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Post by kezypanther on May 12, 2017 16:49:16 GMT
I would take Joel. thought he was good at Clan and with another 3 years under his belt should be better. Good sized forward as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 16:52:28 GMT
I'd take him....on the 3rd line. He'd probably be what we wanted Lawrence to be as a 2nd line centre.
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deke
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by deke on May 12, 2017 17:55:57 GMT
I'd take him....on the 3rd line. He'd probably be what we wanted Lawrence to be as a 2nd line centre. Not drunk?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on May 12, 2017 18:31:18 GMT
I'd want a better player than him for a Uni deal.
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Post by Rob Scott on May 13, 2017 13:54:12 GMT
Engelage has signed for Krefeld so we might get to see him at the NIC after all.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 14:16:54 GMT
Don't want champagne. Pretty average!!
Spend some money for once Black!!
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iginla
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Post by iginla on May 13, 2017 17:22:41 GMT
Don't want champagne. Pretty average!! Spend some money for once Black!! Neilson is scouring all the Canadian and USA university teams just for you Pidge !
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 17:36:31 GMT
Don't want champagne. Pretty average!! Spend some money for once Black!! Neilson is scouring all the Canadian and USA university teams just for you Pidge ! Don't joke about it
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on May 13, 2017 18:00:15 GMT
Neilson is scouring all the Canadian and USA university teams just for you Pidge ! Don't joke about it I'm not ! 😂
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 22:55:55 GMT
If they are decent university players they are headed to the OHL then draft day lol. If they ain't then they won't be any good. What will college kids win
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 9:50:03 GMT
He'd probably be what we wanted Lawrence to be as a 2nd line centre. Not drunk? Couldn't care less if he was drunk or not so long as he produced as he did in his first & second seasons with us albeit in very different roles. Even last season he almost went at a point per game, I don't overly put all the blame on him for last season as he seemed to be trying to play a combination of both roles from the years prior when he should in fact have been put into one or the other which is clearly how you get the most out of him (so that lies at Corey's feet). If Champagne has matured as a player (captain at Amiens the last 2 seasons so it's safe to assume he has) he could easily put up the numbers Lawrence did in his first season whilst playing a strong 2 way game.
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deke
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by deke on May 14, 2017 10:03:48 GMT
OK someone went full blown serious on something that was clearly a two worded joke. Yes when Larry was on form he was great problem was he was very hot and cold. One game excellent and then didn't turn up for the next few.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 10:20:18 GMT
OK someone went full blown serious on something that was clearly a two worded joke. Yes when Larry was on form he was great problem was he was very hot and cold. One game excellent and then didn't turn up for the next few. It was unnecessary, non relevant to the point I was making and not funny.
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Post by sevcik on May 14, 2017 15:13:26 GMT
Couldn't care less if he was drunk or not so long as he produced as he did in his first & second seasons with us albeit in very different roles. Even last season he almost went at a point per game, I don't overly put all the blame on him for last season as he seemed to be trying to play a combination of both roles from the years prior when he should in fact have been put into one or the other which is clearly how you get the most out of him (so that lies at Corey's feet). If Champagne has matured as a player (captain at Amiens the last 2 seasons so it's safe to assume he has) he could easily put up the numbers Lawrence did in his first season whilst playing a strong 2 way game. First off he is a professional sportsman therefore it does matter whether he's drunk whilst playing. He should never be so. If he (or any other player) was ever drunk whilst playing it is both disrespectful to the club and also to the fans who contributed to his wages. Alcohol aside when did he consistently produce consistently other than his second season? Even then it was only because he wanted to come back with his mates. The team we had that 1st season he was here was the poorest we had had in years To be top or near top scorer on that team wasn't a big achievement as there was little quality in it. Even that season he coasted many games. That's why many on here didn't want him back when he signed December of the following season. I watched all bar one home game last season and a fair few games away. I can't remember a single game where he put effort in for more than two periods. And normally it was one period if you were lucky Playing to full effort for only 5-10 mins in a game and scoring a goal is not producing in my book. The thing is Lawrence could have been one of the best imports we've had in recent years if he applied himself and made hockey his priority. He had all the talent to be at least a career AHLer. Instead he turned into Jade Galbraith mark 2. Though Galbraith put in far more effort
