Optic
Corey Neilson
Posts: 2,384
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Post by Optic on Jul 19, 2005 15:49:40 GMT
No. I don't really have many beliefs to be honest same for me
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Post by mortimershoals on Jul 19, 2005 16:32:01 GMT
It's been interesting to read some of the comments on here from the well thought out to the trite "I don't believe in god because bad things happen" that gets trotted out whenever someone questions God's existence. I don't know whether's a god or not & I'm not entirely sure I want to. I don't want to suddenly find out after living my life they way I thought best that I've been completely wrong & end up damned for all eternity.
The only bit I truly believe in is to do unto others as you would have do unto you. If we all followed that then this place would be one heck of a better place.
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 20, 2005 1:39:21 GMT
I absolutely do, I don't get how the whole universe could just have been a coincidence So do you believe that there really is a big blue sky above us? I know I would've if science hadn't explained it. Let's be honest, all the major religions date back to times when most people were thick. So they believed basic theories. How else could you explain the world to them? Do you think they'd have grasped evolution? Or the big bang? Of course not. Fortunately there are far more intelligent people around today who are answering the questions. We've still got a long way to go but at least we can move on from all that mythology of yesteryear. Sadly a lot of people need their God. For without it they have fear. Many an atheist has found God on his deathbed, too frightened to accept the thought of eternal nothingness after death. God is a crutch, a security blanket. 'Have no fear, everything will be ok bacause God will protect us'. If there is no God then what is to stop people from doing wrong? They have nothing to fear but getting caught by the law. Prison doesn't worry people like eternity in Hell does. So people choose to believe in God. It's the safe, easy option for many. And good luck to them. Whatever ices your cake. But it's worth remembering that the Old Testament states that Adam and Eve lived only a few thousand years ago. That the earth hasn't been around for long. No wonder the dinosaurs that lived millions of years ago became extinct. According to the Bible they never existed!
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Post by girdeaux on Jul 20, 2005 7:07:43 GMT
The choice of religion & the belief in God, or other deities is ultimately a choice for the individual.
I find the argument/stance of atheists very dismissive, "God doesn't exist!" they shout but have no proof of such a statement. Does God exist? I have no idea, but I have faith & that is what it ultimately boils down too.
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Post by deutscherhockey on Jul 20, 2005 8:51:18 GMT
I absolutely do, I don't get how the whole universe could just have been a coincidence So do you believe that there really is a big blue sky above us? I know I would've if science hadn't explained it. Let's be honest, all the major religions date back to times when most people were thick. So they believed basic theories. How else could you explain the world to them? Do you think they'd have grasped evolution? Or the big bang? Of course not. Fortunately there are far more intelligent people around today who are answering the questions. We've still got a long way to go but at least we can move on from all that mythology of yesteryear. Sadly a lot of people need their God. For without it they have fear. Many an atheist has found God on his deathbed, too frightened to accept the thought of eternal nothingness after death. God is a crutch, a security blanket. 'Have no fear, everything will be ok bacause God will protect us'. If there is no God then what is to stop people from doing wrong? They have nothing to fear but getting caught by the law. Prison doesn't worry people like eternity in Hell does. So people choose to believe in God. It's the safe, easy option for many. And good luck to them. Whatever ices your cake. But it's worth remembering that the Old Testament states that Adam and Eve lived only a few thousand years ago. That the earth hasn't been around for long. No wonder the dinosaurs that lived millions of years ago became extinct. According to the Bible they never existed! Sunbeam one of the reasons I started this thread was because I have an innate interest (and that's all) in the views of people in this area. They are inherently interesting to me usually. (Also I have degrees in biblical studies and wanted to see what common folk beliefs would get trotted out, not in a nasty way but just to see what was out there.) So I hope you'll excuse me if I don't let your post pass by unquestioned. To start at the end: I can't let your chronology pass by unchallenged. Where does it say that Adam and Eve lived only a few thousand years ago? This is at best an assumption taken from reading the books with an exterior chronology (yours!) added to it. No, the Bible never mentions dinosaurs and that undoubtedly because the people who wrote it had never heard of them. But, I submit, neither are they interested in that kind of (chronological and scientific) story nor is that the point. I would, further, submit that the Bible is to be read far more literarily (as opposed to literally) than you have given it credit for. In this you read like an evangelical Christian but with disbelief instead of belief. As to how you started your post, I can see what you are saying but its a bit of a basic way to put it (and I don't think it accounts for the beliefs either come to think of it). There are hundreds of millions of religious believers today, many of whom will believe that a god of some description created the world - and I'm only speaking about the developed world post Darwin and at the same time as people like Hawking are alive (and before its simplified it can't be simplified! There will be many grades and mixtures of belief in that number. Some will try to put evolution and belief in God together as opposed to making them adversaries, for example). Does "thickness" explain these beliefs as well? On the one hand you seem to disdain the intelligence of such people whilst on the other being free enough to tolerate there existence ("whatever ices your cake"). Finally, the "security blanket" issue. Whilst it can't be doubted that some (even many) have done death bed conversions could it not be also true that some have thought that God would protect them because, to their eyes, he has? At least that's what the Bible (as even simply a story book) would lead us to believe.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Jul 20, 2005 9:46:32 GMT
Deutcher, my turn to be curious.
