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Post by lincspanther on May 24, 2021 13:11:06 GMT
As a relatively new supporter of the sport, can somebody explain why it is that Cardiff are able to spend so much more? Is it funds from the owner or have they a higher income than others currently?
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Post by texpef on May 24, 2021 13:17:31 GMT
Lincs... in simple terms their owners are millionaires who are in it for the glory of winning rather than making money from the club and also the rink do not charge rental so any money made is profit...
All in all adds up to alot of money spent on the players which other teams in the league cannot match...
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Pies
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Post by Pies on May 24, 2021 13:33:19 GMT
Lincs... in simple terms their owners are millionaires who are in it for the glory of winning rather than making money from the club and also the rink do not charge rental so any money made is profit... All in all adds up to alot of money spent on the players which other teams in the league cannot match... But also, when they get bored, the Devils will be in for a shock when their unsustainable model falls down.
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Jord v4
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Post by Jord v4 on May 24, 2021 13:45:36 GMT
As a relatively new supporter of the sport, can somebody explain why it is that Cardiff are able to spend so much more? Is it funds from the owner or have they a higher income than others currently? Think Chelsea/Man City in the Premier League. New money/plastic. Unsustainable for sure & potentially very detrimental to the rest of the league depending on how far the spending gap becomes.
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Jord v4
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Post by Jord v4 on May 24, 2021 14:06:25 GMT
Trouble is we don’t have a clue what team budgets are, it’s all just pure speculation. My speculation is that our budget has been between 3rd-4th in the league in the past. And on that note I think we should lock the thread 😂🙈 Just to add to this as well it isn't just speculation at all. Difficult as it may be for some to except there are posters who know way more about the EIHL set up than others. Some have ties to the past that still have merit whilst others have ties to actual matters now.
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Post by lincspanther on May 24, 2021 14:47:44 GMT
Jord and tex, thanks for the replies.
I see, it doesn't make for much of a level playing field then in that case but then I guess which sport does have.
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Post by wannabe2 on May 24, 2021 15:53:39 GMT
Lincs... in simple terms their owners are millionaires who are in it for the glory of winning rather than making money from the club and also the rink do not charge rental so any money made is profit... All in all adds up to alot of money spent on the players which other teams in the league cannot match... Massive load of tripe as usual , we don’t spend the biggest budget in the league fact,we do however have a superior skill when it’s comes to signing better players than other teams with similar budgets , put that with having 4 scholarship positions which is huge, and it’s true we don’t pay Icetime for our rink, thanks to the fans, plus the club don’t get ripped off by greedy owners. Many of our players stay for numerous seasons with it being a close knit club, giving us a advantage of players being together and understanding each other’s play, as opposed to others who swap and change every 5 mins due to poor recruitment and never getting much continuity. It’s not all about money sometimes it’s about being treated the right way and being content. Other folk won’t understand this at it don’t happen and never has at their clubs, which is their hangup and no one else’s. Stay Safe All.
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Jord v4
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Post by Jord v4 on May 24, 2021 16:19:02 GMT
Jord and tex, thanks for the replies. I see, it doesn't make for much of a level playing field then in that case but then I guess which sport does have. Exactly, when you have no official budget constraints in place other than a gentlemen's agreement the opportunity for abuse is all too easy. Clubs have been on their knees in the past as a result.
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bobness
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Post by bobness on May 24, 2021 16:28:14 GMT
The actual answer is between the two extremes, I'd expect.
The "facts" (verifiable, at least) are as follows Devils are owned by some apparently wealthy people, as are Panthers. Not mega-rich, but well off enough. Devils do seem to be able to recruit "bigger" CV players than other teams, in general. Players of the calibre (and hence cost, let's be honest) of Linglet (straight out of the KHL), Hedden (direct from a 31 point DEL season), Blood (from, and back to, Liiga) and Dixon (straight out of DEL) seem to gravitate to Devils. For whatever reason, everyone agrees that Devils don't appear to have to pay their arena for ice time, which helps. Devils seem to recruit far less "duff" players than Panthers, certainly, and have minimal player turnover in recent seasons, the opposite of Panthers, where up to 7 changes have been made during the season recently. That says something. Todd Kelman is a sharp cookie, who sells, sells, sells the Devils.