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deke
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by deke on May 14, 2017 17:53:06 GMT
OK someone went full blown serious on something that was clearly a two worded joke. Yes when Larry was on form he was great problem was he was very hot and cold. One game excellent and then didn't turn up for the next few. It was unnecessary, non relevant to the point I was making and not funny. Difference of opinion I think. I think it is relevant if a hockey player playing for a professional team is drunk playing. I thought it was funny and raised a smile or two at least I'm sure. Your fully within your rights to disagree.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 16:21:19 GMT
Couldn't care less if he was drunk or not so long as he produced as he did in his first & second seasons with us albeit in very different roles. Even last season he almost went at a point per game, I don't overly put all the blame on him for last season as he seemed to be trying to play a combination of both roles from the years prior when he should in fact have been put into one or the other which is clearly how you get the most out of him (so that lies at Corey's feet). If Champagne has matured as a player (captain at Amiens the last 2 seasons so it's safe to assume he has) he could easily put up the numbers Lawrence did in his first season whilst playing a strong 2 way game. First off he is a professional sportsman therefore it does matter whether he's drunk whilst playing. He should never be so. If he (or any other player) was ever drunk whilst playing it is both disrespectful to the club and also to the fans who contributed to his wages. Alcohol aside when did he consistently produce consistently other than his second season? Even then it was only because he wanted to come back with his mates. The team we had that 1st season he was here was the poorest we had had in years To be top or near top scorer on that team wasn't a big achievement as there was little quality in it. Even that season he coasted many games. That's why many on here didn't want him back when he signed December of the following season. I watched all bar one home game last season and a fair few games away. I can't remember a single game where he put effort in for more than two periods. And normally it was one period if you were lucky Playing to full effort for only 5-10 mins in a game and scoring a goal is not producing in my book. The thing is Lawrence could have been one of the best imports we've had in recent years if he applied himself and made hockey his priority. He had all the talent to be at least a career AHLer. Instead he turned into Jade Galbraith mark 2. Though Galbraith put in far more effort If he's producing it doesn't really matter, I'm by no means encouraging it as a behaviour but if he does it and functions who cares? It's not ideal my any stretch of the imagination (from stories I've heard he has a definite problem that he needs to get sorted out because I question how functional a human being he's going to be once he's done with ice hockey), but it's not disrespectful. Surely the fact there was little quality in that team and he still managed to be our top point scorer (by 13 points, which is quite a substantial amount, in 1 less game than the second top scorer that season) is quite the achievement no? He was surrounded by all that (alleged) tripe and still managed to be the top point scorer, probably best player, go to guy when we needed something and he copped more flack than anyone on that team including Bruce Graham who was supposed to be the guy who was our top point scorer, best player & go to guy when we needed something who was that bad I wished he hadn't come back and tarnished his reputation to the extent he did, but most gave him a pass due to past glories. Efforts a funny thing when it comes to Lawrence as I think what role he's playing on the team has a lot to do with it, which is evident if you compare season 1 with season 2. The issue this year was that he was signed to be THE guy and perform in a combination of both roles, something he is ill equipped to do (that's giving him to much to think about). He has to be your number 2 option playing behind someone like Jordan Fox as a number 1 if you're signing him as a scorer (in season 1 he was number 2 but ended up being number 1 simply due to how poor Graham was) or he has to be a 4th line checking forward (as in season 2). I'm by no means starting a Chis Lawrence fan club but I think he's unfairly made a scapegoat because of how out in the open his issues are.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on May 15, 2017 17:22:06 GMT
A players excessive drinking is an issue,because it sends exactly the wrong message to all his teamates. And when you have a weak coach like Neilson who turns a blind eye,that makes it even worse,because they lose respect for him too.