So far, you've not given your own answer to the question. Having taken an interest in and studied religious matters, do you believe in a God/gods?
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Post by deutscherhockey on Jul 20, 2005 10:16:35 GMT
Well if you want me to be all confessional MP then its your own fault and you'll get what you deserve! First off, I don't wish to confuse religion, belief in god, beliefs, religious matters, biblical studies, etc, as if they were all the same thing: they aren't. Religion can be something as vague as a feeling or as boring as mere weekly church attendance and isn't the same as having a particular belief and biblical studies can be, and is, carried on in non-religious contexts. As a matter of fact I studied biblical studies (and later Philosophy) at the University of Sheffield for too many years to count and have academic qualifications to show for it. This has no connection to religious beleifs or anything else of any kind. It does suggest, to anticipate latter comments, that I am not "thick" to use Sunbeam's term. A degree in biblical studies includes learning to read in either Greek or Hebrew (and in my case both) which is not something a thick person could do. Nuff said on that.
So, I answered simple yes on my own poll. I gave that answer because, to regurgitate another poster, I don't believe in accidents. As Sunbeam suggests, this may have something to do with security but I don't think that just because people are atheists that means they don't need security. Such a thing is a common human need and others just find the same need answered elsewhere (some no doubt even in ice hockey). Like you I was introduced to Christian beliefs at an earlier stage in life and, like you, I have pretty much gone beyond that now, except in a different way. I do not attend a church, though in the past I did, but I do not believe that attendance or club membership of any particular kind guarantees anything. My specialisation in my now past academic study was the historical Jesus and, if anything, I have an interest in understanding and appreciating that historical character as well as more broadly philosophical questions related to "wisdom" (e.g. the ancient and long running question "What is leading a good life?"). If you wanted me to say what the relationship was between this god I believed in and myself (something that is a consequence of believing in a god by the way), I could only use the language that many others across many centuries and cultures have used, e.g. father/son, creator/created type stuff. Believing in a god, at least, to my way of thinking, if you are going to follow it fully through, is neither simple nor easy and has a lot of consequences! Well, you did ask MP!
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 20, 2005 11:42:19 GMT
So do you believe that there really is a big blue sky above us? I know I would've if science hadn't explained it. Let's be honest, all the major religions date back to times when most people were thick. So they believed basic theories. How else could you explain the world to them? Do you think they'd have grasped evolution? Or the big bang? Of course not. Fortunately there are far more intelligent people around today who are answering the questions. We've still got a long way to go but at least we can move on from all that mythology of yesteryear. Sadly a lot of people need their God. For without it they have fear. Many an atheist has found God on his deathbed, too frightened to accept the thought of eternal nothingness after death. God is a crutch, a security blanket. 'Have no fear, everything will be ok bacause God will protect us'. If there is no God then what is to stop people from doing wrong? They have nothing to fear but getting caught by the law. Prison doesn't worry people like eternity in Hell does. So people choose to believe in God. It's the safe, easy option for many. And good luck to them. Whatever ices your cake. But it's worth remembering that the Old Testament states that Adam and Eve lived only a few thousand years ago. That the earth hasn't been around for long. No wonder the dinosaurs that lived millions of years ago became extinct. According to the Bible they never existed! Sunbeam one of the reasons I started this thread was because I have an innate interest (and that's all) in the views of people in this area. They are inherently interesting to me usually. (Also I have degrees in biblical studies and wanted to see what common folk beliefs would get trotted out, not in a nasty way but just to see what was out there.) So I hope you'll excuse me if I don't let your post pass by unquestioned. To start at the end: I can't let your chronology pass by unchallenged. Where does it say that Adam and Eve lived only a few thousand years ago? This is at best an assumption taken from reading the books with an exterior chronology (yours!) added to it. No, the Bible never mentions dinosaurs and that undoubtedly because the people who wrote it had never heard of them. But, I submit, neither are they interested in that kind of (chronological and scientific) story nor is that the point. I would, further, submit that the Bible is to be read far more literarily (as opposed to literally) than you