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Post by panthersdave on Nov 23, 2015 11:12:51 GMT
If we are physical with them and take away their speed then no reason not to win again. ........................... So how did that work out for you then? Clark likely to get at least one game ban from DOPS and a loss. Good plan LOL Genuine question, why will Clarke get a ban? |
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Nov 23, 2015 11:25:52 GMT
if I get started on pick n mix lines(& Corey thinking he knows better than the best coaches in thse world by using this tactic) I will be ranting all night. Can anybody explain the logic behind CN doing this?  We're top of the league, so therefore at the moment, at the very least, it works. |
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Post by ted logan on Nov 23, 2015 11:46:58 GMT
Can anybody explain the logic behind CN doing this? We're top of the league, so therefore at the moment, at the very least, it works. Doesn't really answer the question. Yes, we're top of the league but that's despite this 'tactic' and not because of it. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 23, 2015 12:08:40 GMT
We are top of the league because we have played a ton of home games so far.
Let's see where we are in a months time !
The answer to the lines question is injuries,but that doesn't explain why Corey changes all the lines.
Just leave the other lines as they are and change the one that has the injury,then again that would be easier IF we had a full quota of imports.
I wonder if we might go the whole season without ever icing a full quota of imports.....that would be desperately poor for a Panthers team if we did !
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Nov 23, 2015 12:10:25 GMT
We're top of the league, so therefore at the moment, at the very least, it works. Doesn't really answer the question. Yes, we're top of the league but that's despite this 'tactic' and not because of it. Yes it does. You asked "Can anybody explain the logic behind CN doing this?" I answered "Because it works". That answers the question quite well in my opinion. I will go into a bit more detail. There are a few reasons for mixing the lines about during the games and it works equally as well during home games as it does away. In simple terms it's to give us a distinct advantage against the opposition line matching us. At home we have the second change so opposition coaches have to second guess us if they want to get set match ups for themselves. By switching the lines around, subtly and not just any tom/dick/harry, it means that they cannot get the match ups that they want. Away from home it works in much the same way, the home team will have the second change so they will have an idea on who they want on and against whom. By mixing the lines up a bit it means that they cannot guarantee that they get the match ups they wanted. By mixing the lines around it keeps everyone more fresh too. They're able to keep shift lengths down and select players based on the scenario in front of them instead of sticking around with the same ideas. For years and years Corey Neilson has been criticized for "not having a plan B" or not being able to "switch a game plan to suit during a match" and now he's doing it he seems to be getting criticized for doing it, despite the position we're in. The lines, whilst changing every now and then usually seem to have a set pairing too, so it's not a crazy plan. Schultz and Bohmbach (pre injury to Schultz obviously) were together regularly. Moran and Kolnik were together regularly, Clarke and Myers were together regularly. It seems that we have a few set pairings and we roll a third on the line to play with them to create some unrest and dependent on what we need at the time of that shift. I don't buy into the "we're top of the league but that's despite this 'tactic' and not because of it." ideal either. We're top of the league because so far we are the best team in it. This is based on results of matches, and results of matches are based on tactics and the way the team have played. That for me dictates that we are top of the league, even if it is only a tiny weeny little bit, because of this. A final note, I certainly hope that this gives a bit of an insight. I'm 99.9% sure I won't change your opinion on the matter, but I'd like to think that it's shed a bit of light on the subject. |
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Nov 23, 2015 12:11:55 GMT
To be fair as iginla also mentions, injuries, especially during the games, have a bearing too. |
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Post by ted logan on Nov 23, 2015 13:13:41 GMT
To be fair as iginla also mentions, injuries, especially during the games, have a bearing too. He said plenty more besides, not just that little snippet:- We are top of the league because we have played a ton of home games so far. Let's see where we are in a months time ! The answer to the lines question is injuries,but that doesn't explain why Corey changes all the lines. Just leave the other lines as they are and change the one that has the injury,then again that would be easier IF we had a full quota of imports. I wonder if we might go the whole season without ever icing a full quota of imports.....that would be desperately poor for a Panthers team if we did ! Injuries during a game I get that. Maybe I'm over simplifying it then. The way I see it is that we've got a top quality group of forwards this season, arguably the best in the league. CN will know what his best lines are, let the opposition worry about us. We are easily good enough for that to happen. Look at the Grand Slam season, Ling and Benedict skated on for a shift, you just knew Graham was with them. We had settled lines that season and that didn't work out so badly. |
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Post by fishman on Nov 23, 2015 14:01:36 GMT
Very frustrating, Other teams doing Panthers a favour, Stars beating Devils and Clan winning at Sheffield and then Panthers come away with nothing on Saturday evening, those are the game they have to come away with 1 point at least, remember last season Steelers winning the league by 1 point.