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Post by sevcik on May 15, 2017 18:30:47 GMT
First off he is a professional sportsman therefore it does matter whether he's drunk whilst playing. He should never be so. If he (or any other player) was ever drunk whilst playing it is both disrespectful to the club and also to the fans who contributed to his wages. Alcohol aside when did he consistently produce consistently other than his second season? Even then it was only because he wanted to come back with his mates. The team we had that 1st season he was here was the poorest we had had in years To be top or near top scorer on that team wasn't a big achievement as there was little quality in it. Even that season he coasted many games. That's why many on here didn't want him back when he signed December of the following season. I watched all bar one home game last season and a fair few games away. I can't remember a single game where he put effort in for more than two periods. And normally it was one period if you were lucky Playing to full effort for only 5-10 mins in a game and scoring a goal is not producing in my book. The thing is Lawrence could have been one of the best imports we've had in recent years if he applied himself and made hockey his priority. He had all the talent to be at least a career AHLer. Instead he turned into Jade Galbraith mark 2. Though Galbraith put in far more effort If he's producing it doesn't really matter, I'm by no means encouraging it as a behaviour but if he does it and functions who cares? It's not ideal my any stretch of the imagination (from stories I've heard he has a definite problem that he needs to get sorted out because I question how functional a human being he's going to be once he's done with ice hockey), but it's not disrespectful. Surely the fact there was little quality in that team and he still managed to be our top point scorer (by 13 points, which is quite a substantial amount, in 1 less game than the second top scorer that season) is quite the achievement no? He was surrounded by all that (alleged) tripe and still managed to be the top point scorer, probably best player, go to guy when we needed something and he copped more flack than anyone on that team including Bruce Graham who was supposed to be the guy who was our top point scorer, best player & go to guy when we needed something who was that bad I wished he hadn't come back and tarnished his reputation to the extent he did, but most gave him a pass due to past glories. Efforts a funny thing when it comes to Lawrence as I think what role he's playing on the team has a lot to do with it, which is evident if you compare season 1 with season 2. The issue this year was that he was signed to be THE guy and perform in a combination of both roles, something he is ill equipped to do (that's giving him to much to think about). He has to be your number 2 option playing behind someone like Jordan Fox as a number 1 if you're signing him as a scorer (in season 1 he was number 2 but ended up being number 1 simply due to how poor Graham was) or he has to be a 4th line checking forward (as in season 2). I'm by no means starting a Chis Lawrence fan club but I think he's unfairly made a scapegoat because of how out in the open his issues are. Whether he (or anyone else) is producing under the influence. As I said before he is (allegedly) a professional athlete. As such he should be doing his utmost to be and remain fit. Drinking alcohol in copious amounts on a regular basis will have a serious effect on his fitness. Not only that it affects the rest of the team both on and off the ice. Most games last season his eyes were barely open as he left the ice every shift. As a fan I do care- so should you. If you think it's okay for a player to prioritize getting drunk over the job he was paid to do you are sadly deluded dear boy. It is VERY disrespectful to the club, to the fans to his teammates. In that sense it is not just his career his off ice antics are affecting. If he hadn't coasted so much that 1st season don't you think he would have been far more than 13 point's better than the 2nd top scorer that season? If he had he may have helped us to a few more victories. Coasting so much shows shows he's not a team player and is someone who thinks he is safe in his job no matter what he does. Best player.... Only because their was little or no competition. The reason Bruce Graham didn't get as much flack was because he was more interested in doing his job rather than drinking. Lawrence is no better than a 3rd liner at a push. He is symptomatic of all that was/is wrong with the club from management down to the players. Hopefully his exit and the type of signings we have made thus far are signs things are finally changing for the better.... But I believe it when I see it.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 18:06:50 GMT
A players excessive drinking is an issue,because it sends exactly the wrong message to all his teamates. And when you have a weak coach like Neilson who turns a blind eye,that makes it even worse,because they lose respect for him too. Now this is getting to the actual point, the issue with a player like Lawrence lies at the feet of the coach and management. As a fan I don't care what he does outside of the game because it's not my concern if he's doing his job/being effective to an acceptable standard (and at a bare minimum he's always been an acceptable player) on the ice but it should be Corey's, GM's or NB's concern - if I was in any of their positions I would have a very different viewpoint on all of this.
