iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 16, 2012 20:49:16 GMT
Just looking at the current situation for this week,with Heerema out injured and Macaslan flying home,that leaves us going to Belfast on Saturday without a full quota of imports for a game that,should we lose, is most definately the final nail in our league title hopes this year.
Gm will need a very good distraction package to cover why we are short handed for a huge game against a main rival when they have a couple of spare imports.
Quite frankly it stinks,if it makes money Panthers love it,but if it costs money Panthers don't wanna know !
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Post by james1977 on Jan 16, 2012 20:58:06 GMT
"Here Panthers fans, look at the shiny, shiny........"
Oh and don't forget to get those season ticket applications in early for next season, Neil wants a G5.....
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 17, 2012 0:42:47 GMT
Closer to the truth, I think... but still not there. I don't think that anyone is "content" to lose, however entertaining the game... what I think is that we have a situation where we have a vocal minority here on the forum who only seem to be satisfied by finding fault - no matter how hard they have to look - and anyone who doesn't jump on their condemnation bandwagon is derided as being "happy to lose" or a "happy-clapper" or some other such rubbish. There appears to be a view that if we don't win every single game or if we don't win the league then it's all 100% crap, everyone should be fired, and anyone who dares to disagree with this mindset is part of the problem and should join those in front of the firing squad. Basically, some people really need to get a grip... sorry about this shaggy but it really is a load of Bull, Personally speaking now i am not happy to moan, i moan because i am not happy its that simple. I dont expect panthers to win every game just one more than any one else. THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT THE CASE THIS SEASON. You can believe what ever you want thats your perogative but please dont tell me that i am happy to moan when the panthers loose, i am just unhappy when they do and am just expressing that particular feeling that is all. This is especially true when we play teams who are not as well supported and as financially stable as panthers and/or are short staffed. Imho it is unacceptable to loose. Tex - whether you are "happy to moan" or not, all you ever seem to do is moan. When things are going well, when we're winning... you are either very very quiet, or finding something else to complain about (the refs, the thought of actually playing the backup netminder, etc etc). When we lose... the floodgates open. I mean... it;s ALWAYS negative with you! I can understand people being unhappy when things go wrong - hell, I'm unhappy as well! But this never-ending stream of negativity (not just from you, Texpef) about just about anything under the sun... the constant demands for this person or that person to be got rid of (Neilson, GM, Heerema, Wilson, all of the Brits, even Neil Black! etc etc)... it's beyond a ruddy joke! And woe betide anyone who opposes that kind of viewpoint... they're either a "happy-clapper" or "not a real fan" or "don't want to win" or some other such rot. And then there's all of the assumptions... how the moaners always seem to know exactly what's wrong and exactly how to fix it (funny that half the time they can't even agree amongst themselves on the specifics, but never mind - they're always right, remember! ). Oh, GM is the one constant, it must be all his fault. Oh, this or that player 'obviously' doesn't care, it's all his fault. Oh, Neil Black is only in it for the money, 100% mercenary, not even the slightest tinge of wanting to win. Oh, it's all the fault of the fans who applaud the team off the ice when they lose, they're showing the team that they don't need to care. Yadda yadda bloody yadda. Ever hear of a bit of BALANCE, guys? Moderation (in the non-forum sense), middle ground... not everything is extremes, you know. But no... it's ALL this way or that way, it's 100% wrong, this guy cares NOTHING for the team, blah blah blah. Like I said - some of you lot really need to get a grip.
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Post by pingchowchi on Jan 17, 2012 8:07:55 GMT
If there was a thanks button you would have got it shaggy
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 586
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Post by doug on Jan 17, 2012 10:51:13 GMT
Don't mince words Shaggy, tell it like it is!!
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Post by texpef on Jan 17, 2012 12:09:51 GMT
Wheres my posts as to who to release Shaggy? Yes i would like a coach who can do what the name implies but other than that please tell?.. i dare you to search this year (as i know you are sad enough to)
As far as views on refs backups etc thats my view whether this is negative (in your opinion) or not is irrelevent as it is just MY VIEW, i am not saying you have to agree with it or even change you view to it BUT it is my view. Yes i feel sometimes referees to affect (and have already this season, ask belfast about carson in sheffield) and i express my view on that. Also we pay allegedly alot of money for an import netminder why then would i be happy that we play a brit who is playing basically for a free shirt? Again MY VIEW nothing more... so whats with the personal attack havent attacked you...
As this is aimed at me (ie you name me specifically) again i challenge you please go back and find a post where i claim you (or anyone) arent a proper fan or dont want the team to win, i am sure every fan wants their team to win they just express this in different ways, for example on a"personal level" i dont applaud the team when they lose i dont see the point, they lost...
