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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 30, 2023 9:41:49 GMT
Isn't Pacha the man who apologised to the fans earlier in the season regarding the crap that we were having to put up with? The silence now is deafening. It's got worse but the cash register is doing just fine
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Post by Spooks on Jan 30, 2023 9:50:45 GMT
Isn't Pacha the man who apologised to the fans earlier in the season regarding the crap that we were having to put up with? The silence now is deafening. It's got worse but the cash register is doing just fine The eternal panthers conundrum bums on seats > than success no matter what, got to keep the higher ups supply of fine wine and caviar coming in
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Post by bobness on Jan 30, 2023 10:15:21 GMT
So what’s your point? Should we have not sacked GG even though that’s something you were begging for or are you somehow trying to lay this at Neilson’s door, because I personally don’t see any coach getting much more out of this team than Neilson has done and I think it’s a tad harsh on him considering he’s working with a squad that is one of the worst we’ve ever had and it was signed by a different coach with a completely different style. Just pointing out the stats to make a comparison, which is something that’s done regularly by various people on here. Sorry if that is not allowed or you don’t like the results but it’s not my fault it doesn’t show what you’d like it to. For further comparison,with the roster changes one could argue Corey has a better team now than GG had,plus he’s got an assistant coach and and he’s certainly had a full roster most games where as under GG the team had a fair few injuries. All in all,you would have expected results to improve but they’ve somehow got even worse. That says to me that Corey isn’t the coach some people would have you believe. Well... In terms of man games lost to injury, I count GG as having 20, CN 36 so far. GG played 5 games at least 1 import short (4 x 1, 1 x 2) but 3 of those "man games" were due to suspensions. Arguing about the coach is, for this bunch of players, akin to arguing about whether the trumpets or the violins get to play as the Titanic sinks. Individually capable and successful players all, have proved that that doesn't mean it's necessarily a great team when you put them together. 2 coaches now cannot get it to work with any consistency. FWIW, a few players stunk the place out last night, but Hammond was all over the ice, his best game as a Panther for me, a constant threat.
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Post by samjohnson345 on Jan 30, 2023 10:28:06 GMT
Just pointing out the stats to make a comparison, which is something that’s done regularly by various people on here. Sorry if that is not allowed or you don’t like the results but it’s not my fault it doesn’t show what you’d like it to. For further comparison,with the roster changes one could argue Corey has a better team now than GG had,plus he’s got an assistant coach and and he’s certainly had a full roster most games where as under GG the team had a fair few injuries. All in all,you would have expected results to improve but they’ve somehow got even worse. That says to me that Corey isn’t the coach some people would have you believe. Well... In terms of man games lost to injury, I count GG as having 20, CN 36 so far. GG played 5 games at least 1 import short (4 x 1, 1 x 2) but 3 of those "man games" were due to suspensions. Arguing about the coach is, for this bunch of players, akin to arguing about whether the trumpets or the violins get to play as the Titanic sinks. Individually capable and successful players all, have proved that that doesn't mean it's necessarily a great team when you put them together. 2 coaches now cannot get it to work with any consistency. FWIW, a few players stunk the place out last night, but Hammond was all over the ice, his best game as a Panther for me, a constant threat. Completely agree re Hammond. Wanted to post the same but feared scorn given we only scored once all weekend etc. You could see his frustration skating off after certain chances weren’t buried. I thought he was excellent.
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Post by bobness on Jan 30, 2023 10:35:07 GMT
Well... In terms of man games lost to injury, I count GG as having 20, CN 36 so far. GG played 5 games at least 1 import short (4 x 1, 1 x 2) but 3 of those "man games" were due to suspensions. Arguing about the coach is, for this bunch of players, akin to arguing about whether the trumpets or the violins get to play as the Titanic sinks. Individually capable and successful players all, have proved that that doesn't mean it's necessarily a great team when you put them together. 2 coaches now cannot get it to work with any consistency. FWIW, a few players stunk the place out last night, but Hammond was all over the ice, his best game as a Panther for me, a constant threat. Completely agree re Hammond. Wanted to post the same but feared scorn given we only scored once all weekend etc. You could see his frustration skating off after certain chances weren’t buried. I thought he was excellent. Indeed, praising Hammond isn't a fashionable thing on here, but credit where it's due. Did he get MoM? Leader in a field of one for me.