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Nov 23, 2015 14:33:25 GMT
To be fair as iginla also mentions, injuries, especially during the games, have a bearing too. He said plenty more besides, not just that little snippet:- We are top of the league because we have played a ton of home games so far. Let's see where we are in a months time ! The answer to the lines question is injuries,but that doesn't explain why Corey changes all the lines. Just leave the other lines as they are and change the one that has the injury,then again that would be easier IF we had a full quota of imports. I wonder if we might go the whole season without ever icing a full quota of imports.....that would be desperately poor for a Panthers team if we did ! Injuries during a game I get that. Maybe I'm over simplifying it then. The way I see it is that we've got a top quality group of forwards this season, arguably the best in the league. CN will know what his best lines are, let the opposition worry about us. We are easily good enough for that to happen. Look at the Grand Slam season, Ling and Benedict skated on for a shift, you just knew Graham was with them. We had settled lines that season and that didn't work out so badly. He did you're right, but I felt like this thread is already off topic enough without opening the can of worms that is the lack of imports. I do completely understand your view regarding the set lines, especially when you bring up such a brilliant example in Ling/Graham/Benedict, but what also needs to be remembered that year is that Ling and Graham were poor until at least November really, with many people calling for their heads. The line eventually clicked, but that was without Benedict for a while too as it was Ling/Graham/Fox for a while, before Fox moved back to D and Benny took over. I do think that the fact that we run with attacking pairs is the perfect balance of this. We get great chemistry from great pairings and that provides the stability. I would agree completely with your set lines logic if we were seeing Corey run down the whole 13 forwards at a time like below Line 1: A/B/C Line 2: D/E/F Line 3: G/H/I Line 4: J/K/L Line 5: M/A/B Line 6: C/D/E Line 7: F/G/H Line 8: I/J/K etc etc But I think the fact that we have the set pairings helps us. When fully fit we had Bohmbach/Schultz Myers/Clarke Moran/Kolnik and then we had MacMillan, Lachowicz, Mosey, Janssen, Farmer, Betteridge filling in around those lines. Now we have Ling to add to the mix, albeit with Schultz out injured now. It will be interesting to see what happens when Schultz returns. One would presume that they'd want to pair him back with Bohmbach because they were dynamite together, but he's formed just as good chemistry with Kolnik. |
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Post by ted logan on Nov 23, 2015 15:16:39 GMT
He said plenty more besides, not just that little snippet:- Injuries during a game I get that. Maybe I'm over simplifying it then. The way I see it is that we've got a top quality group of forwards this season, arguably the best in the league. CN will know what his best lines are, let the opposition worry about us. We are easily good enough for that to happen. Look at the Grand Slam season, Ling and Benedict skated on for a shift, you just knew Graham was with them. We had settled lines that season and that didn't work out so badly. He did you're right, but I felt like this thread is already off topic enough without opening the can of worms that is the lack of imports. I do completely understand your view regarding the set lines, especially when you bring up such a brilliant example in Ling/Graham/Benedict, but what also needs to be remembered that year is that Ling and Graham were poor until at least November really, with many people calling for their heads. The line eventually clicked, but that was without Benedict for a while too as it was Ling/Graham/Fox for a while, before Fox moved back to D and Benny took over. I do think that the fact that we run with attacking pairs is the perfect balance of this. We get great chemistry from great pairings and that provides the stability. I would agree completely with your set lines logic if we were seeing Corey run down the whole 13 forwards at a time like below Line 1: A/B/C Line 2: D/E/F Line 3: G/H/I Line 4: J/K/L Line 5: M/A/B Line 6: C/D/E Line 7: F/G/H Line 8: I/J/K etc etc But I think the fact that we have the set pairings helps us. When fully fit we had Bohmbach/Schultz