners, but I really doubt its sufficient to warrant criticism. The complaint really is on the ice where recruitment has been poor. Going back to the main subject of "coach" - would Myers be a potential future coach, perhaps with a director of hockey above to assist? Seems that a lot of coaches have played at this level and know what is required. Certainly been around long enough to know people in the game. I dont know if he is coach material, or if he would want it, but would that be an option? Take two teams,an arena team and a little un, say Panthers and Manchester. They both have to bring in,house,provide equipment, cars and coach travel etc etc for the same amount of players therefore the those team costs are going to be very similar for both teams. One team will be max player budget ie. £12.5k a week,the other likely min budget £8k a week. The only other cost that should really differ much is the cost of rink hire. However one team gets nearly 5000 per game through the doors and the other only about 1500. One team therefore coins in well over £2 million a year whilst the other not even £750k. And that’s just on tickets alone before you even start with all the other avenue streams which are massively in the arena teams favour. At the end of the day look where those two teams are though....that really shouldn’t be happening.
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 178
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Post by meadow on Mar 21, 2023 19:00:49 GMT
Im still not convinced on this idea that its a massive moneyspinner. A small sheds rent will reflect what it is. Having a big venue like Panthers might be great whilst its full, but its expensive the rest of the time when the Steelers arent in town. I would imagine that all the expensive food and beverage money goes to the stadium too rather than the teams coffers. We will never really know the true operating costs as Companies House for SMEs will only reveal a limited balance sheet. Having looked up what I believe to be the trading company, the 1m net worth position is greatly inflated by 750k of intangible assets on the balance sheet (which can only really be goodwill, albeit its not being amortised). Theres not much profit being carried over, and cash seems to be being maintained. We dont know how much (if any) remuneration is being taken out by the owners, but I really doubt its sufficient to warrant criticism. The complaint really is on the ice where recruitment has been poor. Going back to the main subject of "coach" - would Myers be a potential future coach, perhaps with a director of hockey above to assist? Seems that a lot of coaches have played at this level and know what is required. Certainly been around long enough to know people in the game. I dont know if he is coach material, or if he would want it, but would that be an option? I used to know the rental figure that the NIC charged the panthers, but it escapes me now. Lets say 15k per night (it was thereabouts), at that figure you need 1000 seats sold at an average ticket cost of £15 to break even on the night. Now that obviously doesn't figure in the multitude of other costs associated with the team, nor season ticket seats already purchased, but with crowd numbers between 3500-6000 theres clearly potential for money to be made.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that NB and his Bermuda pals are making out like bandits here, what I'm saying is that panthers are an asset with a nice steady yield that is managed prudently, and largely at the expense of on-ice success, to deliver that yield above all else.
If this wasn't the case NB wouldn't have kept hold of the club for close to 25 years
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Post by awooga on Mar 21, 2023 19:06:27 GMT
There’s no way there’s 5k there every week. If capacity is 6500 then there was less than half in vs Blaze recently.
Add in that the blocks 11 and 18 are usually full of comps, the income is much less.
My cheapo seats were behind the goal rather than corners, showing that demand was worse than usual.
Rink costs must be horrendous. Paying rent on a Porsche when a Fiat would do with poor attendances.
To have a full roster, wages must be similar? Player’s salaries are pretty poor for a professional sport.
I agree that with undoubtedly more income the on ice product should be better.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,374
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Post by iginla on Mar 21, 2023 20:36:08 GMT
There’s no way there’s 5k there every week. If capacity is 6500 then there was less than half in vs Blaze recently. Add in that the blocks 11 and 18 are usually full of comps, the income is much less. My cheapo seats were behind the goal rather than corners, showing that demand was worse than usual. Rink costs must be horrendous. Paying rent on a Porsche when a Fiat would do with poor attendances. To have a full roster, wages must be similar? Player’s salaries are pretty poor for a professional sport. I agree that with undoubtedly more income the on ice product should be better. Last season 2021/22 Panthers averaged 4740 according to EURO hockey attendances, which was the 27th highest average attendance in Europe. In the EIHL news article 8th Feb 2023 the Panthers are apparently averaging 400 more than last season therefore this seasons average is supposedly 5140.
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Post by wgray on Mar 21, 2023 22:02:24 GMT
There’s no way there’s 5k there every week. If capacity is 6500 then there was less than half in vs Blaze recently. Add in that the blocks 11 and 18 are usually full of comps, the income is much less. My cheapo seats were behind the goal rather than corners, showing that demand was worse than usual. Rink costs must be horrendous. Paying rent on a Porsche when a Fiat would do with poor attendances. To have a full roster, wages must be similar? Player’s salaries are pretty poor for a professional sport. I agree that with undoubtedly more income the on ice product should be better. Last season 2021/22 Panthers averaged 4740 according to EURO hockey attendances, which was the 27th highest average attendance in Europe. In the EIHL news article 8th Feb 2023 the Panthers are apparently averaging 400 more than last season therefore this seasons average is supposedly 5140. I would say that our crowds have been up this season compared to last. Going off at a tangent to the thread, I’ll never understand why the likes of Fife, Dundee and Manchester don’t bring in players who are keen to drop the gloves. They’re unlikely to compete for the league, at least get people through the door with something else
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Post by blackandgold73 on Mar 21, 2023 22:44:33 GMT
There’s no way there’s 5k there every week. If capacity is 6500 then there was less than half in vs Blaze recently. Add in that the blocks 11 and 18 are usually full of comps, the income is much less. My cheapo seats were behind the goal rather than corners, showing that demand was worse than usual. Rink costs must be horrendous. Paying rent on a Porsche when a Fiat would do with poor attendances. To have a full roster, wages must be similar? Player’s salaries are pretty poor for a professional sport. I agree that with undoubtedly more income the on ice product should be better. Last season 2021/22 Panthers averaged 4740 according to EURO hockey attendances, which was the 27th highest average attendance in Europe. In the EIHL news article 8th Feb 2023 the Panthers are apparently averaging 400 more than last season therefore this seasons average is supposedly 5140. League website currently has it as 5130 for the season so you're bang on the nose www.eliteleague.co.uk/team/12-nottingham-panthers/team-stats?id_season=36
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,374
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Post by iginla on Mar 21, 2023 23:10:30 GMT
Last season 2021/22 Panthers averaged 4740 according to EURO hockey attendances, which was the 27th highest average attendance in Europe. In the EIHL news article 8th Feb 2023 the Panthers are apparently averaging 400 more than last season therefore this seasons average is supposedly 5140. League website currently has it as 5130 for the season so you're bang on the nose www.eliteleague.co.uk/team/12-nottingham-panthers/team-stats?id_season=36Does seem rather high given some of the really low crowds, but I guess when about 25% of your games are against the Steelers and they also count ST people who aren’t there it does rather cloud your judgement.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Mar 22, 2023 1:09:04 GMT
Does seem rather high given some of the really low crowds, but I guess when about 25% of your games are against the Steelers and they also count ST people who aren’t there it does rather cloud your judgement. Season tickets and sponsors and unless they have moved the sponsor’s allocations I’ve not seen any this season for the first time ever around us
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