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Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Oct 18, 2019 19:18:03 GMT
The one i was most disappointed with, although definitely nowhere near the worst....Scott Allison.
Absolutely incredible at Steelers. Just pretty decent at Panthers.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Oct 5, 2019 21:13:25 GMT
First time I've been this season and I wasn't expecting much - but didn't expect it to be anywhere near as bad as that. No size or physical presence, no speed, no goalscoring threat and no talent. Not a great combination.
Herr a league above everyone else, but he's nowhere near a Brown or Bellamy...and they were nowhere near our "go to guys" in their seasons.
And for people wanting fans to vote with their feet - it looks like they already are - that was as empty and as flat as I've ever seen a Steelers game.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Sept 30, 2019 19:51:42 GMT
Slightly off topic but does anybody know if you actually have to print tickets at home like it suggests or if you can just show them and scan them on your phone? Seems strange if you’d have to print them in this day and age!
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Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Aug 9, 2019 19:42:13 GMT
Okay so the squad is complete{?) and many on here are suggesting we will not finish higher than 4th. You read it here first, we will finish in the top 3; our best finish for years! I'm liking the change of direction, the team ethos, the speed, the skillset, the "I've something to prove CV's" (rather than my CV says I'm good, so I need to prove nothing!) I do believe this team will provide the fans with fantastic entertainment each and every week - if that is the case you really can't ask for more!! Bring it on. You seem to have a very "glass half full" view of this season's team, but you still only predict us finishing as high as last season, which pretty much everyone agrees was a very poor team and year. People's mindset seems to have got to the point where it's "Oh as long as we compete and entertain and try hard then that's a successful season". Why is it like that?? No disrespect to them, but that's what Manchester and Dundee fans should be thinking before a season... Steelers fans aren't happy with anything other than a league Championship. Is that the difference??
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Aug 5, 2019 20:51:47 GMT
You say these resources but are they really as well off as some think. Not convinced here. Its quite ironic we now play Blaze on boxing day as they are what Panthers match up top now on and off the ice! ok Pidge fag packet maths 18 quid cheapest tickets x average 5500 = 9900 per game x 32 games at present without semi etc = £316800 (very much a very low estimate) Sponsorship - highest ever in the league bearing in mind GMB was throwing in several millions over 3 years so conversatively £1m per year bearing in mind we still have GMB plus all the rest (conservative imho half combined main team = £500,000) We have shirt sales plus auctions (each auction is worth around £20K x 3 per season plus each shirt sales "is it £80 per shirt now or more? think anecdotal evidence looking round the arena 500 shirts (again a low estimate imho) = £40K so total of £100K Each individual sponsor of players another almost £1000 per player 20 players = £20K Assorted other merchandise £10-15K Plus bunch of other miscellaneous stuff such as quiz nights and panthers beer etc... couldn't possibly guess what that makes Against this there is the housing costs/wages/car (although think they are sponsored too)/Gym (again sponsored)and cost of NIC rental which I have been informed is between 15-20K per event (being the incumbent host I suspect the 15) Wage bill for middle of the road ECHL players in America is $450 so equate that to pounds x 20 = £9K x 32 games = £288K + £480K rental = £768,000 Even if the remaining costs such as back room staff, housing etc are a QUARTER OF A MILLION pounds this leaves a WHOPPING almost 1 to 2 MILLION pounds profit not bad for a minority sport in a beer league is it.... For christs sake it wouldn't break the bank to EVERY year sign a team such as that in Belfast or Cardiff...or god forbid even one to beat them... I think the big problem with this is....you've missed a zero off the ticket sales revenue. It's actually 5,500*18 which is £99,000 per game, not £9,900 - which is £3.2 MILLION a season!
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Aug 4, 2019 21:02:22 GMT
Panthers budget is simply that Black is a tightwad and won’t spend anywhere near what he could. Just imagine....one Panthers home game probably grosses around £80k and even IF every main player was on £1k a week which they aren’t,that would only be £20k a week in player wages. That leaves a heck of a sizeable chunk left to pay the other costs. I distinctly remember Black saying that the way to run a financially sustainable Elite League franchise is that the playing budget is set entirely by season ticket revenue - so you start the season with a squad paid for just by that. And he said you have to be cautious and presume you'll get no further revenue after season ticket sales until you've actually got it, and then at Christmas if you've got some extra money you can perhaps spend a bit more if needed. When you think about it, that perfectly explains how Panthers teams are run, and why we generally do better in the play offs than the league. I'd love to believe all the positive thoughts about this season's squad but, unless Wallace is the best coach in UK hockey history, then Panthers aren't going to be troubling the trophy challengers this season unless big changes are made. If we even get close then the approach of Cardiff, Belfast and Sheffield spending big and winning the league all the time will have been shown up as a pointless fluke and that Caps, Dundee and Fife were doing it right all along but just got unlucky or had the wrong coaches.....
