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Post by Luca Toni on Jun 17, 2007 10:04:01 GMT
Any more F1 fans out there? Anyone had their interest in F1 peaked since Lewis Hamilton came on the scene? Got to say I was an F1 fan before, have been for 13 years since I was up all night one time back in '94 with sickness. So happened the Australian GP was on TV (the one where Schumacher hit Damon Hill putting him out of the race and giving Schumi his first world title). Got to say though that F1 is all the more interesting when a Brit has a shot at the world title and you know when you watch that a Brit might win the race (and no, it's not likely to be you Jense!). Looking forward to today's race at Indy and expecting Alonso to do a banzai move at the first turn again since he knows he has to get away first. Also looking forward to July 22 at the Nürburgring and September 16 in Spa (Belgium) cos I'll be there. Come on Lewis!!
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Post by maxfax on Jun 17, 2007 11:05:53 GMT
I lost my brief interest in F1 after Nigel Mansell called it a day. However, it's nice to see a Brit dominate a sport, & it looks like Lewis will be doing that for MANY a year to come...& breaking a few F1 records along the way no doubt.
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Post by sawchuk on Jun 19, 2007 8:28:19 GMT
I've been an F1 fan for a long time and while it's great Hamilton has got off to a fantastic start, I'm cheering for Raikkonen.
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Post by grumpyminer on Jun 19, 2007 10:28:13 GMT
There has never been a rookie driver like Hamilton. Not even Schumacher (Michael) had this impact. That has made F1 more interesting this season. The fact that he is an Englishman is what makes it really special. Personally I don't really follow a particular team but I do support the English/British drivers (I drive a Honda myself so I always hope they -well Jensen- can do well, nothing against Rubens either). I think it is fantastic that for the last 2 GP's we have only had to listen to our own National Anthem. ;D ;D
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Post by LUFC on Jul 8, 2007 10:04:12 GMT
I've been an F1 fan for a long time and while it's great Hamilton has got off to a fantastic start, I'm cheering for Raikkonen. Same here Hamilton has had it all spoon fed to him, given a car that any other f1 driver could put on the podeum or very close. To me at the moment it's more the machine and team around him than the driver. Lets see if he can do it when traction control is removed and the car doesnt "compensate" for his mistakes in braking etc (traction control auto slows you and things when you make mistakes or hit curbs hard/wrong etc etc). Oh and when they have a real clutch pedal like they are looking at going back too. If he can do that next season with these changes i might warm to him. Until then he's an arrogant son of a gun. Also the way the team have done 50/50 with the world title holder is so rediculous. The world champ moved to them to get the number 1 team spot and get the car and full backing and have hamilton progress next to him. Last time this happened was Prost and Cen and that all went so wrong, i can see Alonso leaving them if this continues.
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 9, 2007 9:19:40 GMT
I've been an F1 fan for a long time and while it's great Hamilton has got off to a fantastic start, I'm cheering for Raikkonen. Same here Hamilton has had it all spoon fed to him, given a car that any other f1 driver could put on the podeum or very close. To me at the moment it's more the machine and team around him than the driver. Lets see if he can do it when traction control is removed and the car doesnt "compensate" for his mistakes in braking etc (traction control auto slows you and things when you make mistakes or hit curbs hard/wrong etc etc). Oh and when they have a real clutch pedal like they are looking at going back too. If he can do that next season with these changes i might warm to him. Until then he's an arrogant son of a gun. Also the way the team have done 50/50 with the world title holder is so rediculous. The world champ moved to them to get the number 1 team spot and get the car and full backing and have hamilton progress next to him. Last time this happened was Prost and Cen and that all went so wrong, i can see Alonso leaving them if this continues. Waaaay too harsh! I don't think there's a single thing in that post that I agree with. McLaren have always (rightly or wrongly) given their drivers equal status until one of them was out of the running for the championship. It's up to the driver to prove himself over his team mate. I'd be surprised if anyone (especially Alonso) expected it to be any other way at McLaren this year. F1 may have several driver aids at the moment, but it's not like Lewis is the only one with those aids is it?! He's been on the podium for 9/9 races and leads his current double world title holding team-mate by 12 points. That takes a lot of skill and hard work however good the car is. As for him being arrogant, that's gotta be a joke right? He's probably one of the least arrogant F1 drivers I've seen in a long time. Especially when compared to the likes of Jenson Button. You say you're cheering for Kimi and he's probably the most arrogant, least likable F1 driver in the sport at the moment - and I'm saying that as a Ferrari fan!
