iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Mar 16, 2023 18:20:54 GMT
Before we sign any players we need to get the coaching situation sorted Will be the same as this year unless Corey has a massive change of heart. Oh noooo. 🙈🙄
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 18:24:38 GMT
So like I said don't expect much of a improvement next year folks.. you've been warned
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Mar 16, 2023 18:34:25 GMT
Will be the same as this year unless Corey has a massive change of heart. Oh noooo. 🙈🙄 I have to agree with you Iggy, I’d be disappointed if we did go with Corey. I appreciate he’s come in when we needed him and he’s tried to turn our results round but I feel we need to go in a different direction. Corey’s got nothing left to achieve or prove in Nottingham, for the clubs sake I think they’d be better bringing in either someone from within the league who’s got a point to prove or someone from outside the league who has experience of winning titles. For Corey’s sake it’d be great for him to be successful with another team
|
|
|
Post by Bagheera on Mar 16, 2023 18:54:37 GMT
The theory of an experienced coach from another land always sounds appealing but we've tried that approach twice now and it's been a disaster(Im going to stay clear of the Panthers culture on this topic for now, although I do think it's the biggest problem). A big chunk of trophies in the EIHL era have been won by players who transitioned in to coaches after playing EIHL for a few years first. I know we often think player coaches are a cheap option but it just appears to work. The problem is of course that we dont have anybody worth investing in for that role at this time. Perhaps something to look at some time soon. Unless there is a top end player at another club who would be looking at that role.
For me I think the best we can hope for is Pete Russell. Some EIHL experience, if he comes he already knows what to expect from Black and he will have good rapour with the Brits. I'd certainly take him over Corey.
|
|
|
Post by awooga on Mar 16, 2023 19:04:03 GMT
How does this usually work, and what’s the timing?
Are all players on a single season contract?
Are they all free to talk to other clubs now?
Do they actually publicly announce any retained / released lists?
I note that season tickets cease to be on sale at the end of June. You’d have thought a fair amount of business would aim to be done prior to that in order to give the fans some hope / excitement for the season ahead.
You’d expect a decision on the coach early doors in order that they can be involved in the re-signing / recruitment process. Incoming players would need to buy into what the coach’s plans are.
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Mar 16, 2023 19:09:57 GMT
How does this usually work, and what’s the timing? Are all players on a single season contract? Are they all free to talk to other clubs now? Do they actually publicly announce any retained / released lists? I note that season tickets cease to be on sale at the end of June. You’d have thought a fair amount of business would aim to be done prior to that in order to give the fans some hope / excitement for the season ahead. You’d expect a decision on the coach early doors in order that they can be involved in the re-signing / recruitment process. Incoming players would need to buy into what the coach’s plans are. Before the season ticket deadline - outright lies and total fairytale BS Post deadline - the reality of yet another Panthers season sinks in All Panthers contracts are written on tissue paper and most players are talking to other teams before getting on the plane to fly here
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Mar 16, 2023 19:11:26 GMT
The theory of an experienced coach from another land always sounds appealing but we've tried that approach twice now and it's been a disaster(Im going to stay clear of the Panthers culture on this topic for now, although I do think it's the biggest problem). A big chunk of trophies in the EIHL era have been won by players who transitioned in to coaches after playing EIHL for a few years first. I know we often think player coaches are a cheap option but it just appears to work. The problem is of course that we dont have anybody worth investing in for that role at this time. Perhaps something to look at some time soon. Unless there is a top end player at another club who would be looking at that role. For me I think the best we can hope for is Pete Russell. Some EIHL experience, if he comes he already knows what to expect from Black and he will have good rapour with the Brits. I'd certainly take him over Corey. I would rather have Paws than Russell
|
|
|
Post by messier1851 on Mar 16, 2023 19:15:57 GMT
How does this usually work, and what’s the timing? Are all players on a single season contract? Are they all free to talk to other clubs now? Do they actually publicly announce any retained / released lists? I note that season tickets cease to be on sale at the end of June. You’d have thought a fair amount of business would aim to be done prior to that in order to give the fans some hope / excitement for the season ahead. You’d expect a decision on the coach early doors in order that they can be involved in the re-signing / recruitment process. Incoming players would need to buy into what the coach’s plans are. In past off-season breaks it tends to be a few Brits re-sign early and maybe a handful of returning players in the run up the season ticket deadline. Any new faces tend to arrive later on once the season in North America has finished and players have assessed their options. Obviously having a coach in place helps this process hugely, if you're still looking for a coach when players start coming on to the market you're on the back foot from square one.
