Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 25, 2008 8:20:10 GMT
the point you should be looking at is had hamilton been in a ferrari would there have been a different outcome, No it's not and no there wouldn't (IMO) we had years of schuey bending the rules and driving like a banger car racer and now when maclaren have an ace car and a good young driver they try to manipulate F1 yet again, yeah, like Schumacher never got penalised? Anyone would think Hamilton was as innocent as can be, he's one of the most aggressive drivers in F1 at the moment, his attitude on the track is more like Schumacher's than any other driver out there (not that I think there's anything wrong with that I hasten to add!). he took the chicane to avoid another car has that conveniently been overlooked as well. Overlooked?! That was the cause of all this in the first place. Had he backed off and stayed on the track none of this would have happened. (And while I'm still undecided, I suspect he wouldn't have been able to pass Kimi at the next corner either!) I hope both ferrari's engines blow up in singapore! Yeah, that would make for an interesting end to the season wouldn't it?
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Post by rangers on Sept 25, 2008 8:58:33 GMT
Hamilton's appeal has rightly been thrown out. It was thrown out because it is impossible to appeal against drive through penalties (which the time penalty basically was). I'll continue this here rather than the Talk Hockey board as this is probably where it belongs ... Do you think that it's right that it's impossible to appeal this penalty? I can see the argument for not allowing the appeal of a drive through (that would get really messy) but when the penalty is applied as a time penalty after the race has finished (regardless of if it's in place of a drive through/stop-go whatever) it would be very easy and clean to allow the appeal and remove the time penalty. Bearing in mind the reason the time penalty was brought in (after Michael finished the race serving a stop go at Silverstone) then it should face the same rules as stop go/drive through. Myabe 25secs for a drive through is harsh, but other than that... the reason he had to avoid a car at the chicane was because Lewis had missed the braking point. if he hit that he wouldnt have had to avoid the car. it really is that simple. Maybe if Lewis didn't break the rules, he would not get punished. I can only think of the Massa incident where Ferrari have bbroken the rules - and even that was touch and go. What rules did Schuey break that he wasn't peonalised for? He was thrown out of the title for his move on JV. The rules of F1 were changed after the Silverstone thing (as mentioned) and what else in a ferrari? cant think of anything where is the evidence that that the FIA is bias towards Ferrari? The spygate thing was McLaren breaking the rules AGAIN. it seems it is Mclaren who are breaking the rules, and because it is Ferrari who have been at the top, their biggest rivals over the last decade or so, people claim ferrari bias. Maybe if the others stopped breaking the rules, Ferrari wouldn't have to appeal, and go through the courts. People go on about team orders, but mcalren did it, and have done since at least the 80s. Plus its a team sport - I'm a Rubens fan(have been since Senna died), but Ferrari did what was right in Austria. Oddly no-one went after Hill, when he punted michael out at least twice(silverstone and Monza). Or DC after the amount of collisions he has had this year. What people have against michael, other than the fact he is german, i dunno, especially when the same people proclaim senna to be the greatest - when he did almost exactly the same as michael. It just shows a lot of british F1 fans have no clue about what they are talking about
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 25, 2008 9:20:49 GMT
Bearing in mind the reason the time penalty was brought in (after Michael finished the race serving a stop go at Silverstone) then it should face the same rules as stop go/drive through. Regardless of why they were brought in, I still think it would be more fair to allow time penalties to be appealed. Myabe 25secs for a drive through is harsh, but other than that... I'd say 25 secs for a drive through is a little harsh, if they did a drive through at Spa it'd cost them about 20 secs (in the dry). Incidentally, a 20 second penalty would have put Hamilton in 2nd which I think would have been a fairer result. the reason he had to avoid a car at the chicane was because Lewis had missed the braking point. if he hit that he wouldnt have had to avoid the car. it really is that simple. I didn't think he'd missed a braking point. I thought he had to avoid Kimi 'cos Kimi squeezed him (as he's entitled to do) and Lewis ran out of track. Then instead of backing off and falling in behind Kimi, he cut the chicane. I'm guessing the rest of your post wasn't directed at me. In any case I can't find fault with it.
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Post by rangers on Sept 25, 2008 9:42:14 GMT
I think I agree on all but the appealing process - Surely the appeal process should be the same should the penalty be called at the start, middle or end of race - it's the same offence, so the same rules should apply.
A 20 second penalty for a drive through sounds about right - and 2nd place for lewis would have been about fair as well, gven he 'made' one place from the offence
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 25, 2008 11:23:29 GMT
I think I agree on all but the appealing process - Surely the appeal process should be the same should the penalty be called at the start, middle or end of race - it's the same offence, so the same rules should apply. I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. It may be the same offence, but it's not the same penalty. A time penalty is not the same as a drive through penalty. It's a lot easier and more straightforward to reverse a time penalty that was only applied after the race finished. I don't think a drive through should be appealed as it'd be impractical but that's not the case with a time penalty.