As for fixing the panthers problem as with most things i "suspect" its about the cash but who knows i certainly dont...
Please dont go on about balance as all i hear from you is that i shouldnt moan when the team throw away another league title hows that for not being balanced....
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 17, 2012 13:39:51 GMT
Texpef - perhaps you should do us both a favour and atually read what I have actually said before going off on one about it. My original post was not aimed specifically at you - I was speaking about a "vocal minority" (of which you are undoubtedly a part)... it was you who then decided to make this about yourself. If it helps to remove your obvious confusion, only the first paragraph of my last post was specifically aimed at you... everything else was, again, speaking of said vocal minority.
And I'll thank you not to be calling me - or anyone else, for that matter - "sad" on this forum.
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Post by supermattytrickett on Jan 17, 2012 17:27:08 GMT
Sick of GM spin, Crap cheesy PR, stupid catchphrases and most of all, shoddy results. GM thinks he's professional. Any fool can see, he's not. There sounds a nail being firmly whacked on the head. Any half-decent professional whose worked a little in promotions and marketing could make a fist of keeping this organisation afloat. I too am sick of the spin, the half-baked and shoddy press releases, culture of superiority that has developed under Moran's watch. There's far too many times over the years that i've thought the Nottingham Panthers seems to simply be a vanity project for 'GM the GM'. Yes, he's advanced the organisation in some ways. I won't deny him that acknowledgment, but he's been in the right place at the right time. Like you say, his cheesiness on occasions would probably make someone like Dale Winton blush and i'm not sure I want the public face of this club to be a figure of fun, even amongst fans of the team he works for. Give me a serious, knowledgeable hockey guy to head up the Nottingham Panthers IHC. That in itself should send out the message to other clubs that we mean business and we want that elusive league title and will leave no stone unturned until we get it.
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Post by Spooks on Jan 17, 2012 19:22:41 GMT
I cant belive people are still defending the organisation that is the panthers in its current state over the years.
The GM has been deserving the sack for what seems like a eternity.
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Post by elliottstanley on Jan 17, 2012 20:29:47 GMT
Texpef - perhaps you should do us both a favour and atually read what I have actually said before going off on one about it. My original post was not aimed specifically at you - I was speaking about a "vocal minority" (of which you are undoubtedly a part)... it was you who then decided to make this about yourself. If it helps to remove your obvious confusion, only the first paragraph of my last post was specifically aimed at you... everything else was, again, speaking of said vocal minority. And I'll thank you not to be calling me - or anyone else, for that matter - "sad" on this forum. Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if the majority agree with me or not. I'm quite happy to be in a minority of 1 if that was the case. I wouldn't call it a vocal minority. How many people actually read this "little forum"? Not Mr Moran of course. I don't like the way the club operates, I don't like Gary Moran and I feel thoroughly short changed from the past few years of loyally following the club; both financially and through miles travelled. As a result the club have lost out on roughly £1400 (conservative estimate) from me this season. So whilst some people can be, legitimately, labelled as 'moaners' and I'm more than happy to be lumped in with them if that means i'm willing to speak my mind, I'd also point out that I've backed up my 'moaning' with action. I'm not the only ex-sponsor, season ticket holder to get to this place, not by a long way - eventually the well WILL run dry and the club will be in a bad place. You CANNOT operate on minimal core support / customer base - too many of that core, die hard support have been, and continue to be, alienated; and when the bad times come, which they will, all businesses have them, we'll be on thin ice. Of course this doesn't mean I stop supporting the team, it isn't that easy. I despise the way the club is run but I love Nottingham Panthers as much as I ever have, it's in your blood - which makes it all the more upsetting to feel so royally hacked off with them.
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 17, 2012 20:34:02 GMT
The org is just boring and stale. it's like groundhog day every year. Same speel on the tannoy Same music Same adverts Same results
We keep carrying out the same action and expect different answers
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Post by Spooks on Jan 17, 2012 21:29:26 GMT
Same here i attend maybe 2 or 3 games a season now if that, and its been that way for the past 4 years or so.
I am a armchair panthers fan and until the current organisation changes it will stay that way, i guess. The club has so much potential its wasted.
But people will keep on paying to see the "best team on paper" year on on year with nothing but the noddy cup and the so called biggest game in UK hockey, "panthers vs steelers" yawn yawn yawn.
