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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 13:34:52 GMT
I think the problem is that this place has become a bit of an echo chamber sadly, and is one of the reasons I very rarely post on here any more. Unfortunately debate just isn’t possible. Absolutely. The Cage has gone from somewhere I'd post regularly and engage with other posters to a place I only really look at now for information, and the rare post when I think things are getting way too one sided. The Cage was once a place for diverse voices and narratives, for all fans, welcoming and engaging. Now it is dominated by a few 'loud' voices who seem to come here almost exclusively to snipe at other posters, each other or the organisation. I'm all for criticising things when they need it - one of my posts on the now defunct Elite League forum even resulted in Neil Black himself calling me too discuss the issue in question - but when anything other than the viewpoint of this handful of posters gets jumped on, without even reading the article in question, or doing any research to back up a narrative then a forum is dying. If posters are unwilling to consider alternative views, 'slap down' less experienced hockey fans, or snipe/give knee jerk reactions then it's not a forum any more really... As more and more posters like myself and others in this (and other previous threads) think it's not even worth posting any more then the fuel that keeps the forum going is extinguished, and those three or four voices steal more and more of the oxygen for debate. The irony is, that by driving away the wider debates and other voices, those dominant voices prevent the forum being a place where any actual critical evaluation of the Panthers could take place. In doing so, not only do they rob fans of a place to celebrate, engage with the team and other hockey nuts etc but also stop the Cage from having enough 'weight' to be a place where a genuine and necessary critique of the organisation/team or a management misstep could actually gain enough critical mass to have an effect on the team. In short, those three or four voices, prevent any legitimate criticism from ever being heard or considered. If I get in trouble or banned for saying this then so be it but I honestly believe that the Mods need to look at how those voices are effecting the Cage traffic and dynamic. I remember someone telling me about the Cage and being grateful. If I met a newbie to the Panthers at a game now would I tell them to visit the Cage...? No. And that's a sad truth. Why wouldn't I tell them? Because I think it would be more likely to drive them away from the team and the sport than bring them further into the community. As always, JMHO and I respect other people's right to disagree with this comment, but I'd be interested to see the data review on posting, traffic, new and inactive members and the number of different posters in threads over time, and how it compares recently. B&G73 out... |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 13:41:05 GMT
Still struggling to fathom why the back up goalie needs to wear a mask on the bench. Surely that's just theatre. The coach gets an exemption for communication purposes. But, along with the support staff, the backup NM is the *only* person continuously on the bench, meaning all players are exposed to him (and support staff) cumulatively for the maximum time each game. With line changes happening all the time and moving on the bench players close contact exposure to other players is lower. But their cumulative close contact exposure is high to anyone who is *always* on the bench when they are. And the backup NM is the one player you can pretty much guarantee is going to always on the bench when any other player is. Over the course of a game his exposure to all players is highest and their exposure to him is highest. |
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Post by bobness on Apr 7, 2021 13:51:33 GMT
Yes they have been very impressive and it's good seeing the new Lacho at last Is that because the standard is lower and so Lacho is having more of an impact. That's a bit harsh on Lacho, to be fair. I don't think the standard is all that noticeably "lower", all things considered, maybe he's found some fire he's been lacking the last couple of seasons? He's been playing 3rd line minutes, so is doing well to clearly impress a few people. Good on him. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 13:53:29 GMT
From the highlights I've seen so far I think Doucet needs to try and get Lewis Hook and Talbot-Tassi on board for the full season. Been impressed . Johno May for his physical presence as well he certainly likes to plant himself in front of the netties
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 14:03:12 GMT
Is that because the standard is lower and so Lacho is having more of an impact. That's a bit harsh on Lacho, to be fair. I don't think the standard is all that noticeably "lower", all things considered, maybe he's found some fire he's been lacking the last couple of seasons? He's been playing 3rd line minutes, so is doing well to clearly impress a few people. Good on him. Whatever it is, good on him. Those three seasons 7-9 years ago when he developed into a point per game player were quite something to watch. Coaches since haven't used him quite the same way so if he's still got it in him and can use this Series to shake up coaches perceptions of him again then good on him. Even if that means he gets poached to another team. The Panthers, unfortunately, (with a few obvious exceptions: DC) haven't always utilised their GB players in a way that seems to get the point production out of them that other EIHL teams do from their GB players/the same players. Partly that's too do with TOI but also, sometimes, a tendency to run a GB line (often as a shut down line) rather than mix them with imports as much. But, as always, JMHO |
