|
Post by Walitzer on Apr 18, 2021 16:10:05 GMT
Why are Steelers playing with 8 imports today against Manchester when Muse is still out injured ? Are they bending rules again, I thought you could only sign 8 imports so they should only have 7 today ! Are you referring to Pákozdi? He's a Brit-Hungarian dual national.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 18, 2021 16:15:20 GMT
Why are Steelers playing with 8 imports today against Manchester when Muse is still out injured ? Are they bending rules again, I thought you could only sign 8 imports so they should only have 7 today ! Are you referring to Pákozdi? He's a Brit-Hungarian dual national. Nope And I’ve just checked the official EIHL rosters and it appears Steelers and Blaze have both signed NINE imports but Panthers and Storm have both only signed EIGHT imports. There is something amiss here !!! 🤨
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,622
|
Post by Yotes on Apr 18, 2021 17:28:03 GMT
I can only count seven on the game sheet. And eight on their roster page.
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Apr 18, 2021 17:39:36 GMT
Are you referring to Pákozdi? He's a Brit-Hungarian dual national. Nope And I’ve just checked the official EIHL rosters and it appears Steelers and Blaze have both signed NINE imports but Panthers and Storm have both only signed EIGHT imports. There is something amiss here !!! 🤨 Name the Sheffield 9!
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Apr 18, 2021 17:42:27 GMT
Connolly counts as a brit, as does Hammond?
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,622
|
Post by Yotes on Apr 18, 2021 17:48:28 GMT
Yep, anyone who could be picked for GB counts for this.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 18, 2021 18:30:38 GMT
Yep, anyone who could be picked for GB counts for this. Check the game sheets and Connolly and Hammond are both listed as imports. But even if they are counted as Brits,then what about Ehrhardt at Manchester,he plays for GB but he’s listed as an import too. And there’s Ben Lake too.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,622
|
Post by Yotes on Apr 18, 2021 19:25:18 GMT
Lake and Hammond were both drafted, and Ehrhardt and Connolly were on their team's respective protected lists. In Elite Series terms, they're Brits.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 18, 2021 19:49:33 GMT
Lake and Hammond were both drafted, and Ehrhardt and Connolly were on their team's respective protected lists. In Elite Series terms, they're Brits. Bloody stupid rules then, makes Panthers choice to draft Bowns seem even dafter. Makes me even more suspicious that there were behind the scenes agreements between the four teams.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,622
|
Post by Yotes on Apr 18, 2021 19:59:06 GMT
Perfectly sensible rules tbh. The idea was, in large part, a prep for the World Championships. Get as many of Russell's potential selections playing.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 18, 2021 20:08:36 GMT
Perfectly sensible rules tbh. The idea was, in large part, a prep for the World Championships. Get as many of Russell's potential selections playing. You might see it that way. I see it as an unfair playing field, a sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams.
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 18, 2021 20:13:35 GMT
Perfectly sensible rules tbh. The idea was, in large part, a prep for the World Championships. Get as many of Russell's potential selections playing. You might see it that way. I see it as an unfair playing field, a sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams. Well with the level of most of the imports some very ordinary Brits are looking like superstars which should please Russel
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 18, 2021 21:32:57 GMT
Perfectly sensible rules tbh. The idea was, in large part, a prep for the World Championships. Get as many of Russell's potential selections playing. You might see it that way. I see it as an unfair playing field, a sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams. How is something publicly announced when the series was planned, that all teams were aware of, that all teams could plan for when they drafted and protected players in any way a "sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams". I get that you weren't aware of it until today but surely it takes more than just you not having registered or heard about it prior to today to make it a grand conspiracy? Kirk's previously unknown preseason contract (allowing Sheffield to protect him) might have raised a few fans eyebrows, but again that doesn't mean that was a conspiracy either. The four teams that agreed to the series agreed to the terms and what constituted for this series a GB player, terms that were published in the announcement and they acknowledged they were agreed upon. Isn't that kind of the exact definition of *not* a "sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams" *Scratches head*
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 18, 2021 21:54:58 GMT
You might see it that way. I see it as an unfair playing field, a sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams. How is something publicly announced when the series was planned, that all teams were aware of, that all teams could plan for when they drafted and protected players in any way a "sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams". I get that you weren't aware of it until today but surely it takes more than just you not having registered or heard about it prior to today to make it a grand conspiracy? Kirk's previously unknown preseason contract (allowing Sheffield to protect him) might have raised a few fans eyebrows, but again that doesn't mean that was a conspiracy either. The four teams that agreed to the series agreed to the terms and what constituted for this series a GB player, terms that were published in the announcement and they acknowledged they were agreed upon. Isn't that kind of the exact definition of *not* a "sham that was engineered behind the scenes and is not fair to all teams" *Scratches head* Where were Panthers “protected (Brit) imports” ? That’s why it’s not a level playing field. Panthers were dumb agreeing to those rules IF they were really bothered about winning. I don’t believe they were bothered and I don’t understand why they traded that first pick to let Storm have all those early Brit picks. Steelers and Blaze both have 9th imports basically and Panthers let Storm have all those picks to strengthen them up too. Call me cynical if you like and don’t get me wrong I couldn’t care a toss whether Panthers win or not, but that’s why I see it as a behind the scenes sham.
