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Post by Rob Scott on Oct 19, 2012 20:53:26 GMT
Same old Leeds....
Dirty, Dirty Leeds...
Absolute disgrace. They should get a points deduction for that.
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Post by Stargazer on Oct 20, 2012 14:52:01 GMT
And I didn't think football could get any lower this week!
I would like to think the FA would take immediate and severe action against Leeds for this, with Dave Jones getting his wish. But realistically the FA will take an age and probably bottle it and issue a meaningless fine which wont even trouble them.
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Post by james1977 on Oct 21, 2012 9:41:58 GMT
All soccer teams have idiot supporters, I experienced the joy that is racist and bigoted chanting from Notts County fans on the train into Nottingham last night. Interestingly a few of the more gobby fans seemed to shut up pretty quick when a few of their number were arrested at Beeston.
Hopefully (in the Leeds case) the league will take action against them but I believe little will be done and whatever it is will compound the view that many Leeds fans have the 'the establishment' are out to get them.
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Post by PantherTom on Oct 21, 2012 12:12:17 GMT
Same old Leeds.... Dirty, Dirty Leeds... Absolute disgrace. They should get a points deduction for that. Same old Leeds! Always been dirty scum!
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 21, 2012 20:15:17 GMT
And I didn't think football could get any lower this week! I would like to think the FA would take immediate and severe action against Leeds for this, with Dave Jones getting his wish. But realistically the FA will take an age and probably bottle it and issue a meaningless fine which wont even trouble them. What exactly can Leeds do about it? It was an away game so the Wednesday stewards were to blame. They can't just ban people indefinitely and there evidently was no pre-warning that he was going to do that.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 22, 2012 10:29:25 GMT
Is this about that bloke from Cheltenham who ran on to a pitch in Sheffield and assaulted someone? For that Leeds should get a points deduction? Seriously?
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Post by Rob Scott on Oct 22, 2012 10:32:16 GMT
Is this about that bloke from Cheltenham who ran on to a pitch in Sheffield and assaulted someone? For that Leeds should get a points deduction? Seriously? Yep sure. As you point out it's nothing to do with Leeds or Leeds fans...
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 22, 2012 10:53:30 GMT
Is this about that bloke from Cheltenham who ran on to a pitch in Sheffield and assaulted someone? For that Leeds should get a points deduction? Seriously? Yep sure. As you point out it's nothing to do with Leeds or Leeds fans... I made no such assertion. I just think it best to try and keep things in perspective.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Oct 22, 2012 11:26:12 GMT
The idiot in question will hopefully do time.
But I think something that punishes the wider fanbase isn't necessarily a bad thing, or unfair. The guy was getting slapped on the back when he got back into the crowd, and it wasn't just the assault on Kirkland, they were ripping seats up too I believe. It would also encourage the fanbase as a whole to make a stand against the moronic element to prevent it happening again.
I'd ban their away support for a few games, admittedly this also hurts the clubs they'd be visiting, but thems the breaks.
As a side note, I've read that the guy in question was already banned from attending. I've always wondered how they ever police that.
Also they need to ask questions of the scheduling, stewarding and policing of the game. Not that any of that is an excuse for thuggery and hooliganism.
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Post by Rob Scott on Oct 22, 2012 11:28:58 GMT
The idiot in question will hopefully do time. But I think something that punishes the wider fanbase isn't necessarily a bad thing, or unfair. The guy was getting slapped on the back when he got back into the crowd, and it wasn't just the assault on Kirkland, they were ripping seats up too I believe. It would also encourage the fanbase as a whole to make a stand against the moronic element to prevent it happening again. I'd ban their away support for a few games, admittedly this also hurts the clubs they'd be visiting, but thems the breaks. As a side note, I've read that the guy in question was already banned from attending. I've always wondered how they ever police that. Also they need to ask questions of the scheduling, stewarding and policing of the game. Not that any of that is an excuse for thuggery and hooliganism. Good post. Apparently the bloke has been sent down for 4 months this morning. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20025830
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Oct 22, 2012 11:34:42 GMT
Yes, 16 weeks (so that'll be about 8 weeks in reality) and a 5 year football banning order, which appears to have worked brilliantly in the past:
Impossible to police a banning order at any club where tickets don't end up going to named persons, I would have thought.