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oldman
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Post by oldman on Sept 25, 2008 18:57:49 GMT
Have to say when esteemed drivers like lauda say the whole thing was a farce i tend to believe that, Kimi squeezed him or tried to run him out of track because it was obvious Lewis had the quicker car at that point in the race, so as there was no room or time to back off Lewis cut the chicane, the rule states that he should not seek to gain an advantage from that and should give up his place which he did Kimi crossed the line ahead of Lewis and Lewis then moved into his slipstream and passed him, something he would have done anyway, so the only thing Lewis may have done wrong was to seek to do it straight away, in the end he would have passed Kimi anyway he was just a little eager in my view. To put him down to third was just a joke in my eyes! He is by far the best wet weather driver and would have taken the race no matter what!
As for wanting the ferrari's to blow their engines that was tongue in cheek in the what goes around comes around style!
I didnt dislike schuey because he was German just he made F1 boring for a while, not his fault had the best car and he was the best driver but also the most aggressive driver who sought to gain advantage by any means!
I think personally Senna was more of a sportsman and not so self centered, and he had quality cars and drivers against him so personally i cannot agree that he was like schuey!
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 26, 2008 8:45:46 GMT
... Lewis then moved into his slipstream and passed him, something he would have done anyway, so the only thing Lewis may have done wrong was to seek to do it straight away ... Exactly, and that's what he was punished for. I think personally Senna was more of a sportsman and not so self centered, and he had quality cars and drivers against him so personally i cannot agree that he was like schuey! Senna not so self centered? lol I've heard it all now. ;D
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Post by rangers on Sept 26, 2008 20:34:22 GMT
I'm a senna fan and i agree with that!
Schuey? made f1 boring? nope. Only to people bothered about number one position. F1 is as interesting as it ever has been.
I will now also do my MotoGP rant (the same people who critisise F1 for being dull as schuey won) everything, hero-worship Rossi for doing the same thing..)
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p14
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Post by p14 on Sept 27, 2008 11:43:22 GMT
Moto-GP and Formula 1 are completely different imo ranger,
Schuey didn't make F1 boring because he won alot of races and championships, F1 sometimes makes itself boring with the lack of overtaking, relying on tactical pit-stops to gain postional advantages (in most cases) Schumacher was one of the greatest drivers and obviously his talent is not in question.
Moto-GP has alot more overtaking, is in my opinion alot more entertaining, Yes Rossi has won alot of races and world titles throughout his career, they haven't been lead from the front and win titles the majority of the time. He hasn't dominated the series for years, yet rides consistantly good. Without stoners mistakes the title would be going down to the wire! Did you see laguna seca? awesome race
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Post by rangers on Sept 27, 2008 12:05:16 GMT
I enjoy MotoGP - the Laguna race was fantastic some of the body checks would not have looked out of place on a hockey rink, and you just have to love the 'screw- but I sometimes get fed up with the hype motogp gets - it is different, yet people seem obsessed with comparing it to F1, with everyone saying 'there are more overtaking moves on one corner in MotoGP than in the entire history of F1'. a) overtaking in MotoGP is dwindling fast from when i started watching it - and there is no focus on the rest of the field, other than the Rossi-stoner-pedrosa battle(and No52, obviously). I want to know what happend to the whole field, not just the winners. b)there is more overtaking year on year in F1 than in the past - the 'golden age' of F1 was not full of overtaking, no matter what rose tinted specs people look at. F1 is not about that instant hit, that a shorter MotoGP, Touring Car or junior catagory race is - F1 is the long game, looking a race ahead at times. People handily forget that when the comparisons come in. I think the genius of Michael was his strategy with Ross - I'm thinking of races in Japan, Hungry, Belgium, which were awesome drives - far better than any overtake he could have pulled off on the track.
f1 has it's problems, but it's not as bad as fairweather fans make out.
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Wirral Panther
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Post by Wirral Panther on Sept 28, 2008 20:57:04 GMT
Hi, what do you all make of the first F1 night race then? it was full of action thats for sure.
That cockerel up at Massa`s pit stop might finally convince Ferrari to ditch this stupid traffic light system they are using and go back to using the simple lollipop. The Ferrari pit mechanics are taking their lives in their own hands at the moment, working for that team.
I thought it was great to see a williams car back at the front again, its been too long.
I am also happy to see Alonso winning again, i believe James Alan when he said that Alonso is the best driver in F1 "pound for pound".
Also did you catch the glimpse of Jarno Trulli in the Toyota pit after he retired, he looked absolutley knackerd and so physically drained.
All in all, a great event and the track looked awesome with the way the lighting was. I can see more of these night racers in the future at other tracks in the far east.
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Post by rangers on Sept 29, 2008 6:40:07 GMT
I would say Ferrari will ditch the lights system, but its worth noting DC did almost exactly the same with the lolipop system - considoring any lights are just human error, there is no real benefit to change, in all honesty - it's just because its different that the problem comes. Again Massa gets all the luck - and again, all of it bad - he must be the unluckiest title challenger ever - last year he was far and away the best of the 4, but just had no luck in the slightest, and it is happening again.