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 18, 2021 22:20:39 GMT
Whistle and Perlini are both dual nationals like some of the others you mentioned. They both class as GB (not import) as they're on the GB longlist for selection. Believe both were protected by Panthers.
If we have let the standard of our GB players in the Panthers squad slip then that's a different matter. But saying Panthers shouldn't have agreed to take part on those terms really would be cutting your nose off to spite your face.
So you don't care if they win or not but yet you're still upset because you think it was rigged against the Panthers...
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 18, 2021 22:35:02 GMT
Whistle and Perlini are both dual nationals like some of the others you mentioned. They both class as GB (not import) as they're on the GB longlist for selection. Believe both were protected by Panthers. If we have let the standard of our GB players in the Panthers squad slip then that's a different matter. But saying Panthers shouldn't have agreed to take part on those terms really would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. So you don't care if they win or not but yet you're still upset because you think it was rigged against the Panthers... I’m not upset I’m just querying why two teams appear to have been allowed an advantage with basically extra imports and a third team was given a rather large helping hand by Panthers to become a fair bit stronger all round. It all seems a bit too rigged for my liking and It’s exactly this kind of thing amongst a lot of other instances and things that happen in the EIHL why I don’t care a toss any more. And Whistie and Perlini are Brits in the normal EIHL but Connolly, Hammond and Lake are not they’re imports. Check the EIHL series game sheets and see who’s listed as Brit and who’s an import.
|
|
|
Post by jd on Apr 18, 2021 23:25:03 GMT
Stupid rules Panthers are daft Don’t care what they do
I wouldn’t call you cynical Iginla, I’d question if you’re a fan tbh. For someone who doesn’t care you don’t half comment a lot
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 18, 2021 23:49:38 GMT
Stupid rules Panthers are daft Don’t care what they do I wouldn’t call you cynical Iginla, I’d question if you’re a fan tbh. For someone who doesn’t care you don’t half comment a lot I’d call me cynical, I am very very cynical where anything EIHL is concerned. Do you have to be a fan to comment then, sometimes it’s very good to get a different view to the blinkered fan who only sees his team. This situation is like the Challenge cup groups that ensure Panthers and Steelers are always grouped together which makes it feels rigged, or like the imbalance of the conference system which again seemed rigged. Why can they never just have a level playing field, I’d bet that Connolly, Hammond and Lake would all have been playing in this series irrespective of whether they were classed as Brits or imports. There was absolutely no reason why they had to be reclassified as Brits for this on the pretence that it would be good for GB, because they’d have been here anyway even as an import. All it’s done is create an imbalance.
|
|
|
Post by jd on Apr 19, 2021 1:43:03 GMT
Don’t have to be a fan no, but the impression I get from your previous posts I wouldn’t class you as one. You hate them. You obviously despise Corey, hate this series, don’t give a toss if we win or not, think it’s rigged, think we are stupid for the agreeing to the rules
Not expecting you to be a “happy clapper” but I don’t get you.
What are you expecting? The league every year? Playoffs every year? AHL/DEL/SHL roster?
