Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Oct 25, 2006 7:12:11 GMT
Tambo, I understand what your saying but he had released the puck and must have seen Simoes coming so therefore he should have braced himself IMO, the fact of the matter is he got hit and he wasnt ready, no matter what the situation you cant have that happening to yourself!
As for Shmyr and Gomez, fine, take it into the next game I guess theres no need trying to pump your bench up with 2 secs left of OT, but if they really wanted to go they could have done
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Helen B
Terry Kurtenbach
you know how much I love you guys
Posts: 2,841
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Post by Helen B on Oct 25, 2006 8:11:46 GMT
Robbed we was! That puck is clearly over the line but time to put this one to bed and move on. Go Panthers Come over to Steeltalk the debate is still going in full swing, of whether it was a goal or not, hehe.
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Post by chris22 on Oct 25, 2006 9:02:16 GMT
It's not as clear cut as I'd imagined.
Chris
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 25, 2006 9:22:36 GMT
It's not as clear cut as I'd imagined. I was about to say the same! Looks as though it did make it across the line, especially when it was on edge, but we're talking millimetres....... The goal judge seemed convinced it crossed the line but it's that hoary old chestnut again... "if in the opinion of the referee...." Having seen that replay, it's easier to understand why the referee decided not to award a goal, as there was going to be an element of doubt in his mind.......... even though he was wrong! (Probably.... ;D)
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Post by Nemesis on Oct 25, 2006 9:44:53 GMT
Remember also that goal judges will often react instinctively to what they think will happen.
I have wattched and re-watched it a dozen times, I have took screen shots using pro video editing software and zoomed in; it is far from conclusive either way. I really wouldn't like to put any money on it, the only way this could be solved would be running it through the new hawkeye software that sky use, enabling you to view from any angle, the best being from above.
At the end of the day if the ref loses site of the puck, the game stops dead at that point; and if he is in any doubt whatsoever, he cannot award a goal. We can watch and watch that clip, Bonni got one shot, at full speed!
Tough call.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 25, 2006 10:12:33 GMT
Remember also that goal judges will often react instinctively to what they think will happen. I have wattched and re-watched it a dozen times, I have took screen shots using pro video editing software and zoomed in; it is far from conclusive either way. I really wouldn't like to put any money on it, the only way this could be solved would be running it through the new hawkeye software that sky use, enabling you to view from any angle, the best being from above. At the end of the day if the ref loses site of the puck, the game stops dead at that point; and if he is in any doubt whatsoever, he cannot award a goal. We can watch and watch that clip, Bonni got one shot, at full speed! Tough call. All valid points (except not so sure about the game stopping dead when the ref loses site of the puck). But if you've watched it a dozen times with pro video editing software and you're still not sure, then how the hell was he so certain it wasn't a goal that he wasn't even prepared to consult the other officials?
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Post by texpef on Oct 25, 2006 11:00:41 GMT
spoken like a true goalie nem...!!!
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 25, 2006 11:03:14 GMT
how the hell was he so certain it wasn't a goal that he wasn't even prepared to consult the other officials? "If in the opinion of the referee"....... The opinion of the referee is the only one that matters at the end of the day, be it right or wrong. Presumably Nigel thought there was an element of doubt in his own mind therefore tho opinions of anyone else didn't come into the equation. Some referees (Andy Carson for example) seem quite willing to consult with the other officials before making a decision - even altering their original decision after consultation. Others, for whatever reason, seem loathed to take advice from anyone else, and just make their own decision. A question of personality I guess.
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Doughnut
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mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 25, 2006 11:07:20 GMT
If there's an element of doubt in his mind, that's precisely when and why the opinions of others should come into the equation and that's why he should consult the other officials. I know what he did was within the rules, but that doesn't make it right. I think he's basically just an idiot
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 25, 2006 11:22:22 GMT
I think he's basically just an idiot Don't think there'll be a rush of people trying to shout you down...... ;D
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 25, 2006 11:24:00 GMT
Not posted on this yet, basically wanted to see what everyone else was saying first, and to see if anyone else noticed something me and starr noticed....
The OT goal... no idea, not gonna pretend i saw it or that i have it on good authority that it went in, i havent got a clue. [rose tinted]IT WAS A GOAL[/rose tinted]. he he
However, 10 mins before the OT goal/no goal.... something happened that alot of people missed, but a few of us at the back picked it up immediatly. I have no idea who the Pheonix player was, but one of them had a one on one with Evan, took a shot which appeared to hit the post and bounce back out.... I am 110% positive that the puck DID NOT hit the post, that puck went in the net and out again, lucky for us it was such a belter of a shot, everyone missed it! From the angle the shot was taken, there is no way in the world that if that puck had hit the post it would have come back out in the way it did. The angle would have caused it to shot out either into the goal or towards the boards, but it didnt, it came almost directly back to the player. And from where we were sat, you could see the clear net behind even, and it went in the net. I sat there stunned that no one had seen it, but after talking to starr we both agreed it went it.
I guess its a case of 2 wrongs making a right. At the end of the day, it doesnt matter what goals went in and what goals didnt, its to late now, and if anyone thinks complaining to the league will result in a turn around of the score, dream on!!!!! We lost, pure and simple, and i can asure you we will lose again, its a part of what happens through the season.... get over it.
As for checks legal or not??? Again, its what happens. Players will get injured, doesnt matter if he was 10 feet from the boards of 10 mm from the boards, that hit could still have hit him in a way that would have caused him an injury..... its a contact sport and its what happens. One thing i will say.... look at the play offs when Sjorgren got injured from a perfectly legal check.... thats ice hockey for you.
Game was ok, not great, but at least competative and showed that any team can beat another on any given day..... this season has started out exciting, and i can see it getting more exciting as it rolls on....
