The Flying Shirt
Paul Adey
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 16, 2018 20:55:15 GMT
What do you think got that waste of space Lawrence gassed on game day a while back? For us or Sheffield? A few week ago
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Post by wgray on Dec 16, 2018 21:37:31 GMT
I may be wrong,but something is telling me that Cherno ain’t all it first seemed or what we expected on the coaching front. Yes it all seems a bit errr.....grey and dull. 😞 Chernomaz has so far this season claimed we’ll be physical, quick, hardworking, exciting, making teams fear us and making them play our style of hockey. All of which have yet to come true He did say that but has he got the right team to play his way? Personally I don’t think we have. He signed a team which he thought would play like that, we saw glimpses of it at the start of the season but I think he got a few signings wrong, Doty and Biggs were two questionable ones, who partly played how he wanted, but ultimately they didn’t have the whole package and they have since departed. If you look at who we have brought in, Bolduc, Tvrdon, and Richard, I think Bolduc is the only one who plays the way Rich wants, he gets to the gritty areas, battles hard, uses his size, he isn’t the quickest but he works hard and can make plays. It’s very difficult to find exactly what you want once seasons have commenced but I think all three of them bring more than Biggs and Doty. Tvrdon has good playmaking ability but doesn’t have the speed, work rate and physicality to chase pucks deep into a corner, Richard has the speed and work rate but he doesn’t have the physicality to play how he wants. I also feel the team lacks balance in the forward ranks, we’ve only got 3 righties and that’s including Rheault, the amount of pucks that are falling onto backhands, can’t be taken in stride, can’t be hit first time because we’ve got to reposition, it all seems very disjointed. We need Rheault and Hendo back as soon as possible (next weekend would be nice) to shake things up, get players working harder for their place and to buy into Rich’s way of playing. This season was always going to be tough and it was going to be a learning curve for Rich on a number of things. He will have learnt a lot about the style of play in our league, the quality of our Brits, the capability of the people around him and the culture of the club. He’s made mistakes in some of his recruitment and he has tried to rectify it, once everyone is fit he can make changes to the lineup for the better, as a way of getting everyone to buy in. He needs time. Now is not the time to turn on Chernomaz. Some good news regarding Rheault and Henderson would be appreciated please Panthers.
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Fez
Lorne Smith
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Post by Fez on Dec 16, 2018 21:50:11 GMT
A few thoughts from a now occasional but historically regular attender:
You have to say great performance by Guildford. Proper, genuine team vs collection of individuals. Reminded me of Simms' saying a few years ago - Panthers sign CVs; Steelers sign players. This permeates through to the performances and has done for years. It's why they can turn up in cups but never get it done in the league.
Didn't think we were all that bad in the first 2 periods but obviously the 3rd was woeful.
When is the penny gonna drop that we have too many imports in this league? I mean, seriously. How many players in this league will be remembered in 10 years time? How many who have played in the league in the last 10 years were worth paying to watch? Talk about journeymen. They're just interchangeable paycheck players. They don't care about playing for us, and to be honest why should they? I'd rather watch the local lads busting a gut with say 6 genuinely stand-out imports to add a bit of quality over these here-today-gone-tomorrow nobodys.
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DaveE
David Clarke
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Post by DaveE on Dec 16, 2018 23:12:43 GMT
A lot of bad vibes on here tonight. Have we lost or something?
👀
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Post by spik on Dec 16, 2018 23:18:14 GMT
A lot of bad vibes on here tonight. Have we lost or something? 👀 Yup, more shots on goal and everything the viewing fans could add that are causing concern.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Dec 16, 2018 23:20:11 GMT
Chernomaz has so far this season claimed we’ll be physical, quick, hardworking, exciting, making teams fear us and making them play our style of hockey. All of which have yet to come true He did say that but has he got the right team to play his way? Personally I don’t think we have. He signed a team which he thought would play like that, we saw glimpses of it at the start of the season but I think he got a few signings wrong, Doty and Biggs were two questionable ones, who partly played how he wanted, but ultimately they didn’t have the whole package and they have since departed. If you look at who we have brought in, Bolduc, Tvrdon, and Richard, I think Bolduc is the only one who plays the way Rich wants, he gets to the gritty areas, battles hard, uses his size, he isn’t the quickest but he works hard and can make plays. It’s very difficult to find exactly what you want once seasons have commenced but I think all three of them bring more than Biggs and Doty. Tvrdon has good playmaking ability but doesn’t have the speed, work rate and physicality to chase pucks deep into a corner, Richard has the speed and work rate but he doesn’t have the physicality to play how he wants. I also feel the team lacks balance in the forward ranks, we’ve only got 3 righties and that’s including Rheault, the amount of pucks that are falling onto backhands, can’t be taken in stride, can’t be hit first time because we’ve got to reposition, it all seems very disjointed. We need Rheault and Hendo back as soon as possible (next weekend would be nice) to shake things up, get players working harder for their place and to buy into Rich’s way of playing. This season was always going to be tough and it was going to be a learning curve for Rich on a number of things. He will have learnt a lot about the style of play in our league, the quality of our Brits, the capability of the people around him and the culture of the club. He’s made mistakes in some of his recruitment and he has tried to rectify it, once everyone is fit he can make changes to the lineup for the better, as a way of getting everyone to buy in. He needs time. Now is not the time to turn on Chernomaz. Some good news regarding Rheault and Henderson would be appreciated please Panthers. is it that he’s not signed the right players or is it that the style of team he’s built is not successful in this league anymore? When was the last time that a team that was built like ours, actually successful?
