iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Jan 29, 2019 14:01:51 GMT
Really pleased to see the club make a statement like this. They've even highlighted the inconsistancy from DOPS. Well done Panthers for sharing a view rather than nothing. Yep good statement that,well done Panthers. 👍 Makes it quite clear the decision is wrong so think we’ll leave it there.
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Post by bobness on Jan 29, 2019 14:04:13 GMT
Doesn't say much for 'Hollywood Darnell' either, does it... Missed a call that DOPS have deemed as 6 games ban worthy. A hit that most on here have been arguing wasn't even illegal in the first place... Poor bloke can't win.
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Post by ted logan on Jan 29, 2019 14:05:31 GMT
Fair play to the club there. I think that’s a well worded statement. Well done Callum (assume that’s who it was?).
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Post by bobness on Jan 29, 2019 14:10:41 GMT
This is weird. "....but if he is going to be suspended for the same offence as was committed by another player on another team earlier in the year, why did one get a five game ban and Layne Ulmer of the Devils get a three game ban? " I assume they're talking about Declan Balmer, who was suspended earlier in the season for leaving the bench to fight. His is the only suspension handed out this year for leaving the bench. eliteleague.co.uk/2018/10/30/dops-multiple-incidents-during-flames-vs-storm-game-28-10-2018/His suspension was 3 games, same as Ulmer's. Surely Panthers can't make that big a mistake, it just makes them look petty, ill-prepared and ill-informed? It took me about 30 seconds to find that DOPS pronouncement. The biggest DOPS suspension this year has been 3 games. That was Balmer's. No-one has been banned this season for 5 games? (It's making me doubt myself now...) Interestingly, Balmer got a 2+2+G for leaving the bench, Ulmer only a 2+2? Looks like 2+2+G is the "correct" call?
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Post by PantherB on Jan 29, 2019 14:16:52 GMT
This is weird. "....but if he is going to be suspended for the same offence as was committed by another player on another team earlier in the year, why did one get a five game ban and Layne Ulmer of the Devils get a three game ban? " I assume they're talking about Declan Balmer, who was suspended earlier in the season for leaving the bench to fight. His is the only suspension handed out this year for leaving the bench. eliteleague.co.uk/2018/10/30/dops-multiple-incidents-during-flames-vs-storm-game-28-10-2018/His suspension was 3 games, same as Ulmer's. Surely Panthers can't make that big a mistake, it just makes them look petty, ill-prepared and ill-informed? The biggest DOPS suspension this year has been 3 games. That was Balmer's. No-one has been banned this season for 5 games? (It's making me doubt myself now...) Interestingly, Balmer got a 2+2+G for leaving the bench, Ulmer only a 2+2? I think they'll have been referring to Shudra back in October. However, he got 3 for leaving the bench and 2 for assaulting a Braehead player in a 1 man fight which caused an injury.
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Post by bobness on Jan 29, 2019 14:21:17 GMT
This is weird. "....but if he is going to be suspended for the same offence as was committed by another player on another team earlier in the year, why did one get a five game ban and Layne Ulmer of the Devils get a three game ban? " I assume they're talking about Declan Balmer, who was suspended earlier in the season for leaving the bench to fight. His is the only suspension handed out this year for leaving the bench. eliteleague.co.uk/2018/10/30/dops-multiple-incidents-during-flames-vs-storm-game-28-10-2018/His suspension was 3 games, same as Ulmer's. Surely Panthers can't make that big a mistake, it just makes them look petty, ill-prepared and ill-informed? The biggest DOPS suspension this year has been 3 games. That was Balmer's. No-one has been banned this season for 5 games? (It's making me doubt myself now...) Interestingly, Balmer got a 2+2+G for leaving the bench, Ulmer only a 2+2? I think they'll have been referring to Shudra back in October. However, he got 3 for leaving the bench and 2 for assaulting a Braehead player in a 1 man fight which caused an injury. You're absolutely right, I missed that one. I'm in the corner, feeling shame. However, the point still stands, Shudra got 3 games (and a 2+2+G at the time) for leaving the bench. The other 2 games was for it being a "one man" fight. It's not "the same offence". Nice and consistent by DOPS, to be fair. 3 players leaving the bench, 3 3 games suspensions. I'm off to update my DOPS spreadsheet...
