Warren
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,467
|
Post by Warren on Jul 14, 2016 12:00:12 GMT
Where did he put 'a whole team of non-resume players could win the EIHL'? He didn't. But he infers that you don't need any proven resume players in your team. That's fine you don't have to have them,but you won't win the EIHL without several of them. Nobody has ever done it with a bunch of untried unknowns and they won't ! I wouldn't say SHL & Liiga players have got an unproven resume. We do however play and play in a North American style league, so the N/A players are not spending times "learning the officals" I don't think you should get hung up on a players resume alone though. odds are you will get better performance out of a 1st line ECHL guy than a 4th line NHL player. Also Draft position means nothing apart from how well you did the year leading up to the Draft. Look at Datsyuk. 171st overall.
|
|
|
Post by shmyrohdear on Jul 14, 2016 18:05:35 GMT
I can see why people are frustrated and are questioning the pedigree of the team. However look at the GS winning lineup. We had a lot of guys who hadn't touched NHL and very little to no AHL experience and they were effective. No pedigree doesn't mean they won't preform well, you're going off of stat sheets and league history rather than looking at it as they come highly sought after and come with credible references.
The center position does worry me, i said last season Lacho should be moved into a center role based on his defensive skills and first pass ability. However it was said Brown can play center. Lawrence, Mac, Brown and Moran. Just because Lawrence is good friends with Brown doesn't mean they have to be paired together. They could be used on the PP/PK units and could just be great locker room personalities. Corey loves to pull lines out of a hat anyway so i won't be holding my breath.
NEP article saying Quick and Kolnik along with Schmidt could all return yet. I do think we need to get a definitive answer from Kolnik within the next week to then begin looking for a suitable fit elsewhere as waiting for a palyer who is 50/50 isn't a good sign either way. Carter to me looks like our next top goal scorer as has been said he's a late bloomer and has found his game.
As for the defense we need strong physical, two way players. Protect Wiikman and be a force at the back end. As usual only time will tell but for once I'm with Iginla, we need experience now for final slots we have our workers we need our steady heads to challenge for everything put infront of us.
|
|
Ghost
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,698
|
Post by Ghost on Jul 14, 2016 20:58:43 GMT
I can see why people are frustrated and are questioning the pedigree of the team. However look at the GS winning lineup. We had a lot of guys who hadn't touched NHL and very little to no AHL experience and they were effective. No pedigree doesn't mean they won't preform well, you're going off of stat sheets and league history rather than looking at it as they come highly sought after and come with credible references. The center position does worry me, i said last season Lacho should be moved into a center role based on his defensive skills and first pass ability. However it was said Brown can play center. Lawrence, Mac, Brown and Moran. Just because Lawrence is good friends with Brown doesn't mean they have to be paired together. They could be used on the PP/PK units and could just be great locker room personalities. Corey loves to pull lines out of a hat anyway so i won't be holding my breath. NEP article saying Quick and Kolnik along with Schmidt could all return yet. I do think we need to get a definitive answer from Kolnik within the next week to then begin looking for a suitable fit elsewhere as waiting for a palyer who is 50/50 isn't a good sign either way. Carter to me looks like our next top goal scorer as has been said he's a late bloomer and has found his game. As for the defense we need strong physical, two way players. Protect Wiikman and be a force at the back end. As usual only time will tell but for once I'm with Iginla, we need experience now for final slots we have our workers we need our steady heads to challenge for everything put infront of us. Centres need to win face offs.. Lacho doesn't.