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Jim Keyes
Posts: 966
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Post by dp on Jul 21, 2019 20:54:58 GMT
I agree you can generally tell who will be 1st and 2nd before a puck is even dropped but who realistically expects us to win the league first season after all the change we’ve had this off season. I personally hope to see a competitive team this season who still have a chance at winning the league come the end of the season and the only way you’ll be able to tell if we will is by seeing the team play first What??? - wait until we actually see the team before passing judgement? Absolute heresy! Didn't you know that volume of rhetoric, blind prejudice and stubborn adherence to dogma are far suprior tools when judging the worth of a team than direct observation, calm & logical analysis and an open mind? Can you name the last team to win the EIHL who was made up of what people assumed were "cheaper" signings? When was the last time a team shocked everyone to win the league?
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Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Jul 21, 2019 20:32:40 GMT
As nice as it is to be all romantic about it and say "these kids could be brilliant", "we could've found a gem" etc etc the fact is that in the 20 years I've been watching you can always pick the top two league positions in late August based on the quality and experience of the roster - particularly the Brits. And the teams who win the league are ALWAYS the ones who have players who look like they will have been expensive. There's a very good reason why Fife, Caps, MK, Dundee etc never challenge for the league, even when the whole system was rigged to make it easier for them. Look at Sheffield last season - the more players they announced, the more everyone was thinking "They look understrength this season" - and so it proved. I've just got absolutely no idea where Panthers' money is going this season. I'd have thought the arena were paying for the scoreboard, so it can't be that. Where has the Lee money gone? Where has the Farmer money gone? Actually, even the Clarke money given he was never replaced. It's certainly not gone on expensive imports with impressive CVs. The cynical side of me thinks that Doucet has been told by Black that his job is to maximise profit - keep costs down as much as possible and revenue as high as possible. He knows that the quality of the team makes no impact on revenue, so just go cheap.... Spot on. The fact is, the teams with the biggest CVs on the roster tend to rise to the top. Certainly close together in the top 2 or 3. Every club has examples of big CV players failing but id bet the % of those that are percieved to fail at Panthers in far greater than those at Sheffield, Cardiff & Belfast. The amount of players that come here and under perform only points to one thing in my view, and thats the culture at the club. No way do so many players and teams fail here and it all be about them. Here's hoping the new structure changes that, but as you say, our roster looks behind others so far. I'll reserve total judgement until all players are announced though because you just never know. I also wont be writing the team off before we are a few months in at least. The fact is, it usually is fairly easy to see who will be at the top before a puck is dropped(aside Panthers). Completely agree. The thing with sport is that every professional is pretty decent. Every player ever signed in the Elite league is better and more talented than the average man on the street. But the difference which makes players able to play at a higher level is things like natural strength, athleticism, mentality etc. Yes the odd one will slip through and perform in the Elite league better than they'd be expected to but, taking it to extremes, if you signed 100 Messi and Ronaldo they'd be better than 100 Ameobi and Lolley - and that doesn't mean Lolley and Ameobi aren't very talented, it's just the best are that bit better...and that's what you have to pay for and that's what wins championships.
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Jim Keyes
Posts: 966
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Post by dp on Jul 21, 2019 19:37:00 GMT
Ifs and buts and maybes again.. hes 26 and still hasn't turned pro until now ummm ... so if Panthers brought in Bowen byram.. (who's yet to play pro hockey) who's 18 he wouldn't be as highly regarded as Forsberg (both d men) I’ve no idea who Byram is Pidge and I don’t want to. But rather than signing college kids and average looking “wait and see” guys I’d rather they went out and spent some of the massive profits on some proven quality. Jeez with what we’ve got so far I reckon Wallace still thinks he’s recruiting for Milton Keynes !!!! 🙄 As nice as it is to be all romantic about it and say "these kids could be brilliant", "we could've found a gem" etc etc the fact is that in the 20 years I've been watching you can always pick the top two league positions in late August based on the quality and experience of the roster - particularly the Brits. And the teams who win the league are ALWAYS the ones who have players who look like they will have been expensive. There's a very good reason why Fife, Caps, MK, Dundee etc never challenge for the league, even when the whole system was rigged to make it easier for them. Look at Sheffield last season - the more players they announced, the more everyone was thinking "They look understrength this season" - and so it proved. I've just got absolutely no idea where Panthers' money is going this season. I'd have thought the arena were paying for the scoreboard, so it can't be that. Where has the Lee money gone? Where has the Farmer money gone? Actually, even the Clarke money given he was never replaced. It's certainly not gone on expensive imports with impressive CVs. The cynical side of me thinks that Doucet has been told by Black that his job is to maximise profit - keep costs down as much as possible and revenue as high as possible. He knows that the quality of the team makes no impact on revenue, so just go cheap....