have given it credit for. In this you read like an evangelical Christian but with disbelief instead of belief. Crikey! I'm not familiar enough with the many stories that make up the bible to recall where it says it. All I know is that (as I understand it) the Bible states/suggests that the Earth was created thousands rather than millions of years ago. As for how I read any holy book of any religion; I take it all with a shovel of salt like I would Harry Potter. I take them no more or less seriously than I do the tales of Troy, Zeus and Atlantis. As to how you started your post, I can see what you are saying but its a bit of a basic way to put it (and I don't think it accounts for the beliefs either come to think of it). There are hundreds of millions of religious believers today, many of whom will believe that a god of some description created the world - and I'm only speaking about the developed world post Darwin and at the same time as people like Hawking are alive (and before its simplified it can't be simplified! There will be many grades and mixtures of belief in that number. Some will try to put evolution and belief in God together as opposed to making them adversaries, for example). Does "thickness" explain these beliefs as well? On the one hand you seem to disdain the intelligence of such people whilst on the other being free enough to tolerate there existence ("whatever ices your cake"). I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. Suffice to say that I know if I was alive a few hundred years ago I would have believed in Creationism. It would be the only logical answer. So I understand why people in ancient times swallowed the various religious explanations. Just like when I was a kid I thought thunder was God's belly rumbling and rain was God having a shower. Yes there are many intelligent people who believe in a higher being. Whether that is due to faith or some other reason I don't know. I don't have disdain for the intrelligence of people who believe. I actually quite envy their beliefs. I wish I had something that I could think would make everything all right. Sadly I see no reason to believe other than for wishful thinking. Finally, the "security blanket" issue. Whilst it can't be doubted that some (even many) have done death bed conversions could it not be also true that some have thought that God would protect them because, to their eyes, he has? At least that's what the Bible (as even simply a story book) would lead us to believe. Atheists are renound for being afraid of death. Philip Larkin was never informed by his family that he was dying for this very reason. Most atheists can't comprehend eternal nothingness. Far nicer to believe in resurrection, heaven or karma. I don't mean to disrespect anybody who believes in a higher being. I do however have a great problem with the fact that religions are taught as facts rather than theories. That the Church and State are not seperated. Britain should have no organised religion and should be a secular socitety. If people then choose to worship their God or Gods than that is their right.
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 20, 2005 12:00:21 GMT
So, I answered simple yes on my own poll. I gave that answer because, to regurgitate another poster, I don't believe in accidents. As Sunbeam suggests, this may have something to do with security but I don't think that just because people are atheists that means they don't need security. Such a thing is a common human need and others just find the same need answered elsewhere (some no doubt even in ice hockey). Naturally atheists need security. People should read Maslow if they wish to gain more understanding of man's needs. It was when I studied Maslow that I gained the idea that man created God because man needs God. Like you I was introduced to Christian beliefs at an earlier stage in life and, like you, I have pretty much gone beyond that now, except in a different way. I do not attend a church, though in the past I did, but I do not believe that attendance or club membership of any particular kind guarantees anything. My specialisation in my now past academic study was the historical Jesus and, if anything, I have an interest in understanding and appreciating that historical character as well as more broadly philosophical questions related to "wisdom" (e.g. the ancient and long running question "What is leading a good life?"). If you wanted me to say what the relationship was between this god I believed in and myself (something that is a consequence of believing in a god by the way), I could only use the language that many others across many centuries and cultures have used, e.g. father/son, creator/created type stuff. Believing in a god, at least, to my way of thinking, if you are going to follow it fully through, is neither simple nor easy and has a lot of consequences! Well, you did ask MP! So you believe that Jesus actually lived? And that Jesus was Christ? Basically you believe in the whole Passion of the Christ story from the nativity to the crucifixion and resurrection? Though I assume you don't believe Jesus was white. I guess Mel Gibson didn't think American audiences would like seeing Jesus look more like Osama bin Laden than John Lennon!