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 19, 2021 5:43:12 GMT
Whistle and Perlini are both dual nationals like some of the others you mentioned. They both class as GB (not import) as they're on the GB longlist for selection. Believe both were protected by Panthers. If we have let the standard of our GB players in the Panthers squad slip then that's a different matter. But saying Panthers shouldn't have agreed to take part on those terms really would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. So you don't care if they win or not but yet you're still upset because you think it was rigged against the Panthers... And Whistie and Perlini are Brits in the *normal EIHL* but Connolly, Hammond and Lake are not they’re imports. Check the EIHL series game sheets and see who’s listed as Brit and who’s an import. You make the point yourself: *normal EIHL*. This is not the normal EIHL. The game sheets have been prepared using categories originally drawn up for the 20/21 season and *not* the categories for this reduced 4 team Elite Series. Hence the inclusion of the U23 category which you fail to mention. Equally you could say, hang on Panthers are icing 6 U23 players to Sheffield's 2 in some games or any other apparently "unfair" variation based on using *normal* full season classifications on this Elite Series' game sheets. The point is that the game sheets clearly had preprepared classifications of players based on the rules for the full 20/21 season which are being repurposed for this Elite series - *where such classifications are incorrect under the new Series rules*. So technically for this Series it is simply that the game sheet classifications are incorrect, not evidence of some big conspiracy And how they're recorded on the game sheet doesn't change the fact that all teams agreed and knew the correct classifications for this Series in advance.
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 19, 2021 6:21:50 GMT
Don’t have to be a fan no, but the impression I get from your previous posts I wouldn’t class you as one. You hate them. You obviously despise Corey, hate this series, don’t give a toss if we win or not, think it’s rigged, think we are stupid for the agreeing to the rules Not expecting you to be a “happy clapper” but I don’t get you. What are you expecting? The league every year? Playoffs every year? AHL/DEL/SHL roster? Given that in a recent years Panthers currently average 13-15 players with AHL experience and up to 3-5 with NHL experience I'm not sure that an AHL roster would still be enough for some. As previous rosters havn't proved to be in a normal year. And with this year's restricted budget and import limit we've got the team we've got. We just have to take it for what it is, a stop gap. And a valuable one. The government gave the EIHL *bailout money* for the English teams and in a short period of time the teams pulled together a Series utilising that money to keep the sport going in the UK. Considering that the Scottish and Cardiff/Belfast teams weren't given money by their devolved governments means that the teams taking part (and keeping themselves going) have been very lucky and, in a use it or lose it cycle of funding they widely choose to use it. So even if the quality of product isn't the same standard as normal it's a vital stopgap for survival. Doesn't mean it isn't entertaining. Doesn't mean it can't be frustrating as well too. Just like a normally budgeted and built team. But we're seriously lucky to have any EIHL product to discuss or analyse at all this year: and if it hadn't been for the Norwegian season being called of we'd might well have struggled to get as many experienced players here in the time for us to be debating who should be classified as what. Though I have to say I think it's sometimes been the first year pro's and other players with a 'point to prove' who have often caught the eye so far this year. The players who didn't know if they'd have a career with the pandemic and are living and dying by each result as a result. The kind of passion that some of the experienced players also have and that we love to see: the Sam Herr, Brandin Cote-like 'this game ain't over until they carry me off" attitude But then, if this Series hadn't happened at all I guess it might have been a relief to some. They'd finally have been proved right: the EIHL is doomed. As the Superleague was doomed. As ice hockey had been doomed in the UK since way back when we were (I think from memory) the first nation to have won Olympic, World and European gold. As it's clearly doomed to all the high quality players who compete to come here in every normal year and even in the midst of a pandemic. Okay so it would have taken a global pandemic to actually finish it off (rather than anything to do with ice hockey) but that wouldn't have been the point would it? :/ And you could understand the relief for some. After all, as any stat nerd knows, there's nothing worse than having to wade through PDFs of game sheets checking classifications to prove how little you care about what's going on. I'm not having a go at anyone but equally I dont think it's likely that someone doesn't care about something (even if it's just proving how much they don't like it) if you're prepared to study who is classified as what on a game sheet. That's way more than most 'fans' bother with. That's all I'm saying. But, as always, JMHO
|
|
Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
|
Post by Jord v4 on Apr 19, 2021 7:30:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Apr 19, 2021 8:07:15 GMT
Yep, anyone who could be picked for GB counts for this. Check the game sheets and Connolly and Hammond are both listed as imports. But even if they are counted as Brits,then what about Ehrhardt at Manchester,he plays for GB but he’s listed as an import too. And there’s Ben Lake too. They are, yes, but I think that's something that will have to go down as "No-one at EIHL Towers thought to fix that (from the "normal" stats) for this series". The rules were widely publicised before the start of the series, in what I actually think was a decent job by the EIHL. The "news" that came out of that was that Kirk could be protected by Sheffield, as he had signed a conditional/optional contract with them for 21-22, rather than being available in the draft, where he would surely have gone top 3, possibly even first. Did you really think that 2 of the teams had "snuck in" a 9th import and you were the first to notice?