I thought the race was really good - it looked spectacular under lights, and there was enough action - though I think Reno's team tactics need a lot to be desired (Nelson, that spanish chap needs a safety car right now, could you smash your car up again right now - you've been doing it all year so we know you can...) I'm not a Lewis fan, but don't like Alonso - there are much more deserving drivers out there who should have that drive. It was a good drive, but he lucked into it a bit
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 29, 2008 9:12:42 GMT
I think Ferrari need to re-think the lights system a bit and make a few changes, but not necessarily ditch it. There have been many similar things happen with the lollipop system in the past and such things still happen.
As for the night race, I thought the place looked good and it didn't seem to effect things too much on track. The only real benefit to it IMO though is to enable us Euros to watch the Asian races during the day. I wouldn't say it would be worth having a night race just for the sake of it.
I really think they need to stop penalising people for using the pitlane under the safety car, though I guess the stewards at that race agree which is why they spent so long (5 laps!!) "investigating" Rosberg so that he could build up a decent gap. I never really saw the point in that rule in the first place.
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Post by rangers on Sept 29, 2008 10:57:46 GMT
Autosport reporting that BBC line up will be Jonathon Legard and Martin Brundle in the commentary box, and Jake Humphry and David Coulthard presenting.
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oldman
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Post by oldman on Sept 30, 2008 15:01:47 GMT
Autosport reporting that BBC line up will be Jonathon Legard and Martin Brundle in the commentary box, and Jake Humphry and David Coulthard presenting. no cameo role for murray walker then !
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Sept 30, 2008 16:28:58 GMT
Autosport reporting that BBC line up will be Jonathon Legard and Martin Brundle in the commentary box, and Jake Humphry and David Coulthard presenting. Is there gonna be a Childrens' F1 programme or something? How does that guy get a job, a proper dalendless shid. BBC should get Steve Ryder back, and then he can do the golf as well to replace the ever useless Lineker.
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Post by rangers on Oct 1, 2008 8:56:13 GMT
I was surprised by the choice - the MotoGP coverage the BBC do is very good, with the presenters actually treating the fans as knowledgeable, but I can't see Jake working - ok he's done Olympics and the SuperBowl, but I suspect he would be like Ted Kravitz - not very knowledgeable, and very patronising. Still we will see...
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Post by rangers on Oct 7, 2008 13:59:18 GMT
Canada dropped from next years calander - ok the track has its problems, but it always produces one of the best races of the year. A real loss to F1 - especially with the link to Gilles Villeneuve.
Also Ferrari to go back to the lolipop system in the pits this weekend
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Wirral Panther
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Post by Wirral Panther on Oct 8, 2008 22:18:56 GMT
Yeah, i hear the reason to drop the canadien race next year is purely commercial. Very sad, especially since the race sells out every year.
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Post by rangers on Oct 12, 2008 18:33:18 GMT
Well another incredible race in the best season for years. I think, on reflection, all the penalties were fair enough. Great drive from Felipe - rubbished the people who said he cant come through the field, but where was Lewis - seemed to me that he just thought the world was ganging up on him again so he gave in.
Makes the last 2 very interesting - cant wait! Go FELIPE!
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 13, 2008 8:37:57 GMT
Gutted. I forgot to record the re-run yesterday afternoon then the video recorder packed in instead of recording the highlights last night!
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Post by grumpyminer on Oct 13, 2008 10:59:22 GMT
You can watch the re-run of the highlights on Monday at 6pm on ITV 4.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 13, 2008 12:18:59 GMT
You can watch the re-run of the highlights on Monday at 6pm on ITV 4. Aha! Cheers for that. Now it's just a case of having a fight with a 2 year old to get the F1 instead of CBeebies ;D
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Post by Fraggle on Oct 13, 2008 16:40:12 GMT
Bribery is your best bet there Doughnut! Def a race worth watching - as Rangers said, best for spectators for ages. V pleased to see there's no James Allen muppeting about in the new BBC F1 team - not sure who the guy is you're all non too impressed with though so am off to check him out. Edited to add - have 'generic search engine'd him - oh no, not that annoying twerp! Why him? You may as well just have some berk in a mascot suit just standing there looking gormless for all the help he will be. He will be the new James Allen bain of my life. Except worse - he's a Norwich fan!!! Despair!
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Oct 13, 2008 18:05:23 GMT
V pleased to see there's no James Allen muppeting about in the new BBC F1 team - not sure who the guy is you're all non too impressed with though so am off to check him out. Edited to add - have 'generic search engine'd him - oh no, not that annoying twerp! Why him? You may as well just have some berk in a mascot suit just standing there looking gormless for all the help he will be. He will be the new James Allen bain of my life. Except worse - he's a Norwich fan!!! Despair! I've heard Gordon the Gopher for pit lane reporter, and Edd the Duck offering in depth analysis after the race...
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