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Post by texpef on Jan 17, 2012 21:31:03 GMT
sorry about this shaggy but it really is a load of Bull, Personally speaking now i am not happy to moan, i moan because i am not happy its that simple. I dont expect panthers to win every game just one more than any one else. THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT THE CASE THIS SEASON. You can believe what ever you want thats your perogative but please dont tell me that i am happy to moan when the panthers loose, i am just unhappy when they do and am just expressing that particular feeling that is all. This is especially true when we play teams who are not as well supported and as financially stable as panthers and/or are short staffed. Imho it is unacceptable to loose. Tex - whether you are "happy to moan" or not, all you ever seem to do is moan. When things are going well, when we're winning... you are either very very quiet, or finding something else to complain about (the refs, the thought of actually playing the backup netminder, etc etc). When we lose... the floodgates open. I mean... it;s ALWAYS negative with you! I can understand people being unhappy when things go wrong - hell, I'm unhappy as well! But this never-ending stream of negativity (not just from you, Texpef) about just about anything under the sun... the constant demands for this person or that person to be got rid of (Neilson, GM, Heerema, Wilson, all of the Brits, even Neil Black! etc etc)... it's beyond a ruddy joke! And woe betide anyone who opposes that kind of viewpoint... they're either a "happy-clapper" or "not a real fan" or "don't want to win" or some other such rot. And then there's all of the assumptions... how the moaners always seem to know exactly what's wrong and exactly how to fix it (funny that half the time they can't even agree amongst themselves on the specifics, but never mind - they're always right, remember! ). Oh, GM is the one constant, it must be all his fault. Oh, this or that player 'obviously' doesn't care, it's all his fault. Oh, Neil Black is only in it for the money, 100% mercenary, not even the slightest tinge of wanting to win. Oh, it's all the fault of the fans who applaud the team off the ice when they lose, they're showing the team that they don't need to care. Yadda yadda bloody yadda. Ever hear of a bit of BALANCE, guys? Moderation (in the non-forum sense), middle ground... not everything is extremes, you know. But no... it's ALL this way or that way, it's 100% wrong, this guy cares NOTHING for the team, blah blah blah. Like I said - some of you lot really need to get a grip. Then dont make it confusing you started post addressing me directly it then isnt unreasonable to think that the whole thing is aimed at me is it?... If it isnt then so be it... As for the sad commment, lets be honest here shaggy you arent backwards at searching threads to back up your own opinion here are you? Perhaps sad was not the correct term here!!! I'll let you fill in the correct one eh!! I would disagree about vocal minority especially on here, i would personally think that the majority are getting fed up with panthers bottling the league around christmas every season especially longer term fans. As i stated on another thread there will come a time when the loss of older fans does not equal the influx of new fans and then the existing model of fleecing the fans with the minimum of effort and expense will have to be rethought.
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Ghost
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,698
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Post by Ghost on Jan 17, 2012 21:31:30 GMT
There's something more than a dodgy Xmas run and a bit of bad luck needed to give a 57 year drought.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 17, 2012 22:48:46 GMT
Texpef - perhaps you should do us both a favour and atually read what I have actually said before going off on one about it. My original post was not aimed specifically at you - I was speaking about a "vocal minority" (of which you are undoubtedly a part)... it was you who then decided to make this about yourself. If it helps to remove your obvious confusion, only the first paragraph of my last post was specifically aimed at you... everything else was, again, speaking of said vocal minority. And I'll thank you not to be calling me - or anyone else, for that matter - "sad" on this forum. Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if the majority agree with me or not. I'm quite happy to be in a minority of 1 if that was the case. I wouldn't call it a vocal minority. How many people actually read this "little forum"? Not Mr Moran of course. No, but someone in the Panthers office obviously does... Then you have the courage of your convictions... an attribute that can only be respected, even when or if one disagrees with your viewpoint. Personally, I have mixed views on both the way the club operates and Gary Moran himself. Some things I see as positive, others negative... you know - sort of how most things tend to be in real life. Pity that the vocal minority to which I referred appear to be devoted to the idea that absolutely everything is wrong, that the club and/or GM can do no right whatsoever, etc etc. Perhaps they should join the real world... An overall attitude which can only be respected for it's integrity, if not content IMHO. And, whether you are to be considered a "moaner" or not, Elliott... you are not just a "moaner"... seeing as you are actually capable of providing a clear and logical argument to back up your views. Something which many in said minority appear incapable of doing - instead resorting to simple aggression, the written equivalent of foaming at the mouth or - at best - blind rhetoric. Probably Daily Mail readers...
