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Post by reece182 on Apr 5, 2016 10:26:58 GMT
With black saying he is hopeful and heavily involved with bringing a London team into the league, if he was to own the club aswell would we see a lack of investment here at the panthers as London would be the place to make the money plus costs of running them would be greater or would we still see us survive as a top team with the investment we get now?
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Post by cooperphil156 on Apr 5, 2016 11:10:12 GMT
I understand that the plan was for the team to be housed at Milton Keynes and to train there, massively reducing costs. They would travel to London virtually only to play matches. Panthers are very profitable and therefore investment from Aladdin would be very little different from the start up costs of Braehead. Brae head initially ran at a loss, but seem to be well in profit with the increase in crowds.
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Post by dusseldorf on Apr 5, 2016 17:49:08 GMT
Really hope we get another team(s) to join the league.
But my issue would be how Mr Black is allowed to run three teams and how are they funded?
- Are they self sufficient or supported by profits from the other team?
- do they all have a budget based on turnover or are there leagues rules capping spending?_
- If Braehead ran at a loss to start with how did the owner fund this?
- If the owner is involved with signings surely there is a conflict of interest somewhere in the process, especially if two cubs want to sign the same player.
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Post by pingchowchi on Apr 5, 2016 19:01:54 GMT
It's his money he can spend it how he likes, I personally would rather him spend it on something hockey related than a new shiny Italian car.
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Post by pantherdman on Apr 5, 2016 19:51:56 GMT
No thanks.
Nottingham will be the place to make the money, London will be the place he spends it.
We will get the dirty end of the stick again and steelers will keep out spending us and winning more league titles.
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Post by reece182 on Apr 5, 2016 20:11:02 GMT
As long as we're competing at the top and it's not being focused on London then I'm happy
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Apr 5, 2016 20:26:48 GMT
As long as we're competing at the top and it's not being focused on London then I'm happy So you would be happy if Panthers finished 5th and London won it in their first season then ! |
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Post by cooperphil156 on Apr 5, 2016 21:04:32 GMT
"If Braehead ran at a loss to start with how did the owner fund this?"
This was funded by Aladdin - NB has other incomes -including masters 5 a side football. They will now be in profit. I wouldn't be surprised if Brehead is sold on.
- "If the owner is involved with signings surely there is a conflict of interest somewhere in the process, especially if two cubs want to sign the same player."
Bra head director of operations is Gareth Chalmers - he will be making day to day decisions - Jamie Black was the instigator for Braehead - and will be involved in which direction the club goes and financial limits. Remember Salters went from Panthers to Braehead, who presumably met the financial ask, whereas Panthers didn't. Its up to how each club wants to spend their budget.
" do they all have a budget based on turnover or are there leagues rules capping spending?" There isn't a cap, but NB has worked towards a tight budget. You can bet that initially the cash wont be splashed willy nilly.
"But my issue would be how Mr Black is allowed to run three teams and how are they funded?" Involvement in more than one club has happened before with Paul Regan.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 5, 2016 21:26:03 GMT
The start up costs of London will no doubt be be funded at least in part by profits made at Panthers.
First year,make no mistake he will spend decent money on them.
The problem i have with it is this.
We as Panthers fans turn up week in week out,we have the biggest fan base by miles and deserve a bloody good team,with money spent being pro rate to what we can afford.
In simple terms,we should without question spend considerably more than Braehead or London.
The reality is,Mr Black won't do that though,he wants his teams to be competitive.
That's fine if you are a Braehead or London fan living off the Panthers fans money,but if you are a Panthers fan.....it's pretty crap !
That's the problem with dual or triple team ownership.......why the hell should we as Panthers fans subsidise our bloody rivals !!!!!
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Post by dusseldorf on Apr 5, 2016 21:52:17 GMT
My point exactly.
If the owner is running each franchise to make a profit they all need to be competitive in order to build the supporter base.
Realistically giving them all a chance of success means a similar budget to spend.