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Post by sevcik on May 16, 2017 18:41:46 GMT
A players excessive drinking is an issue,because it sends exactly the wrong message to all his teamates. And when you have a weak coach like Neilson who turns a blind eye,that makes it even worse,because they lose respect for him too. Now this is getting to the actual point, the issue with a player like Lawrence lies at the feet of the coach and management. As a fan I don't care what he does outside of the game because it's not my concern if he's doing his job/being effective to an acceptable standard (and at a bare minimum he's always been an acceptable player) on the ice but it should be Corey's, GM's or NB's concern - if I was in any of their positions I would have a very different viewpoint on all of this. Whilst I agree the issue does lay to a degree with Corey, GM & Neil Black (if the knew what was going on and if he didn't he damn well should have). I did say as such on previous threads this past season That though does not absolve any player of responsibility to keep himself fit with a suitable of ice lifestyle. Keeping fit was obviously not a priority for him and was seemingly one of the last things on his mind If you think Lawrence has always at minimum been playing to an effective standard you are very easily entertained/satisfied. The only time he even got halfway close to that was his 2nd season and that was because it suited him and he could see another 8 month paid drinking coming up ...a city and all its drinking haunts that he was already familiar with.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 18:45:59 GMT
If he's producing it doesn't really matter, I'm by no means encouraging it as a behaviour but if he does it and functions who cares? It's not ideal my any stretch of the imagination (from stories I've heard he has a definite problem that he needs to get sorted out because I question how functional a human being he's going to be once he's done with ice hockey), but it's not disrespectful. Surely the fact there was little quality in that team and he still managed to be our top point scorer (by 13 points, which is quite a substantial amount, in 1 less game than the second top scorer that season) is quite the achievement no? He was surrounded by all that (alleged) tripe and still managed to be the top point scorer, probably best player, go to guy when we needed something and he copped more flack than anyone on that team including Bruce Graham who was supposed to be the guy who was our top point scorer, best player & go to guy when we needed something who was that bad I wished he hadn't come back and tarnished his reputation to the extent he did, but most gave him a pass due to past glories. Efforts a funny thing when it comes to Lawrence as I think what role he's playing on the team has a lot to do with it, which is evident if you compare season 1 with season 2. The issue this year was that he was signed to be THE guy and perform in a combination of both roles, something he is ill equipped to do (that's giving him to much to think about). He has to be your number 2 option playing behind someone like Jordan Fox as a number 1 if you're signing him as a scorer (in season 1 he was number 2 but ended up being number 1 simply due to how poor Graham was) or he has to be a 4th line checking forward (as in season 2). I'm by no means starting a Chis Lawrence fan club but I think he's unfairly made a scapegoat because of how out in the open his issues are. Whether he (or anyone else) is producing under the influence. As I said before he is (allegedly) a professional athlete. As such he should be doing his utmost to be and remain fit. Drinking alcohol in copious amounts on a regular basis will have a serious effect on his fitness. Not only that it affects the rest of the team both on and off the ice. Most games last season his eyes were barely open as he left the ice every shift. As a fan I do care- so should you. If you think it's okay for a player to prioritize getting drunk over the job he was paid to do you are sadly deluded dear boy. It is VERY disrespectful to the club, to the fans to his teammates. In that sense it is not just his career his off ice antics are affecting. If he hadn't coasted so much that 1st season don't you think he would have been far more than 13 point's better than the 2nd top scorer that season? If he had he may have helped us to a few more victories. Coasting so much shows shows he's not a team player and is someone who thinks he is safe in his job no matter what he does. Best player.... Only because their was little or no competition. The reason Bruce Graham didn't get as much flack was because he was more interested in doing his job rather than drinking. Lawrence is no better than a 3rd liner at a push. He is symptomatic of all that was/is wrong with the club from management down to the players. Hopefully