iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 25, 2019 22:37:17 GMT
Kolnik went back to Quebec to play semi-pro, Janssen retired, Bohmbach retired, Ling couldn't play another full season, Quick played one more year in China, (getting thrashed every weekend) then retired, Mosey went to the A and MacDonald retired. Not sure we "let them leave"? Schultz came back and did OK, Moran came back to be something of a disappointment. The only bright spark in that season was McGratton, his line, and that goal vs Fitzy and the Steelers. All I’ll say is money talks. Ok, Janssen and Mosey may not have been tempted but I’m sure the others would have been influenced. Do you agree we need to keep a good core from this season? Kolnik was paid £900 a week when he was here. The following year Corey told him during negotiations that he wasn’t worth it but he’d give it him again.....so Kolnik told him to stuff it if that’s what he thought. So that was one damn good player we could have had back but for the arrogance of our previous coach ! 🙄
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2019 8:28:04 GMT
Kolnik went back to Quebec to play semi-pro, Janssen retired, Bohmbach retired, Ling couldn't play another full season, Quick played one more year in China, (getting thrashed every weekend) then retired, Mosey went to the A and MacDonald retired. Not sure we "let them leave"? Schultz came back and did OK, Moran came back to be something of a disappointment. The only bright spark in that season was McGratton, his line, and that goal vs Fitzy and the Steelers. All I’ll say is money talks. Ok, Janssen and Mosey may not have been tempted but I’m sure the others would have been influenced. Do you agree we need to keep a good core from this season? Frankly, no. I'd keep 3 or 4 at most, but would definitely like to keep them. Hughes is top of my list. Then Guptill. After that, I'd like Munson to return. Possibly Hurtubise. No other import. Only my opinions, but you did ask. For the money Panthers apparently pay, there's way more value to be had than has been on display this season.
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2019 8:31:22 GMT
All I’ll say is money talks. Ok, Janssen and Mosey may not have been tempted but I’m sure the others would have been influenced. Do you agree we need to keep a good core from this season? Kolnik was paid £900 a week when he was here. The following year Corey told him during negotiations that he wasn’t worth it but he’d give it him again.....so Kolnik told him to stuff it if that’s what he thought. So that was one damn good player we could have had back but for the arrogance of our previous coach ! 🙄 So he went back to a semi-pro league? Bet he didn't get £900 a week there.
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2019 8:53:31 GMT
Genuinely Pidge, what do you base this opinion on? You don't even go to Panthers games any more, do you? Let alone benchmark the league to others? I've been watching the "old" highlights of games on Freesports and the pace is laughable compared to what you get these days. Players like Linglet, Baun, Olsen, Byers and others have way better hockey histories than anyone playing EIHL 10 years ago. 10 years ago, Hurtubise led the league in points per game and Greg Chambers scored 72 points... The EIHL is way better a league now. I can barely imagine a 2008-09 EIHL team winning a face off against a CHL team, let alone qualifying for the next round. Try watching a superleague game and get back to me... I ll wait The likes of Joey Martin may have scrapped into the 4th line back then if they were lucky . Some back up goalies were better than starting netties now, and it was entertaining!!!! Ahh, the old "the ISL was better" defence. As you never mentioned the ISL originally, I assumed you were postulating that the EIHL wasn't getting better. Like it or not, it absolutely is. Is it ISL standard yet? I'd say it isn't far off, at its top level. Giants and Devils this year are, I'd say, pretty much ISL quality rosters. Doubtless you'll think differently. There's a lot less fighting and "entertainment", I grant you, but times have moved on. Players have had serious mental issues, died or committed suicide, and the sporting world has wised up, thank goodness. The last ISL year featured a Panthers team who couldn't have played 4 lines if they'd wanted and featured in their 17 skater roster (with the greatest of respect) James Morgan and Paul Moran. If you genuinely think Joey Martin (a player with basically an extended version of Greg Hadden's CV, pre UK) couldn't have got on an ISL team 4th line (see above) then you're so blinkered I can't help you.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2019 8:59:17 GMT
Kolnik was paid £900 a week when he was here. The following year Corey told him during negotiations that he wasn’t worth it but he’d give it him again.....so Kolnik told him to stuff it if that’s what he thought. So that was one damn good player we could have had back but for the arrogance of our previous coach ! 🙄 So he went back to a semi-pro league? Bet he didn't get £900 a week there. Maybe he got a second job too Bob like the lower league imports do here. Semi pros aren’t at the rink every day.
