Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
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Post by Jord v4 on Nov 29, 2021 16:02:59 GMT
If you want change then don't attend. Only way it's going to happen. There are some lovely activities you could be doing in the Evening instead. This is really beginning to feel like Grounghog Day !! Sure is buddy, sure is.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 29, 2021 17:38:46 GMT
Certainly are making a killing.....Just look at this weekends two games. Sheffield must have grossed over £100k from 7000 plus fans yesterday and Panthers at least £70k today from 4400 fans and yet the weeks wage bill is only £12.5k for each team. They’re taking the pisss big time with this paltry wage cap, Neil Black and Tony Smith must be laughing all the way to the bank happy that their punters will put up with this poor quality of hockey ! Wages aren't the only costs though, are they? I suspect hiring an arena 40 times a season doesn't come cheap. £50k a time? Does anyone have any idea what the NIC charge the Panthers? £50k a time don’t talk daft, not very long ago they were paying £14k a week. Even Tony Smith admitted a few months ago it cost around £1million a year to put an arena team on the ice,which if you look back on my posts you will find that is exactly the figure I’ve always estimated. The only significant costs they have are players wages and arena hire,other decent costs yes but nothing huge. Yes there are flights.accommodation,team bus and office staff etc but you’re not looking at huge sums there. They’re making a killing whilst putting something cheap on the ice !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 18:29:15 GMT
Arena hire is around £18-25k per week . The arena in Sheffield is nearer 25k. It may have increased to try and drag in lost revenue from when they shut due to Covid but it won't be a huge increase . Like iginla says this team are making huge profits and have done for years. What loyal fanbase remains (and it's getting smaller by the year) are being taken for mugs and whoever can't accept that it's their problem .
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bobness
Les Strongman
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Post by bobness on Nov 29, 2021 18:40:55 GMT
Compared to fife it probably isn't cheap..imagine getting beaten by a team on a lower budget than you! Ouch And yet it happens all the time, in all sport.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 19:05:17 GMT
Compared to fife it probably isn't cheap..imagine getting beaten by a team on a lower budget than you! Ouch And yet it happens all the time, in all sport. Just involving panthers more often than not.. and for a lot longer periods...
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Jonno
Pat Casey
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Post by Jonno on Nov 29, 2021 19:47:18 GMT
Severe lack of quality, nothings changed. There isn't one import id be really upset to lose if we were offered a theoretical entire squad swap. Welsh and Domingue only players i'd like to see stay. I do like Norrish but the D is built all wrong. Brassard, Lane, Carozza, Baillargeon would be the first changes I'd make. We need a no nonsense Dman, too many offensive minded forwards. Matherson could be upgraded(I dont blame W&G for giving him another go though). Souranta for some strange reason I still think comes good, but he could go tomorrow and it'd be no loss. New forward deserves a few more games before deciding. I've seen us start with some poor teams but I think this could well be the worst. There’s plenty wrong with this club/roster but you must be watching a different game to me if you think Brassard is part of the problem
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Post by Bagheera on Nov 29, 2021 20:36:43 GMT
Severe lack of quality, nothings changed. There isn't one import id be really upset to lose if we were offered a theoretical entire squad swap. Welsh and Domingue only players i'd like to see stay. I do like Norrish but the D is built all wrong. Brassard, Lane, Carozza, Baillargeon would be the first changes I'd make. We need a no nonsense Dman, too many offensive minded forwards. Matherson could be upgraded(I dont blame W&G for giving him another go though). Souranta for some strange reason I still think comes good, but he could go tomorrow and it'd be no loss. New forward deserves a few more games before deciding. I've seen us start with some poor teams but I think this could well be the worst. There’s plenty wrong with this club/roster but you must be watching a different game to me if you think Brassard is part of the problem I dont think Brassard is a bad player at all actually. Probably unfair to put him in the list with those guys. Problem I see is that our D is built all wrong. Norrish I really like. Im not sure this D can afford both him and Brassard. Of the 2 I prefer Norrish. We really need a solid stay at home Dman. Even Dogherty likes to take trips deep into the offensive zone. Matherson, Doherty, Norrish, Brassard, Lee. All of those Dmen enjoy playing an offensive style. I could happily see Matherson go behind tbe bench and bring in an upgrade for him to be honest. The balance is all wrong.
