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Post by crunchie on May 2, 2005 1:16:50 GMT
Yes it is that easy. You don't need a skill or proffesion. As for your folks & friends, if they are like minded, they'll probably all want to go with ya. Problem solved!
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andyd
Ken Westman
THE logo!
Posts: 2,719
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Post by andyd on May 2, 2005 12:10:31 GMT
I'm with Wigs here, if you don't like it leave. If you don't want to learn a new language go live in Scandanavia or Holland where absolutely everyone speaks English. If not leaving your family is an issue then surely Britain isn't all that bad as they're a good thing about the UK.
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Post by deutscherhockey on May 2, 2005 12:50:40 GMT
Every working person pays tax. We all provide services of some description to the community. We all WANT better jobs, better money, & better prospects. Should the rest of society fund our wants?. They do already wigwam if you use anything "public" - like a hospital or a road for example. Wihtout some kind of public purse our wants would all be reduced by what was possible.
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Post by deutscherhockey on May 2, 2005 12:52:12 GMT
The fact is that the NSDAP got into power in Germany due to social & economic collapse after the Great war. The BNP can't claim our economy is in ruins, blame a defeat that never was on the Jewish influence in government or fight for power with the Communist party. I doubt very much the BNP will ever get into any serious position to challenge politically, mainly because the majority can them for what they are. The only reason that far-Right parties have had success in Germany & France since the 1990's is largely down to the apathy of voters, not because Right-wing views are gaining support per se. What success have far right parties had in Germany since the 1990's?
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Post by crunchie on May 2, 2005 18:43:53 GMT
I KNOW we all pay for 'public services'...that wasn't part of my arguement! My arguement is, we shouldn't be paying for people who want to better themselves in further education. WHEN you better yourself....you earn more money..you pay it back.
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Post by crunchie on May 2, 2005 19:24:18 GMT
I wouldn't vote BNP in a million years. I don't like them, & what they stand for. They may claim to be a non-racist party, but people like Nick Griffin, have shown their true colours on MORE than one occasion. However, we DO live in a democracy, & as much as it may sicken the majority, they are a party & as such allowed a voice.
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Matt
Simon Hunt
Posts: 1,052
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Post by Matt on May 2, 2005 20:27:21 GMT
I know that we should exercise our right to vote and all that,but I really don`t trust any of these parties/politicians.They all tell lies and seem to hold "the masses"in contempt until election time when they are full of promises.
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Post by hitman69 on May 3, 2005 9:39:21 GMT
This country stinks eh?. IF so, I have 2 questions: 1/. If it's so bad, why are you still here?. With the open EU market, & the ability to live & work virtually any place in Europe we please. You DON'T actually have to live in the UK. 2/ Again, if it's the pits..why don't you vote, help elect a goverment of YOUR choice, & lobby them to make the changes you want?. APATHY RULES OK!! i have my opinion you have yours. im sticking by what i have said, to me it doesnt matter who wins the election there all bad and in some cases rotten to the core. if i dont like it then leave, well read the second last line of my post and youll see the only reason im still stuck in this country is £££££££££££££ need i say more. my wife and my kids and other members of my family have said go for it, if thats what you want to do then great. the sooner the better i say. you stay here and get skinned for every tax possible and be filled with lies about the NHS, education education education , immigration and crime and Iraq. like i said before if i could i would go tomorrow, i only live here at the moment because i have to. by the way im not getting at you personally Wigwam its just how i feel and have felt for a while now. my brother has the right idea, any jobs going is sweden bruv?
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Rhino#13
Jim Keyes
South Notts Outlaws Rule
Posts: 906
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Post by Rhino#13 on May 3, 2005 11:29:07 GMT
I don't have many favourite quotes from Michael Howard, but he hit the nail on the head when he described the BNP as 'a bunch of thugs dressed up as a political party'. Fantastic !
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Post by heja on May 3, 2005 12:12:14 GMT
doesn't that first quoted paragraph kinda mean that that second one is irrevalant??
because if it wasn't then there is nothing stoping you from moving.
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Post by deutscherhockey on May 3, 2005 12:45:59 GMT
I KNOW we all pay for 'public services'...that wasn't part of my arguement! My arguement is, we shouldn't be paying for people who want to better themselves in further education. WHEN you better yourself....you earn more money..you pay it back. Ok, if that's your argument then why is no political party in the mainstream supporting it? Quite the opposite in fact. Perhaps its because the mainstream doesn't think only those with the money should be able to afford to better themselves via education? Just imagine all those publicly funded people in the medical profession for example...
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Post by ted on May 3, 2005 13:03:34 GMT
Wheee..... im back... not that anyone missed me!
Anyway....
