sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 11, 2006 14:35:24 GMT
|
|
Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,289
|
Post by Higgy on Aug 11, 2006 15:58:42 GMT
Another good move by the new team, drop that over rated Mr Beckham and bringin youth and pace with SWP and Lennon, i must say im glad ol tel is back as well
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 11, 2006 16:38:01 GMT
Another good move by the new team, drop that over rated Mr Beckham and bringin youth and pace with SWP and Lennon, i must say im glad ol tel is back as well I predict Becks will be back within months. Way too good to be left out. As for El Tel, Lord save us. Dumb and dumber.
|
|
|
Post by jaycourtney on Aug 11, 2006 17:36:17 GMT
come on, its not fair to bash el tel and SM, straight away they've not had a match yet, judge them on results and not via the current reputaion
|
|
Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,289
|
Post by Higgy on Aug 11, 2006 20:57:43 GMT
Venables used to get England playing fantastic football and he got us closest to winning a major tournament, and he's a character
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 12, 2006 12:26:26 GMT
Venables used to get England playing fantastic football and he got us closest to winning a major tournament, and he's a character Fantastic football? You mean against Holland. One match in 5. No fantastic football in the other games. Scolari said that the minimum a home team should do in the Euros is make the final. Tel won 2 games out of 5. A worse record than Sven in Germany. But hey, he did a great job for Pompey, Australia, Palace and Leeds. I'll give the new set-up a chance. Dropping Beckham was just to make a point and he'll probably be back soon enough. I understand the Terry decision but my concern there is that I can see people arguing in the future that we have better centre-halves than him (Rio, King, Dawson, Woodgate, Carra, Sol etc) and that he shouldn't be in the team. I can't see people questioning Gerrard's worthiness. It'll be the Beckham debate all over again. Eng fans pick their best player from the FWC.
|
|
andyd
Ken Westman
THE logo!
Posts: 2,719
|
Post by andyd on Aug 12, 2006 16:17:42 GMT
McLaren has dropped Beckham to make a statement, totally ridiculous IMO. I can certainly see the argument that he shouldn't be in the team but not in the SQUAD? You have to be kidding me!
Terry is definitely the best man for the job of captain...sunny do you honestly believe Terry will not be in the top two English centre backs for the next 5 years at least?
|
|
|
Post by newham on Aug 13, 2006 15:57:20 GMT
I agree Andy, he's not in the best form of his life but to say he's not in the top two English right wingers at the moment is ludicrous. McLaren has done this simply to say to make it look like he's not Sven Jnr.
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 14, 2006 11:16:51 GMT
McLaren has dropped Beckham to make a statement, totally ridiculous IMO. I can certainly see the argument that he shouldn't be in the team but not in the SQUAD? You have to be kidding me! Terry is definitely the best man for the job of captain...sunny do you honestly believe Terry will not be in the top two English centre backs for the next 5 years at least? Why not? I agree with Henry, Terry always looks far less able when he doesn't have Gallas next to him. As he did yesterday when he was partially at fault for both goals. And as he did in Germany when he wasn't convincing. Remember it was only a couple of years ago that Sol and Rio were our first-choice and Rio was tagged the best in the world. They've both been dropped since. Terry will not look as good if he loses Gallas and then Makalele. I think most people felt Rio was the better player in Germany. So straight away you can argue Terry is #2. Can't Liverpool fans argue that Carragher looked better yesterday than Terry did? And then you've got Spurs fans re King and Daws. What I'm saying is that I can see people questioning if he's one the best two centre halves in England just like Becks has been questioned. Can't see people questioning if Gerrard should be picked.
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 15, 2006 13:40:17 GMT
Gerrard shunted to the right so that we can fit in Frank the Plank, Lennon and SWP left out (thought Becks was dropped for youth and pace?) and Boro's Stuart Downing in in the side! What a surprise. Basically it is this: Becks has been dumped just for the Plank. Brave new era my r-se!
|
|
Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,289
|
Post by Higgy on Aug 15, 2006 14:00:52 GMT
Such a shame that Ashton has broken his ankle,big blow for West Ham and i was looking forward to seeing how he did in the England first team
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 15, 2006 14:11:36 GMT
Such a shame that Ashton has broken his ankle,big blow for West Ham and i was looking forward to seeing how he did in the England first team Agreed. Big blow for WHU though at least the FA will pick up his wages. Big blow for the FA!
|
|
|
Post by belak on Aug 17, 2006 7:34:22 GMT
En-Ger-Land 4 Greece 0
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 17, 2006 8:57:43 GMT
En-Ger-Land 4 Greece 0 How bad were Greece in the first half? And boy they must have been rollocked in the dressing room because they came out and played in the 2nd half. I suppose in the first half they were preparing us for Andova and in the 2nd they prepared us for Croatia!