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 17, 2012 23:04:02 GMT
Tex - whether you are "happy to moan" or not, all you ever seem to do is moan. When things are going well, when we're winning... you are either very very quiet, or finding something else to complain about (the refs, the thought of actually playing the backup netminder, etc etc). When we lose... the floodgates open. I mean... it;s ALWAYS negative with you! I can understand people being unhappy when things go wrong - hell, I'm unhappy as well! But this never-ending stream of negativity (not just from you, Texpef) about just about anything under the sun... the constant demands for this person or that person to be got rid of (Neilson, GM, Heerema, Wilson, all of the Brits, even Neil Black! etc etc)... it's beyond a ruddy joke! And woe betide anyone who opposes that kind of viewpoint... they're either a "happy-clapper" or "not a real fan" or "don't want to win" or some other such rot. And then there's all of the assumptions... how the moaners always seem to know exactly what's wrong and exactly how to fix it (funny that half the time they can't even agree amongst themselves on the specifics, but never mind - they're always right, remember! ). Oh, GM is the one constant, it must be all his fault. Oh, this or that player 'obviously' doesn't care, it's all his fault. Oh, Neil Black is only in it for the money, 100% mercenary, not even the slightest tinge of wanting to win. Oh, it's all the fault of the fans who applaud the team off the ice when they lose, they're showing the team that they don't need to care. Yadda yadda bloody yadda. Ever hear of a bit of BALANCE, guys? Moderation (in the non-forum sense), middle ground... not everything is extremes, you know. But no... it's ALL this way or that way, it's 100% wrong, this guy cares NOTHING for the team, blah blah blah. Like I said - some of you lot really need to get a grip. Then dont make it confusing you started post addressing me directly it then isnt unreasonable to think that the whole thing is aimed at me is it?... If it isnt then so be it... Well, if it's continuity of subject that's confusing you... perhaps the phrase "not just from you, Texpef" early in the second paragraph could have been a bit of a giveaway that the focus had shifted away from yourself? That is if simply reading it wasn't enough to clue you in. Pardon me for actually daring to believe that you use your brain for more than just keeping your ears apart... dear oh dear, you can't show someone some respect these days without it coming back to bite you on the bum. So... I'm supposedly "sad" because of... something I hadn't actually done in this thread? That's a good one. And what exactly is wrong with providing examples or evidence to back up one's claims or opinions? Surely that's more intellectually honest than simply spouting off and assuming that you are in the right just because it's you saying it? How egotistical... The vocal minority to which I refer are those who keep banging on about such subjects... they are most definitely a (small) minority of Cage members, who are in turn a minority of the total fanbase (seeing as there are a lot of Cage members who aren't even Panthers fans). You may believe - or want to believe - that you are in the majority... but the evidence doesn't support that belief. That's certainly possible... and if it did occur, you are quite correct (on point if not on rhetoric IMHO) - the club's approach would have to change. How likely this is, how good or bad the situation is and is likely to get etc, is of course open to debate - far from the certainty that you appear to embrace.
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Post by texpef on Jan 18, 2012 2:57:31 GMT
That is if simply reading it wasn't enough to clue you in. Pardon me for actually daring to believe that you use your brain for more than just keeping your ears apart
Isnt that name calling that you yourself accuse others of.
As for the sad comment i said perhaps that wasnt the correct word, again something you criticise others of not doing, reading what others have written...
The vocal minority to which I refer are those who keep banging on about such subjects... they are most definitely a (small) minority of Cage members, who are in turn a minority of the total fanbase (seeing as there are a lot of Cage members who aren't even Panthers fans). You may believe - or want to believe - that you are in the majority... but the evidence doesn't support that belief.
In your opinion its a minority but without the benefit of a poll the majority of posters imho tend to agree that panthers management do not spend enough on the playing staff and do make alot of mistakes as regards some of the choices of direction the club are going in. Yes alot of posters on the cage are from other fan bases but again imho the VAST majority are indeed panthers fans and given the number of members now signed up on the cage it may not be the "small" minority you were claiming... Now hows that for evidence? Wheres yours?...
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Post by texpef on Jan 18, 2012 3:05:46 GMT
Quote:As i stated on another thread there will come a time when the loss of older fans does not equal the influx of new fans and then the existing model of fleecing the fans with the minimum of effort and expense will have to be rethought.
That's certainly possible... and if it did occur, you are quite correct (on point if not on rhetoric IMHO) - the club's approach would have to change. How likely this is, how good or bad the situation is and is likely to get etc, is of course open to debate - far from the certainty that you appear to embrace.