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on Dec 17, 2018 0:45:03 GMT
Getting used to leaving on the final seconds, should have gone earlier could have watched my football team win in the bar instead, got to say we were so bad it was funny in a black humour sort of way, for me too many fancy dan moves when they need to just get back to the basics, also every other team lately seems tougher than us with any puck retention. The 5 on 3 period showed exactly whats wrong no idea no trying to move their players or the N M around and you knew straight after it had finished they would score.
We again played like a team of strangers not sure about the players being on the same page i think they were not even reading the same book today. We have no leaders on the ice at all
This isnt close to good enough.
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Post by wgray on Dec 17, 2018 2:04:52 GMT
He did say that but has he got the right team to play his way? Personally I don’t think we have. He signed a team which he thought would play like that, we saw glimpses of it at the start of the season but I think he got a few signings wrong, Doty and Biggs were two questionable ones, who partly played how he wanted, but ultimately they didn’t have the whole package and they have since departed. If you look at who we have brought in, Bolduc, Tvrdon, and Richard, I think Bolduc is the only one who plays the way Rich wants, he gets to the gritty areas, battles hard, uses his size, he isn’t the quickest but he works hard and can make plays. It’s very difficult to find exactly what you want once seasons have commenced but I think all three of them bring more than Biggs and Doty. Tvrdon has good playmaking ability but doesn’t have the speed, work rate and physicality to chase pucks deep into a corner, Richard has the speed and work rate but he doesn’t have the physicality to play how he wants. I also feel the team lacks balance in the forward ranks, we’ve only got 3 righties and that’s including Rheault, the amount of pucks that are falling onto backhands, can’t be taken in stride, can’t be hit first time because we’ve got to reposition, it all seems very disjointed. We need Rheault and Hendo back as soon as possible (next weekend would be nice) to shake things up, get players working harder for their place and to buy into Rich’s way of playing. This season was always going to be tough and it was going to be a learning curve for Rich on a number of things. He will have learnt a lot about the style of play in our league, the quality of our Brits, the capability of the people around him and the culture of the club. He’s made mistakes in some of his recruitment and he has tried to rectify it, once everyone is fit he can make changes to the lineup for the better, as a way of getting everyone to buy in. He needs time. Now is not the time to turn on Chernomaz. Some good news regarding Rheault and Henderson would be appreciated please Panthers. is it that he’s not signed the right players or is it that the style of team he’s built is not successful in this league anymore? When was the last time that a team that was built like ours, actually successful? I can’t ever recall a team that plays with our intended style winning the league, Cardiff have had good size and physicality throughout their roster for the last two seasons but they play differently. The way Cherno wants us to play, with high intensity, being physical and sacrificing the body, is difficult for 60 games, for it to be a success you need to have a fit, hungry and diminutive roster without any passengers, and I think we don’t have these players. I think Cherno has got to tweak it if we are going to be successful this season, the only line which is producing is the one that isn’t putting the puck in deep, because it’s pointless with Guptill and Kovacs. They set up to breakout as a set of three and transition to create opportunities quickly, which is working, but they are the only ones producing. He’s got to get Pither firing, he needs to utilise him in a similar way as them three. I think Pither needs to play with different players who don’t slow his play down and compliment him on the breakout, Tvrdon and Bolduc aren’t doing that. I think we will see Rheault and Henderson go straight onto a line with Pither when they return, they had some chemistry before Rheault was injured and it may boost Pither’s confidence putting him with players he knows he was successful with. What do you think we need to do?😂
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Post by nightwish on Dec 17, 2018 7:48:00 GMT
5,500 people turned up to watch the game do you seriously think Moran and Black give a rats ass what fans think - will be a sell out game with Shuff, plenty will turn up on New Year’s Eve against Blaze.