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Post by sevcik on Jan 30, 2023 10:35:21 GMT
It's got worse but the cash register is doing just fine The eternal panthers conundrum bums on seats > than success no matter what, got to keep the higher ups supply of fine wine and caviar coming in And this season isn't this the first time a dispute has occurred between the then coach and a certain sponsor. Both times the club over the coach, even though what both coaches wanted would have benefitted the team on the ice. You'd think the club would back the coach especially as they apparently want to create a winning culture. But instead they chase the money. New CEO same modus operandi
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 30, 2023 10:50:10 GMT
Arguing about the coach is, for this bunch of players, akin to arguing about whether the trumpets or the violins get to play as the Titanic sinks. Individually capable and successful players all, have proved that that doesn't mean it's necessarily a great team when you put them together. 2 coaches now cannot get it to work with any consistency. Not much of a sample size for that conclusion. I would say neither coach being up to the task is just as likely a reason.
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Post by bobness on Jan 30, 2023 11:01:20 GMT
Arguing about the coach is, for this bunch of players, akin to arguing about whether the trumpets or the violins get to play as the Titanic sinks. Individually capable and successful players all, have proved that that doesn't mean it's necessarily a great team when you put them together. 2 coaches now cannot get it to work with any consistency. Not much of a sample size for that conclusion. I would say neither coach being up to the task is just as likely a reason. We may never really know, despite what we all may think, but the facts of the matter are pretty plain. A team of players we were all purring about in September are now in danger of being 7th, while Guildford (and all their relative (in)experience, as well as the (as almost everyone on here has him) defensive liability that is BOC) sit atop the league, with BOC at +17, while only 2 Panthers are a + of any description, let alone double figures... It's a tough game, being a Panthers fan.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 30, 2023 11:19:42 GMT
Completely agree re Hammond. Wanted to post the same but feared scorn given we only scored once all weekend etc. You could see his frustration skating off after certain chances weren’t buried. I thought he was excellent. Indeed, praising Hammond isn't a fashionable thing on here, but credit where it's due. Did he get MoM? Leader in a field of one for me. So if Hammond was so frustrated at all these gilt edged and grade A chances that players were missing,who were the guilty parties that were missing them ?
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Post by bobness on Jan 30, 2023 11:34:28 GMT
Indeed, praising Hammond isn't a fashionable thing on here, but credit where it's due. Did he get MoM? Leader in a field of one for me. So if Hammond was so frustrated at all these gilt edged and grade A chances that players were missing,who were the guilty parties that were missing them ? I'm not sure we had that many what you would call "great" chances. Rarely got Muse moving, he barely had to make a highlight reel save. Indecision when in what were good areas cost us greatly. Lots of shots, but that lead to lots of saves that Muse makes 999 times out of 1000.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 30, 2023 11:45:36 GMT
So if Hammond was so frustrated at all these gilt edged and grade A chances that players were missing,who were the guilty parties that were missing them ? I'm not sure we had that many what you would call "great" chances. Rarely got Muse moving, he barely had to make a highlight reel save. Indecision when in what were good areas cost us greatly. Lots of shots, but that lead to lots of saves that Muse makes 999 times out of 1000. So one could argue that coaches using missed grade A shots on goal was a bit of a thin excuse. Looking at the weekends two gamesheets it seems that Brady was by far the No1 guilty party,closely followed by Hammond, then Ferrara and Lindgren. That Brady/Hammond line is a liability,Brady was on the ice for all four goals conceded this weekend and Hammond for three of them. That says a lot !