|
|
Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
|
Post by Ian on Aug 17, 2006 9:17:31 GMT
How bad were Greece in the first half? And boy they must have been rollocked in the dressing room because they came out and played in the 2nd half. I suppose in the first half they were preparing us for Andova and in the 2nd they prepared us for Croatia! True enough, but at least we and the new manager got to look at the whole team, attack in the first 45 minutes, defence in the 2nd! Without wanting to read too much into a pre-season friendly against opposition that didn't turn up until the second half, the team looked OK to me. It made a difference having players in positions they were comfortable or at least familiar with, particularly in the midfield of course. Gerrard was always a threat on the right, Downing showed promise, Hargreaves was rightly man of the match again (although he needs to watch the silly ankle-tapping fouls - repeated offending could cost him cards in competitive fixtures with more picky refs or dramatic opponents) and even your favourite Lampard seemed more effective in his club role. Up front, Crouch worked hard. He is never going to be the most gifted of players, but you know that you will get 100% from him and he will tackle back. Defoe was a bit disappointing - most of his good touches were in areas where he couldn't do much damage and he strayed offside repeatedly when he could have been put through for scoring chances. Defence looked solid-ish (apart from corners, where we still look vulnerable). Terry put in some solid blocks and tackles, Ferdinand made good use of the space in the first half to carry the ball effectively but concentrated on his defensive duties later when needed, Neville was Neville (you know you will get steady and willing but unspectacular from him) and Cole showed good positioning and made those two great goal line clearances. In goal, I thought Kirkland did well when he came on. Admittedly, Robinson was a virtual spectator apart from a few keep-ball back passes, but he has never fully convinced me. If Kirkland can stay injury-free for a sustained period, he could challenge. All in all, a satisfying performance. Whatever we think of McLaren and Venables they have made a good start. The team worked hard, moved the ball well at times and gave 100% - ultimately that is what the England fans want to see in the first instance. Let's forget the hype about being one of the best in the world - let's have our players going out there and playing as if they care about it and proud to represent their country. That will be something to build on.
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 17, 2006 10:48:28 GMT
Generally agree Ian. I thought the Plank was largely annonymous though and you can see Gerrard won't stay out wide and will keep mobving inside. With Neville not great going forward we are going to lack width against good teams. We're playing him out-of-position and he won't play there often for Liverpool now they have Pennant, Zenden, Kewell, Gondzalez and Garcia. The Plank needs to go as he leaves Gerrard and Hargreaves to cover his backside (like Makalele and Essien have to). Defensively we were struggling second half. That's a worry. We'll have to wait for the game v Holland to properly assess the team. Yesterday was like the Jamaica game. Owen Hargreaves is a good player; eh Shin?!
|
|
Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
|
Post by Ian on Aug 17, 2006 11:36:24 GMT
Generally agree Ian. I thought the Plank was largely annonymous though and you can see Gerrard won't stay out wide and will keep mobving inside. With Neville not great going forward we are going to lack width against good teams. We're playing him out-of-position and he won't play there often for Liverpool now they have Pennant, Zenden, Kewell, Gondzalez and Garcia. The Plank needs to go as he leaves Gerrard and Hargreaves to cover his backside (like Makalele and Essien have to). Defensively we were struggling second half. That's a worry. We'll have to wait for the game v Holland to properly assess the team. Yesterday was like the Jamaica game. Owen Hargreaves is a good player; eh Shin?! Re: Gerrard and lacking width, this one wide and three narrow formation is apparently a preferred approach of both McLaren and Venables - according to Danny Mills on Five Live last night, Tel used it all the time at Leeds and McLaren adopted it at Boro. So despite him talking about using fast wide men, I reckon we will see either Downing or Lennon, but not both. I agree with you that the Gerrard and Lampard issue will not go away as Gerrard will not be happy on the right full time for club or country and if one of them has to go it must be Frank. Lennon or Wright-Phillips must surely be the long-term solution at wide right, although neither give you much defensive cover. The other question in midfield is where Joe Cole fits in when he is fit again. McLaren's side picked itself to a large extent last night due to injuries to Carrick, Cole and Ashton. It will be interesting to see what his preferred formation and line up is once everyone is available for selection again. Hopefully, unlike Eriksson, he will understand that you need to pick the best TEAM, not necessarily your best 11 players. I always thought that if we'd had three world-class goalies, Sven would have tried to play two of them in midfield or something just to get them in the side.