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Post by bobness on Apr 7, 2021 14:54:40 GMT
That's a bit harsh on Lacho, to be fair. I don't think the standard is all that noticeably "lower", all things considered, maybe he's found some fire he's been lacking the last couple of seasons? He's been playing 3rd line minutes, so is doing well to clearly impress a few people. Good on him. Whatever it is, good on him. Those three seasons 7-9 years ago when he developed into a point per game player were quite something to watch. Coaches since haven't used him quite the same way so if he's still got it in him and can use this Series to shake up coaches perceptions of him again then good on him. Even if that means he gets poached to another team. The Panthers, unfortunately, (with a few obvious exceptions: DC) haven't always utilised their GB players in a way that seems to get the point production out of them that other EIHL teams do from their GB players/the same players. Partly that's too do with TOI but also, sometimes, a tendency to run a GB line (often as a shut down line) rather than mix them with imports as much. But, as always, JMHO Indeed. I've thought Ollie is a particular "victim" of this process in the last few years. He's a lot better all round player than he often gets chance to show in a Panthers shirt (IMHO) as he's normally playing 3rd line and PK minutes. I'd love to see him playing regularly on a scoring line, I think he could do some damage. That said, it looks like he's captain this "year"? Well deserved if so, always gives 100%, to these eyes, a good choice. |
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Post by yeoldeperson on Apr 7, 2021 16:02:30 GMT
I think Tetlow has stepped up his game, seems a lot more confident...obviously makes the odd mistake, but in a year or two he will be a huge (literally!) asset to have.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Apr 7, 2021 16:43:35 GMT
Is that because the standard is lower and so Lacho is having more of an impact. That's a bit harsh on Lacho, to be fair. I don't think the standard is all that noticeably "lower", all things considered, maybe he's found some fire he's been lacking the last couple of seasons? He's been playing 3rd line minutes, so is doing well to clearly impress a few people. Good on him. It wasn't meant as a criticism of him. I've always been a supporter of Lacho's, I think he's not pushed on from his initial impact, but he's not the type of player to throw big hits, score lots of goals etc. He's evolved into a role player but I wish he'd show more faith in his own abilities sometimes. I'm pleased if he's doing well and it might mean a role in the GB team as well. |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 17:17:23 GMT
Whatever it is, good on him. Those three seasons 7-9 years ago when he developed into a point per game player were quite something to watch. Coaches since haven't used him quite the same way so if he's still got it in him and can use this Series to shake up coaches perceptions of him again then good on him. Even if that means he gets poached to another team. The Panthers, unfortunately, (with a few obvious exceptions: DC) haven't always utilised their GB players in a way that seems to get the point production out of them that other EIHL teams do from their GB players/the same players. Partly that's too do with TOI but also, sometimes, a tendency to run a GB line (often as a shut down line) rather than mix them with imports as much. But, as always, JMHO Indeed. I've thought Ollie is a particular "victim" of this process in the last few years. He's a lot better all round player than he often gets chance to show in a Panthers shirt (IMHO) as he's normally playing 3rd line and PK minutes. I'd love to see him playing regularly on a scoring line, I think he could do some damage. That said, it looks like he's captain this "year"? Well deserved if so, always gives 100%, to these eyes, a good choice. Exactly. Remember all the panthers hype about the BBQ line at the start of the year last year when he was playing with Bulmer and Quist and they were scoring so freely? What happened, the line gets broken up as the coach experiments and he plays with "lesser" players and scores less and less |
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Post by bobness on Apr 7, 2021 17:31:27 GMT
Exactly. Remember all the panthers hype about the BBQ line at the start of the year last year when he was playing with Bulmer and Quist and they were scoring so freely? What happened, the line gets broken up as the coach experiments and he plays with "lesser" players and scores less and less Have to say I can't remember that, and there isn't a single goal scored in the league last year where those 3 were on the ice together. In fact, there was only one in the CC. Probably a nice bit of "spin" by a certain GM? Saw a set of initials and went for it? |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 18:05:56 GMT