his exit and the type of signings we have made thus far are signs things are finally changing for the better.... But I believe it when I see it. Should be doing his utmost to stay fit yes, but AS A FAN it's not my concern - it's a management/coaching issue. I never said it was OK, what I said was 'I'm by no means encouraging it as a behaviour' & 'It's not ideal my any stretch of the imagination'. But AS A FAN as long as he is functioning to an acceptable standard (and Lawrence is clearly a functioning addict, as many others out in the real world are too) I don't care what he does outside of the game. So no, dear boy, I am not deluded. Disrespect is something as a fan that you consciously choose to feel, as long as he turns up and does what he's told on a gameday that's pretty much all he owes us as fans. To what is deemed an acceptable standard of 'doing what he is told' is for the coach to ascertain, so in reality the only people he's disrespecting are Neil Black (the guy cutting his cheque) and Corey/GM (the guys who hired him) and if they're OK with it and let him get away with what he does what can I do about it? The answer is nothing, so what's the point in me getting worked up over it? There is none. If that was Graham being interested in doing his job that would be very worrying, he was here for an easy pay check before retirement - and the fact he was outplayed by someone who cared more about drinking isn't a great look for him either. I've openly said elsewhere I wouldn't have Lawrence back for 17/18, the experiment was over and couldn't continue mainly because his issues where far to out in the open and this season seemed to be more widely spoken about than previously. We tried, it didn't work, time to move on and stop seemingly putting the blame on him for everything that went wrong. He is absolutely symptomatic of what is wrong with this club, but the problems here lie much higher than Chris Lawrence - he is just a product of his environment.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on May 16, 2017 19:31:49 GMT
The problem certainly does lie higher than Lawrence,he undoubtedly had a problem and it was widely known by fans and management,but nothing got done about it. Neilson should have either come down on him like a ton of bricks,warned him it's got to stop or fired him. That's not an easy thing to do as a coach though when you are setting exactly the same example.
It's no wonder there was little respect for Neilson,or that you have players like Williams saying what he said and Mcgrattan not best pleased either.
The coach has to set the example in lots of ways and be tough when needs be,yet Neilson just doesn't do it. Jeez,we even knew what Lawrence was like and STILL re signed him......TWICE !
How bloody stupid or desperate was that ! 🙄
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Post by sevcik on May 17, 2017 0:15:18 GMT
Whether he (or anyone else) is producing under the influence. As I said before he is (allegedly) a professional athlete. As such he should be doing his utmost to be and remain fit. Drinking alcohol in copious amounts on a regular basis will have a serious effect on his fitness. Not only that it affects the rest of the team both on and off the ice. Most games last season his eyes were barely open as he left the ice every shift. As a fan I do care- so should you. If you think it's okay for a player to prioritize getting drunk over the job he was paid to do you are sadly deluded dear boy. It is VERY disrespectful to the club, to the fans to his teammates. In that sense it is not just his career his off ice antics are affecting. If he hadn't coasted so much that 1st season don't you think he would have been far more than 13 point's better than the 2nd top scorer that season? If he had he may have helped us to a few more victories. Coasting so much shows shows he's not a team player and is someone who thinks he is safe in his job no matter what he does. Best player.... Only because their was little or no competition. The reason Bruce Graham didn't get as much flack was because he was more interested in doing his job rather than drinking. Lawrence is no better than a 3rd liner at a push. He is symptomatic of all that was/is wrong with the club from management down to the players. Hopefully his exit and the type of signings we have made thus far are signs things are finally changing for the better.... But I believe it when I see it. Should be doing his utmost to stay fit yes, but AS A FAN it's not my concern - it's a management/coaching issue. I never said it was OK, what I said was 'I'm by no means encouraging it as a behaviour' & 'It's not ideal my any stretch of the imagination'. But AS A FAN as long as he is functioning to an acceptable standard (and Lawrence is clearly a functioning addict, as many others out in the real world are too) I don't care what he does outside of the game. So