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Post by ted logan on Oct 22, 2012 15:14:02 GMT
The idiot in question will hopefully do time. But I think something that punishes the wider fanbase isn't necessarily a bad thing, or unfair. The guy was getting slapped on the back when he got back into the crowd, and it wasn't just the assault on Kirkland, they were ripping seats up too I believe. It would also encourage the fanbase as a whole to make a stand against the moronic element to prevent it happening again. I'd ban their away support for a few games, admittedly this also hurts the clubs they'd be visiting, but thems the breaks. As a side note, I've read that the guy in question was already banned from attending. I've always wondered how they ever police that. Also they need to ask questions of the scheduling, stewarding and policing of the game. Not that any of that is an excuse for thuggery and hooliganism. Good post. Apparently the bloke has been sent down for 4 months this morning. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20025830Seriously - he only got 4 months!!!! So the guy that jumped into the Thames during the Boat Race got 6 months and this cretin gets 4 months for running on the pitch and attacking Chris Kirkland - how do you figure that one out? The only way I can see this ban being enforced is to make him report to his local police station at kick off time every time Leeds play. Lock the scumbag up for a few hours every week. Maybe, put an ex-Player in his cell with him on the odd occasion too so he can attack them? Not a mild mannered goalkeeper but the likes of Neil Ruddock, Vinnie Jones, Roy Keane should be fine
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Post by Stargazer on Oct 22, 2012 20:41:54 GMT
And I didn't think football could get any lower this week! I would like to think the FA would take immediate and severe action against Leeds for this, with Dave Jones getting his wish. But realistically the FA will take an age and probably bottle it and issue a meaningless fine which wont even trouble them. What exactly can Leeds do about it? It was an away game so the Wednesday stewards were to blame. They can't just ban people indefinitely and there evidently was no pre-warning that he was going to do that. They need to get there house in order because this is not isolated in my opinion. Its the attitude that needs to change, a few months back I saw a man in Tesco with a Leeds t-shirt that had "WE ARE LEEDS F~CK THE REST OF YOU!" written across the front. I mean, who actually sells that kind of merchandise? Its just not healthy for the game and hes not the only Leeds fan with those kind of views. Yes every club has its set of numpty fans but Leeds seem to have them in abundance. I don't expect people to share my views but as well as the individual being punished I also thing the FA should take some sort of action.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 22, 2012 21:49:33 GMT
Do you really think that t-shirt is official Leeds merchandise?
I don't like Leeds. In fact, I hate the buggers. It's ludicrous to blame the club for what happened on Friday though, there is literally nothing they could legally do to stop this.
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Post by Stargazer on Oct 22, 2012 22:57:11 GMT
Do you really think that t-shirt is official Leeds merchandise? I don't like Leeds. In fact, I hate the buggers. It's ludicrous to blame the club for what happened on Friday though, there is literally nothing they could legally do to stop this. No, it was a crap t-shirt but it was clear he didn't make it himself. My point was that they went into some kind of level of production, probably small and only in Leeds! I appreciate your point and you are no doubt correct but its just one too many incidents involving that club for me.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Oct 22, 2012 23:05:52 GMT
Seriously - he only got 4 months!!!! So the guy that jumped into the Thames during the Boat Race got 6 months and this cretin gets 4 months for running on the pitch and attacking Chris Kirkland - how do you figure that one out? According to the Beeb, he was in breach of his last football banning order by being there, which according to the Home Office carries in itself a maximum prison sentence of 6 months. So on top of that and the televised assault, they get 4 months? Unbelievable stuff.
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LUFC
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Post by LUFC on Oct 23, 2012 14:25:17 GMT
What he did was disgusting, i wont stand up and ever back a person like that.