The election. There are enough people here that say 'I agree with Lib Dems but they wont get in so its a wasted vote' They will never have a chance if everyone thought like that. That said i wont be voting for them. Despite the fact that they are the only mainstream party that openly condemned the war they just dont have enough long term plans to make me vote. As much as i hate to say it... ill be voting labour. I hate Tony Blair for going to war but i think the Labour Government has done a fine job of bringing back the economy from the brink after the years under the Tories. Im still not too keen on the fact that Blair doesnt seem to care what anyone thinks about him within his own party, never mind the general public. Now hes refusing to answer questions on the war. He has blood on his hands and wont admit it.
On whoever voted for the BNP.... I hope that it was just some twisted 'joke' or you pressed the wrong button. I thought hockey fans and the users of this forum at least to be a pretty liberal bunch. I dont like to think theres many right wing nazi tossers amongst us. I dont even need to go into my quarms with the BNP.
On racists.... Kilroy.... when he left the UKIP and said he was gonna run on his own.... i just knew he would go for the most backward, inbred constituency going.... and lo and behold he came to mine. Gimmie 6 guys! Even the BNP heckled him and accused him of stealing their manifesto. At least the BNP know they are racists and can aknowledge why people dislike them.
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Post by hitman69 on May 3, 2005 13:08:13 GMT
doesn't that first quoted paragraph kinda mean that that second one is irrevalant?? because if it wasn't then there is nothing stoping you from moving. im talking about cash in hand and back up cash in the bank, my wages pay the bills the wife wages run the household, thats why i said in my first post its something a lottery win would put right. if you dont think we get over taxed in this country then thats up to you. 1.do you own a car? car tax, fuel tax 2.do you own a house? bills with added VAT , council tax, what does that pay for ?because although the council tell you what the money goes on, i dont see much evidence. some of the money goes to Notts Police, but just look at the crime figures and bad press in Notts 3.do you smoke? you lot can all stick up for this country all you want, but i'll tell you this it isnt GREAT Britain any more and we certainly aren't part or head of any empire anymore. theres only Gibralter and the Falklands left, weve even given most of the British Isles up to immigrants and assylum seakers. Heja i appreciate your opinion on this just as i do with all the other cagers. i guess i stand alone on this one
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Post by crunchie on May 3, 2005 14:12:37 GMT
deutscherhockey.... Yes that is my point. My point isn't about 'Why isn't any party dealing with it'. Publicly funded people in medicine?. Yes there probably is, & that doesn't mean I or anyone else DOES or DOESN'T agree with it. Again..NOTHING to do with my original OR follow up psots Hitman, of course I respect your view, I aint saying either of us is right, it's just my own point of view. No laws say we must all agree. Luckily we all live in a democracy, & all views are valid & equal
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Post by Samxpenguin on May 3, 2005 14:42:23 GMT
Ok, if that's your argument then why is no political party in the mainstream supporting it? Quite the opposite in fact. Perhaps its because the mainstream doesn't think only those with the money should be able to afford to better themselves via education? Just imagine all those publicly funded people in the medical profession for example... I believe people should have to pay to go to University, there in the end going to earn more (well most will). Yet i do think there should be substantial maintance grants for those who otherwise couldn't afford to go to University. People shouldn't be stopped from being educated cause thye can't afford it. I also believe IF they go on to work in the NHS, Teaching or a public service they should be able to have thier debts from tuiition fees and student loans lowered/cut. One thing that annoys me is the idea of sending 50% of people to University, i think thats ridiculous. This country is 150,000+ short on maintanance jobs such as plumbing/Bulding. People at a younger age should be encouraged to go towards these professions which will often suit them better than further education. And Kilroy (as Ted mentioned above)...showing himself for who he was when a Bosnian man said 'I'm going back to my home next July', to which Kilroy replied 'Why not tomorow'? What a disgrace he is
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Post by hitman69 on May 3, 2005 15:05:08 GMT
i agree with you there Sam, school leavers dont have the skills people had 20 years ago when they left school.
then the schools were mostly grammer schools so you could learn woodwork and metalwork amongst other things.
nowerdays with most school being comprehensives you learn more on computer keyboards and religion than any practical skills
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Post by ted on May 3, 2005 16:47:48 GMT
Im inclined to agree with hitman up to a point..... Whilst we are no longer head of a globe spanning empire.... is that such a bad thing? America is the worlds biggest superpower now and look at how much they are hated by the majority of the world seemingly just for being a big superpower.