no, dear boy, I am not deluded. Disrespect is something as a fan that you consciously choose to feel, as long as he turns up and does what he's told on a gameday that's pretty much all he owes us as fans. To what is deemed an acceptable standard of 'doing what he is told' is for the coach to ascertain, so in reality the only people he's disrespecting are Neil Black (the guy cutting his cheque) and Corey/GM (the guys who hired him) and if they're OK with it and let him get away with what he does what can I do about it? The answer is nothing, so what's the point in me getting worked up over it? There is none. If that was Graham being interested in doing his job that would be very worrying, he was here for an easy pay check before retirement - and the fact he was outplayed by someone who cared more about drinking isn't a great look for him either. I've openly said elsewhere I wouldn't have Lawrence back for 17/18, the experiment was over and couldn't continue mainly because his issues where far to out in the open and this season seemed to be more widely spoken about than previously. We tried, it didn't work, time to move on and stop seemingly putting the blame on him for everything that went wrong. He is absolutely symptomatic of what is wrong with this club, but the problems here lie much higher than Chris Lawrence - he is just a product of his environment. As a FAN it should also be your concern. If a player is playing drunk then he will not be able to perform at optimum level. As I said in my previous post it is both the club's and the individual players responsibility to ensure he is so. You don't care what he does off ice Even on a game day? I take it by default then if a player got arrested for breaking the law that by your words that's okay then? It is amazing that people who are deluded never think they are. I'll leave you to think about that one. Anyway I digress.... There's doing what you are told but if you're not 100% sober a player is not going to be able to do what is asked of him to the best of his ability which is logical really don't you think? We all as fans contribute to a players wages to play hockey the best he can. Not to find a drinking holiday. As such it is the club (who should have clamped down) and the fans that a player doing this is disrespecting.. I agree Bruce didn't produce in his 2nd spell bit again you're missing the point. Even though he failed to live up to expectations he actually put effort in most games and just as importantly kept himself in shape off ice. As far as not having Lawrence back that is where we both agree. I wouldn't have had him back for a 2nd season nevermind a third but Neilson thinks (or thought) he could do no wrong. Again who has put all the blame on Lawrence?. Have you not seen all the posts on here in the past 12 months? Plenty of pot shots have been taken quite deservedly so at the management too. Thank you for agreeing with my point that Lawrence was/is symptomatic of all that is/was wrong with the club from management down to the players Lawrence had issues long before he hot these shores and the environment of which we both speak certainly allowed those issues to grow and flourish. That should never have been allowed to happen.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 11:04:53 GMT
Should be doing his utmost to stay fit yes, but AS A FAN it's not my concern - it's a management/coaching issue. I never said it was OK, what I said was 'I'm by no means encouraging it as a behaviour' & 'It's not ideal my any stretch of the imagination'. But AS A FAN as long as he is functioning to an acceptable standard (and Lawrence is clearly a functioning addict, as many others out in the real world are too) I don't care what he does outside of the game. So no, dear boy, I am not deluded. Disrespect is something as a fan that you consciously choose to feel, as long as he turns up and does what he's told on a gameday that's pretty much all he owes us as fans. To what is deemed an acceptable standard of 'doing what he is told' is for the coach to ascertain, so in reality the only people he's disrespecting are Neil Black (the guy cutting his cheque) and Corey/GM (the guys who hired him) and if they're OK with it and let him get away with what he does what can I do about it? The answer is nothing, so what's the point in me getting worked up over it? There is none. If that was Graham being interested in doing his job that would be very worrying, he was here for an easy pay check before retirement - and the fact he was outplayed by someone who cared more about drinking isn't a great look for him either. I've openly said elsewhere I wouldn't have Lawrence back for 17/18, the experiment was over and couldn't continue mainly because his issues where far to out in the open and this season seemed to be more widely spoken about than previously. We tried, it didn't work, time to move on and stop seemingly