|
|
|
Post by samjohnson345 on Mar 16, 2023 19:18:14 GMT
How does this usually work, and what’s the timing? Are all players on a single season contract? Are they all free to talk to other clubs now? Do they actually publicly announce any retained / released lists? I note that season tickets cease to be on sale at the end of June. You’d have thought a fair amount of business would aim to be done prior to that in order to give the fans some hope / excitement for the season ahead. You’d expect a decision on the coach early doors in order that they can be involved in the re-signing / recruitment process. Incoming players would need to buy into what the coach’s plans are. In past off-season breaks it tends to be a few Brits re-sign early and maybe a handful of returning players in the run up the season ticket deadline. Any new faces tend to arrive later on once the season in North America has finished and players have assessed their options. Obviously having a coach in place helps this process hugely, if you're still looking for a coach when players start coming on to the market you're on the back foot from square one. The final paragraph is absolutely correct…we lost out on Brendan Connolly as a result of this when he signed for Sheffield.
|
|
|
Post by Bagheera on Mar 16, 2023 19:25:59 GMT
03-04 - Sheffield - Mike Blaisdell 04-05 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 05-06 - Belfast - Ed Courtenay 06-07 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 07-08 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 08-09 - Sheffield - Dave Matsos 09-10 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 10-11 - Sheffield - Ben Simon 11-12 - Belfast - Doug Christiansen 12-13 - Nottingham - Corey Neilson 13-14 - Belfast - Paul Adey 14-15 - Sheffield - Gerard Adams 15-16 - Sheffield - Paul Thompson 16-17 - Cardiff - Andrew Lord 17-18 - Cardiff - Andrew Lord 18-19 - Belfast - Adam Keefe 21-22 - Belfast - Adam Keefe
With the exception of Ben Simon every single title winner had previous experience of playing in this country prior to winning the league and he was player coach the season he did. O.K Tommo didn't have much of a playing career but he's a little different being English and coming up through the game here.
Whislt I know that the reaility is the league winners will always come from a certain few clubs thus making the pool small,its quite clear that going trusted EIHL/ISL experience works.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,243
|
Post by Yotes on Mar 16, 2023 20:10:09 GMT
I'd be perfectly happy with a player coach, if we went the Steelers route and signed someone like Ben Simon to do it, at the end of a strong playing career looking to transition to coaching.
We'd probably give it to some old plodder though.