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Jonno
Pat Casey
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Post by Jonno on Nov 29, 2021 21:02:42 GMT
There’s plenty wrong with this club/roster but you must be watching a different game to me if you think Brassard is part of the problem I dont think Brassard is a bad player at all actually. Probably unfair to put him in the list with those guys. Problem I see is that our D is built all wrong. Norrish I really like. Im not sure this D can afford both him and Brassard. Of the 2 I prefer Norrish. We really need a solid stay at home Dman. Even Dogherty likes to take trips deep into the offensive zone. Matherson, Doherty, Norrish, Brassard, Lee. All of those Dmen enjoy playing an offensive style. I could happily see Matherson go behind tbe bench and bring in an upgrade for him to be honest. The balance is all wrong. Agree with most of this to be fair. Our defence as a unit is absolute garbage and with a goalie like Carr in net, you need to be rock solid. We’ve definitely overlooked the value of the hard hitting, stay at home Dman. I personally think Brassard, along with Welsh has been our best player over the last few weeks. The problem is…the issues without defence are probably secondary to the problems we have up front. I’d drive Lane, Suoranta, Baillargeon, Carozza and Jokinen (based on what Iv seen of him so far) to the airport tomorrow. The only way to fix this roster is to chuck it in the bin and let someone (preferably not Doucet) start again.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 29, 2021 21:09:04 GMT
Oh for a Beckett,Werner,Lepine and Weaver. It really shouldn’t be hard to put a balanced D together should it ! 🙄 Somebody tell Wallace and Grommit what they need.
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,616
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Post by Mark on Nov 29, 2021 21:27:02 GMT
Not all. Some people think the sun shines out of their arses. Apologies if I came across a little obtuse, agree that some do believe they are the beacons of light... Which, given the cast iron evidence of one league title in most people's lifetime, is actually rather alarming isn't it. No need to apologise. You're quite correct.
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EMB
Randall Weber
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Post by EMB on Nov 29, 2021 21:28:44 GMT
Iggy, you know what it’s like, how much control have Wallace & Doucet actually got, & how much is you know who still pulling the strings. At the end of the day they both work for NB under the control of GM. Their hands are tied end of, it just depends how long they are prepared to take the flack. I’ve been watching since 2000 and too be honest things haven’t changed that much.
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Post by jd on Nov 29, 2021 21:55:36 GMT
Iggy, you know what it’s like, how much control have Wallace & Doucet actually got, & how much is you know who still pulling the strings. At the end of the day they both work for NB under the control of GM. Their hands are tied end of, it just depends how long they are prepared to take the flack. I’ve been watching since 2000 and too be honest things haven’t changed that much. So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off
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bobness
Les Strongman
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Post by bobness on Nov 29, 2021 22:04:07 GMT
Iggy, you know what it’s like, how much control have Wallace & Doucet actually got, & how much is you know who still pulling the strings. At the end of the day they both work for NB under the control of GM. Their hands are tied end of, it just depends how long they are prepared to take the flack. I’ve been watching since 2000 and too be honest things haven’t changed that much. So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off A broken clock is right twice a day, I guess. Despite Blacks efforts, Panthers had a winning team that season.