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Post by deutscherhockey on Jul 20, 2005 12:58:30 GMT
Yes I believe that Jesus "actually lived". Do you not? I thought that belief was widespread and general, dare I say an established fact? If he didn't there is no such thing as history because no opponents of the first Christians claimed that Jesus was a fabrication and never existed. (Try reading the Jewish historian and Roman sympathizer Jospehus on this or the Roman historians Tacitus or Suetionius. All have disdain for Christianity, are writing within 100 years of Jesus' death and none make the claim he never existed. I am well aware, as one with higher degrees in the subject should be expected to be, of those who argue for his non-existence but my answer to them is that there is better evidence for his existence than for pretty much anyone before him and for most after. So, as opposed to being hyper-critical about it, I choose to believe that if the evidence suggests someone lived then they did.
As to what you refer to as the "Passion of the Christ" story, I believe that is a story and not a record of events. (The film is, of course, even more a story and not least because of the "white" Jesus. But why did Jesus "look like Osama Bin Laden"? NO ONE knows what he looked like. Funny we all make assumptions though!) Even so, it is not uninstructive. I do not find truth simply in a list of apparent facts. Some of the best lessons I've ever learned came from a story. Anyway, meaning is more than facts. A fact is nothing without a context and that is usually a story or scene to set them in. (Scientific stories about the creation of the universe spring to mind! I learn from them as well.) To that extent I'm intrigued that because I mention an interest in Jesus (an academic one at that) you make the connection with belieiving he is "the messiah". That is certainly an option some Jewish people historically took (for "messiah" is a purely Jewish possibility). I don't think I'd want to comment on that though because there is a whole thoroughly Jewish story behind that term and how it came to be used and what it means. So-called "Messianic Jews" today are still waiting for the Messiah in fact.
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 20, 2005 17:49:02 GMT
Yes I believe that Jesus "actually lived". Do you not? I thought that belief was widespread and general, dare I say an established fact? If he didn't there is no such thing as history because no opponents of the first Christians claimed that Jesus was a fabrication and never existed. (Try reading the Jewish historian and Roman sympathizer Jospehus on this or the Roman historians Tacitus or Suetionius. All have disdain for Christianity, are writing within 100 years of Jesus' death and none make the claim he never existed. I am well aware, as one with higher degrees in the subject should be expected to be, of those who argue for his non-existence but my answer to them is that there is better evidence for his existence than for pretty much anyone before him and for most after. So, as opposed to being hyper-critical about it, I choose to believe that if the evidence suggests someone lived then they did. I suspect he lived. There's evidence to suggest he did. I don't believe he was anything special, though he probably claimed to be special. As I'm sure many men did at the time. Think Monty Python's Life of Brian and you get my drift. As to what you refer to as the "Passion of the Christ" story, I believe that is a story and not a record of events. (The film is, of course, even more a story and not least because of the "white" Jesus. But why did Jesus "look like Osama Bin Laden"? NO ONE knows what he looked like. Funny we all make assumptions though!) It seems natural to me that Jesus would have an Arab appearance. Not that I care what he looks like anymore than I do what Panthers next import looks like. Even so, it is not uninstructive. I do not find truth simply in a list of apparent facts. Some of the best lessons I've ever learned came from a story. Anyway, meaning is more than facts. A fact is nothing without a context and that is usually a story or scene to set them in. (Scientific stories about the creation of the universe spring to mind! I learn from them as well.) To that extent I'm intrigued that because I mention an interest in Jesus (an academic one at that) you make the connection with belieiving he is "the messiah". That is certainly an option some Jewish people historically took (for "messiah" is a purely Jewish possibility). I don't think I'd want to comment on that though because there is a whole thoroughly Jewish story behind that term and how it came to be used and what it means. So-called "Messianic Jews" today are still waiting for the Messiah in fact. It's not really intriguing. You believe in a higher being. I was just curious whether you therefore believed in the Jesus story. Muslims believe Jesus lived, just that he wasn't the son of God. I guess that's what I believe - though of course I don't give a hoot about Islam either.
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Post by deutscherhockey on Jul 20, 2005 18:18:41 GMT
If you've researched Jesus as a historical figure and had to come to grips with the mountain of material, academic, religious and otherwise, that has been written in 2000 years since, you start to make distinction about him that others more casual (I mean that in no negative sense) to the subject don't. So I don't think there is just one Jesus story Sunbeam - because there isn't. Even the New Testament has four different ones (called Gospels) and then the facts we get about Jesus from St. Paul are different again. Go figure!