|
|
|
Post by messier1851 on Mar 16, 2023 20:25:50 GMT
Complete reboot required. Great arena, amazingly loyal fanbase, we shouldn't have any problem attracting and retaining good players. Yet our Brit pack wouldn't look out of place in the NIHL and our reverse Midas touch with import signings has now been going on for many a year.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Mar 16, 2023 20:41:58 GMT
The theory of an experienced coach from another land always sounds appealing but we've tried that approach twice now and it's been a disaster(Im going to stay clear of the Panthers culture on this topic for now, although I do think it's the biggest problem). A big chunk of trophies in the EIHL era have been won by players who transitioned in to coaches after playing EIHL for a few years first. I know we often think player coaches are a cheap option but it just appears to work. The problem is of course that we dont have anybody worth investing in for that role at this time. Perhaps something to look at some time soon. Unless there is a top end player at another club who would be looking at that role. For me I think the best we can hope for is Pete Russell. Some EIHL experience, if he comes he already knows what to expect from Black and he will have good rapour with the Brits. I'd certainly take him over Corey. From that Clan interview Black did a couple of months ago where he claimed their club was in a “fantastic position” I wouldn’t give Pete Russell a snowballs chance in hell of ever coaching a Neil Black team again. It was pretty obvious Russell was not flavour of the month with NB when his name was mentioned.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Mar 16, 2023 20:44:30 GMT
How does this usually work, and what’s the timing? Are all players on a single season contract? Are they all free to talk to other clubs now? Do they actually publicly announce any retained / released lists? I note that season tickets cease to be on sale at the end of June. You’d have thought a fair amount of business would aim to be done prior to that in order to give the fans some hope / excitement for the season ahead. You’d expect a decision on the coach early doors in order that they can be involved in the re-signing / recruitment process. Incoming players would need to buy into what the coach’s plans are. Before the season ticket deadline - outright lies and total fairytale BS Post deadline - the reality of yet another Panthers season sinks in All Panthers contracts are written on tissue paper and most players are talking to other teams before getting on the plane to fly here And he’s not really joking here either as you’ll come to find out in time.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Mar 16, 2023 22:20:00 GMT
03-04 - Sheffield - Mike Blaisdell 04-05 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 05-06 - Belfast - Ed Courtenay 06-07 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 07-08 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 08-09 - Sheffield - Dave Matsos 09-10 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 10-11 - Sheffield - Ben Simon 11-12 - Belfast - Doug Christiansen 12-13 - Nottingham - Corey Neilson 13-14 - Belfast - Paul Adey 14-15 - Sheffield - Gerard Adams 15-16 - Sheffield - Paul Thompson 16-17 - Cardiff - Andrew Lord 17-18 - Cardiff - Andrew Lord 18-19 - Belfast - Adam Keefe 21-22 - Belfast - Adam Keefe With the exception of Ben Simon every single title winner had previous experience of playing in this country prior to winning the league and he was player coach the season he did. O.K Tommo didn't have much of a playing career but he's a little different being English and coming up through the game here. Whislt I know that the reaility is the league winners will always come from a certain few clubs thus making the pool small,its quite clear that going trusted EIHL/ISL experience works. That is an impressive stat list of ex EIHL players being league winning coaches however.... Bearing in mind there are realistically only five clubs who had a genuine chance of winning it in those 16 years, who are the NON ex EIHL players who as coaches failed to win it in that time. I don’t think there are many. Rich Chernomaz Gary Graham Tom Barrasso Chuck Weber (but he won play offs) Jarrod Skalde There haven’t been many have there, which puts rather a different complexion on the stat.
|
|
|
Post by jd on Mar 16, 2023 22:52:32 GMT
Dennis Maxwell? Wasn’t he in charge at the Steelers?
Unless NB goes away, not a lot will change in Pantherland.
Brits is a massive issue for me. Ours just aren’t right and need a lot of work to change that.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Mar 16, 2023 23:07:02 GMT
Dennis Maxwell? Wasn’t he in charge at the Steelers? Unless NB goes away, not a lot will change in Pantherland. Brits is a massive issue for me. Ours just aren’t right and need a lot of work to change that. Maxwell was a player/coach at Steelers for a very short spell until there was found to be a problem with his coaching papers or something. But he was an ex EIHL player so he doesn’t count.
|
|
Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 732
|
Post by Joe on Mar 16, 2023 23:52:22 GMT
If Black manages to sell the Clan do we think that’ll have much of an impact on us going forward?
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Mar 17, 2023 0:39:23 GMT
If Black manages to sell the Clan do we think that’ll have much of an impact on us going forward? No because of the pathetically low wage cap. If there was no cap then different kettle of fish.