That's a bit harsh on Lacho, to be fair. I don't think the standard is all that noticeably "lower", all things considered, maybe he's found some fire he's been lacking the last couple of seasons? He's been playing 3rd line minutes, so is doing well to clearly impress a few people. Good on him. It wasn't meant as a criticism of him. I've always been a supporter of Lacho's, I think he's not pushed on from his initial impact, but he's not the type of player to throw big hits, score lots of goals etc. He's evolved into a role player but I wish he'd show more faith in his own abilities sometimes. I'm pleased if he's doing well and it might mean a role in the GB team as well. Yeah, I see what you mean but equally you could argue it's hard to push on when you're being used as a "role" player or shutdown line too much. It's one of the reasons third and fourth line AHL players come to the EIHL: to have the chance to play a scoring role more and change the perception of them before returning to the States or moving into Europe. We see it all the time. And several have been quite open about it. In his first five years full-time with the Panthers Lacho was 11th, 7th, 9th, 2nd and 2nd on the team in point production. Those final two years his numbers (51pts in 13/14) placed him 23rd and 35th in the entire league. In the last 5 years he's been 17th, 12th, 12th, 19th and 13th in point production on the team. Years when you might expect him to be good most productive. Now maybe there was a major career changing injury in the off season or some other change but that's a heck of a change. Yes, people will argue he's got older but he's still only 31 and, crucially, his assists have gone down equally, suggesting that even as he reads the game better with age he's now not on lines that are putting shots away. All of the top 6 assists leaders in the league last year were over 25, with 3 over 35. Yes, you could argue as some have that we've not recruited Brits as well as our rivals recently, so if he is on a Brits line now it's lower quality, but equally he wasn't putting up 51pts a season playing on a Brits only line. Yes, putting lines together is as much art as science but some things can't be overlooked. Hence all the concern last year about under recruiting centres and having players constantly play out of position, and the ever changing lines. So maybe next year with a larger squad I'd like to see Lacho, Betteridge and some of the others "stretched" by playing on other lines. I think they'd step up: just like Betteridge for those handful of games playing with an ex-NHLer and a Swedish veteran drafted by Edmonton. But with the smaller squad right now I know that's not likely this year. Though I can't help thinking the arrival of Perlini could shake up the lines to our collective advantage. But, as always, JMHO |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 18:07:39 GMT
Exactly. Remember all the panthers hype about the BBQ line at the start of the year last year when he was playing with Bulmer and Quist and they were scoring so freely? What happened, the line gets broken up as the coach experiments and he plays with "lesser" players and scores less and less Have to say I can't remember that, and there isn't a single goal scored in the league last year where those 3 were on the ice together. In fact, there was only one in the CC. Probably a nice bit of "spin" by a certain GM? Saw a set of initials and went for it? Yeah mostly it was preseason when BBQ was a "thing' from what I remember. But I do remember they definitely had some chemistry |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 18:10:08 GMT
Exactly. Remember all the panthers hype about the BBQ line at the start of the year last year when he was playing with Bulmer and Quist and they were scoring so freely? What happened, the line gets broken up as the coach experiments and he plays with "lesser" players and scores less and less Have to say I can't remember that, and there isn't a single goal scored in the league last year where those 3 were on the ice together. In fact, there was only one in the CC. Probably a nice bit of "spin" by a certain GM? Saw a set of initials and went for it? Don't get me started on the GM or we'll be here all night 🤦🏽♂️😂 |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 7, 2021 18:30:20 GMT
Have to say I can't remember that, and there isn't a single goal scored in the league last year where those 3 were on the ice together. In fact, there was only one in the CC. Probably a nice bit of "spin" by a certain GM? Saw a set of initials and went for it? PS: just wanted to say thanks for this response. To go and check the stats and they come back with a considered response in light of this is just the kind of post the forum needs more of. Sorry I didn't mention the preseason thing to save you some time tracking it down, but always happy to be corrected if I'm off base. I was going from video highlights and preseason games so really appreciated this! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 18:43:45 GMT
I think the problem is that this place has become a bit of an echo chamber sadly, and is one of the reasons I very rarely post on here any more. Unfortunately debate just isn’t possible. Absolutely. The Cage has gone from somewhere I'd post regularly and engage with other posters to a place I only really look at now for information, and the rare post when I think things are getting way too one sided. The Cage was once a place for diverse voices and narratives, for all fans, welcoming and engaging. Now it is dominated by a few 'loud' voices who seem to come here almost exclusively to snipe at other posters, each other or the organisation. I'm all for criticising things when they need it - one of my posts on the now defunct Elite League forum even resulted in Neil Black himself calling me too discuss the issue in question - but when anything other than the viewpoint of this handful of posters gets jumped on, without even reading the article in question, or doing any research to back up a narrative then a forum is dying. If posters are unwilling to consider alternative views, 'slap down' less experienced hockey fans, or snipe/give knee jerk reactions then it's not a forum any more really... As more