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 19, 2021 8:43:42 GMT
Check the game sheets and Connolly and Hammond are both listed as imports. But even if they are counted as Brits,then what about Ehrhardt at Manchester,he plays for GB but he’s listed as an import too. And there’s Ben Lake too. They are, yes, but I think that's something that will have to go down as "No-one at EIHL Towers thought to fix that (from the "normal" stats) for this series". The rules were widely publicised before the start of the series, in what I actually think was a decent job by the EIHL. The "news" that came out of that was that Kirk could be protected by Sheffield, as he had signed a conditional/optional contract with them for 21-22, rather than being available in the draft, where he would surely have gone top 3, possibly even first. Did you really think that 2 of the teams had "snuck in" a 9th import and you were the first to notice? Basically yes they have snuck in a 9th import and Panthers either weren’t smart enough to clock what would happen or were happy to play at a disadvantage because they didn’t have one. And why pick Bowns when you’ve already got Whistle when you could have had Hammond, Lake or Connolly, it doesn’t make sense to me. And in trading for Bowns you’ve also made Manchester stronger too. Then as you say there’s Kirk,had he really signed that contract or did Sheffield pull a stroke there....who knows but it could be either. If people are happy to see their team at a disadvantage then that’s up to them,I’m just looking at it as an outsider these days and pointing out what appears to be an unfair advantage to some teams. Not for me all this EIHL nonsense, hence why I don’t give a toss anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Walitzer on Apr 19, 2021 9:28:58 GMT
They are, yes, but I think that's something that will have to go down as "No-one at EIHL Towers thought to fix that (from the "normal" stats) for this series". The rules were widely publicised before the start of the series, in what I actually think was a decent job by the EIHL. The "news" that came out of that was that Kirk could be protected by Sheffield, as he had signed a conditional/optional contract with them for 21-22, rather than being available in the draft, where he would surely have gone top 3, possibly even first. Did you really think that 2 of the teams had "snuck in" a 9th import and you were the first to notice? Basically yes they have snuck in a 9th import and Panthers either weren’t smart enough to clock what would happen or were happy to play at a disadvantage because they didn’t have one. And why pick Bowns when you’ve already got Whistle when you could have had Hammond, Lake or Connolly, it doesn’t make sense to me. And in trading for Bowns you’ve also made Manchester stronger too. Then as you say there’s Kirk,had he really signed that contract or did Sheffield pull a stroke there....who knows but it could be either. If people are happy to see their team at a disadvantage then that’s up to them,I’m just looking at it as an outsider these days and pointing out what appears to be an unfair advantage to some teams. Not for me all this EIHL nonsense, hence why I don’t give a toss anymore. They haven't snuck in a 9th Import, they followed the rules set out by the teams entering the tournament. Brendan Connolly and Dallas Erhardt are British players in the eyes of the IIHF and EIHL Series and therefor were eligible to be protected players. I don't think its unreasonable that Panthers come out looking a weaker team than Sheffield in a tournament designed to showcase British players, when we have a comparatively much weaker Brit pack. If there's a failing on side of the Panthers here, it's a failure to have developed new British talent pre-covid and a failure in letting promising players slip away.
As for Bowns, David Simms did say on one of the Steelers commentaries that the Panthers were looking to trade Whistle for Sam Jones (IIRC), whether you believe the estate agent however is up to you.
|
|