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2019 9:56:13 GMT
So he went back to a semi-pro league? Bet he didn't get £900 a week there. Maybe he got a second job too Bob like the lower league imports do here. Semi pros aren’t at the rink every day. Agreed, but I'd still rather do one job to earn the money I need than 2, given the choice? Anyway... If true, this shows the disparity of wages too, as when Storm had their dispute with Healey, the court reported he was on something like £450 a week? Different players, granted, but still... The ECHL wage cap is $13,000 for 18 dressed players. If you're not sent down by an NHL/AHL club, coming to the UK could be a heck of a rise.
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Post by jd on Mar 26, 2019 9:59:02 GMT
All I’ll say is money talks. Ok, Janssen and Mosey may not have been tempted but I’m sure the others would have been influenced. Do you agree we need to keep a good core from this season? Kolnik was paid £900 a week when he was here. The following year Corey told him during negotiations that he wasn’t worth it but he’d give it him again.....so Kolnik told him to stuff it if that’s what he thought. So that was one damn good player we could have had back but for the arrogance of our previous coach ! 🙄 Out of interest, how do you know that?
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Post by Carnell on Mar 26, 2019 15:34:24 GMT
Maybe he got a second job too Bob like the lower league imports do here. Semi pros aren’t at the rink every day. If true, this shows the disparity of wages too, as when Storm had their dispute with Healey, the court reported he was on something like £450 a week? Different players, granted, but still... I believe Heatley was on a university placement, which would have drove his wage demand down/allowed Storm to pay him a lower salary.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2019 21:17:12 GMT
Kolnik was paid £900 a week when he was here. The following year Corey told him during negotiations that he wasn’t worth it but he’d give it him again.....so Kolnik told him to stuff it if that’s what he thought. So that was one damn good player we could have had back but for the arrogance of our previous coach ! 🙄 Out of interest, how do you know that? From within the inner circle JD.
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Post by jd on Mar 26, 2019 22:20:05 GMT
Out of interest, how do you know that? From within the inner circle JD. Hahaha thanks for clearing that up 🙄
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Post by wasteoftime on Mar 27, 2019 6:26:24 GMT
Why would anyone want Hurtubise back?
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2019 7:16:47 GMT
Why would anyone want Hurtubise back? Same reason some people like Rissling/Olsen. Just a personal opinion. It’s not “right” but neither is it “wrong”.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 27, 2019 8:26:15 GMT
Why would anyone want Hurtubise back? He can’t be that bad,he’s 3rd in points only just behind Guptill and Pither ? We’ve had much worse before.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 8:30:36 GMT
Theres been certain players people have wanted back in previous years which have been baffling lol
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2019 9:17:29 GMT
Theres been certain players people have wanted back in previous years which have been baffling lol Greg Jacina anyone?
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2019 9:21:32 GMT
Why would anyone want Hurtubise back? He can’t be that bad,he’s 3rd in points only just behind Guptill and Pither ? We’ve had much worse before. Indeed. 3rd in even strength points, defensively responsible, hard worker, turns up every game. Not the "gun" he once was, but I'd happily have him back on the second/third line.