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Jul 14, 2016 21:25:17 GMT
I can see why people are frustrated and are questioning the pedigree of the team. However look at the GS winning lineup. We had a lot of guys who hadn't touched NHL and very little to no AHL experience and they were effective. No pedigree doesn't mean they won't preform well, you're going off of stat sheets and league history rather than looking at it as they come highly sought after and come with credible references. The center position does worry me, i said last season Lacho should be moved into a center role based on his defensive skills and first pass ability. However it was said Brown can play center. Lawrence, Mac, Brown and Moran. Just because Lawrence is good friends with Brown doesn't mean they have to be paired together. They could be used on the PP/PK units and could just be great locker room personalities. Corey loves to pull lines out of a hat anyway so i won't be holding my breath. NEP article saying Quick and Kolnik along with Schmidt could all return yet. I do think we need to get a definitive answer from Kolnik within the next week to then begin looking for a suitable fit elsewhere as waiting for a palyer who is 50/50 isn't a good sign either way. Carter to me looks like our next top goal scorer as has been said he's a late bloomer and has found his game. As for the defense we need strong physical, two way players. Protect Wiikman and be a force at the back end. As usual only time will tell but for once I'm with Iginla, we need experience now for final slots we have our workers we need our steady heads to challenge for everything put infront of us. the problem if you play Brown as centre rather than as a RW is that it leaves us pretty weak on the right hand side, we'll be left with Schultz who is great but then we've got Betteridge and Janssen who are our only other natural RW, this would probably lead to Clarke playing RW when he's LH, which isn't ideal
|
|
|
Post by shmyrohdear on Jul 14, 2016 21:27:26 GMT
I can see why people are frustrated and are questioning the pedigree of the team. However look at the GS winning lineup. We had a lot of guys who hadn't touched NHL and very little to no AHL experience and they were effective. No pedigree doesn't mean they won't preform well, you're going off of stat sheets and league history rather than looking at it as they come highly sought after and come with credible references. The center position does worry me, i said last season Lacho should be moved into a center role based on his defensive skills and first pass ability. However it was said Brown can play center. Lawrence, Mac, Brown and Moran. Just because Lawrence is good friends with Brown doesn't mean they have to be paired together. They could be used on the PP/PK units and could just be great locker room personalities. Corey loves to pull lines out of a hat anyway so i won't be holding my breath. NEP article saying Quick and Kolnik along with Schmidt could all return yet. I do think we need to get a definitive answer from Kolnik within the next week to then begin looking for a suitable fit elsewhere as waiting for a palyer who is 50/50 isn't a good sign either way. Carter to me looks like our next top goal scorer as has been said he's a late bloomer and has found his game. As for the defense we need strong physical, two way players. Protect Wiikman and be a force at the back end. As usual only time will tell but for once I'm with Iginla, we need experience now for final slots we have our workers we need our steady heads to challenge for everything put infront of us. Centres need to win face offs.. Lacho doesn't. And how do you know? How many has he taken? Players get put into different roles a lot, for all you know he could be a 50% guy on the draw. You never know who can bring what or may have been training an area of their game. Like i said, he has good defensive skills and has been one of the better defensively responsible forwards for a few years now, you cannot say for certain he "doesn't" when you have nothing to go off of.
|
|
|
Post by shmyrohdear on Jul 14, 2016 21:29:36 GMT
I can see why people are frustrated and are questioning the pedigree of the team. However look at the GS winning lineup. We had a lot of guys who hadn't touched NHL and very little to no AHL experience and they were effective. No pedigree doesn't mean they won't preform well, you're going off of stat sheets and league history rather than looking at it as they come highly sought after and come with credible references. The center position does worry me, i said last season Lacho should be moved into a center role based on his defensive skills and first pass ability. However it was said Brown can play center. Lawrence, Mac, Brown and Moran. Just because Lawrence is good friends with Brown doesn't mean they have to be paired together. They could be used on the PP/PK units and could just be great locker room personalities. Corey loves to pull lines out of a hat anyway so i won't be holding my breath. NEP article saying Quick and Kolnik along with Schmidt could all return yet. I do think we need to get a definitive answer from Kolnik within the next week to then begin looking for a suitable fit elsewhere as waiting for a palyer who is 50/50 isn't a good sign either way. Carter to me looks like our next top goal scorer as has been said he's a late bloomer and has found his game. As for the defense we need strong physical, two way players. Protect Wiikman and be a force at the back end. As usual only time will tell but for once I'm with Iginla, we need experience now for final slots we have our workers we need our steady heads to challenge for everything put infront of us. the problem if you play Brown as centre rather than as a RW is that it leaves us pretty weak on the right hand side, we'll be left with Schultz who is great but then we've got Betteridge and Janssen who are our only other natural RW, this would probably lead to Clarke playing RW when he's LH, which isn't ideal A lot of snipers play on their off wing and produce good numbers , i don't see why he couldn't settle into that role he's been around long enough to do so.