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Jan 29, 2019 14:25:24 GMT
Doesn't say much for 'Hollywood Darnell' either, does it... Missed a call that DOPS have deemed as 6 games ban worthy. A hit that most on here have been arguing wasn't even illegal in the first place... Poor bloke can't win. Well the view of those on here doesn't matter at all really.
DOPS though clearly does, the 'premier' ref getting such a call so clearly wrong in their eyes....
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
Simply Clantastic!
Posts: 412
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Post by Discoray on Jan 29, 2019 14:34:02 GMT
I'd call it a laughable one. Since in this league the clubs directly run, vote on, and agree everything that goes on. The club is basically blaming itself as well for it's role in what happened, since they agreed to things such as the running of DOPS, the appeals threshold etc. This only highlights once more why we need a body completely separate from the EIHL to both run it and the discipline aspect. It's never going to happen though, therefore we will always have conflicts of interests and accusations of bias from someone no matter what happens to who.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 14:48:59 GMT
Who wants a bet the next time a devils or Steelers play commits something similar they get handed a 8 game ban 🤔😉
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Post by shakyjk on Jan 29, 2019 14:49:56 GMT
Rissling had no other way to stop the goalscoring chance? - He has a stick, has he not?
Can't appeal less than 8 games? - Last line of the DOPS FAQ on appeals is "This was agreed by all 12 teams who make up the board"
5 game suspension for winning the fight? - As noted above, if it's the MK one, he was awarded 3 for leaving the bench plus another 2 for 'fighting' a player who wasn't fighting back. Good win for him there. And perfectly consistent with all suspensions awarded for leaving the bench this year.
These things are not hard to find, literally checked up this stuff within 2 minutes of Google searching - including that before the EIHL board added that amendment the rule was that all suspensions over 3 games could be appealed, but they changed it because it was too much work than they could be bothered with. Seems that the panthers could have saved their complaints for a ruling that was more unfair to them, and one which the DOPS ruling hadn't explained in almost apologetic terms as far as showing they understood the limitations the players had to react - but a player WAS injured by a check to the head by a player who had been suspended for checking to the head before. Their hands were pretty much tied tbh.
And the press release is silly.
As a clan fan, It's nice to see the public recognition for the potential online audience though - hope your owner was paying attention ;-)
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Post by bobness on Jan 29, 2019 15:01:44 GMT
Well the view of those on here doesn't matter at all really. Well said.
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Post by bobness on Jan 29, 2019 15:05:20 GMT
A hit that most on here have been arguing wasn't even illegal in the first place... Poor bloke can't win. Well the view of those on here doesn't matter at all really.
DOPS though clearly does, the 'premier' ref getting such a call so clearly wrong in their eyes....
That's why we have DOPS (post game) and reviews (in game) in the first place, to ensure that "justice" is done, and the "right" decision is made, even if "missed" by the refs. Same as VAR in football and reviews in cricket, albeit that's all "at the time"? I wouldn't have liked to make the call at the time, in real time.
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Jan 29, 2019 15:30:22 GMT
Well the view of those on here doesn't matter at all really.
DOPS though clearly does, the 'premier' ref getting such a call so clearly wrong in their eyes....
I wouldn't have liked to make the call at the time, in real time. & that's the get out clause for Darnell, DOPS & the EIHL.
'Arguably' a subjective call in slow mo, so a real tough one to get right in 'real time'.
Whether or not we buy any of that is our own prerogative.
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voth26
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 115
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Post by voth26 on Jan 29, 2019 15:30:59 GMT
What a surprise there's no welsh on here moaning today giving their 'opinion' 🙄 Well we don't want disappoint you pidge, so here's a Welsh man on your forum 😉. I'm surprised he wasn't given extra for punching Ulmerwhen he was on the ice and when his shirt was over his head as they stood by the plexi.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 15:35:47 GMT
What a surprise there's no welsh on here moaning today giving their 'opinion' 🙄 Well we don't want disappoint you pidge, so here's a Welsh man on your forum 😉. I'm surprised he wasn't given extra for punching Ulmerwhen he was on the ice and when his shirt was over his head as they stood by the plexi. I never had the devils down as a team of cowards it takes a player to skate off the bench rather than 4 other clowns wearing ref and white on the ice to do something about it eh. Wonder if Mosey makes a miraculous recovery for Saturday..🤔
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voth26
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 115
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Post by voth26 on Jan 29, 2019 15:49:36 GMT
Well we don't want disappoint you pidge, so here's a Welsh man on your forum 😉. I'm surprised he wasn't given extra for punching Ulmerwhen he was on the ice and when his shirt was over his head as they stood by the plexi. I never had the devils down as a team of cowards it takes a player to skate off the bench rather than 4 other clowns wearing ref and white on the ice to do something about it eh. Wonder if Mosey makes a miraculous recovery for Saturday..🤔 Who knows? Hope he does to be honest, genuine question why are you so wound up about the devil's players on the ice and what they did/didn't do?