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Post by texpef on Mar 27, 2019 9:29:12 GMT
Try watching a superleague game and get back to me... I ll wait The likes of Joey Martin may have scrapped into the 4th line back then if they were lucky . Some back up goalies were better than starting netties now, and it was entertaining!!!! Ahh, the old "the ISL was better" defence. As you never mentioned the ISL originally, I assumed you were postulating that the EIHL wasn't getting better. Like it or not, it absolutely is. Is it ISL standard yet? I'd say it isn't far off, at its top level. Giants and Devils this year are, I'd say, pretty much ISL quality rosters. Doubtless you'll think differently. There's a lot less fighting and "entertainment", I grant you, but times have moved on. Players have had serious mental issues, died or committed suicide, and the sporting world has wised up, thank goodness. The last ISL year featured a Panthers team who couldn't have played 4 lines if they'd wanted and featured in their 17 skater roster (with the greatest of respect) James Morgan and Paul Moran. If you genuinely think Joey Martin (a player with basically an extended version of Greg Hadden's CV, pre UK) couldn't have got on an ISL team 4th line (see above) then you're so blinkered I can't help you. Hi Bob, mostly I do like your posts but I have a few observations regarding this one:- Joey Martin quote may have been relevant when you remember the great Adey was employed by Sheffield on their fourth line and some of the great goalie combo's in the likes of Ayr and Storm teams for examples where very very good BUT these teams were VERY expensive and co-incidentally no longer exist. As for the EIHL until you can have complete teams of AHL/ECHL league players then it will never be as good as far as quality as the ISL but clearly teams were spending what ever they couldn't and there was a reason panthers were making money even in ISL days (and co-incidentally not winning owt too) and that was due to mixing in at the time much cheaper british players such as morgan and moran, they may not have lit up the league and may have ensured panthers struggled against fully import loaded teams from the likes of Sheffield, Manchester and London but all you need to look at is who is still going? Yes I was not happy as a panthers fan (some things never change eh) but longer term it does mean the club still exist. I just think the panthers need to get the balance between keeping the entity going and running a profit and having a team to excite and potentially win trophies on the ice. To be honest in my opinion the teams in Belfast and Cardiff as good as they are now wouldn't live with the likes of the storm and steelers in their times in the ISL but would easily live with the lower placed teams such as Nottingham. As for the sport moving on, hard to disagree regards stuff such as dealing with head traumas and suicides etc and clearly that needed to improve but I do still look longingly to the time that the sport did have more backbone and taps to the back were just part of the game instead of fans clamouring for more and more bans on players of other teams for the slightest indiscretions...
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 586
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Post by doug on Mar 27, 2019 9:59:31 GMT
Ahh, the old "the ISL was better" defence. As you never mentioned the ISL originally, I assumed you were postulating that the EIHL wasn't getting better. Like it or not, it absolutely is. Is it ISL standard yet? I'd say it isn't far off, at its top level. Giants and Devils this year are, I'd say, pretty much ISL quality rosters. Doubtless you'll think differently. There's a lot less fighting and "entertainment", I grant you, but times have moved on. Players have had serious mental issues, died or committed suicide, and the sporting world has wised up, thank goodness. The last ISL year featured a Panthers team who couldn't have played 4 lines if they'd wanted and featured in their 17 skater roster (with the greatest of respect) James Morgan and Paul Moran. If you genuinely think Joey Martin (a player with basically an extended version of Greg Hadden's CV, pre UK) couldn't have got on an ISL team 4th line (see above) then you're so blinkered I can't help you. Hi Bob, mostly I do like your posts but I have a few observations regarding this one:- Joey Martin quote may have been relevant when you remember the great Adey was employed by Sheffield on their fourth line and some of the great goalie combo's in the likes of Ayr and Storm teams for examples where very very good BUT these teams were VERY expensive and co-incidentally no longer exist. As for the EIHL until you can have complete teams of AHL/ECHL league players then it will never be as good as far as quality as the ISL but clearly teams were spending what ever they couldn't and there was a reason panthers were making money even in ISL days (and co-incidentally not winning owt too) and that was due to mixing in at the time much cheaper british players such as morgan and moran, they may not have lit up the league and may have ensured panthers struggled against fully import loaded teams from the likes of Sheffield, Manchester and London but all you need to look at is who is still going? Yes I was not happy as a panthers fan (some things never change eh) but longer term it does mean the club still exist. I just think the panthers need to get the balance between keeping the entity going and running a profit and having a team to excite and potentially win trophies on the ice. To be honest in my opinion the teams in Belfast and Cardiff as good as they are now wouldn't live with the likes of the storm and steelers in their times in the ISL but would easily live with the lower placed teams such as Nottingham. As for the sport moving on, hard to disagree regards stuff such as dealing with head traumas and suicides etc and clearly that needed to improve but I do still look longingly to the time that the sport did have more backbone and taps to the back were just part of the game instead of fans clamouring for more and more bans on players of other teams for the slightest indiscretions... I don't think a turn of the century ISL Panthers would have had many problems with any of the current EIHL clubs actually Tex. Incidentally, do you still go to games?