I’m afraid all your concerns about the team and club just fall on deaf ears as long as the ££££ roll in.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Dec 17, 2018 9:00:04 GMT
Yes that may be true (I disagree and will always support NB decisions), but if the team continues to perform poorly and lose, that may affect attendance & sponsors, which then has an affect on revenue. I think the coach is struggling, I think he hasn't yet figured out how to get the best from the players (constant changing of lines), and is clearly frustrated, hence his response to the 'performances' over the weekend. He's also not been successful with the mid season signings, for me Bolduc, Tvrdon and Richard have brought nothing so far. Ultimately the coach will have the season and only then can we judge if he's made progress.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Dec 17, 2018 9:10:43 GMT
Yes that may be true (I disagree and will always support NB decisions), but if the team continues to perform poorly and lose, that may affect attendance & sponsors, which then has an affect on revenue. I think the coach is struggling, I think he hasn't yet figured out how to get the best from the players (constant changing of lines), and is clearly frustrated, hence his response to the 'performances' over the weekend. He's also not been successful with the mid season signings, for me Bolduc, Tvrdon and Richard have brought nothing so far. Ultimately the coach will have the season and only then can we judge if he's made progress. It’s already happening,attendances are dropping at the NIC and down this season on previous years. According to EIHL figures Panthers are no longer top of the crowd charts......the Steelers are ! Who was it who said that webcasts hit attendances ? Oh yes it was you Mr Black !!
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Dec 17, 2018 9:35:40 GMT
is it that he’s not signed the right players or is it that the style of team he’s built is not successful in this league anymore? When was the last time that a team that was built like ours, actually successful? I can’t ever recall a team that plays with our intended style winning the league, Cardiff have had good size and physicality throughout their roster for the last two seasons but they play differently. The way Cherno wants us to play, with high intensity, being physical and sacrificing the body, is difficult for 60 games, for it to be a success you need to have a fit, hungry and diminutive roster without any passengers, and I think we don’t have these players. I think Cherno has got to tweak it if we are going to be successful this season, the only line which is producing is the one that isn’t putting the puck in deep, because it’s pointless with Guptill and Kovacs. They set up to breakout as a set of three and transition to create opportunities quickly, which is working, but they are the only ones producing. He’s got to get Pither firing, he needs to utilise him in a similar way as them three. I think Pither needs to play with different players who don’t slow his play down and compliment him on the breakout, Tvrdon and Bolduc aren’t doing that. I think we will see Rheault and Henderson go straight onto a line with Pither when they return, they had some chemistry before Rheault was injured and it may boost Pither’s confidence putting him with players he knows he was successful with. What do you think we need to do?😂 To me this season has been an experiment in terms of the type of team we’ve built and it hasn’t worked, instead of trying again next season and potentially getting the same outcome, I think we should follow the format that we know has been successful.
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Pies
Forum Moderator
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Post by Pies on Dec 17, 2018 10:42:04 GMT
Okay so in the interests of a a lot of accusations being thrown around, I have deleted any comments about the pub in question and the players.
May I remind you all, unless there is concrete evidence, you are responsible for your own comments but we will not be a conduit for these comments.
There will be no further discussion on this unless people are willing to name their sources and back it with evidence.
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Robbie Nud
David Clarke
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Post by Robbie Nud on Dec 17, 2018 11:10:13 GMT
Very poor, poor performance; once again a small number of players putting in the effort but for the most... I see that the league did decide to punish us for lepine's spearing penalty by not banning him!!
Still at least we have some games against the lower and weaker opposition to give us a boost leading into the Christmas schedule. (sarcasm mode off)
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Post by John Casey on Dec 17, 2018 11:29:50 GMT
Very poor, poor performance; once again a small number of players putting in the effort but for the most... I see that the league did decide to punish us for lepine's spearing penalty by not banning him!! Still at least we have some games against the lower and weaker opposition to give us a boost leading into the Christmas schedule. (sarcasm mode off) Trouble is there are no weak teams, just teams going through slumps. Case in point, we thrashed Glasgow 7-2 recently but since then, Glasgow beat Sheffield, Belfast and overturned a defecit in Cardiff in The Challenge Cup. That result against Glasgow looks better every week.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Dec 17, 2018 12:08:47 GMT
Very poor, poor performance; once again a small number of players putting in the effort but for the most... I see that the league did decide to punish us for lepine's spearing penalty by not banning him!! Still at least we have some games against the lower and weaker opposition to give us a boost leading into the Christmas schedule. (sarcasm mode off) Trouble is there are no weak teams, just teams going through slumps. Case in point, we thrashed Glasgow 7-2 recently but since then, Glasgow beat Sheffield, Belfast and overturned a defecit in Cardiff in The Challenge Cup. That result against Glasgow looks better every week. You can argue there are no weak teams yes. Our team Panthers isn’t much different to most of the other teams....but it should be. With our resources Panthers fans are being shortchanged,because we could and should be so so much better player quality wise. We just don’t want to be that’s the frustration and the problem !