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Post by Bagheera on Jan 30, 2023 11:52:24 GMT
Just in case anybody missed it,here are the % of league points won by each coach this season from the total available to them. Graham 43.3 % 13 points from 30 Neilson 42.8 % 18 points from 42 So what’s your point? Should we have not sacked GG even though that’s something you were begging for or are you somehow trying to lay this at Neilson’s door, because I personally don’t see any coach getting much more out of this team than Neilson has done and I think it’s a tad harsh on him considering he’s working with a squad that is one of the worst we’ve ever had and it was signed by a different coach with a completely different style. I dont really buy in to this Corey excusing. No it's not his team but if he is a superior coach to GG he should be able to get more out of this group. This group of players have shown they can beat Cardiff, Belfast(home and away), Sheffield and Guilford at some point. So there is a level of ability there. Even if they have to play above themselves to achieve those wins. A team who regularly loses games against the lesser teams, especially at home has issues that can be directly linked to a coaches ability to engage his team for those games. Whilst team Hollywood may have originated around a pair of skates there is a reason Coreys teams are perceived in that way. Turn up for the big games but cant be bothered to grind it out when its not the big show.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 30, 2023 12:17:23 GMT
So what’s your point? Should we have not sacked GG even though that’s something you were begging for or are you somehow trying to lay this at Neilson’s door, because I personally don’t see any coach getting much more out of this team than Neilson has done and I think it’s a tad harsh on him considering he’s working with a squad that is one of the worst we’ve ever had and it was signed by a different coach with a completely different style. I dont really buy in to this Corey excusing. No it's not his team but if he is a superior coach to GG he should be able to get more out of this group. This group of players have shown they can beat Cardiff, Belfast(home and away), Sheffield and Guilford at some point. So there is a level of ability there. Even if they have to play above themselves to achieve those wins. A team who regularly loses games against the lesser teams, especially at home has issues that can be directly linked to a coaches ability to engage his team for those games. Whilst team Hollywood may have originated around a pair of skates there is a reason Coreys teams are perceived in that way. Turn up for the big games but cant be bothered to grind it out when its not the big show. Spot on Baggy. Not only did Panthers manage to lose to two lowly teams this last weekend,but I’m pretty sure both of them were short benched too,especially Clan and no Orhvall for the Storm. I don’t think Corey even seems bothered this year, he certainly seems to do a fair amount of smiling and almost laughing his way through interviews even after a bad loss. Not a good look or what fans want to hear.
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Post by bobness on Jan 30, 2023 12:33:59 GMT
I'm not sure we had that many what you would call "great" chances. Rarely got Muse moving, he barely had to make a highlight reel save. Indecision when in what were good areas cost us greatly. Lots of shots, but that lead to lots of saves that Muse makes 999 times out of 1000. So one could argue that coaches using missed grade A shots on goal was a bit of a thin excuse. Looking at the weekends two gamesheets it seems that Brady was by far the No1 guilty party,closely followed by Hammond, then Ferrara and Lindgren. That Brady/Hammond line is a liability,Brady was on the ice for all four goals conceded this weekend and Hammond for three of them. That says a lot ! Well, it does and it doesn't. Look at the shotmap for yesterday, that looks like "shoot on sight" to me, rather than "get a grade A chance then shoot". Far too many of those shots are ones that goalies will save all day, if they see them. I'm very impressed that Puffer had a shot from behind the goal line, bearing in mind the definition of what a shot should be. Brady and Hammond have history as not the most + players, but given that only 2 Panthers are this season, it's hardly surprising neither are this year. Especially when you consider at even strength, Panthers have scored 70 but conceded 95 this season. What's remarkable is Welychka's performance. Just to play a straight bat, when 9 and 90 are on ice together and a goal is scored, both are -15 on the season. Attachments:
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Jan 30, 2023 14:42:55 GMT
So what’s your point? Should we have not sacked GG even though that’s something you were begging for or are you somehow trying to lay this at Neilson’s door, because I personally don’t see any coach getting much more out of this team than Neilson has done and I think it’s a tad harsh on him considering he’s working with a squad that is one of the worst we’ve ever had and it was signed by a different coach with a completely different style. I dont really buy in to this Corey excusing. No it's not his team but if he is a superior coach to GG he should be able to get more out of this group. This group of players have shown they can beat Cardiff, Belfast(home and away), Sheffield and Guilford at some point. So there is a level of ability there. Even if they have to play above themselves to achieve those wins. A team who regularly loses games against the lesser teams, especially at home has issues that can be directly linked to a coaches ability to engage his team for those games. Whilst team Hollywood may have originated around a pair of skates there is a reason Coreys teams are perceived in that way. Turn up for the big games but cant be bothered to grind it out when its not the big show. I’m not excusing Neilson because he’s definitely made some mistakes but I don’t think the fact that we’ve not managed to greatly improve should be a knock on his ability as a coach. I think this team will always be bad regardless of who we appointed to replace GG because ultimately the players are the ones making the mistakes that are costing us games. For example yesterday’s loss will be a negative on Neilson’s record but we dominated the Clan and that is Neilson’s plan in action but the fact we scored 1 goal from 53 shots and Dubeau not being tight enough on his post is ultimately what lost us the game
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 30, 2023 15:05:46 GMT
It's got worse but the cash register is doing just fine The eternal panthers conundrum bums on seats > than success no matter what, got to keep the higher ups supply of fine wine and caviar coming in Yet Belfast and Sheffield are selling enough more seats than we do to make a big dent in their wage bill. Panthers are crap because the owner has no interest apart from taking money out and he has no interest at all the fans.