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Mar 17, 2023 1:51:55 GMT
Points Comparison of Brit Packs (top scorer in brackets): Giants - 133 points (Conway 79 points) Devils - 72 points (Waller 25 points) Blaze - 65 points (Venus 27 points) Stars - 18 points (Garrigan and Inglis 6 points) Flyers - 14 Points (McKenzie 7 points) Clan - 42 Points (Cownie 23 points) Flames - 72 Points (O'Connor 41 points) Storm - 19 Points (Hazeldine 11 points) Panthers - 59 Points (Myers 24 points) Steelers - 84 Points (Dowd 38 Points)
Among Brits our best Scorer Myers is tied in 6th place with Lewis Hook. However Hook has played 20 less games. If he played the entire year he'd be 2nd among Brits, meaning Belfast would have the top 2 scoring Brits. Conway alone is more productive than our entire Brit pack, but the rest of their Brit pack is also on a par points wise, while also having a very capable netminder in Whistle.
|
|
|
Post by Bagheera on Mar 17, 2023 6:42:37 GMT
03-04 - Sheffield - Mike Blaisdell 04-05 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 05-06 - Belfast - Ed Courtenay 06-07 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 07-08 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 08-09 - Sheffield - Dave Matsos 09-10 - Coventry - Paul Thompson 10-11 - Sheffield - Ben Simon 11-12 - Belfast - Doug Christiansen 12-13 - Nottingham - Corey Neilson 13-14 - Belfast - Paul Adey 14-15 - Sheffield - Gerard Adams 15-16 - Sheffield - Paul Thompson 16-17 - Cardiff - Andrew Lord 17-18 - Cardiff - Andrew Lord 18-19 - Belfast - Adam Keefe 21-22 - Belfast - Adam Keefe With the exception of Ben Simon every single title winner had previous experience of playing in this country prior to winning the league and he was player coach the season he did. O.K Tommo didn't have much of a playing career but he's a little different being English and coming up through the game here. Whislt I know that the reaility is the league winners will always come from a certain few clubs thus making the pool small,its quite clear that going trusted EIHL/ISL experience works. That is an impressive stat list of ex EIHL players being league winning coaches however.... Bearing in mind there are realistically only five clubs who had a genuine chance of winning it in those 16 years, who are the NON ex EIHL players who as coaches failed to win it in that time. I don’t think there are many. Rich Chernomaz Gary Graham Tom Barrasso Chuck Weber (but he won play offs) Jarrod Skalde There haven’t been many have there, which puts rather a different complexion on the stat. Well you can probably add Aaron Fox to that list. 🤣 But yes that's pretty much what I said. There may not be a big pool of non EIHL playing coaches come here, but it's never really worked. In Panthers case it's been an absoloute disaster both times. I was really just using it to suggest I wouldn't mind a player coach and if we went that route it shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing or the cheap option. Although Id imagine most of the guys that have had success as player coach had a good GM(whatever similar roles are out there) to support them in building a team. Are there any players out there in the EIHL, perhaps doing asst coach roles at the bigger clubs at the minute worth a punt?