But all this talk about abnning us all because of this individual is pathetic. Every team has bad fans. I myself have been assaulted by Forrest fans while i was waiting for a train to go to a Leeds Match. There are fans of every team in this country who give little or no regard for anyone else they just want to get drunk, enjoy themselves and cause trouble. This can be clamped down on but it's totally unfair to taint us all with the same brush.
For your info there Wednesday fans started the riots, in the side stand there was a group of about 200 they first started chanting about Turkey and the two Leeds fans that got killed. Leeds fans retaliated by directing it at Jones. This then caused Wednesday fans to rip up seats and more in their area. So much so the police had to start ejecting them from that area.
Nothing is said about that in the news, yet i was there i was first hand watching the game. Most Leeds fans were turned towards the players when that pathetic man assaulted Kirkland, i myself didnt even know it had happened until i saw him on the ground and wondered why.
The majority of the 5000 fans there are law abiding fans, who spend alot of money to follow their team around the country. we spend 80+ per year just for a flimsy membership card which has to be used to buy away tickets with, then we can only buy a limited amount and take id with us to games. So how these fans get around the banning order is beyond me. So you cannot blame the club nor the other fans for the actions of afew. What would you have me do on an away day, challenge a group of 40 lads to settle down and get on with the match? Please you're living in dream land if you feel we can do that.
End of the day, the police and clubs need to work together to tackle these guys who at every club abuse the system, get around banning orders and ruin the game for the majority.
Also Sheffield Wednesday need to look into their stewarding. They should have listened to the chanting and realised they needed to reinforce infront of the fans of various sections. There was 20 infront of the Leeds crowd before the goal. 20!! thats ridiculous. What did they really expect to happen when goal crazed fans want to go onto the pitch? 20 vs 5000 jubilant jumping up and down shouting fans is ridiculous.
Anyway enough of this, the guy got his 4months in jail and will never be associated with my club again. the fans dont want him, the club doesnt want him. He has lost his job and now spending time in jail. Penance will be served. Sure i too believe it should have been longer, but for what he was charged with the judge could only give 6months, as he pleaded guilty that meant he got it reduced. (some have compared it to the boat fella, well he claimed he was innocent, thats why he got 6months) Either way, Not every Leeds fan like myself needs to be punished for the minority.
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Post by Rob Scott on Oct 23, 2012 14:31:44 GMT
You say the guy will never be associated with your club again. Unfortunately this is untrue. He will forever be associated with the club as yet another disgraceful chapter in its history.
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LUFC
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Post by LUFC on Oct 23, 2012 14:49:55 GMT
You say the guy will never be associated with your club again. Unfortunately this is untrue. He will forever be associated with the club as yet another disgraceful chapter in its history. I find your tone as offensive as you find what he did. I am not picking apart your favourite club, though i could if i wanted too. I am very much sure you have had some seriously bad chapters in your history too. However when it comes to Leeds alot of it is drivel and the same stories churned up by those that want to dislike us rather than truths.
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Post by Rob Scott on Oct 23, 2012 14:51:49 GMT
You say the guy will never be associated with your club again. Unfortunately this is untrue. He will forever be associated with the club as yet another disgraceful chapter in its history. I find your tone as offensive as you find what he did. I am not picking apart your favourite club, though i could if i wanted too. I am very much sure you have had some seriously bad chapters in your history too. However when it comes to Leeds alot of it is drivel and the same stories churned up by those that want to dislike us rather than truths. My tone as offensive as assault? Do me a favour. You really are talking rubbish now.