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loupowell52
Robert Lachowicz
Grape Aficionado
Posts: 444
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Post by loupowell52 on Jan 29, 2019 16:23:36 GMT
6 game ban simply ridiculous. Smacks of those who want to sanitise hockey including banning fighting. This sport was, is and, hopefully, always will be a physical game. No right minded people will ever want any player to suffer serious injury but hey, if you don't like the physical element go buy a ticket for the ballet.
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Post by ojlloyd on Jan 29, 2019 16:38:37 GMT
He got hit in the face. It’s all over twitter, still photos from the footage where you can clearly see contact between face and shoulder. You’re either avoiding them on purpose or you genuinely haven’t seen them. If it’s the latter I’d advise you go check them out. I haven’t seen fans from other teams calling this hit acceptable, only Panthers fans. I’d also relax a bit about convicting anyone, this isn’t the criminal court system, I can’t imagine DOPS’ evidential standard is anywhere near that. The blown call by the refs was probably because it was all at very high speed, but it doesn’t make them look the best. I don’t do twitter so no I haven’t seen it. But a still shot confirms absolutely nothing in a case where movement is involved because you can just use the picture that suits your purpose. In football if a player goes for a tackle and wins the ball cleanly first then follows through accidentally and breaks an opponents leg he would be not guilty,but if you simply produced a still shot of the moment of impact with the guys leg that looks totally different , As for other teams,not that it matters a jot but I think we’ve had one on here so far,from Belfast and he takes exactly the same view I do that it was chest first. I’m sorry, but what you’ve said there is quite silly. Where there are still images from a video showing clear contact between shoulder and head, it’s not cherry picking, it’s just evidence of there being contact. How you can argue so vociferously about something you haven’t actually looked back at I don’t know, but I suspect it’s because he’s a Panthers player. I’ll leave at the below, because arguing with someone who doesn’t accept unequivocal evidence is pointless. Like a high tackle in rugby, you can moan all you like about the attacker not being upright, or any height difference, but the rules are clear - person making the hit has to make sure he doesn’t hit head first. He hit Mosey in the head. Not only is there video and picture evidence, but there is now a DOPS decision as well, who do also have access to other cameras. He didn’t Tom Wilson him by smashing him in the head on purpose, but he didn’t do what is required of him as the defending player to stay within the rules. That’s it. Some Panthers’ fans are doing a very good impression of Sheffield fans here, as if there’s some conspiracy against you despite the decision being right. I look forward to the next meeting between the teams, should be feisty.
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Post by wgray on Jan 29, 2019 16:39:23 GMT
Deep down I thought Rissling would get a ban but 6 games is ridiculous. There is contact with the head due to the size difference, but from that video footage how can they categorically say the head was the initial point of contact? There is no such thing as "clean" contact to the head, and height differences cannot ever be used as a reason/excuse. Both the NHL/IIHF have run with those conventions long before DOPS in the EIHL came to be. One can argue over the length of the ban (I thought 4 games would be enough) but there was never going to be any question a ban was coming. Yes I agree it cant be clean if there is contact to the head, which is why I put I deep down I thought there would be a ban. All I’m thinking is, if the head isn’t the initial POC and DOPS are acknowledging that the contact with the head wasn’t intentional then surely the ban should have been much less. What’s done is done now anyway.