|
|
|
Post by messier1851 on Mar 17, 2023 10:18:51 GMT
Points Comparison of Brit Packs (top scorer in brackets): Giants - 133 points (Conway 79 points) Devils - 72 points (Waller 25 points) Blaze - 65 points (Venus 27 points) Stars - 18 points (Garrigan and Inglis 6 points) Flyers - 14 Points (McKenzie 7 points) Clan - 42 Points (Cownie 23 points) Flames - 72 Points (O'Connor 41 points) Storm - 19 Points (Hazeldine 11 points) Panthers - 59 Points (Myers 24 points) Steelers - 84 Points (Dowd 38 Points) Among Brits our best Scorer Myers is tied in 6th place with Lewis Hook. However Hook has played 20 less games. If he played the entire year he'd be 2nd among Brits, meaning Belfast would have the top 2 scoring Brits. Conway alone is more productive than our entire Brit pack, but the rest of their Brit pack is also on a par points wise, while also having a very capable netminder in Whistle. The worrying thing about the Brits situation is how do we upgrade what we currently have? You'd have to assume that Betteridge, Perlini and Tetlow all left for a reason and might not be options in the future. I know Tetlow wasn't held in the highest esteem but he is a GB international. You'd also have to assume there is no chance you can tempt Conway, Hook, Dowd or O'Connor away from their current clubs. Cardiff have a settled pack with Waller, Duggan and Davies who are all useful pieces, Waller and Duggan are both mid-20s as well so could be role players for a number of years for them. Even the younger Brits towards the top of the NIHL scoring charts aren't likely to be options for us, whatever went on with Kieran Brown during the Elite Series means he's unlikely to pull on the black and gold anytime soon. Cole Shudra is on a two-way with Sheffield, as is Alex Graham. Sean Norris has a two-way with Belfast. Are we just going to sit tight and hope that Cade Neilson decides to come here when he finishes college in three/four years? Ferrera was the only potential game changer out there and that hasn't worked out for us, but you'd wager if he ended up in Cardiff or Sheffield that he'd find his scoring touch again. I realise that lack of Brits are only part of the problem, but it's rare that you win anything without a decent core of British players. I'm not suggesting that Clarke, Myers, Weaver and Lee were more important than Ling and Kowalski, but you need a balance.
|
|
float
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 182
|
Post by float on Mar 17, 2023 11:32:48 GMT
That is an impressive stat list of ex EIHL players being league winning coaches however.... Bearing in mind there are realistically only five clubs who had a genuine chance of winning it in those 16 years, who are the NON ex EIHL players who as coaches failed to win it in that time. I don’t think there are many. Rich Chernomaz Gary Graham Tom Barrasso Chuck Weber (but he won play offs) Jarrod Skalde There haven’t been many have there, which puts rather a different complexion on the stat. Well you can probably add Aaron Fox to that list. 🤣 But yes that's pretty much what I said. There may not be a big pool of non EIHL playing coaches come here, but it's never really worked. In Panthers case it's been an absoloute disaster both times. I was really just using it to suggest I wouldn't mind a player coach and if we went that route it shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing or the cheap option. Although Id imagine most of the guys that have had success as player coach had a good GM(whatever similar roles are out there) to support them in building a team. Are there any players out there in the EIHL, perhaps doing asst coach roles at the bigger clubs at the minute worth a punt? Totally agree. Also worth noting that our best run for the league title since 2013 came with Tim Wallace at the helm in the season cut short by covid, again someone with EIHL knowledge and experience. Let's not forget, he won us the Elite Series I know I'm probably in a minority here, but unless we can lure a stud of a coach with a huge winning history, I'd rather us stick with with someone with league experience than test the waters again on a totally new guy.
|
|
Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 732
|
Post by Joe on Mar 17, 2023 12:02:28 GMT