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 9, 2007 11:14:23 GMT
Anyone had their interest in F1 peaked since Lewis Hamilton came on the scene? I'm surprised he's German enough for you
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Post by Fraggle on Jul 9, 2007 13:12:11 GMT
Anyone had their interest in F1 peaked since Lewis Hamilton came on the scene? Hell no! If anything I'm LESS interested - I'm so sick of hearing about him! Now don't get me wrong - he's had an amazing start ot his F1 career, amazing, and of course, it's great to see a Brit doing well, but you have to bear in mind that he was picked up by Ron Dennis at the age of 10 and has been nurtured and groomed for this since then. People keep talking about how his F1 career has started so much better than say Shumi's or Senna's for example - well of course it has - they had to start small and work their way up to the top teams, the top cars - not just get dropped into one of the best driver spots in the whole F1 world! Would Lewis be on the podium in a Spyker? I'm not knocking Lewis' achievements, I don't begrudge him any of his success and I'm not doubting that he clearly is a talented driver, I'm just sick of hearing about it!
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Post by sawchuk on Jul 9, 2007 13:24:38 GMT
Anyone had their interest in F1 peaked since Lewis Hamilton came on the scene? Hell no! If anything I'm LESS interested - I'm so sick of hearing about him! Now don't get me wrong - he's had an amazing start ot his F1 career, amazing, and of course, it's great to see a Brit doing well, but you have to bear in mind that he was picked up by Ron Dennis at the age of 10 and has been nurtured and groomed for this since then. People keep talking about how his F1 career has started so much better than say Shumi's or Senna's for example - well of course it has - they had to start small and work their way up to the top teams, the top cars - not just get dropped into one of the best driver spots in the whole F1 world! Would Lewis be on the podium in a Spyker? I'm not knocking Lewis' achievements, I don't begrudge him any of his success and I'm not doubting that he clearly is a talented driver, I'm just sick of hearing about it! Twas only to be expected though, although it's odd that no one really mentions Button any longer, yet he was dubbed the new " golden boy" of F1 before Hamilton. Meh who cares anyway, Kimi is on a roll.
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 9, 2007 14:14:16 GMT
People keep talking about how his F1 career has started so much better than say Shumi's or Senna's for example - well of course it has - they had to start small and work their way up to the top teams, the top cars - not just get dropped into one of the best driver spots in the whole F1 world! Would Lewis be on the podium in a Spyker? The thing is Lewis has earned that spot in a top car through a lot of hard work and talent. Yes Ron Dennis spotted him early and helped support and train him up as well as he could, but he's still in that McLaren on merit. He wouldn't be there if he wasn't good enough, Ron Dennis is no mug. I hope the way Ron brought Lewis up through motor-sport is a sign of things to come. It's been happening in other sports for a long time, it's about time F1 team bosses realised that to get the best talent they need to nurture it from an early age. Especially in an expensive sport like motor-racing, if the teams at the top of the sport don't support the grass roots, they'll continue having to pick their drivers from a select few whose parents could afford to buy their motor racing careers. He may well be in one of the best 4 cars on the grid but he's still managed to beat 3 of the best drivers in the World who are also sitting in cars just as good if not better than his. I'm not knocking Lewis' achievements, I don't begrudge him any of his success and I'm not doubting that he clearly is a talented driver, I'm just sick of hearing about it! I guess that's fair enough. I think you might just have to get used to hearing about it though 'cos I think he'll be around for a while. I can see BBC Sports Personality of the year going his way too. If he wins the championship he's a shoe in for it, but even if he doesn't I can't think of much other competition for the BBC award this year.
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 9, 2007 14:28:12 GMT
it's odd that no one really mentions Button any longer, yet he was dubbed the new " golden boy" of F1 before Hamilton. I never really thought that much of Button. He's a pretty good driver, I think he'd have as good a chance as most if he was in a top team. He's often been outpaced by team mates though, and they've not exactly been great drivers themselves. He's also been poorly advised, he's made some bad decisions at crucial times in his career - making the jump to F1 too soon was one of them, he should've done a year or two in F3000. Meh who cares anyway, Kimi is on a roll. It does appear that way. I hope he scores enough points to help Ferrari take the constructors title. I'm still clinging on to the false hope that Massa will beat him though 'cos I can't stand Kimi. I think I'd rather see Lewis or Alonso win the driver's title than Kimi.