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Jul 19, 2018 19:48:58 GMT
I'm worried how one-dimensional and short of goals we are.
Don't understand the comparisons with 2002/3 either. We had a few players who could fight that year, but they also had decent scoring stats.
Nieckar was the main one you'd consider a "goon", and he still got 0.61 PPG in ECHL, which is pretty good for an EIHL forward - better than Perlini for example. Same with Clarke - 0.61 overall in the ECHL and a point per game season in the ECHL a couple of years before we signed him.
And Allison was tough, but primarily a goalscorer - signed for us after a point a game season for Steelers. Dody Wood signed from Ayr after 31 points in 42 games and 0.5 PPG in the AHL etc etc.
And that was the "goons".
That team also had Jinman, Cadotte, Purves and Hadden in the forwards.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Jun 3, 2018 16:33:07 GMT
I quite like this signing, mainly because it's a very un-Panthers-like signing. Firstly, it's been a while since we signed a proper power forward, and, secondly, we never sign from other EIHL clubs - and I've always thought it's because they're too expensive if they're any good.
My concern is that there are probably better out there in the world doing this role - but then at least we know what we're getting here.
Interesting signing and one I wasn't expecting at all.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 29, 2018 19:18:42 GMT
Someone mentioned Brendan on Twitter yesterday, sounded like because he's represented Canada at youth levels he'd not qualify for us without going through the residency requirements for a change. Don't know how correct that is. It's a discussion point, but in reality, unless they change the coach, we're not going to be flooded with dual nats now. He's shown no sign of doing that. He'd have to come to the UK and play here for 4 years before he could play for GB and not play outside of the UK or play for Canada in that 4 years too. If he hadn't played for Canada previously he'd only require 2 years in the UK. There could be some rule somewhere which says it only applies to senior internationals but if there is I don't think anyone has found it so 4 years in the UK before Brendan could play for us. Is that right? Even though he was born here? I know he'd be classed as an import in the Elite league because he played junior hockey in Canada, but surely if you're born in a country you can play for their national team without having to qualify? Doesn't Mosey qualify purely because his parents were born here or something? I know in football you qualify for a national team if you or your parents were born there - and I can't see why it'd be different in hockey. I'm not saying you're wrong, I have no idea - I'm just asking.
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Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 29, 2018 17:40:43 GMT
It's a balance. We don't have many dual nationals now - Perlini doesn't count as an import and is UK trained so I don't count him as dual national - and I think it's a good thing.
What makes me laugh though is all these people who talk about how strong German hockey is based on their Olympic performance. They have more dual nationals than GB played in this tournament - and Italy's best player was born in London...
I can see Brendan Perlini playing for us next year - and he was born in Guildford, so why wouldn't you want him to play?
What I feel quite strongly about though is that this team are obviously punching above their weight because of how close a knit group they are and how much they care. I can see us doing respectfully next year purely because we'll throw our face in front of pucks because it means everything to them, whereas a player coming off a tough NHL season who doesn't really care that much about the World Championships won't.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 19, 2018 20:38:12 GMT
I'd say EIHL was closer to DEL than DEL2 - as shown by EIHL results against DEL teams in the CHL. The German players are generally better than the Brits, but we have more imports and the imports in the EIHL are similar resume to those in the DEL. The budgets are a different matter - the DEL is lightyears ahead. But then value for money wise.... Yes i was just looking at that too. Krefeld from the DEL came over last year and got beat in both games against Panthers and Cardiff. Panthers beat Hamburg,I think Clan ran Ingoldsat close or won a game too. Undoubtedly the DEL is better all round than the EIHL but I’ve always thought the German leagues are a bit over rated. I definitely think they over pay. If you look at the imports, both the EIHL and the DEL have a few players who played a few NHL but never quite made it, a few who played quite a lot of AHL, and then it goes all the way down to people who were not exactly tearing it up in the ECHL, but turn out alright. Krefeld for example. Their top scoring NA import was a d man who only ever got to NCAA level in NA. Never played a pro game. If he signed in the UK, you'd be very surprised if it were for anybody other than Caps. Their highest scoring NA forward played 6 games in the AHL, scoring 2 points. And that was it. Then Berlin...top scorer an American who never played NHL but played 482 AHL games...but only got 0.46 PPG. Can't be bothered to look through any more players, but they're the top scorers, and none of them are players you'd be thinking would tear the league up if they signed in the EIHL.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 19, 2018 19:55:32 GMT
How does DEL2 stack up against EIHL? Its pretty much equal. I'd say EIHL was closer to DEL than DEL2 - as shown by EIHL results against DEL teams in the CHL. The German players are generally better than the Brits, but we have more imports and the imports in the EIHL are similar resume to those in the DEL. The budgets are a different matter - the DEL is lightyears ahead. But then value for money wise....