|
|
Ghost
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,698
|
Post by Ghost on Jul 14, 2016 21:30:27 GMT
Centres need to win face offs.. Lacho doesn't. And how do you know? How many has he taken? Players get put into different roles a lot, for all you know he could be a 50% guy on the draw. You never know who can bring what or may have been training an area of their game. Like i said, he has good defensive skills and has been one of the better defensively responsible forwards for a few years now, you cannot say for certain he "doesn't" when you have nothing to go off of. I know because he has played centre several times and always been bad in that department. 45% win rate is bare minimum really and I'd guess he's more like 25% from what I've seen.
|
|
|
Post by shmyrohdear on Jul 14, 2016 21:37:01 GMT
And how do you know? How many has he taken? Players get put into different roles a lot, for all you know he could be a 50% guy on the draw. You never know who can bring what or may have been training an area of their game. Like i said, he has good defensive skills and has been one of the better defensively responsible forwards for a few years now, you cannot say for certain he "doesn't" when you have nothing to go off of. I know because he has played centre several times and always been bad in that department. 45% win rate is bare minimum really and I'd guess he's more like 25% from what I've seen. He's been placed at center for a few shifts, he's not even had a full game combined. That's completely different than putting a player into that position for camps and practice sessions. Again, not enoughto base judgement off of.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Jul 14, 2016 22:01:45 GMT
I know because he has played centre several times and always been bad in that department. 45% win rate is bare minimum really and I'd guess he's more like 25% from what I've seen. He's been placed at center for a few shifts, he's not even had a full game combined. That's completely different than putting a player into that position for camps and practice sessions. Again, not enoughto base judgement off of. One thing continually baffles me. If we need a centre,why doesn't Corey just bloody well sign one......instead of signing a winger and trying to convert him to a centre ! It's like he always has to do things his way by changing players usual roles,to somehow try and prove he's some sort of brilliant and unconventional coaching genius.
|
|
|
Post by PantherB on Jul 14, 2016 22:03:05 GMT
Where did he put 'a whole team of non-resume players could win the EIHL'? He didn't. But he infers that you don't need any proven resume players in your team. That's fine you don't have to have them,but you won't win the EIHL without several of them. Nobody has ever done it with a bunch of untried unknowns and they won't ! The players i pointed out would tear the EIHL a new hole. I don't infer anything, i simply point out that there are many high quality players who haven't stepped foot outside of Europe, and people need to understand that and stop losing their mind over players with a handful of NHL/AHL games. Not that they won't live up to expectations but because it basically gives people the opinion that Europeans aren't close to the quality of the North Americans, and that isn't true. Just because they're undrafted with no North American experience also doesn't mean they aren't proven. If players have the SHL, Allsvenskan, Liiga, Mestis, DEL, DEL2, NLA, NLB, Kazakhstan, Italy (Alpine League), Denmark, EBEL, Ligue Magnus, Extraliga (Slovak & Czech), VHL.. Etc.. then i would be quite happy. Preferably the higher of the leagues but any of those leagues are of equal or better quality to the EIHL and if players can perform with them, then i'd happily give them a shot.
|
|
Ghost
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,698
|
Post by Ghost on Jul 15, 2016 6:32:33 GMT
I know because he has played centre several times and always been bad in that department. 45% win rate is bare minimum really and I'd guess he's more like 25% from what I've seen. He's been placed at center for a few shifts, he's not even had a full game combined. That's completely different than putting a player into that position for camps and practice sessions. Again, not enoughto base judgement off of. I disagree, but there you go if everyone's opinions were the same wouldn't life be boring!
|
|
Doom
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,591
|
Post by Doom on Jul 15, 2016 18:24:44 GMT
So what your saying PantherB. Is that a whole team of "non resume" players could win the EIHL..........You know,the sort of team that Fife,Dundee or Manchester generally sign. Not a cat in hells chance. Let me know if it ever happens.....it won't !
I suppose it depends on your definition of a good resume player.