OK well first off GM himself has stated that there is a substantial number of fan turnover but without the club records its impossible to get a true record of this.. So if this isnt open for debate but in fact is an actual fact then the scenario will occur at some point in the future. So now the debate isnt will this happen but when. Now at the moment crowds are doing well, however if we are starting at a point where the old rink left off ie 3000 ish fans we are now on what approx 4500? ish fans? then the crowd has grown approx 1500 over the last 10 years? thats an increase of 150 a year? BUT we dont know the attrition rate do you without that we cannot possibly know for how much longer this is sustainable but it isnt what you call a huge increase is it... Personally gone as far as i care to with this but if anyone can publish the yearly average since moving into the arena it might be interesting to see if there is an attrition pattern...
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Post by richard1969 on Jan 18, 2012 7:11:45 GMT
I actually belive it would be in our owners interests for Braehead Clan to be at least as successful if not more succesful than us for the next couple of years
Our crowds are good and steady and as we keep accepting on here our numbers dont seem to be impacted by us not winning the League - and we are financially sound
Braehead are on the rise - you read their forum and there is a buzz about what they are doing and they are all encouraging each other to spread the word and bring friends along
Obviously if new fans were going to support the Clan and teams like us were hammering them every week then it would be hard to grow the fanbase
They have momentum - we are just stagnant as a few posters above have commented
Wouldnt surprise me if they win the League before we do at all and before long I think they will have crowds close to 4,000 (not sure what their capacity is)
I say all this becasue there is no incentive for NB to break the bank to give us a squad cpable of domintaing the League at all - in fact it could probably do more damage to the League than good if we steamrollered the League
Every year he will just give us a squad that could be good enough with a bit of luck etc but nothing more than that - it actually helps the EIHL overall that no team is way ahead of the rest IMO
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Post by richard1969 on Jan 18, 2012 7:12:52 GMT
The org is just boring and stale. it's like groundhog day every year. Same speel on the tannoy Same music Same adverts Same results We keep carrying out the same action and expect different answers That above sums up the organisation very well
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Post by pantherman66 on Jan 18, 2012 8:01:02 GMT
richard1969, why would Braehead, with NB as owner, want to win the league, when Panthers with NB as owner apparently don't want to win the league. This is working on the conspiracy theory that, winning the league leads to fans not attending any more! There might be a buzz about the place and crowds may be rising, but they will eventually find their loyal fan base and crowds will plateau. The trick is to keep that fan base, 'a la' Panthers, winning trophies or not winning trophies. I hope they can acheive this, just not as often as Panthers!
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
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Post by Shorty on Jan 18, 2012 8:37:33 GMT
Im surprised that some posters on here actually keep turning up to games. Nottingham must be the capital of Sadomasochism.
Our crowds should really plummet now. The fans who think its "league or nothing" shouldnt really be going to any more games now. as its highly unlikely we will win it.
The fans who think the challenge cup is not worth winning should not be going to the final.
The fans who think the playoffs are a watered down excuse of a competition should not be going.
Or perhaps they are all as apathetic as the club is meant to be.
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Post by pantherman66 on Jan 18, 2012 8:58:00 GMT
Spot on Shorty.
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jester
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 533
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Post by jester on Jan 18, 2012 9:10:43 GMT
Im surprised that some posters on here actually keep turning up to games. Nottingham must be the capital of Sadomasochism. Our crowds should really plummet now. The fans who think its "league or nothing" shouldnt really be going to any more games now. as its highly unlikely we will win it. The fans who think the challenge cup is not worth winning should not be going to the final. The fans who think the playoffs are a watered down excuse of a competition should not be going. Or perhaps they are all as apathetic as the club is meant to be. You have to put that into context though most team fan forums may have 1000 members but of that how many actually post or even read the forum. Its your more die hard fans who populate forums and therefore bitch and moan more
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Post by texpef on Jan 18, 2012 11:05:25 GMT
Come now Shorty, as much as fans are disappointed as regards the league title, (and most would agree its now pretty much over bar the shouting) that is still no reason not to attempt to win and celebrate (no matter how poor a substitute they are for the league) the remaining trophies is it, even for the most dour of supporters. Afterall we watch professional sport to see our team win dont we? Otherwise you may as well watch amateurs.... No cup is not worth winning, if a trophy is on offer i personally want the panthers to win it whether it be the challenge cup or a "watered down playoffs". THIS DOES NOT DETRACT FROM THE DISAPPOINTMENT OF YET ANOTHER LEAGUE TITLE FAILURE THOUGH...
Personally as i have a season ticket i will attend all games i can get to on it but i have not attended this season games not on the season nor did i go to the semi final and to be honest i am waiting to see how the team do before buying a final ticket as well, if that makes me apathetic then so be it.
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