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2019 10:08:13 GMT
Ahh, the old "the ISL was better" defence. As you never mentioned the ISL originally, I assumed you were postulating that the EIHL wasn't getting better. Like it or not, it absolutely is. Is it ISL standard yet? I'd say it isn't far off, at its top level. Giants and Devils this year are, I'd say, pretty much ISL quality rosters. Doubtless you'll think differently. There's a lot less fighting and "entertainment", I grant you, but times have moved on. Players have had serious mental issues, died or committed suicide, and the sporting world has wised up, thank goodness. The last ISL year featured a Panthers team who couldn't have played 4 lines if they'd wanted and featured in their 17 skater roster (with the greatest of respect) James Morgan and Paul Moran. If you genuinely think Joey Martin (a player with basically an extended version of Greg Hadden's CV, pre UK) couldn't have got on an ISL team 4th line (see above) then you're so blinkered I can't help you. Hi Bob, mostly I do like your posts but I have a few observations regarding this one:- Joey Martin quote may have been relevant when you remember the great Adey was employed by Sheffield on their fourth line and some of the great goalie combo's in the likes of Ayr and Storm teams for examples where very very good BUT these teams were VERY expensive and co-incidentally no longer exist. As for the EIHL until you can have complete teams of AHL/ECHL league players then it will never be as good as far as quality as the ISL but clearly teams were spending what ever they couldn't and there was a reason panthers were making money even in ISL days (and co-incidentally not winning owt too) and that was due to mixing in at the time much cheaper british players such as morgan and moran, they may not have lit up the league and may have ensured panthers struggled against fully import loaded teams from the likes of Sheffield, Manchester and London but all you need to look at is who is still going? Yes I was not happy as a panthers fan (some things never change eh) but longer term it does mean the club still exist. I just think the panthers need to get the balance between keeping the entity going and running a profit and having a team to excite and potentially win trophies on the ice. To be honest in my opinion the teams in Belfast and Cardiff as good as they are now wouldn't live with the likes of the storm and steelers in their times in the ISL but would easily live with the lower placed teams such as Nottingham. As for the sport moving on, hard to disagree regards stuff such as dealing with head traumas and suicides etc and clearly that needed to improve but I do still look longingly to the time that the sport did have more backbone and taps to the back were just part of the game instead of fans clamouring for more and more bans on players of other teams for the slightest indiscretions... Fair points, no issue with any of them. It's all just conjecture and speculation obviously, but I stand by the Martin quote. He's as good a player as any team in the UK has seen this century. Could he have got on an ISL team above the 4th line? Easily, I'd say, but others may disagree. The ISL wasn't all seasoned AHL/ECHL players though, in all cases. Look at players like Merv Priest (0.82 PPG in the ISL, despite never having played a pro game in NA at all), Wade Bucsis (another with no pro games in NA at all), Blake Knox (1 AHL season and 1 in the German third tier before the UK), Steve Thornton (a season in the old IHL, then a quick stop in Austria and Germany before Cardiff), Greg Hadden (played 1 ECHL season with a cup of coffee in the A before coming over), Jeff Tomlinson (no AHL games, <100 ECHL games and most others in the German second tier). All were top 10 scorers in the ISL, over much bigger names. Maybe not so many such names at the ISL's end, but as you say, by then it was imploding... It's so hard to tell, the ISL was 20+ years ago. Hell, I was a 32 inch waist and had hair, that's how long ago it was...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 11:21:47 GMT