I certainly think a team could win the league with players who have only played ECHL level or equivalent, but they'd have to be good quality ECHL players (ie. forwards who have scored roughly a point a game).
I'd generally take a forward straight out of the ECHL who managed a point a game last season over a guy who has played 300 AHL games 5 years ago and is now dropping down the leagues and no longer putting up decent numbers. Matt Keith would be an example of the latter. When he signed for Braehead I remember some people suggesting he'd rip up the league, but I couldn't see it because his numbers were falling away. Don't get me wrong, he's still a decent player, but I'd take a Roy or another point a game ECHL forward over him.
Regards
Doom
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Jul 15, 2016 19:51:12 GMT
So what your saying PantherB. Is that a whole team of "non resume" players could win the EIHL..........You know,the sort of team that Fife,Dundee or Manchester generally sign. Not a cat in hells chance. Let me know if it ever happens.....it won't !
I suppose it depends on your definition of a good resume player.
I certainly think a team could win the league with players who have only played ECHL level or equivalent, but they'd have to be good quality ECHL players (ie. forwards who have scored roughly a point a game).
I'd generally take a forward straight out of the ECHL who managed a point a game last season over a guy who has played 300 AHL games 5 years ago and is now dropping down the leagues and no longer putting up decent numbers. Matt Keith would be an example of the latter. When he signed for Braehead I remember some people suggesting he'd rip up the league, but I couldn't see it because his numbers were falling away. Don't get me wrong, he's still a decent player, but I'd take a Roy or another point a game ECHL forward over him.
Regards
Doom
You need a mixture Doom. Certainly you don't want a team full of non resumes,but neither do you want a team of big resume 35 year olds all on the down slide. Certain players you just know are going to be effective. When you signed Roy I said before the season even started that him along with Hotham and Omarra would be standouts and all three were indeed that year. Same when you signed Desbiens last year,I said he will have an impact and he did. All I'm saying,is that without some quality,be that at 28 year old or a 36 year old you wont win. Look at Panthers last year,struggling then signed a couple of quality Dmen and you had a different team. Take Fretter and Roy out of Steelers and replace them with average ECHL/CHL players and it would leave a huge hole. This year at Panthers,we have the grinders,the workhorses and good second and third string quality,but what we don't have yet are the two or three big difference makers. Whether we get them remains to be seen,but we need them !
|
|
|
Post by pantherdman on Jul 15, 2016 21:56:51 GMT
Underspent. Not replaced top Brit Square pegs, round holes. No injury cover & extra games. It's ground hog day.
|
|
|
Post by fishman on Jul 21, 2016 17:06:19 GMT
I think Panthers will go to France shorthanded. just to save a bit more cash!!!!!!!
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2016 17:50:09 GMT
I think Panthers will go to France shorthanded. just to save a bit more cash!!!!!!! There is no "think" about it Fishman......we "will" go to France shorthanded and I bet start the season short too ! It's only two and a half weeks until training camp supposedly starts and we still have 3 imports to sign,never mind get the paperwork in place and actually get them here. Talk about hampering yourselves.....Panthers are experts at it !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 18:07:28 GMT
Unless of course the last 3 were all EU passport holders hence no paperwork required ! One of those could be Kolnik
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2016 18:26:00 GMT
Unless of course the last 3 were all EU passport holders hence no paperwork required ! One of those could be Kolnik You know what players are like though Pidge. They don't need much persuading to stay home until the very last possible minute ya know. After all,why would they want to take part in extra training,friendlies and Alladin cup games,when you can just pretend you've lost some paperwork or have some issues to sort out back home first before you can fly over here......it happens believe me ! Jade Galbraith was an absolute wizard at doing that. Leaving it late to sign players has its benefits we can see that,but it's a dangerous game to play unless you want to start the season short.