putting the blame on him for everything that went wrong. He is absolutely symptomatic of what is wrong with this club, but the problems here lie much higher than Chris Lawrence - he is just a product of his environment. As a FAN it should also be your concern. If a player is playing drunk then he will not be able to perform at optimum level. As I said in my previous post it is both the club's and the individual players responsibility to ensure he is so. You don't care what he does off ice Even on a game day? I take it by default then if a player got arrested for breaking the law that by your words that's okay then? It is amazing that people who are deluded never think they are. I'll leave you to think about that one. Anyway I digress.... There's doing what you are told but if you're not 100% sober a player is not going to be able to do what is asked of him to the best of his ability which is logical really don't you think? We all as fans contribute to a players wages to play hockey the best he can. Not to find a drinking holiday. As such it is the club (who should have clamped down) and the fans that a player doing this is disrespecting.. I agree Bruce didn't produce in his 2nd spell bit again you're missing the point. Even though he failed to live up to expectations he actually put effort in most games and just as importantly kept himself in shape off ice. As far as not having Lawrence back that is where we both agree. I wouldn't have had him back for a 2nd season nevermind a third but Neilson thinks (or thought) he could do no wrong. Again who has put all the blame on Lawrence?. Have you not seen all the posts on here in the past 12 months? Plenty of pot shots have been taken quite deservedly so at the management too. Thank you for agreeing with my point that Lawrence was/is symptomatic of all that is/was wrong with the club from management down to the players Lawrence had issues long before he hot these shores and the environment of which we both speak certainly allowed those issues to grow and flourish. That should never have been allowed to happen. It can aggravate/annoy me that he's not performing to the best of the abilities he's been gifted with, but that's all it can do. I'm not going to concern myself with it though as it's a situation I have absolutely no control over so I'm not going to get worked up over it, there's no point - if I was in any position of power within the club my viewpoint would be totally different as I would be able to somewhat control the situation and potentially do something about it. Same logic applies with the getting arrested analogy, it's not OK but what can I do about it? People at the club are paid to make decisions and deal with incidents like that not me so I'm not going to concern myself with it. 3rd paragraph is a needless attempt at point scoring, I'm disappointed. Logical yes, but he still did his job despite his flaws - to what extent he did his job is another matter entirely. Again as a fan it's not my issue as there's nothing I can do about it, it's the issue of the people who employed him. If anything it is them (his employers) that are disrespecting the fans by allowing and seemingly encouraging his behaviour by doing nothing about it, now Lawrence has to take some responsibility and be willing to change but the club owed it to him (as they believed he had the abilities to be 'the guy' here in Nottingham) and the fans to get him the help he so obviously needed (his behaviour in itself was/is a cry for help) to get the best out of him and be the player we all wanted him to be. I'd rather have someone who was flawed and produced (Lawrence) rather than someone who tried really hard and was rubbish (Graham), but that's just me and that's another conversation for another time.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on May 17, 2017 11:41:35 GMT
What you're forgetting NYR is "fan power" putting pressure on the coach and management. People may think it doesn't mean much,but it does. Do you really think the changes we are seeing so far this off season are purely Mr Blacks thinking,because I don't.
Take Lawrence or Carter for example,the fans in general didn't like them last year and they're gone But if the pair of them had been real crowd favourites it's highly likely we would have resigned them,despite the way they played.
So as a fan,if you sit back and accept mediocrity or a player not fulfilling his potential,that's what you're going to get stuck with again. But if you make your displeasure known and enough people do the same,then things will eventually change.
That's the scenario I work on anyway People can think I'm a miserable git and always moaning yes,but at the end of the day all I'm ever trying to do is put pressure on in the hope of change.
So far this off season things seem to be changing for the good....we shall see !
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