"Speculation" (i.e. a bit more nebulous in terms of "proof") is that Devils "look after their players" better than most if not all, but the amount of long term Devils players supports this idea, to be fair. Player budget is speculation, but the "total budget" must surely be up there for Devils. Devils do not run away with all the pots year after year though, so there is an argument that they aren't getting as much "V" as expected iF the "M" is indeed the biggest. They are, though, perennial contenders in the last 5 or 6 years. Beat the Devils, you're there or thereabouts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 16:53:46 GMT
On the subject Kelman 'sells' the devils to players ..I think Doucet certainly is showing signs of being astute as well. Kelman is much further down the line of experience here
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Post by wannabe2 on May 24, 2021 16:59:48 GMT
The actual answer is between the two extremes, I'd expect. The "facts" (verifiable, at least) are as follows Devils are owned by some apparently wealthy people, as are Panthers. Not mega-rich, but well off enough. Devils do seem to be able to recruit "bigger" CV players than other teams, in general. Players of the calibre (and hence cost, let's be honest) of Linglet (straight out of the KHL), Hedden (direct from a 31 point DEL season), Blood (from, and back to, Liiga) and Dixon (straight out of DEL) seem to gravitate to Devils. For whatever reason, everyone agrees that Devils don't appear to have to pay their arena for ice time, which helps. Devils seem to recruit far less "duff" players than Panthers, certainly, and have minimal player turnover in recent seasons, the opposite of Panthers, where up to 7 changes have been made during the season recently. That says something. Todd Kelman is a sharp cookie, who sells, sells, sells the Devils. "Speculation" (i.e. a bit more nebulous in terms of "proof") is that Devils "look after their players" better than most if not all, but the amount of long term Devils players supports this idea, to be fair. Player budget is speculation, but the "total budget" must surely be up there for Devils. Devils do not run away with all the pots year after year though, so there is an argument that they aren't getting as much "V" as expected iF the "M" is indeed the biggest. They are, though, perennial contenders in the last 5 or 6 years. Beat the Devils, you're there or thereabouts. Spot on mate, the reason Devils don’t pay ice time is this.when our rink was in the city centre Bob Phillips was the rink operator and Devils owner so he had free ice time for his team, when the Council wanted to knock the rink down for John Lewis store, the fans assembled a committee named SORAC, save our rink action committee of which I was a founder member to fight for a replacement home that the council didn’t give a toss about at that time. However after months of barracking, protests, huge TV Time, and many many meetings they relented to build the Big Blue Tent, Bob was still the team owner but the free ice time was going to be a problem, however after many months and many more meetings by SORAC and blaming the council for destroying our successful Welsh team for their greed and them being so keen to bring in a huge name like John Lewis they finally relented for free ice time. So the club was saved from following Durham etc, theCouncil promised Sorac the tent would only be temporary between 3-5 yrs, which became 10 yrs, and for those 10 yrs Sorac continued to bombard the council for a permanent home, the council then were keen to build houses down that area so after many more meetings they added that in the tender process for builders to win that contract to build the houses they had to supply at their own cost a permanent two pad rink and so a £17 million pound complex was built again with free ice time included in the deal, again won by Sorac. And that’s the story of free ice time.
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Post by wannabe2 on May 24, 2021 17:04:01 GMT
On the subject Kelman 'sells' the devils to players ..I think Doucet certainly is showing signs of being astute as well. Kelman is much further down the line of experience here Plus Doucet has worked under Kelman so has first hand experience of a bloody genius, I have a lot of time for Doucet, loved him as a player, and as a Man and got to know him pretty well. Panthers could do far worse than Doucet he will deliver, of that I am sure.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on May 24, 2021 20:08:06 GMT
Todd probably showed him how to fold a paper aeroplane once. What a guy.
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Post by wannabe2 on May 24, 2021 20:43:55 GMT
Bit childish but no surprises there.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on May 24, 2021 21:06:40 GMT
I'm sure spending two years in the vicinity of St Todd taught him everything he needed to know. Presumably he was AGM at Cardiff?
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Post by wannabe2 on May 24, 2021 21:13:16 GMT
Stupidity at its highest.
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Post by texpef on May 24, 2021 21:28:15 GMT
Lincs... in simple terms their owners are millionaires who are in it for the glory of winning rather than making money from the club and also the rink do not charge rental so any money made is profit... All in all adds up to alot of money spent on the players which other teams in the league cannot match... Massive load of tripe as usual , we don’t spend the biggest budget in the league fact,we do however have a superior skill when it’s comes to signing better players than other teams with similar budgets , put that with having 4 scholarship positions which is huge, and it’s true we don’t pay Icetime for our rink, thanks to the fans, plus the club don’t get ripped off by greedy owners. Many of our players stay for numerous seasons with it being a close knit club, giving us a advantage of players being together and understanding each other’s play, as opposed to others who swap and change every 5 mins due to poor recruitment and never getting much continuity. It’s not all about money sometimes it’s about being treated the right way and being content. Other folk won’t understand this at it don’t happen and never has at their clubs, which is their hangup and no one else’s. Stay Safe All. How is this a "massive load of tripe" 1. the owners are verifiably millionaires 2. they have openly said they are in it for the "fans" and success 3. From your own mouth the club dont pay rent Not exactly sure what else i wrote that is tripe.....
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on May 24, 2021 21:37:19 GMT
Stupidity at its highest. I can get much higher tbh. So how did it work? Did he finish training, then spend the afternoon learning at the feet of the master? I'm a bit annoyed nothing ever rubbed off on Gary at the GM meetings, he's known him for years. How is this a "massive load of tripe" It wasn't entirely complimentary about Cardiff, ergo, tripe.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on May 24, 2021 21:42:50 GMT
As a relatively new supporter of the sport, can somebody explain why it is that Cardiff are able to spend so much more? Is it funds from the owner or have they a higher income than others currently? In a nutshell. The Cardiff owners understand hockey,put the best team they can on the ice and they do what needs to be done to win. In contrast Mr Black the Panthers owner only really understands business and despite getting twice the crowds of Cardiff,he only does what he needs to in order to put a decent ish team on the ice,whilst by his own admission keeping his main focus on running it as a business and therefore maximising his profits.
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Jord v4
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Post by Jord v4 on May 24, 2021 21:48:31 GMT
Personally I love how two days ago all talk of budgets was speculation & yet today it's a fact that Cardiff don't spend the biggest budget in the league... Almost as if...
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