|
|
|
Post by PantherB on Jul 21, 2016 19:24:48 GMT
Unless of course the last 3 were all EU passport holders hence no paperwork required ! One of those could be Kolnik You know what players are like though Pidge. They don't need much persuading to stay home until the very last possible minute ya know. After all,why would they want to take part in extra training,friendlies and Alladin cup games,when you can just pretend you've lost some paperwork or have some issues to sort out back home first before you can fly over here......it happens believe me ! Jade Galbraith was an absolute wizard at doing that. Leaving it late to sign players has its benefits we can see that,but it's a dangerous game to play unless you want to start the season short. Because Jade Galbraith is a 'good' example isn't he.. He's got enough on his record to be denied a visa to play here. You can't really blame players for things taking longer, you don't know their circumstances. For all we know, our imports may have aging family memebers, sick family members and everything inbetween which undoubtedly makes sorting stuff out a lot more difficult. Kolnik is taking his time because he went home twice last season, for family reasons.. He doesn't want to be 'that' player who throws the towel in at the midway point of the season, he's trying to sort the issues out and make sure everything would be in place for whilst he's away. Look at the signings other teams have made this past week, very few, if any, have actually been below par.. But it's late in the offseason! We have a lot of options open to us, we can sign 3 more EU players, or 3 more North American players. Say Corey signed the entire roster by last week (Middle of July) done and dusted, people would be thinking that he's jumped the gun and signed the first names that have come to him, and use that ridiculous ideology against Corey when we inevitably lose a game. Playing the patience game worked in signing Sertich, it worked last season when we signed Janssen and Moran. The players that leave it later, in my opinion will be the more loyal ones. They've had an entire summer, looking through offers and thinking about each potential destination, yet they choose us, they wouldn't choose us for no reason and so i'm happy to wait another 2 weeks before getting seriously worried about starting the season short benched. Schmidt is still in Nottingham, wouldn't be too difficult to tempt him to sign a rolling contract if not a full time deal, Kolnik is still on the cards and Quick is still very much on the cards. If all 3 agreed to deals, everything would fall into place very quickly. Try to be positive for once, we've got enough players to get through pre-season as it is and we'll no doubt give Glossop or some other kids a chance.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2016 20:37:32 GMT
You know what players are like though Pidge. They don't need much persuading to stay home until the very last possible minute ya know. After all,why would they want to take part in extra training,friendlies and Alladin cup games,when you can just pretend you've lost some paperwork or have some issues to sort out back home first before you can fly over here......it happens believe me ! Jade Galbraith was an absolute wizard at doing that. Leaving it late to sign players has its benefits we can see that,but it's a dangerous game to play unless you want to start the season short. Because Jade Galbraith is a 'good' example isn't he.. He's got enough on his record to be denied a visa to play here. You can't really blame players for things taking longer, you don't know their circumstances. For all we know, our imports may have aging family memebers, sick family members and everything inbetween which undoubtedly makes sorting stuff out a lot more difficult. Kolnik is taking his time because he went home twice last season, for family reasons.. He doesn't want to be 'that' player who throws the towel in at the midway point of the season, he's trying to sort the issues out and make sure everything would be in place for whilst he's away. Look at the signings other teams have made this past week, very few, if any, have actually been below par.. But it's late in the offseason! We have a lot of options open to us, we can sign 3 more EU players, or 3 more North American players. Say Corey signed the entire roster by last week (Middle of July) done and dusted, people would be thinking that he's jumped the gun and signed the first names that have come to him, and use that ridiculous ideology against Corey when we inevitably lose a game. Playing the patience game worked in signing Sertich, it worked last season when we signed Janssen and Moran. The players that leave it later, in my opinion will be the more loyal ones. They've had an entire summer, looking through offers and thinking about each potential destination, yet they choose us, they wouldn't choose us for no reason and so i'm happy to wait another 2 weeks before getting seriously worried about starting the season short benched. Schmidt is still in Nottingham, wouldn't be too difficult to tempt him to sign a rolling contract if not a full time deal, Kolnik is still on the cards and Quick is still very much on the cards. If all 3 agreed to deals, everything would fall into place very quickly. Try to be positive for once, we've got enough players to get through pre-season as it is and we'll no doubt give Glossop or some other kids a chance. I don't particularly disagree with you,if it falls into place. Other than definitely Jeff Ulmer and possibly Sean Bentavoglio I can't see any players signed late that I would have said were worth waiting for though that I would want to to add to Panthers roster. There have been some decent quality signings in the last couple of weeks yes,but not the real top end guys that we should be looking for.