Points Comparison of Brit Packs (top scorer in brackets): Giants - 133 points (Conway 79 points) Devils - 72 points (Waller 25 points) Blaze - 65 points (Venus 27 points) Stars - 18 points (Garrigan and Inglis 6 points) Flyers - 14 Points (McKenzie 7 points) Clan - 42 Points (Cownie 23 points) Flames - 72 Points (O'Connor 41 points) Storm - 19 Points (Hazeldine 11 points) Panthers - 59 Points (Myers 24 points) Steelers - 84 Points (Dowd 38 Points) Among Brits our best Scorer Myers is tied in 6th place with Lewis Hook. However Hook has played 20 less games. If he played the entire year he'd be 2nd among Brits, meaning Belfast would have the top 2 scoring Brits. Conway alone is more productive than our entire Brit pack, but the rest of their Brit pack is also on a par points wise, while also having a very capable netminder in Whistle. The worrying thing about the Brits situation is how do we upgrade what we currently have? You'd have to assume that Betteridge, Perlini and Tetlow all left for a reason and might not be options in the future. I know Tetlow wasn't held in the highest esteem but he is a GB international. You'd also have to assume there is no chance you can tempt Conway, Hook, Dowd or O'Connor away from their current clubs. Cardiff have a settled pack with Waller, Duggan and Davies who are all useful pieces, Waller and Duggan are both mid-20s as well so could be role players for a number of years for them. Even the younger Brits towards the top of the NIHL scoring charts aren't likely to be options for us, whatever went on with Kieran Brown during the Elite Series means he's unlikely to pull on the black and gold anytime soon. Cole Shudra is on a two-way with Sheffield, as is Alex Graham. Sean Norris has a two-way with Belfast. Are we just going to sit tight and hope that Cade Neilson decides to come here when he finishes college in three/four years? Ferrera was the only potential game changer out there and that hasn't worked out for us, but you'd wager if he ended up in Cardiff or Sheffield that he'd find his scoring touch again. I realise that lack of Brits are only part of the problem, but it's rare that you win anything without a decent core of British players. I'm not suggesting that Clarke, Myers, Weaver and Lee were more important than Ling and Kowalski, but you need a balance. Based on rumours at the time it sounded as though Perlini and Betteridge didn’t particularly like the way they were being treated by the club so if that’s true then it’s possible that relationship could be fixed with Pacha as GM. Given the uncertainty surrounding Myers’ future I think we have to prioritise getting the most out of Ferrara should he return. According to Belfast fans it sounds like Hook is a bit of a bad egg so I’d avoid him. As for the rest of our Brit pack I think we’re just waiting/hoping for Hopkins and Hazeldine to grow into full time brits. Bar Cade and Logan I’m not aware of any other junior players that we should be looking to sign but I’m sure there are others with more knowledge than me of players who we should keep an eye on as they rise through the junior ranks
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Mar 17, 2023 12:22:26 GMT
Points Comparison of Brit Packs (top scorer in brackets): Giants - 133 points (Conway 79 points) Devils - 72 points (Waller 25 points) Blaze - 65 points (Venus 27 points) Stars - 18 points (Garrigan and Inglis 6 points) Flyers - 14 Points (McKenzie 7 points) Clan - 42 Points (Cownie 23 points) Flames - 72 Points (O'Connor 41 points) Storm - 19 Points (Hazeldine 11 points) Panthers - 59 Points (Myers 24 points) Steelers - 84 Points (Dowd 38 Points) Among Brits our best Scorer Myers is tied in 6th place with Lewis Hook. However Hook has played 20 less games. If he played the entire year he'd be 2nd among Brits, meaning Belfast would have the top 2 scoring Brits. Conway alone is more productive than our entire Brit pack, but the rest of their Brit pack is also on a par points wise, while also having a very capable netminder in Whistle. The worrying thing about the Brits situation is how do we upgrade what we currently have? You'd have to assume that Betteridge, Perlini and Tetlow all left for a reason and might not be options in the future. I know Tetlow wasn't held in the highest esteem but he is a GB international. You'd also have to assume there is no chance you can tempt Conway, Hook, Dowd or O'Connor away from their current clubs. Cardiff have a settled pack with Waller, Duggan and Davies who are all useful pieces, Waller and Duggan are both mid-20s as well so could be role players for a number of years for them. Even the younger Brits towards the top of the NIHL scoring charts aren't likely to be options for us, whatever went on with Kieran Brown during the Elite Series means he's unlikely to pull on the black and gold anytime soon. Cole Shudra is on a two-way with Sheffield, as is Alex Graham. Sean Norris has a two-way with Belfast. Are we just going to sit tight and hope that Cade Neilson decides to come here when he finishes college in three/four years? Ferrera was the only potential game changer out there and that hasn't worked out for us, but you'd wager if he ended up in Cardiff or Sheffield that he'd find his scoring touch again. I realise that lack of Brits are only part of the problem, but it's rare that you win anything without a decent core of British players. I'm not suggesting that Clarke, Myers, Weaver and Lee were more important than Ling and Kowalski, but you need a balance. Hazeldine is better than Tetlow now
|
|