Try watching a superleague game and get back to me... I ll wait The likes of Joey Martin may have scrapped into the 4th line back then if they were lucky . Some back up goalies were better than starting netties now, and it was entertaining!!!! Ahh, the old "the ISL was better" defence. As you never mentioned the ISL originally, I assumed you were postulating that the EIHL wasn't getting better. Like it or not, it absolutely is. Is it ISL standard yet? I'd say it isn't far off, at its top level. Giants and Devils this year are, I'd say, pretty much ISL quality rosters. Doubtless you'll think differently. There's a lot less fighting and "entertainment", I grant you, but times have moved on. Players have had serious mental issues, died or committed suicide, and the sporting world has wised up, thank goodness. The last ISL year featured a Panthers team who couldn't have played 4 lines if they'd wanted and featured in their 17 skater roster (with the greatest of respect) James Morgan and Paul Moran. If you genuinely think Joey Martin (a player with basically an extended version of Greg Hadden's CV, pre UK) couldn't have got on an ISL team 4th line (see above) then you're so blinkered I can't help you. These devils and giants teams would have been lower level in the ISL. The Panthers were never real isl quality in the early years of the NIC with the exception of Paek, Charron, Droiun etc. They were low on quality but I coikr hazard a guess the likes of Masters, Lavigne, Maloney etc would make pretty good EIHL players!! The old steelers, Scottish eagles and storm teams would have wrapped up this years EIHL title in Decemeber !
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Post by messier1851 on Mar 27, 2019 13:22:55 GMT
I feel like players came to the ISL to showcase their skills and earn themselves a move to Germany, Austria or Scandinavia where they could earn big bucks, where as guys coming to the EIHL are often doing so for a final season or as part of a Uni deal with an eye on retirement. Even if it's not intentional, if you know you've got a real world job coming up in the summer you're not going to be putting your body on the line in the same way you would if you were trying to earn that next big move or big contract.
I can't think of too many players who have come to the UK recently and used it as a springboard to a big move.
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Robbie Nud
David Clarke
I really do look like this.
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Robbie Nud on Mar 27, 2019 13:42:38 GMT
Didn't Mosey use it a stepping stone to a shot in the US, also Lepine.
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Post by messier1851 on Mar 27, 2019 15:26:41 GMT
Didn't Mosey use it a stepping stone to a shot in the US, also Lepine. It does happen, but I feel it used to be much more commonplace. Whether that was because it was a better league, was seen as a better league or because players came to the UK with a different attitude I couldn't say.
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Post by texpef on Mar 27, 2019 15:31:34 GMT
Didn't Mosey use it a stepping stone to a shot in the US, also Lepine. Both came as very cheap options with little to no pedigree to count on and both put their bodies on the line to produce the goods against better pedigree players and essentially earned their places...
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2019 16:30:32 GMT
I feel like players came to the ISL to showcase their skills and earn themselves a move to Germany, Austria or Scandinavia where they could earn big bucks, where as guys coming to the EIHL are often doing so for a final season or as part of a Uni deal with an eye on retirement. Even if it's not intentional, if you know you've got a real world job coming up in the summer you're not going to be putting your body on the line in the same way you would if you were trying to earn that next big move or big contract. I can't think of too many players who have come to the UK recently and used it as a springboard to a big move. Interesting point. Who would you be thinking of? ISL to a "bigger" league? Kelly Askew. ISL to DEL, then straight back to ISL after 1 season? Warren Norris? ISL to Slovakia, then EBEL. Not a great move up. I'm struggling to think of any ISL player who went from the ISL to SEL (as it was), Liiga, NLA or Czech for more than a single season. I'm open to people telling me who they might be though. The ISL rosters are littered with players on the way down to retirement, or who retired after 1 last season in the ISL. EIHL to "bigger", I can think of Mosey, Pollastrone, Lannon, Sauve, Zack Phillips (maybe), there are doubtless some others. Depends what you class as "big"? Liiga, SHL, DEL definitely (although I'm struggling to find someone who's done that from the EIHL too) but Allsvenskan? EBEL? DEL2? Denmark?
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