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Dec 17, 2018 13:02:13 GMT
Trouble is there are no weak teams, just teams going through slumps. Case in point, we thrashed Glasgow 7-2 recently but since then, Glasgow beat Sheffield, Belfast and overturned a defecit in Cardiff in The Challenge Cup. That result against Glasgow looks better every week. You can argue there are no weak teams yes. Our team Panthers isn’t much different to most of the other teams....but it should be. With our resources Panthers fans are being shortchanged,because we could and should be so so much better player quality wise. We just don’t want to be that’s the frustration and the problem ! But we signed what was on paper a quality team. Take Pither. Last season the general opinion was that he should be re-signed. Take Hurtubise. People remember him as a goal scorer at Edinburgh, his CV since bears this out. Take Lepine. another one people were glad to see back. So what's happened ? have they dropped off, were they not as good, are they playing in poor systems ? I think the team is much better than what we are playing, perhaps when Henderson and Rheault get back we can leave out the non-performers.
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bobness
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Post by bobness on Dec 17, 2018 13:04:40 GMT
But no matter who the players are, teams will lose games, play badly, look disjointed, from time to time. The best players have bad games more often than you might think. Don't get me wrong, there's 2 poor results right there this weekend, but this idea that "Panthers should just be the best, with the "resources" we have" is a strange one to these ears.
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 17, 2018 13:13:56 GMT
But no matter who the players are, teams will lose games, play badly, look disjointed, from time to time. The best players have bad games more often than you might think. Don't get me wrong, there's 2 poor results right there this weekend, but this idea that "Panthers should just be the best, with the "resources" we have" is a strange one to these ears. What a strange thing to say... Why have Man City got better players than Huddersfield and why do they win more games?
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Post by pingchowchi on Dec 17, 2018 13:22:42 GMT
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Dec 17, 2018 13:23:22 GMT
But no matter who the players are, teams will lose games, play badly, look disjointed, from time to time. The best players have bad games more often than you might think. Don't get me wrong, there's 2 poor results right there this weekend, but this idea that "Panthers should just be the best, with the "resources" we have" is a strange one to these ears. What a strange thing to say... Why have Man City got better players than Huddersfield and why do they win more games? Exactly Because Man City’s owners want to win and Panthers don’t want to win enough. In this league,even upping the player budget by 20% would make a huge difference but barely dent the profits. If you could easily afford to drive a new Jag how many people would opt to drive a second had mondeo ? Because that’s what Panthers do !
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 17, 2018 13:26:35 GMT
Thanks, exactly my point. We have more money so we should do a lot better than we do.
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Post by pingchowchi on Dec 17, 2018 13:33:07 GMT
But how do you know how much money we get?
As someone has pointed out several times this very week that freebie tickets are being dished out regularly and that the Steelers have a higher attendance etc. Etc.
In fact didn't you yourself say that you attended on a freebie?
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 17, 2018 13:36:12 GMT
But how do you know how much money we get? As someone has pointed out several times this very week that freebie tickets are being dished out regularly and that the Steelers have a higher attendance etc. Etc. In fact didn't you yourself say that you attended on a freebie? Yeah I did, Just have a look at the accounts and do some very basic sums. It's all there for people to see but people don't want to know / admit it.
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Higgy
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Post by Higgy on Dec 17, 2018 13:37:04 GMT
Yes that may be true (I disagree and will always support NB decisions), but if the team continues to perform poorly and lose, that may affect attendance & sponsors, which then has an affect on revenue. I think the coach is struggling, I think he hasn't yet figured out how to get the best from the players (constant changing of lines), and is clearly frustrated, hence his response to the 'performances' over the weekend. He's also not been successful with the mid season signings, for me Bolduc, Tvrdon and Richard have brought nothing so far. Ultimately the coach will have the season and only then can we judge if he's made progress. It’s already happening,attendances are dropping at the NIC and down this season on previous years. According to EIHL figures Panthers are no longer top of the crowd charts......the Steelers are ! Who was it who said that webcasts hit attendances ? Oh yes it was you Mr Black !! Indeed,the game on Friday had plenty of empty seats which are usually taken by either season ticket holders or at least sold on game day. I know it is Xmas party season and the traffic was bad but the attendance of actual people must have been a lot lower than they advertised.
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