However i think its no bad thing we are learning about different cultures in schools and allowing asylum seekers in. Im all for cultural diversity. It just needs to be controlled a lot better than it seems to be now. Im not in agreement that we should bend over backwards to help assylum seekers though. I think too much money is ploughed into helping them over helping our own homeless population. And that all comes from who? me, you and every other tax payer. Why am i funding kids to get through university? Theres no great need for uni educated kids. Fair enough lets fund people who are becoming doctors/nurses etc. but if they dont become doctors/nurses/teachers at the end of it they should have to pay all that cash back. evey last penny. If they are becoming whale biologists.... why should they be given grants. Also why am i paying for a guy at work. he has Cerebal Palsy (or so he says), he is mildly disabled. He gets £200 a month every month from the government to help him live. Buy clothes, get busses etc. This guy is on the same money as me, hes joined some scheme where he gets a car on lease for 3 years paid for with his disability allowance. He lives with his parents and if he does go on the dole he gets more money than me and you. Why? Dont even get me started on gypsies
I do agree wholeheartedly on the point about skills learnt in schools. Im only 20, i left school 4 years ago and had an A in woodwork as i left and I was taught to cook as well up until year 9, but aside from that ive had to learn a lot of things of my dad (such as how my house is wired up and how a car engine works). How can most people of my generation function without their parents or tradesmen around to help them out? Ask any of my freinds (with a few exeptions) how to change a car tyre or even change a plug and i bet they wouldnt have a clue. Since then technologies and practical lessons are no longer compulsory. Neither is humanities.
Too much emphasis was put on college then university..... why? I sat in the bless (my 'local') sunday listening to some student types discussing America, the war and the election and although they all used big words and sounded confident discussing their GCSE level psychological assesments of the world leaders and their little interpretations of major world events i couldnt help thinking that when in 4 years they have finished their education and got a degree.... what then? They will have come out of uni... into a job similar to mine if they arent extremely lucky they will just be 5 years behind me. It may sound cynical but its realistic.
How many of these little ******** running around nottingham with their tracksuits tucked into their socks or the ones who hang about outside the town hall on their skateboards with impractically baggy jeans will have any idea about the real world when they leave school? How many of them will have any idea who Winston Churchill was? What the history of the British Isles as a whole is?
That said... the state of this countrys youth is hardly the governments sole fault. I think ive gone off one a tangent with this one. I blame the parents....
and end....
sorry.... tangent finished....
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Post by hitman69 on May 3, 2005 16:54:54 GMT
Im inclined to agree with hitman up to a point..... Whilst we are no longer head of a globe spanning empire.... is that such a bad thing? America is the worlds biggest superpower now and look at how much they are hated by the majority of the world seemingly just for being a big superpower. However i think its no bad thing we are learning about different cultures in schools and allowing asylum seekers in. Im all for cultural diversity. It just needs to be controlled a lot better than it seems to be now. Im not in agreement that we should bend over backwards to help assylum seekers though. I think too much money is ploughed into helping them over helping our own homeless population. I do agree wholeheartedly on the point about skills learnt in schools. Im only 20, i left school 4 years ago and had an A in woodwork as i left and I was taught to cook as well up until year 9, but aside from that ive had to learn a lot of things of my dad (such as how my house is wired up and how a car engine works). How can most people of my generation function without their parents or tradesmen around to help them out? Ask any of my freinds (with a few exeptions) how to change a car tyre or even change a plug and i bet they wouldnt have a clue. Since then technologies and practical lessons are no longer compulsory. Neither is humanities. Too much emphasis was put on college then university..... why? I sat in the bless (my 'local') sunday listening to some student types discussing America, the war and the election and although they all used big words and sounded confident discussing their GCSE level psychological assesments of the world leaders and their little interpretations of major world events i couldnt help thinking that when in 4 years they have finished their education and got a degree.... what then? They will have come out of uni... into a job similar to mine if they arent extremely lucky they will just be 5 years behind me. It may sound cynical but its realistic. How many of these little ******** running around nottingham with their tracksuits tucked into their socks or the ones who hang about outside the town hall on their skateboards with impractically baggy jeans will have any idea about the real world when they leave school? How many of them will have any idea who Winston Churchill was? What the history of the British Isles as a whole is? That said... the state of this countrys youth is hardly the governments sole fault. I think ive gone off one a tangent with this one. I blame the parents.... and end.... sorry.... tangent finished.... im all for cultural diversity, im not racist one bit, and i work with some who are very good at their job, better than some young lads that get taken on now and then at the tender age of 18 or 19 and dont want the work, they just turn up to get paid, they last 5 minutes. now whoes gone off on a tangent the other point is the young yob culture we all have to put up with nowdays, i blame the parents too, and i am a parent, but would you agree that if there was more dicsipline in schools that would help.