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Post by ted logan on Oct 23, 2012 14:54:10 GMT
You say the guy will never be associated with your club again. Unfortunately this is untrue. He will forever be associated with the club as yet another disgraceful chapter in its history. I find your tone as offensive as you find what he did. Seriously? Come off it LUFC - you made some very valid points in your earlier post but that's a bit of an odd statement (no offence) to put it mildly
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Post by ted logan on Oct 23, 2012 15:29:49 GMT
Seriously - he only got 4 months!!!! So the guy that jumped into the Thames during the Boat Race got 6 months and this cretin gets 4 months for running on the pitch and attacking Chris Kirkland - how do you figure that one out? According to the Beeb, he was in breach of his last football banning order by being there, which according to the Home Office carries in itself a maximum prison sentence of 6 months. So on top of that and the televised assault, they get 4 months? Unbelievable stuff. Just makes it worse - I can see that they (the police/justice system etc) were trying to make a stand by being seen to act quickly and decisively which is commendable. Committed the crime Friday and locked up by Monday He needs to fear the punishment though if/when he breaches this latest banning order. Still think he got off light and the official word coming out of Elland Road is that they think he got off light too. If the idiot is even seen inside a football ground then this 6 month prison term should be invoked - minimum sentence. Really is quite sad that after a momentous summer of sport, football is being dragged into the gutter again
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Post by Stargazer on Oct 23, 2012 16:31:27 GMT
I stand by my opinion. I'm not saying a ban is the answer, in all honesty it would probably make the situation worse with the resolve of the 'Leeds v The Rest of the World' mentality being further fuelled and I personally think it's that that needs to change and that can only happen internally. I'm not looking at this one incident and acting on impulse. This, as ftm says, is just another in a long line.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 23, 2012 19:34:20 GMT
You say the guy will never be associated with your club again. Unfortunately this is untrue. He will forever be associated with the club as yet another disgraceful chapter in its history. I find your tone as offensive as you find what he did. I am not picking apart your favourite club, though i could if i wanted too. I am very much sure you have had some seriously bad chapters in your history too. However when it comes to Leeds alot of it is drivel and the same stories churned up by those that want to dislike us rather than truths. Well, it's not though is it? It's really not. Without any disrespect, how old are you?
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Post by LUFC on Oct 23, 2012 20:53:09 GMT
I find your tone as offensive as you find what he did. I am not picking apart your favourite club, though i could if i wanted too. I am very much sure you have had some seriously bad chapters in your history too. However when it comes to Leeds alot of it is drivel and the same stories churned up by those that want to dislike us rather than truths. Well, it's not though is it? It's really not. Without any disrespect, how old are you? My age is irrelevant, if i feel someone is offending me, then they are. I You cannot tell me, that many people have not just jumped on the Leeds bashing bandwagon just because they dislike us. Is it any wonder we have a mentality of Leeds vs the World, when whatever happens we get bashed. Leeds beat a team. "they played dirty" or "dirty leeds as always". If people are going to label us, then we're going to take that label and turn it into something we can get around and back. Nobody likes being labeled and nobody likes being tainted with the same brush as something we despise. The majority of Leeds fans do no trouble, support their team through the ups and downs. But we all have one thing we unite behind, the good the bad and the ugly. We get behind our team and take thousands to away games, we turn up and support our team and we give our all. We often get accused of being the bad boys causing trouble. Yet have any of you ever been there when 100 youths from the Home side are charging down a group of men, women and children as scare tactics? Have any of you ever been caught up in trouble that all you did wrong was turn to the left toilets instead of the away fans toilets? This sort of thing happens week in week out around the country. But because of one fans actions on one particular match. We all get this dirty leeds scum label attached. How could we not find this offensive? We get called more names than anything. If they want our mentality to change. perhaps you should change your mentality towards Leeds and stop backing us into a stance. The reason i find it offensive is because i am Leeds through and through, supported them since my first home game at 5. Been going to home and away games as many as i could since then year after year. When my club gets branded about as being disgraceful, that to me is you calling us all disgraceful and that is not on. Like i have said the Club and the majority of fans love the club, the sport and follow it with such a passion. There is no need to claim this as being a blot on Leeds. The blame can very much be spread out. He was caught twice with fake id and in breach of banning orders prior. why did the prosecution service not lock him up then? Why were the police and stewards slow to react when slight trouble broke out? This isolated incident of a lone fan acting as a drunken lout could have happened at any ground anywhere. It will now always be seen as a Leeds blot, but it shouldnt. It should be seen as a wider issue in the country and as thus tackled appropriately at a national level.
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