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Post by Luca Toni on Jul 12, 2007 21:05:19 GMT
Anyone had their interest in F1 peaked since Lewis Hamilton came on the scene? I'm surprised he's German enough for you He wants to win enough. That'll do. And what's all this twaddle people are talking about "anybody could do what he is doing cos he's in the best car"? Alonso (that's the world champion) is in THE SAME CAR!!! Right now he's 12 points back. Go get a decent argument chaps. As for Button, pretty boy living the racing driver lifestyle like Eddie Irvine before him. Nine races and nine podiums. It will stop of course but both ferraris and alonso have had the chance to do the same and haven't. Now got to run along. I'm at the Nürburgring one week from today.
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Post by sawchuk on Jul 13, 2007 14:03:10 GMT
Isn't the McLaren the same car as the Ferrari?
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 13, 2007 14:18:50 GMT
Isn't the McLaren the same car as the Ferrari? Neah, that's next year's McLaren ... or Honda depending on how much you read between the lines
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Post by sawchuk on Jul 13, 2007 14:22:06 GMT
Isn't the McLaren the same car as the Ferrari? Neah, that's next year's McLaren ... or Honda depending on how much you read between the lines ;D
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Jul 13, 2007 21:02:01 GMT
its Massa all the way for me
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 15, 2007 12:28:41 GMT
its Massa all the way for me It would be my preference too, but I don't see it as a likely outcome. I think now that Kimi has had a bit more time to get used to the new team, car and tyres he'll start to dominate Massa. It wouldn't surprise me to see something similar happen at McLaren either, it will be interesting to see how Lewis handles it.
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Post by Luca Toni on Jul 17, 2007 4:34:57 GMT
Agree that Kimi is on a good run now in what looks like the faster car (which makes you wonder if McLaren are incompetent if they are suüpposed to have stolen and taken advantage of Ferrari secrets). However, as we know, the faster car doesn't always win. Lewis has the lead in the championship and its up to the others (who I hope take points off each other) to catch him (assuming Max Mosley doesn't do it for them). On which subject I'll add a bit more. If the FIA take away the driver's points the championship is a waste of time from thereon in. We know that a Ferrari will win. Now the question is, are the FIA that stupid? I can see Mclaren getting their points taken away, but the drivers?
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 17, 2007 9:25:29 GMT
Even if McLaren did steel Ferrari secrets it'd take them more than a couple of months to take any significant advantage from them.
Maybe I've missed something, but who has said the drivers are likely to lose points? I may be wrong but I actually think this FIA investigation will put McLaren in the clear anyway.
I'm no fan of his, but I think I believe Ron Dennis on this one. I don't think the McLaren team have had anything to do with this leaked information. From what I understand of the situation it looks to me as though Coughlan and Stepney have shared information with a view to joining the same team (Honda?) next year and planned to use the information to their advantage at that time. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point Stepney had/has a similar file of information on McLaren - he just hid it better than Coughlan did.
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Post by Luca Toni on Jul 17, 2007 16:56:23 GMT
Hope you are right about Mclaren although the latest "talk" is saying that Coughlan has coughed to showing the plans to other people at McLaren in his sworn affadavit to be considered by the FIA next week, who exactly I don't know though I'm sure it wasn't Ron Dennis. I don't think that the FIA will take points from the drivers even though they haven't ruled out that this could happen. Four drivers with a legitimate chance of the title is something they haven't had for years. I have a feeling that McLaren's team points are going byebye however.
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 26, 2007 14:11:57 GMT
FIA decides not to penalise McLarenLooks like common sense has prevailed. I doubt either of them will get work in F1 again anyway but I hope they throw the book at Coughlan and Stepney.
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Post by Luca Toni on Jul 26, 2007 19:30:07 GMT
Sense indeed. Ferrari can bluster (and they will) but its their incompetence that means they leak like a sieve. They are not so water tight on or off the track without Schumi and Ross Brawn.