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Matt
Simon Hunt
Posts: 1,052
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Post by Matt on May 3, 2005 17:15:17 GMT
you lot can all stick up for this country all you want, but i'll tell you this it isnt GREAT Britain any more and we certainly aren't part or head of any empire anymore. theres only Gibralter and the Falklands left, weve even given most of the British Isles up to immigrants and assylum seakers. i guess i stand alone on this one I for one love this country,am very proud to be British and am proud of my country`s proud history and heritage. But like "hitman",I`m sick and tired of the way that the England is increasingly going to the dogs! Us Brits are a tolerant bunch on the whole,the main reason why any far-right party hasn`t gained any large scale success here,but this tolerance has been exploited like never before,by the present Labour goverment. "Ted"has said that Kilroy is racist.Why? Is it just because he dares to critiicise our shambles of an Asylum policy? Left wing facists are guilty of jumping on anyone that wishes to bring the issue of immigration/asylum seekers up for debate,calling them names like Facist and racist. All that does is breed resentment,and when people bottle their thoughts and feeling up,eventually they tend to react irrationally.
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Matt
Simon Hunt
Posts: 1,052
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Post by Matt on May 3, 2005 17:33:50 GMT
Also why am i paying for a guy at work. he has Cerebal Palsy (or so he says), he is mildly disabled. He gets £200 a month every month from the government to help him live. Buy clothes, get busses etc. This guy is on the same money as me, hes joined some scheme where he gets a car on lease for 3 years paid for with his disability allowance. He lives with his parents and if he does go on the dole he gets more money than me and you. Why? Do you have any idea what it`s like living with a Disability? That guy you work with is lucky to get a job at all.Why shouldn`t we(able bodied) look after those in our community who are unfortunate to be disabled. Also,why would anyone "pretend"to have Cerebal Palsy? My daughter is Autistic.I hope that when she gets older that she can be lucky enough to get a little job and get some sort of feeling of normality,something that the rest of us take for granted.I also hope that if she does then she doesn`t work with a narrow-minded person like you.
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Post by heja on May 3, 2005 17:41:15 GMT
i don't have a problem with helping disabled people IF they don't have a job or there job doesn't pay as much because of the disabilty
BUT if the person is on the same ammount of money as anyone else in teh same position with out a disabilty why should they get more benifits??
like with your daughter if she strugles to get a job (but does try to get one) but can't because of her disabilty then give her benifits etc because she couldn't live a half decent life with out them.
same with anyone who tries to get a job and are doing everything they can to get one but can't i think should get benifits. BUT anyone who is just bone idle and can't be bothered to try and get one shouldn't get benifits IMO well certainly not so much that you could buy things that are not needed
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Matt
Simon Hunt
Posts: 1,052
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Post by Matt on May 3, 2005 17:56:00 GMT
i don't have a problem with helping disabled people IF they don't have a job or there job doesn't pay as much because of the disabilty BUT if the person is on the same ammount of money as anyone else in teh same position with out a disabilty why should they get more benifits?? I don`t think they should get any more either,just that they be allowed to get the chance the same as you and me. I don`t think Ted knows all the facts,I can`t see how this guy he works with can get an equal wage to everyone else AND claim disability benefits.The system does not work like this. By his "or so he says"comment,"Ted"comes across badly in my book.Why would anyone pretend to be disabled?
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Post by Samxpenguin on May 3, 2005 21:38:43 GMT
"Ted"has said that Kilroy is racist.Why? Is it just because he dares to critiicise our shambles of an Asylum policy? Left wing facists are guilty of jumping on anyone that wishes to bring the issue of immigration/asylum seekers up for debate,calling them names like Facist and racist. All that does is breed resentment,and when people bottle their thoughts and feeling up,eventually they tend to react irrationally. What annoys me is when imigration is one of the main forms of policy, its not as important as Education, Crime, NHS etc. It is an issue that needs dealing with but it's not as 'drastic' as people make out. TBH most people who i've heard complain about Imigration/Asylem seekers don't have a clue what there on about, infact they don't know the difference between the two. The Sun and papers like that over-exagerate the immgration 'catastrophy' in my opinion, yes it may need tightening (in way of keeping out illigal immigrants) but one thing you'll notice the amount of people coming in and out of Britain is about equal. We need immigrants to do fill jobs that British people can't. As for Kilroy... well i think 'Pathetic', 'useless' and 'Rascist' sum him up...
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Post by crunchie on May 3, 2005 21:43:36 GMT
Anyone else noticed that those people who sell 'Socialist Worker' outside Marks & Spencer, are generally student types?. Socialist WORKER?? Try calling it socialist STUDENT, the majority aint ever done a proper days WORK. Gets reet on my baps does that!
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