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Post by dill1015 on Jan 29, 2019 16:48:17 GMT
[/quote] I look forward to the next meeting between the teams, should be feisty.[/quote]
No it wont, because who wants a ban. That day is dead im afraid. And its thanks to decissions like this.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Jan 29, 2019 17:02:15 GMT
I don’t do twitter so no I haven’t seen it. But a still shot confirms absolutely nothing in a case where movement is involved because you can just use the picture that suits your purpose. In football if a player goes for a tackle and wins the ball cleanly first then follows through accidentally and breaks an opponents leg he would be not guilty,but if you simply produced a still shot of the moment of impact with the guys leg that looks totally different , As for other teams,not that it matters a jot but I think we’ve had one on here so far,from Belfast and he takes exactly the same view I do that it was chest first. I’m sorry, but what you’ve said there is quite silly. Where there are still images from a video showing clear contact between shoulder and head, it’s not cherry picking, it’s just evidence of there being contact. How you can argue so vociferously about something you haven’t actually looked back at I don’t know, but I suspect it’s because he’s a Panthers player. I’ll leave at the below, because arguing with someone who doesn’t accept unequivocal evidence is pointless. Like a high tackle in rugby, you can moan all you like about the attacker not being upright, or any height difference, but the rules are clear - person making the hit has to make sure he doesn’t hit head first. He hit Mosey in the head. Not only is there video and picture evidence, but there is now a DOPS decision as well, who do also have access to other cameras. He didn’t Tom Wilson him by smashing him in the head on purpose, but he didn’t do what is required of him as the defending player to stay within the rules. That’s it. Some Panthers’ fans are doing a very good impression of Sheffield fans here, as if there’s some conspiracy against you despite the decision being right. I look forward to the next meeting between the teams, should be feisty. 🙄🤣
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Post by dill1015 on Jan 29, 2019 17:07:04 GMT
For me this whole situation is ridiculous. And exactly whats wrong with the modern game.
I was sat opposite side to the camera in line with the goal and i thought at the time it was a good hit. The replay showed exactly what i thought i saw. Risiling make solid contact with Moseys sholder/chest. You can clearly see that Moseys head makes forward motion after contact. The PPOC was not the head. Now Mosey may have hit his head after but this should NOT be punished.
It may be that by the letter of the law this is the right call. But the law is wrong! It is crazy that a player can skate around with his head down and take zero reaponsibility for what happens.
Everyone seems to agree that Risling made every effort to make a clean hit, arms down, feet on the ice, didnt charge, went for the body. He has basically been penalised for being too big.
Im all for banning players who go out looking to nuke players with dirty hits. But this wasnt one, it was just really hard.
Players carrying the puck need to take responsibility for the positions they put themselves in. It is totally unreasonable to put all accountability on one player in these situations. The checking player cant control what the puck carrier will do at the last second.
I happen to agree that 3 games for Ulmer is dumb aswell. Players should be able to stand up for thiwr team mates. I hate the instigator rule for this reason aswell.
This and other decissins like it are eroding the sport i once loved. Its has always been a physical game and i loved the mix of aggresion speed and skill. But that game barely exists anymore. And i fear it will be completey gone in a few years.
P.s. Please that Panthers have voiced a willingness to keep the game physical.
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
Simply Clantastic!
Posts: 412
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Post by Discoray on Jan 29, 2019 17:08:31 GMT
I look forward to the next meeting between the teams, should be feisty.[/quote] No it wont, because who wants a ban. That day is dead im afraid. And its thanks to decissions like this. [/quote] When it comes between bans for hits that impact the head and result in brain injuries, verses allowing them with no punishment for one's entertainment, there is only going to be one winner.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 17:12:54 GMT
I never had the devils down as a team of cowards it takes a player to skate off the bench rather than 4 other clowns wearing ref and white on the ice to do something about it eh. Wonder if Mosey makes a miraculous recovery for Saturday..🤔 Who knows? Hope he does to be honest, genuine question why are you so wound up about the devil's players on the ice and what they did/didn't do? Think what you've just said and get back to me as that last statement is just silly and dumb
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Post by dill1015 on Jan 29, 2019 17:48:37 GMT
I look forward to the next meeting between the teams, should be feisty. No it wont, because who wants a ban. That day is dead im afraid. And its thanks to decissions like this. [/quote] When it comes between bans for hits that impact the head and result in brain injuries, verses allowing them with no punishment for one's entertainment, there is only going to be one winner.[/quote] Well i guess fighting will be on its way out soon aswell then.
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