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 26, 2007 19:44:50 GMT
Sense indeed. Ferrari can bluster (and they will) but its their incompetence that means they leak like a sieve. They are not so water tight on or off the track without Schumi and Ross Brawn. Firstly I've not seen any reports of Ferrari accusing McLaren of any wrong doing over this. Secondly, how can you say this is down to incompetence? One of their employees stitched them up. If a Ferrari employee stitching them up makes Ferrari incompetent then surely a McLaren employee being involved without them knowing makes McLaren incompetent too right? I see you've shifted your allegiance now it looks more likely that Alonso will beat Lewis to the title
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Post by Luca Toni on Jul 26, 2007 20:03:22 GMT
Sense indeed. Ferrari can bluster (and they will) but its their incompetence that means they leak like a sieve. They are not so water tight on or off the track without Schumi and Ross Brawn. Firstly I've not seen any reports of Ferrari accusing McLaren of any wrong doing over this. Secondly, how can you say this is down to incompetence? One of their employees stitched them up. If a Ferrari employee stitching them up makes Ferrari incompetent then surely a McLaren employee being involved without them knowing makes McLaren incompetent too right? I see you've shifted your allegiance now it looks more likely that Alonso will beat Lewis to the title First thing, I always thought Alonso would win the title and I still do now. He has experience Lewis will get. Second, of course I'd support Lewis over Alonso (on an individual basis) because Lewis is British. But that doesn't mean I can't support Alonso too. I support the McLaren team. My airhorn was going as much as the other Mercedes fans' last Sunday when he swept past Massa. Third, if you haven't seen the reports of what Ferrari are accusing McLaren of you haven't done much reading. Even checking out the BBC Sport website gives you some of this. Planet F1 more so. Ferrari's whole stance is that McLaren are only winning because they've been cheating over several months (as if Ferrari are the only team who could possibly win in the first place). Next, that an employee "stitched up" Ferrari is conjecture. It has, as far as I know, not yet been clearly shown who did what when before a public body such as a court. Your point about McLaren is I suppose fair but then we both know that no one can watch their employees 24/7. If, in fact, the McLaren chap was doing this in his own time how can McLaren be blamed for not knowing? The Ferrari chap, on the other hand, was clearly being allowed to wander off with stuff. Slight difference.
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Post by Doughnut on Jul 27, 2007 10:52:27 GMT
Now I've had chance to read up on comments made after the hearing, I see what you're getting at re: Ferrari's accusations.
From what I've gathered, Ferrari's main complaint is that McLaren have been found guilty of breaching a rule and haven't been punished for it. They have been found guilty of being "in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code" but haven't been punished because there's no proof that the information has been used. The thing is the rules don't say anything about the need to prove that it's been used, just that it was possessed. Ferraris point is that not punishing a breach of the rule just because there's no proof that someone benefited from said breach is ridiculous and sets a very bad precedent. I can see their point.
Another point that Ferrari seem to be making is that "The difference between the two teams is so close that it is likely that McLaren's superior number of points is a consequence of its chief designer having the Ferrari documents <snip> being in possession of the Ferrari documents has given McLaren an unfair advantage over Ferrari." I don't think they're suggesting that McLaren would be incapable of leading without that information, what they're saying is that the lead may not exist and probably wouldn't be as big. If you look at this objectively, I think you'll admit it is kind of hard to imagine that a team wouldn't benefit from their chief designer being in possession of this much and this kind of information from their closest competitor for a period of several months.
Put it this way: if say 2 years ago Rory Byrne was found to have been in possession of similar documents from McLaren, would you (or indeed most of the F1 public) have been so quick to assume Ferrari weren't in the know and didn't benefit? Would you have been happy with a similar result?
The WMSC seem to have been/are between a rock and a hard place on this one. It could make the sport look very bad if they heavily punish McLaren for what seems to have been something one of their employees did in private. On the other hand it could also make the sport look bad if they don't punish a clear breach of the rules. It does look as though they've tried to sweep this under the carpet, their decision seems to have been based on what the public reaction would be rather than on what rules have been proved to have been broken.
It'll be interesting to see what the final outcome is once the dust has settled. I'd be surprised if McLaren are punished, the WMSC aren't going to go back on their decision without new evidence, and even then it'd have to be pretty damning evidence. Who knows what might come out of the court cases here and in Italy though.
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