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 25, 2006 11:55:04 GMT
From the angle the shot was taken, there is no way in the world that if that puck had hit the post it would have come back out in the way it did. The angle would have caused it to shot out either into the goal or towards the boards, but it didnt, it came almost directly back to the player. You've awakened my engineer's curiosity with this Keefe! ;D Just trying to picture where the shot came in from - a one-on-one so presumably out in front, possibly just to one side of the goal? The post is a vertical cylinder in effect so the puck striking it at almost any angle will result in the puck ricocheting away to one side or the other of the post. If the puck happens to traveling on a line passing through the exact centerer of the tube forming the goal post, then effectively it hits a flat surface rather than a curved one and it would rebound more or less straight back to the shooter. Sorry - I'll go and find something more useful to do! ;D
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 25, 2006 12:02:18 GMT
MP.... Thats not sad mate, thats what ive been doing for the last 3 days.... I havent come to any other conclusion other than that my first thought that the puck had gone in the net is solid. I cant honestly work out how it could have hit the post, and i wish it was possible to draw a picture....
_____ -------------------------------! . !------------------------------ . . . . . . . . P
Doesnt really show it that well, but that how the puck went.... in a fashion
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 25, 2006 12:02:38 GMT
Ok that didnt work one bit!!!!! lol
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 25, 2006 12:13:29 GMT
Ok that didnt work one bit!!!!! lol LoL! My drawings look like that too! One of the anoying things about ProBoards - it doesn't display characters equispaced like good old DOS does.
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Tambo
Jade Galbraith
Ayr Scottish Eagles gone but not forgotten
Posts: 159
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Post by Tambo on Oct 25, 2006 12:16:05 GMT
Keefe, firstly an apology for the rant. red mist and all that. Tried to find you after the game but you had gone. Glad you posted the other incident, discussed it with Teddy. I had the same sort of view as you as I was directly opposite you. I jumped up thinking it was a goal, but sat down sheepishly when nobody else did See you in a few weeks Tambo
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 25, 2006 12:27:32 GMT
Tambo, no worries for the rant mate... would be hypocritical for me to me annoyed as i would be the same. Amazing what rose tinted specs can do, he he. Plus i had years of it from paul and jan, scuff, and many others when we had baz. Dont let the fat fool you, its actually just thick skin!
Hockey is hockey mate, and the fact that no-one will ever see bad in their team will never change! Its what makes our sport so special.
I wont lie to you, i was highly amused that no-one recognised the goal, as would anyone else be... but just took me by suprise that no-one seemed to register it! I guess its just the way the cookie crumbles.
By the way, a little rant of my own... i cant wait for you to get your own rink, really am not a big fan of ice sheffield sometimes. Cant fault them for what they have done to help you guys out, and i think the management of ice sheffield are to be congratulated for that. Its just the stewards have no experiance of managing a big game, and as such go into over kill mode sometimes... for example, i understand that no matter where you go in this country, the stewards will always tell you to find you seat. But many a time, if we are at the back, its nice to stand up, not least for the fact you can shout alot louder stood up. But for some reason at ice sheffield you are not allowed to let your backside leave the seat at any point.... little things like that to me seem a little over the top. Oh well.
But undoubtably i will see you at the next match, and i have no doubt that again im sure we will find something to disagree on... again, thats what i love about being a fan of british ice hockey.
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Tambo
Jade Galbraith
Ayr Scottish Eagles gone but not forgotten
Posts: 159
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Post by Tambo on Oct 25, 2006 12:47:34 GMT
As you say, Ice Sheffield management have done a great job for us and were extremely helpful on Sunday. I spoke to the rink manager and the licence policy is that it is a fully seated arena. No exceptions. Couldn't even let my drummers stand at the corner of the seats. I too like the back row so I can stand up without bothering anybody else. But thems the rules and we just have to live with them
Tambo
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Post by heja on Oct 25, 2006 13:07:48 GMT
yeah but you can tell when its not a goal as they will pretty much turn it off before it was turned on.
but the goal judge kept it on for quite a while. which points to him being pretty sure it was a goal, epecially since it is a push button in sheffield meaning to keep it on you have to keep your finger pressed down on it
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Post by charlish2099 on Oct 25, 2006 14:27:15 GMT
the fact he was so sure that he went to find Mike Eliss tell him is proof enough this guy was certain it was a goal, unusual behavoiur if someones not sure. Good call on the other incident keefe, i never noticed that.
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Post by texpef on Oct 25, 2006 15:39:49 GMT
all academic regardless of how much us fans bleat as its the refs decision as to whether it is a goal whether we like it or not... and i dont..but we may as well drop it it aint gunna change. to say they balance out at the end of the season... well in my experience they dont but hey ho..
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 25, 2006 15:53:13 GMT
but it did balance out tex... they had a goal (IMO) that went in but wasnt given!
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Doughnut
Forum Admin
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 25, 2006 15:57:05 GMT
but it did balance out tex... they had a goal (IMO) that went in but wasnt given! Either way I still get to think Boniface is an idiot
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Post by charlish2099 on Oct 25, 2006 16:05:37 GMT
i second that although i think with time he could get better, seen a couple of his games where i have been quite impressed.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 25, 2006 16:15:28 GMT
I don't think Boniface is an idiot.... technically, I think he is (or, rather, could be) one of the best refs in the country. I think the problem is his ego. He won't consult with the other officials, he is more sensitive to backchat from players than any other stripey in the country, he can't resist 'playing up' to the crowd... to me, it looks like he wants to be the centre of attention, and that is exactly what a referee SHOULDN'T be, yes? If he could get over that, I think he'd be at the top. As it is... Carson is more consistent (and communicates better with the players), Cloutman is more professional... OK, I'm running out of nice things to say about the other stripeys, but you know what I mean!
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