|
|
|
Post by fishman on Jul 22, 2016 9:22:51 GMT
I do hope Chris Lawrence goes back on goal scoring duty, with his buddies Cater and Brown on a line he could top his 25 goals in 14/15 season
|
|
|
Post by dill1015 on Jul 24, 2016 12:13:09 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sevcik on Jul 24, 2016 13:33:34 GMT
I do hope Chris Lawrence goes back on goal scoring duty, with his buddies Cater and Brown on a line he could top his 25 goals in 14/15 season You'll be lucky.... history shows he only puts maximum effort/plays anywhere near his full ability when theres a tangiable chance of a trophy.... the playoffs and also the challenge cup quarter final onwards are the perfect example. Why we are basing our forward lines pretty much around a player who has had motivational issues throughout his career, at least going back to his AHL days is beyond me. Observing the previous comments on here re Carter & Brown it seems some on here are far from convinced either can put the points up we need in this team. Personally I have an open mind but I can see why some are concerned especially when you look at rosters of other teams. Having said that championships arent won on paper....
|
|
|
Post by PantherB on Jul 24, 2016 14:05:51 GMT
I do hope Chris Lawrence goes back on goal scoring duty, with his buddies Cater and Brown on a line he could top his 25 goals in 14/15 season You'll be lucky.... history shows he only puts maximum effort/plays anywhere near his full ability when theres a tangiable chance of a trophy.... the playoffs and also the challenge cup quarter final onwards are the perfect example. Why we are basing our forward lines pretty much around a player who has had motivational issues throughout his career, at least going back to his AHL days is beyond me. Observing the previous comments on here re Carter & Brown it seems some on here are far from convinced either can put the points up we need in this team. Personally I have an open mind but I can see why some are concerned especially when you look at rosters of other teams. Having said that championships arent won on paper.... Can't really be too harsh on him, he was our top point scorer 2014-15 and played a great role in the 20 or so games last season! He likes Corey and gets on with everyone, he was much fitter in his second stint with us so i'd assume Corey told him he needed to put that little bit more effort in if he wanted to stay with us, and he did, he was very good! He's one of those players, if he's in a role that suits him he'll do very well but if it's left to him to do our scoring and winning games then he will lose motivation, as we often saw in 2014-15, it was practically just Chris getting us anywhere. As for Brown and Carter, i think they'll do well, i hope they play on the line with Lawrence as that'll be a big boost to them all playing with friends they grew up with and know well. Brown i'd expect to be the grittier player of the 3 should provide some takeaways and open space for Carter and Lawrence, Carter is quick and skilful so if Lawrence is in a good position then he can unleash his lazer of a shot! I can see it now.. until someone gets injured, inevitably.
|
|
|
Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jul 24, 2016 16:12:51 GMT
I do hope Chris Lawrence goes back on goal scoring duty, with his buddies Cater and Brown on a line he could top his 25 goals in 14/15 season You'll be lucky.... history shows he only puts maximum effort/plays anywhere near his full ability when theres a tangiable chance of a trophy.... the playoffs and also the challenge cup quarter final onwards are the perfect example. Why we are basing our forward lines pretty much around a player who has had motivational issues throughout his career, at least going back to his AHL days is beyond me. Observing the previous comments on here re Carter & Brown it seems some on here are far from convinced either can put the points up we need in this team. Personally I have an open mind but I can see why some are concerned especially when you look at rosters of other teams. Having said that championships arent won on paper.... I'm behind this view too. Hopefully Carter & Brown can raise the frequency of Lawrence's effort. To put it simply, we've seen Lawrence rip teams apart (I believe the 2016 playoff final was won by him being the difference maker) and if he applied a similar effort in every game, Chris could easily edge up to 100pts a season. The problem is that he has earnt a lazy tag for a reason. To build a team around him is a risk... Especially for those late Tuesday nights in Cardiff or a 3rd game in 3 nights up in Scotland. It could well work brilliantly... But personally I'd like to have focused more on Brad Moran or Cam Janssen's mates.
|
|