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Post by kievthegreat on Jan 30, 2023 15:49:45 GMT
So one could argue that coaches using missed grade A shots on goal was a bit of a thin excuse. Looking at the weekends two gamesheets it seems that Brady was by far the No1 guilty party,closely followed by Hammond, then Ferrara and Lindgren. That Brady/Hammond line is a liability,Brady was on the ice for all four goals conceded this weekend and Hammond for three of them. That says a lot ! Well, it does and it doesn't. Look at the shotmap for yesterday, that looks like "shoot on sight" to me, rather than "get a grade A chance then shoot". Far too many of those shots are ones that goalies will save all day, if they see them. I'm very impressed that Puffer had a shot from behind the goal line, bearing in mind the definition of what a shot should be. Brady and Hammond have history as not the most + players, but given that only 2 Panthers are this season, it's hardly surprising neither are this year. Especially when you consider at even strength, Panthers have scored 70 but conceded 95 this season. What's remarkable is Welychka's performance. Just to play a straight bat, when 9 and 90 are on ice together and a goal is scored, both are -15 on the season. This! We didn't have nearly as many grade A chances as the shot count would leave you to believe. Look at Guildford, Giants, Devils and Steelers games and you see that they aren't taking 10+shots from against the boards. Belfast vs Sheffield (first game) and Giants have exactly what you want to see. Lots of shots right up in the crease and in an arc between the face-off dots. They also have a very clear funnel shape. www.eliteleague.co.uk/game/3691-bel-she/trackingLook at Storm vs Flyers as well. Storm are getting the same chape, some shots from deep, but you get the majority of the shots from those same areas, down low by the net and arcing across from the dots. Now yes, in this instance the Flyers are a bit less disciplined shotwise and get the win, but a much higher proportion of those shots are still in those higher percentage parts of the ice and 3 of their goals. www.eliteleague.co.uk/game/3804-fif-man/tracking
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Post by kievthegreat on Jan 30, 2023 15:53:28 GMT
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Post by Spooks on Jan 31, 2023 8:39:12 GMT
The eternal panthers conundrum bums on seats > than success no matter what, got to keep the higher ups supply of fine wine and caviar coming in Yet Belfast and Sheffield are selling enough more seats than we do to make a big dent in their wage bill. Panthers are crap because the owner has no interest apart from taking money out and he has no interest at all the fans. No argument from me on that one
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Post by Wolves 66 on Feb 1, 2023 13:41:54 GMT
Well, it does and it doesn't. Look at the shotmap for yesterday, that looks like "shoot on sight" to me, rather than "get a grade A chance then shoot". Far too many of those shots are ones that goalies will save all day, if they see them. I'm very impressed that Puffer had a shot from behind the goal line, bearing in mind the definition of what a shot should be. Brady and Hammond have history as not the most + players, but given that only 2 Panthers are this season, it's hardly surprising neither are this year. Especially when you consider at even strength, Panthers have scored 70 but conceded 95 this season. What's remarkable is Welychka's performance. Just to play a straight bat, when 9 and 90 are on ice together and a goal is scored, both are -15 on the season. This! We didn't have nearly as many grade A chances as the shot count would leave you to believe. Look at Guildford, Giants, Devils and Steelers games and you see that they aren't taking 10+shots from against the boards. Belfast vs Sheffield (first game) and Giants have exactly what you want to see. Lots of shots right up in the crease and in an arc between the face-off dots. They also have a very clear funnel shape. www.eliteleague.co.uk/game/3691-bel-she/trackingLook at Storm vs Flyers as well. Storm are getting the same chape, some shots from deep, but you get the majority of the shots from those same areas, down low by the net and arcing across from the dots. Now yes, in this instance the Flyers are a bit less disciplined shotwise and get the win, but a much higher proportion of those shots are still in those higher percentage parts of the ice and 3 of their goals. www.eliteleague.co.uk/game/3804-fif-man/trackingDoes this shot map mean that every single one of Panthers' shots were on target and saved by the keeper? None were wide and none were blocked?
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Feb 1, 2023 14:32:20 GMT
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Post by Wolves 66 on Feb 1, 2023 15:32:47 GMT
Thank you. That makes sense
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