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 17, 2006 15:18:33 GMT
Generally agree Ian. I thought the Plank was largely annonymous though and you can see Gerrard won't stay out wide and will keep mobving inside. With Neville not great going forward we are going to lack width against good teams. We're playing him out-of-position and he won't play there often for Liverpool now they have Pennant, Zenden, Kewell, Gondzalez and Garcia. The Plank needs to go as he leaves Gerrard and Hargreaves to cover his backside (like Makalele and Essien have to). Defensively we were struggling second half. That's a worry. We'll have to wait for the game v Holland to properly assess the team. Yesterday was like the Jamaica game. Owen Hargreaves is a good player; eh Shin?! Re: Gerrard and lacking width, this one wide and three narrow formation is apparently a preferred approach of both McLaren and Venables - according to Danny Mills on Five Live last night, Tel used it all the time at Leeds and McLaren adopted it at Boro. So despite him talking about using fast wide men, I reckon we will see either Downing or Lennon, but not both. I agree with you that the Gerrard and Lampard issue will not go away as Gerrard will not be happy on the right full time for club or country and if one of them has to go it must be Frank. Lennon or Wright-Phillips must surely be the long-term solution at wide right, although neither give you much defensive cover. The other question in midfield is where Joe Cole fits in when he is fit again. McLaren's side picked itself to a large extent last night due to injuries to Carrick, Cole and Ashton. It will be interesting to see what his preferred formation and line up is once everyone is available for selection again. Hopefully, unlike Eriksson, he will understand that you need to pick the best TEAM, not necessarily your best 11 players. I always thought that if we'd had three world-class goalies, Sven would have tried to play two of them in midfield or something just to get them in the side. Considering their records at Leeds and Boro I can't say I'm not thrilled about them using the same idea. He'll pick Sven's side but with Hargreaves in for Becks in effect. It's exactly the same thing that Sven would have ended up doing. If he concentrated on picking the best team we'd have Lennon/Gerry/Hargreaves/Joe Cole as our midfield. But dare he drop the Plank? Easier to leave out Lennon/SWP. I do like that people criticise Sven for not picking the best team. How many people were calling for Hargreaves to replace Becks or Plank during the last two years???
|
|
Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,289
|
Post by Higgy on Aug 17, 2006 16:00:11 GMT
The BBC were going on about how different England were last night but to me they just looked the same coupled with a shocking Greek first half perfomance....minus Beckham
|
|
Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
|
Post by Ian on Aug 17, 2006 16:07:41 GMT
He'll pick Sven's side but with Hargreaves in for Becks in effect. It's exactly the same thing that Sven would have ended up doing. If he concentrated on picking the best team we'd have Lennon/Gerry/Hargreaves/Joe Cole as our midfield. But dare he drop the Plank? Easier to leave out Lennon/SWP. I do like that people criticise Sven for not picking the best team. How many people were calling for Hargreaves to replace Becks or Plank during the last two years??? Not specifically Hargreaves, because until the recent World Cup he had done nothing special in an England shirt, but plenty of people (experts and armchair fans) were incessantly calling for a more balanced midfield with one of Lampard and Gerrard being sacrificed for a holding player. As for Beckham, I am not convinced dropping him altogether is the right thing to do anyway. Regardless of any other considerations, with his delivery from set pieces and in open play he has scored or set up most of England's goals for the last couple of years. We have to look to the future but surely he is still worth a place in the squad? Is Jenas (for example) really and truly likely to be able to have the same influence on the outcome of an international match as Beckham can? I totally agree with your choice of our best midfield Sunbeam. But like you I do not think McLaren will end up selecting it. I do think he will use a holding player, but I can see Cole - who I really rate - missing out to Downing (who is Mc's golden boy from Boro days) and Lennon being forced out to accommodate the incompatible Gerrard and Lampard. By the way, what would you do up front?
|
|
|
Post by belak on Aug 17, 2006 16:10:08 GMT
Owen Hargreaves is a good player; eh Shin?! Never ever said Owen Hargreaves wasn't a good player, all I ever asked of him was to show the same consistency for England as he does/did in the Bundesliga. He's now started to show what he can do on a consistant basis for England.
|
|
|
Post by jaycourtney on Aug 17, 2006 21:15:52 GMT
well don't judge a book by its cover
|
|
|
Post by newham on Aug 18, 2006 17:01:37 GMT
Eh?
I hate the way a lot of people are suddenly claiming they were always behind Owen, like there was some shame behind not wanting him in the side pre WC when he was garbage and always had been for England. Thankfully, he's really kicking on now and is one of the first names on the teamsheet. Fair play to the fella.
|
|
sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by sunbeam on Aug 19, 2006 12:06:24 GMT
In response,
Ian- in the long-term it may well be Rooney and Theo. For now you've got to go with Crouch and Rooney though I'd like to see Bent get a chance.
Shin/Dan- I can't remember this but apparently OH looked good for us in Japan and may have kept his place but for an injury. He never played the anchor role badly that I can recall. He was just messed around by Sven. Hopefully he'll solve that problemn for us.
I expect SM to try out the diamond formation with either Gerrard or the Plank at the front of it. He won't want to drop the Plank.
|
|
DoUrden
Ken Westman
Squash Them Sheep
Posts: 2,645
|
Post by DoUrden on Aug 19, 2006 20:39:12 GMT
Did anyone catch the attendance for the Greece game in the end? I've got a feeling that it was more down to the FA website than anything else that it was a low turn out.
I tried on 4 seperate occasions to try and get some tickets but every time the website kept saying "none available in that area", or "can't forfill your request for this game". So I assumed until i heard in the paper on the day of the game that it had sold out.
Managed to get myself some for the first Euro Qualifier tho!
|
|