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
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Post by sunbeam on Jul 20, 2005 22:17:43 GMT
Different writers will result in different perspectives. Especially if they are writing after the event. And were not present at the events that they write about.
There are contradictions that are inevitably used as arguments against the Bible. But I don't go into it that deeply.
I'm a cynic. I don't believe in God(s). Nor do I believe in angels, fairies, goblins, unicorns or genies residing in lamps.
Santa Clause? Absolutely!
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Jul 20, 2005 22:38:29 GMT
Well if you want me to be all confessional MP then its your own fault and you'll get what you deserve! . . . . . Well, you did ask MP! Errrrrr.... as you say - I did ask! ;D I'll just go and digest your reply - I may be some time!
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Rhino#13
Jim Keyes
South Notts Outlaws Rule
Posts: 906
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Post by Rhino#13 on Jul 25, 2005 11:49:53 GMT
OK, deutscherhockey. SOME of the sins are related to anti-Roman stuff. I didn't exactly mean the book was anti-establishment so much as it was written by the politicians of the day, Emperor Constantine included presumably. The fact that, as you say, certain books were edited out by him as they didn't suit his personal beliefs (this is the Apocrypha, I assume) shows that the Bible was manipulated by those in or on the fringes of power to exert control on the masses. This is the problem I have with all organised religions. God may be infallible, but the humans who represent God arn't and its actually them people are putting their faith in.
It easy to say the Bible isn't out of date by citing its more sensible instructions such as not killing or stealing. But how about burning pigeons when you menstruate, stoning wives to death for a variety of reasons to do with their husbands activities and plucking one's eyes out if you should look lustfully at another woman ? I'm not even gonna start on how the Leviticus gets used to justify homophobia.
Err, and what happened to the Poll by the way ? It seems decidedly more lopsided than when I last saw it.
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Post by Colonel Mustard on Jul 25, 2005 15:28:20 GMT
Our R.E Teacher , Mr. Geoff. Bagley, prayers every night, he belives in god, but isn`ta christian lol, Anyway, i voted "Yes" i do believe in God, but not as AllMighty, just as a person, put on a corss.
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Post by deutscherhockey on Jul 25, 2005 18:13:30 GMT
OK, deutscherhockey. SOME of the sins are related to anti-Roman stuff. I didn't exactly mean the book was anti-establishment so much as it was written by the politicians of the day, Emperor Constantine included presumably. The fact that, as you say, certain books were edited out by him as they didn't suit his personal beliefs (this is the Apocrypha, I assume) shows that the Bible was manipulated by those in or on the fringes of power to exert control on the masses. This is the problem I have with all organised religions. God may be infallible, but the humans who represent God arn't and its actually them people are putting their faith in. It easy to say the Bible isn't out of date by citing its more sensible instructions such as not killing or stealing. But how about burning pigeons when you menstruate, stoning wives to death for a variety of reasons to do with their husbands activities and plucking one's eyes out if you should look lustfully at another woman ? I'm not even gonna start on how the Leviticus gets used to justify homophobia. Err, and what happened to the Poll by the way ? It seems decidedly more lopsided than when I last saw it. As regards New Testament writings Rhino you are without doubt probably correct. Paul, for example, was a Roman citizen as well as a Jew and the biggest contributor to the New Testament and he does write in a Roman context. Constantine, on the other hand, wrote nothing as he was 200 plus years later (unless you have a new theory). There is more than one kind of apocrypha so you'd have to get specific on your point there. And, finally, to say that the Bible is out of date by citing singular or rare religious laws from specific communities is just as bad as what you accused me of. Indeed, it may be worse since the good bits most people would agree with anyway. Unless you believe in verbal inspiration (God said or dictated every word) or are free to pick and choose as you please anyway.
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Post by Lucy on Jul 25, 2005 22:04:34 GMT
Who'd have thought the Cage Forum would have got to three pages on this, but let's take it a stage further.
Do you believe God only created us earthly human beings, or do you think that somewhere out there in this huge universe, there is another sort of life?