Myers/Clarke Moran/Kolnik and then we had MacMillan, Lachowicz, Mosey, Janssen, Farmer, Betteridge filling in around those lines. Now we have Ling to add to the mix, albeit with Schultz out injured now. It will be interesting to see what happens when Schultz returns. One would presume that they'd want to pair him back with Bohmbach because they were dynamite together, but he's formed just as good chemistry with Kolnik. Fair do's. I agree that it can take weeks/months to get the lines right and we struck gold in the grand slam season having struggled slightly for consistency early in the season. I just think he was so close to cracking it very early in the season with the lines up until the point Schultz got injured. Using the set pairings that you mention, we obviously lost the Bohmbach/Schultz paring which was a massive blow. We then lost the Moran/Kolnik pairing as CN put Kolnik on the Bohmbach line. So that was 2 lines broken up through one injury. Which kind of defeats the chemistry and stability thing a little? As I say, I feel that CN is maybe guilty of over thinking things at times. Hopefully when/if we have everybody fit, things will settle down a bit and we will see a bit more consistency. We've got the makings of a top team that should at least be challenging for all of the silverware this season. |
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Post by Bagheera on Nov 23, 2015 18:34:35 GMT
For me it has very little to do with injuries. Granted the last 2 and a bit seasons we have had a huge injury count in terms of man games lost. However as Ted says this doesn't account for mixing up all lines all of the time.
Nor is in game injuries a valid reason as quite often we will finish a game with the same set of forwards we started the game with. All of them logging similar minutes as they would playing on the same lines.
Ive watched enough hockey to know that coaches need to mix it up from time to time to try and get things right. This only usually accounts for 1 or 2 changes per game and no way near the seamingly continual random lines thrown out.
In my eyes it can only be happening for 1 reason. That is Coreys tactics. I've pretty much convinced myself that when they refer to players "learning Coreys systems". They mean getting used to pick and mix lines.
The only reason I can see for him doing this is because he feels it prevents the opposition from having a plan for shutting down certain lines. Personally I think the positive of Lines mates building chemistry far out ways this and think its lunacy. But hey, im just a fan with no hockey experience. This does lead to my previous statememt however. If it is that good a tactic why don't the best coaches employ it?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 23, 2015 18:39:49 GMT
And there you hit the nail on the head Ted.
We lost the Schultz/Bohmbach combination,so instead of leaving Moran and Kolnik together....he splits up both pairings just because one guy got injured !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 19:24:54 GMT
Kolnik and Bohmbach have been superb together I hope schultz will fit in with those two when he returns
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 23, 2015 19:33:51 GMT
True Pidge.
But Moran has dropped off a bit since.
The catalyst is Kolnik,he is real quality,in my opinion the best player in the league.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 20:46:57 GMT
Schultz for me mate the complete forward, as good as we are, we have missed him big time .
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Nov 23, 2015 21:36:18 GMT
True Pidge. But Moran has dropped off a bit since. The catalyst is Kolnik,he is real quality,in my opinion the best player in the league. I agree on Kolnik being the key. |
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Post by wgray on Nov 25, 2015 15:49:09 GMT
Moran's form has dropped off recently due to the fact he has been playing on a line with Lacho and Betteridge, still a very good player, but I think he needs players around him that he can pick out i.e. Kolnik
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Post by wgray on Nov 25, 2015 15:58:15 GMT
In regards to forward lines, if we had all our players fit and had set lines that didn't alter, what would you like them to be?
I personally like the look of
Lacho Moran Kolnik
Schultz Bohmbach Ling
Clarke Myers Mosey
Farmer Macmillan Janssen
Betteridge
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