and more posters like myself and others in this (and other previous threads) think it's not even worth posting any more then the fuel that keeps the forum going is extinguished, and those three or four voices steal more and more of the oxygen for debate. The irony is, that by driving away the wider debates and other voices, those dominant voices prevent the forum being a place where any actual critical evaluation of the Panthers could take place. In doing so, not only do they rob fans of a place to celebrate, engage with the team and other hockey nuts etc but also stop the Cage from having enough 'weight' to be a place where a genuine and necessary critique of the organisation/team or a management misstep could actually gain enough critical mass to have an effect on the team. In short, those three or four voices, prevent any legitimate criticism from ever being heard or considered. If I get in trouble or banned for saying this then so be it but I honestly believe that the Mods need to look at how those voices are effecting the Cage traffic and dynamic. I remember someone telling me about the Cage and being grateful. If I met a newbie to the Panthers at a game now would I tell them to visit the Cage...? No. And that's a sad truth. Why wouldn't I tell them? Because I think it would be more likely to drive them away from the team and the sport than bring them further into the community. As always, JMHO and I respect other people's right to disagree with this comment, but I'd be interested to see the data review on posting, traffic, new and inactive members and the number of different posters in threads over time, and how it compares recently. B&G73 out... Let’s hope those ‘loud voices’ take notice, although it’s highly unlikely! ☹️ |
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Post by floridadad on Apr 7, 2021 20:42:38 GMT
Have to say I can't remember that, and there isn't a single goal scored in the league last year where those 3 were on the ice together. In fact, there was only one in the CC. Probably a nice bit of "spin" by a certain GM? Saw a set of initials and went for it? Yeah mostly it was preseason when BBQ was a "thing' from what I remember. But I do remember they definitely had some chemistry Having only watched 4 games very impressed with Lacho. Great motor,great compete and a very good hockey IQ. |
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Post by bobness on Apr 7, 2021 21:22:59 GMT
Yeah mostly it was preseason when BBQ was a "thing' from what I remember. But I do remember they definitely had some chemistry Having only watched 4 games very impressed with Lacho. Great motor,great compete and a very good hockey IQ. Thanks for this, good to know your thoughts as, I assume, someone new to uk hockey? Maybe sometimes we can’t see the wood for the trees, or at least get blinded by familiarity to some degree. |
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Post by floridadad on Apr 7, 2021 21:53:57 GMT
Having only watched 4 games very impressed with Lacho. Great motor,great compete and a very good hockey IQ. Thanks for this, good to know your thoughts as, I assume, someone new to uk hockey? Maybe sometimes we can’t see the wood for the trees, or at least get blinded by familiarity to some degree. |
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Post by floridadad on Apr 7, 2021 21:58:57 GMT
Thanks for this, good to know your thoughts as, I assume, someone new to uk hockey? Maybe sometimes we can’t see the wood for the trees, or at least get blinded by familiarity to some degree. Having watched a ton of NCAA,AHL,DEL and Norwegian games I think the hockey is quite good in England. Players skate hard,want to take their game to the next level and have pretty good hockey IQ. The refs do let a lot go which surprises me especially slashing but the reffing has been consistent. The faceoff drop has been a bit sketchy though. I have enjoyed watching the elite league and I enjoy the comments on this forum. Very orderly and knowledgeable posters. |
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Post by messier1851 on Apr 8, 2021 12:24:02 GMT
Having watched a ton of NCAA,AHL,DEL and Norwegian games I think the hockey is quite good in England. Players skate hard,want to take their game to the next level and have pretty good hockey IQ. The refs do let a lot go which surprises me especially slashing but the reffing has been consistent. The faceoff drop has been a bit sketchy though. I have enjoyed watching the elite league and I enjoy the comments on this forum. Very orderly and knowledgeable posters. Nice to have an outside viewpoint and also a pair of fresh eyes. Do you have your eye on any players in particular or are you just happy to be getting to watch some hockey? |
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shinobi
Randall Weber
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Post by shinobi on Apr 8, 2021 13:48:37 GMT
I do not recognise many names on the Panthers roster 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by floridadad on Apr 8, 2021 14:50:45 GMT
I do not recognise many names on the Panthers roster 🤣🤣🤣 Really enjoying seeing hockey again. Really like Lachowitz and both Panther goalies. Plus it is always fun to watch my son play. |
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Post by yeoldeperson on Apr 8, 2021 16:03:26 GMT
Assume your son is the one that is pretty handy in the face off circle ...  |
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Post by chucka1 on Apr 8, 2021 17:33:34 GMT
My assumption was the same!
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Post by floridadad on Apr 8, 2021 20:30:03 GMT
You got it!
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