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
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Post by MP on Jul 25, 2005 23:17:42 GMT
! First off, I don't wish to confuse religion, belief in god, beliefs, religious matters, biblical studies, etc, as if they were all the same thing: they aren't. Religion can be something as vague as a feeling or as boring as mere weekly church attendance Belief in a single, beneficent deity is perhaps the least demanding form of religion - unless the rules of observance are made onerous by those who control it. Religion can take many forms or conversely, there are many beliefs and activities that are cast as religion. I don't believe in gods or see the need for them. I can and do feel an empathy for landscape at times - I can see why aboriginal peoples developed very close links with the landscape as a whole. That in itself can be described as a form of religion. From there it's a short step to the creation of supernatural beings etc. I agree with that - even as a non-believer! I don't see the need for gods or deities. I do believe in chance as such - the Chaos Theory and similar ideas can explain how many things come to pass. However, we humans know so little about the "world" we live in. We are constantly expanding our knowledge but there is no certainty that what we think we know is actually valid or won't be overturned in the light of future knowledge. I think of the human race being like an explorer on a glacier in midwinter, trying to find his way by means of a headlamp. The world about him is complex and confusing, seen piecemeal in the tiny cone of light thrown by the lamp. Enlightenment only comes where his gaze is directed. Information gathered has to be interpreted and remembered to try and find a way forward. Often he'll take what seems to be a promising line only to find it's a cul-de-sac He/we never see the bigger picture about us - we can surmise what the wider world is like but can only truly believe what we can see close about us - and even that is distorted by the shadows cast by our feeble enlightenment.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Jul 25, 2005 23:23:47 GMT
Do you believe God only created us earthly human beings, or do you think that somewhere out there in this huge universe, there is another sort of life? An interesting question for those who believe in God Lucy - not a matter I've heard discussed a deal. As a non-believer I'd be amazed if there wasn't other life in the universe. Considering the varied and (until very recently) improbable life forms being found on the earth, there must surely be other life out in the vastness of space. Not necessarily of a form we expect or readily recognise though.
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Post by deutscherhockey on Jul 26, 2005 8:41:02 GMT
Who'd have thought the Cage Forum would have got to three pages on this, but let's take it a stage further. Do you believe God only created us earthly human beings, or do you think that somewhere out there in this huge universe, there is another sort of life? It's a good question Lucy. If you don't believe in a creator god who made the universe and stuff like that you are quite free to believe in millions of little planet earths throughout the universe in places so far away we would never comprehend the distance. Indeed, you might find it hard to believe that such wouldn't be the case. After all, if this is all chance then what makes us and our solar system so special? However, if you DO believe in a creator god (and even if you only believe in that) I think it changes the ball park a bit. This is because, it seems to me, that if a sentient being created the universe there's no reason at all why he has to create lots of planets like earth with life on and such things. Of course he (or she - but that's another discussion!) COULD do that but there's no reason that they have to. So if a god created us we could be the only ones he did create. Now I don't know if we are the only ones and I have no way of knowing. I do know the Judeo-Christian assumption is that we are. But what do they know?
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Rhino#13
Jim Keyes
South Notts Outlaws Rule
Posts: 906
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Post by Rhino#13 on Jul 26, 2005 11:30:55 GMT
Do you believe God only created us earthly human beings, or do you think that somewhere out there in this huge universe, there is another sort of life? I think the human race would have to be pretty arrogant to believe that they were the only ones 'out there' to be honest. Whether there's a creator god or not, I find it difficult to believe that there's no life existing somewhere else in the universe. Didn't they find traces of previously existing single celled organisms on Mars anyway ? It was ages ago though and I can't remember the whole story now.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Jul 26, 2005 23:02:00 GMT
Didn't they find traces of previously existing single celled organisms on Mars anyway ? It was ages ago though and I can't remember the whole story now. NASA announced with considerable fanfare that they'd found (likely) evidence of life on Mars - namely fossilised bacteria in a rock sample. Their view is by no means universally accepted though - other scientists are of the opinion the "fossils" were produced by a chemical process rather than biological. As far as I'm aware, the jury is still out on the issue.
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Post by deutscherhockey on Jul 27, 2005 6:09:58 GMT
How would we know if we did find life somewhere else? We are looking for things either like us or our experience of what "life" is! I find that slightly "arrogant" - to quote Rhino. Maybe we will find out that to some other way of life somwhere else we are bacteria!!
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Rhino#13
Jim Keyes
South Notts Outlaws Rule
Posts: 906
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Post by Rhino#13 on Jul 27, 2005 11:28:14 GMT
How would we know if we did find life somewhere else? We are looking for things either like us or our experience of what "life" is! I find that slightly "arrogant" - to quote Rhino. Maybe we will find out that to some other way of life somwhere else we are bacteria!! Good point, well made. How do we know life is always forced to be organic ?
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