Braehead should have won the league until they "bottled it"
Makes Coreys efforts even better in my mind especially when Sheffield have probably got a much higher budget !!
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by yeti on Apr 5, 2016 21:55:37 GMT
I would say that now Braehead are also in profit Mr Black will be taking money from both Panthers and Braehead and spending it on the London team. So now both Panthers and Braehead fans are being short changed.
Am I the only one who thinks it was a bit of a coincidence that once it appeared Braehead were not going to win the league but Panthers were in the challenge Cup semi final then suddenly Panthers got the go ahead to sign two more Dmen just as deadline day approached. Before that Braehead were getting their injured players replaced quickly and Panthers weren't.
Looks to me like Mr Black already juggles where he thinks it's best to spend money strengthening his teams.
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Pies
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Reluctant Chief of ITK
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Post by Pies on Apr 5, 2016 21:59:29 GMT
I love all the speculation about NB taking money from here to fund this and that.
First of all, no one has any idea. Since Braehead came along, it's not like our success has dried up has it?
Secondly, NB makes his real money on the other business enterprises. It's not like he made his wealthwith panthers.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 5, 2016 23:10:17 GMT
I love all the speculation about NB taking money from here to fund this and that. First of all, no one has any idea. Since Braehead came along, it's not like our success has dried up has it? Secondly, NB makes his real money on the other business enterprises. It's not like he made his wealthwith panthers. Errr Pot kettle from you there i think Pies. And how exactly do you know Mr Black makes his money from his other business enterprises.......you don't,you're guessing like the people you just accused of doing the same regarding his spending on Braehead or London. |
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LUFC
Ashley Tait
Game On!
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Post by LUFC on Apr 6, 2016 1:37:18 GMT
I love all the speculation about NB taking money from here to fund this and that. First of all, no one has any idea. Since Braehead came along, it's not like our success has dried up has it? Secondly, NB makes his real money on the other business enterprises. It's not like he made his wealthwith panthers. Errr Pot kettle from you there i think Pies. And how exactly do you know Mr Black makes his money from his other business enterprises.......you don't,you're guessing like the people you just accused of doing the same regarding his spending on Braehead or London. Companies House. NB's companies file their accounts with companies house so it's not hard to see where income comes from. Listed assets and income from those are broken down. A simple Google search brings this up. Also why should he spend profit on just Panthers? The company structure clearly shows he has expenditure in the hundreds of thousands. It's not like he is not giving big budgets to the clubs he runs. He is clearly providing revenue to support day to day running and budgets for the squads at significant expense. Two trophies this season. Sure the league place was not very good and mistakes from Panthers management were evident. But does that mean that it was budgeting as the issue? I highly doubt it. End of the day he runs the clubs as profitable business ventures. Both clubs are very successful in getting bums on seats, putting together competitive teams and at the end of the day are very self sufficient. The setting up of a London team does not mean budgets will be cut, does not mean the other teams will be losing out on financial support. All this speculation and conjecture really does get boring. Doing some due diligence and abit of research into how business are structured should help alot of you get your heads around the real situation at the clubs you support. |
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Post by pantherdman on Apr 6, 2016 5:24:44 GMT
Tbh I would rather he spent the money on a sports car than on our rivals. Tbh I'd rather he burnt the money.
As long as he spends all the panthers money on panther I will be happy.
Of course he spent panthers money on breahead.
Please post the link to companies house where I can see what profit he made on panthers, I would love to see it.
Also see if you can find where the money from a sold out playoff weekend goes. Good luck..
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Pies
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Post by Pies on Apr 6, 2016 6:09:29 GMT
I love all the speculation about NB taking money from here to fund this and that. First of all, no one has any idea. Since Braehead came along, it's not like our success has dried up has it? Secondly, NB makes his real money on the other business enterprises. It's not like he made his wealthwith panthers. Errr Pot kettle from you there i think Pies. And how exactly do you know Mr Black makes his money from his other business enterprises.......you don't,you're guessing like the people you just accused of doing the same regarding his spending on Braehead or London. As LUFC pointed out Google is the answer to your questions |
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Post by malsbloke on Apr 6, 2016 7:55:29 GMT
I hope the venture works to expand the league , but anyone remember the London Knights ? It has to be a team that lasts not wither on the hockey vine .