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 18, 2018 19:25:48 GMT
We won't get another goalie in and to be honest I'm questioning if we should. Gospel is our long term option. However another goalie would restrict his ice time. Only way we should sign another goalie is if garnett leaves. I don't think we should either. There's no point having Gospel if we're going with two imports again - and I certainly don't think we should get rid of Gospel. Garnett SHOULD be the best nettie in the league, and one of the jobs the new coach has got is to make sure he performs like it. That means getting the d in front of him the right style of player and playing the right system to get the best out of him.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 17, 2018 16:55:25 GMT
Does anybody know if he has been signed on a multi-year contract? Not revealed as of yet. I interpreted it as one year initially going purely on the phrase that “he’s been appointed for the coming campaign”. Would be strange wording if it’s a multi year deal.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 8, 2018 19:45:07 GMT
Been told our new coach is Rich Chernomaz, current coach oh the hungarian national team. 2 DEL championships in the early 2000s, but has been in the 2nd and 3rd tier in Germany the last 5 years. Not particularly enamoured with the suggestion. Why not? Black recruiting a new to the league coach from Germany worked out really well at Braehead. Who's to say we can't do just as well as Braehead? They didn't come bottom of their conference like we did.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Mar 28, 2018 17:41:12 GMT
I have a few thoughts on this.
One is that the club playing the “we’ve listened, we’ve put the Nottingham back in Nottingham Panthers”. This has got nothing to do with them listening to fans and everything to do with the fact the sponsors happen to be called the Nottingham Building Society. Are you telling me that if Nike had offered £10m a year to sponsor us they’d have turned it down because they’d want us to be known as The Nike Panthers? It’s not a problem but don’t pretend it’s because you listened to the fans.
Secondly, the GMB deal was already pretty big. A bigger deal unfortunately just means more money in Black’s pocket. For the fans it makes no difference whatsoever (note season ticket prices going up for a start). This is purely a corporate announcement which just goes to show how out of touch the club are that they chose to big it up and announce it at a fans event. Personally, I couldn’t care less who the sponsor is.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Mar 27, 2018 17:13:39 GMT
So we could be The Nottingham Nottingham Panthers? That'll please the "Nottingham on the shirt" brigade at least The Nottingham BS Panthers?
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Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Mar 21, 2018 20:10:56 GMT
Are you watching Mr Black....fan representatives... Unfortunately you know that if the Panthers were to follow suit it'd be a couple of the brown-nosing cretins in those spots. The type who'd trip over themselves to get to the opening of a Panthers-branded envelope (good tickets still available). As for this from Edinburgh, without new money coming into the team, I fear this is just rearranging the decks chairs as the Caps slip beneath the Water of Leith. Press release says this: "The Edinburgh Capitals Board have committed to a significant level of investment and are ready to begin implementing a robust business plan and stronger roster for next season." I'm assuming investment means financial. But I've seen all this before from Caps so the proof is going to be in the pudding.
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Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Mar 10, 2018 22:13:23 GMT
ONE page on this thread shows the interest. This says it all. Pre-game, mid-game and post-game, and still on the first page. I remember when there'd be 5 pages of hype just pre-game! And it's not just the old "social media has replaced forums", because nobody's interested on social media either. It's really odd. I'd be really worried for Panthers future liquidity given how many people seem to be losing interest....but then it was a sell out yet again. I think it's just a sign that there are 7,000 people in the building who really don't care at all about the result. How sustainable and long term is that as a business model though?
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Feb 26, 2018 21:52:50 GMT
You can now get a kids season ticket at Forest for a tenner - a season ticket! With adults' season tickets a similar amount to Panthers, but a kid's season ticket about the same price as a single Panthers game, do you think Panthers will have to respond? If Forest start to do well I think Black/GM's apathy and arrogance could be under pressure....
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Feb 14, 2018 18:07:18 GMT
Yes pretty sure the timing of this announcement was at least partly influenced by tomorrow being transfer deadline day.
Maybe Corey would make a good new GM for us. Let’s face it, pretty much anyone would be better than what we’ve currently got. And Corey is a hockey person which would make a nice change.
Obviously Corey has won a lot of silverware but we don’t know how many league titles a different coach would’ve won. Give any half decent coach the team which won the grand slam and they couldn’t fail to win something. And I say that as someone who has generally been a fan of Corey.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Feb 14, 2018 13:00:32 GMT
I think this is the right decision although I’ve always wondered how good a coach Corey could be at a well run club where players want to play.
When you hear the restrictions Corey has to work under because of Black and GM, it’s no wonder we often struggle.
As I say, the right decision, but I’d have swapped this in a heartbeat for an announcement that GM had left or Black was selling up.
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