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Post by dusseldorf on Apr 6, 2016 8:10:12 GMT
If anyone is really interested suggest you start searching -
Sportscape Group Limited is located at London at 10/14 Accommodation Road. Anyone can look up the firm by referencing its postal code - NW11 8ED. Sportscape Group's launching dates back to 1997. This business is registered under the number 03400397 and their official state is active
any accountants out there?
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Post by reece182 on Apr 6, 2016 8:42:00 GMT
As long as we're competing at the top and it's not being focused on London then I'm happy So you would be happy if Panthers finished 5th and London won it in their first season then ! Not what I said, I mean as in if they are getting money pumped in but we're still playing in finals or competive in the league getting decent players and playing good hockey I'm happy |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 6, 2016 9:46:41 GMT
Errr Pot kettle from you there i think Pies. And how exactly do you know Mr Black makes his money from his other business enterprises.......you don't,you're guessing like the people you just accused of doing the same regarding his spending on Braehead or London. As LUFC pointed out Google is the answer to your questions No it isn't Pies,ive looked previously. The only info you will see is vague detail within abbreviated accounts on Alladin management or Sportscape Ltd Everything is hidden and quite legally behind a facade of management companies,there are no accounts you can see relating solely to Nottingham Panthers. We are all guessing. But all i want is for the right percentage of money to be spent in relation to each team,not for Panthers to suffer because of what you could term "our money" which was generated from "our fans pockets" being spent on a rival team to the detriment of Panthers. Can you imagine the furore amongst Panther fans if Tony Smith got into financial trouble so Mr Black bought the Steelers and spent big on them and they were successful,whilst Panthers languished in mid table........its very unlikely yes,but it's the same scenario as Braehead or London now ! I have no problem with him spending money on Braehead or London (other than dual ownership issues),but if Panthers are generating the most money,that's where the bigger percentage should be spent. |
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EMB
Randall Weber
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Post by EMB on Apr 6, 2016 10:10:48 GMT
I hope the venture works to expand the league , but anyone remember the London Knights ? It has to be a team that lasts not wither on the hockey vine . London Knights was ran by a relative of Neil Black called Roger Black and we all know what happened to them. |
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Post by panthersdave on Apr 6, 2016 10:28:45 GMT
I hope the venture works to expand the league , but anyone remember the London Knights ? It has to be a team that lasts not wither on the hockey vine . London Knights was ran by a relative of Neil Black called Roger Black and we all know what happened to them. Too much time running round in circles? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 10:59:59 GMT
I hope the venture works to expand the league , but anyone remember the London Knights ? It has to be a team that lasts not wither on the hockey vine . London Knights was ran by a relative of Neil Black called Roger Black and we all know what happened to them. Knights were run by AEG who also run the LA Kings amongst others. Roger Black was in charge of London Racers. |
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Post by texpef on Apr 6, 2016 11:19:52 GMT
It's his money he can spend it how he likes, I personally would rather him spend it on something hockey related than a new shiny Italian car. Im sorry I don't agree with this at all... Why should panthers fans be made to pay to support another teams' success? IF we had a team that won league titles every year and the amount of money spent on the team was reflective of the money the club make from the supporters then any excess i.e. profit then fair enough can be spent how he likes but when it becomes clear that money is not being spent on the on ice product and then its seen to be spent elsewhere I for one then feel like I am being taken for a mug. All imho of course |
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Post by pantherdman on Apr 6, 2016 11:19:55 GMT
Once we've won the league more times than Sheffield and the most ever he can go spending.
Until then, if 100% is not going on panthers he can get out.
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