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
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Post by Jord v4 on Nov 29, 2021 22:15:14 GMT
Iggy, you know what it’s like, how much control have Wallace & Doucet actually got, & how much is you know who still pulling the strings. At the end of the day they both work for NB under the control of GM. Their hands are tied end of, it just depends how long they are prepared to take the flack. I’ve been watching since 2000 and too be honest things haven’t changed that much. So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off Ling, Fox, Graham, K-Wall & a decent Brit pack.... Pretty much a perfect storm.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 29, 2021 22:19:04 GMT
Iggy, you know what it’s like, how much control have Wallace & Doucet actually got, & how much is you know who still pulling the strings. At the end of the day they both work for NB under the control of GM. Their hands are tied end of, it just depends how long they are prepared to take the flack. I’ve been watching since 2000 and too be honest things haven’t changed that much. So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off That 2012/13 team was a very good well balanced team with an excellent Brit pack. But they also had a big advantage that the Steelers and Devils were both really struggling because Bob Phillips and Paul Ragan had left them both in a poor state so neither team were really any threat. That only really left Giants as a challenger and we all know what happened.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,440
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Post by iginla on Nov 29, 2021 22:32:25 GMT
Iggy, you know what it’s like, how much control have Wallace & Doucet actually got, & how much is you know who still pulling the strings. At the end of the day they both work for NB under the control of GM. Their hands are tied end of, it just depends how long they are prepared to take the flack. I’ve been watching since 2000 and too be honest things haven’t changed that much. I’ve watched since 2001 up until a couple of years ago and you’re right nothings changed and it never will until at least GM departs,then things might change a bit depending whether a proper hockey person comes in to replace Moran or as I suspect one already in the office takes over that role. But ultimately Black holds the purse strings and until he changes the way he runs it Panthers will always be the big club that never did what they could.
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Post by blackandgold73 on Nov 30, 2021 0:55:32 GMT
Iggy, you know what it’s like, how much control have Wallace & Doucet actually got, & how much is you know who still pulling the strings. At the end of the day they both work for NB under the control of GM. Their hands are tied end of, it just depends how long they are prepared to take the flack. I’ve been watching since 2000 and too be honest things haven’t changed that much. So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off Lucky recruitment maybe? Roughly six point a game players by the end of the year, plus the same again at 0.5-0.7 a game with a decent Brit pack puts you in contention most years, as it did us that year. But we *rarely* have that, unlike some other teams. Interestingly, we had six players average a point a game last year in the Series too. But I just can't see where those players are in this team, at least not yet. And certainly not in comparison to other teams who are already heading to those sort of numbers on only a handful more games. Tim juggled his lines an infuriating amount last year but it paid off in the end. But I just don't get that feel this year. You'll get no argument from me that for a club of our size we've constantly underperformed in the league, though that can't be said of other competitions during the CN years - but they have always only required a handful of good games to win, and players step it up at that point. Right now our point production pales in comparison to our rivals. And, sadly, our management too. You can feel other teams management's passion for the teams. With ours the feeling too often is "meh, that'll do" It's a minor point but perhaps it illustrates the problem... Take the Panthers website. 90%+ of the content is either video or audio now. Virtually no text content any more, even to accompany the other stuff. And it's got less and less in recent years. Why video and audio? Yes you can sponsor it but you'd have been a fool to set up a sponsorship that prevented text as well. So why *only* video and audio? It's quick. It's easy. It's often outsourced to a devoted fan. It's minimum effort for the management. Feels like that says it all nowadays. Minimum effort from the owner/management, whilst still expecting maximum effort from the employees, fans and team. What's that expression: "A leader leads their team from the front. A manager sits behind their team cracking a whip". One role requires passion and effort. They other only the ability to pick up a paycheck. For all the talk of "leaders in the room", Panthers increasingly give the impression that only applies to the on ice team.
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Post by blackandgold73 on Nov 30, 2021 1:22:59 GMT
Just spotted this on another thread which kind of ties in. Seems other teams fans feel the same way about our "coverage" So unbelievably amateur why would you set up a interview position in a place that’s so noisy it’s untrue, just like the team it’s very poor in every way, it’s like setting up a cemetery in a minefield. Listen to the interviews on YouTube after Panthers v Flyers game it’s pathetic, who the hell sorts this garbage out, not being funny panthers but this is playground coverage in fact calling it coverage is a insult. Unbelievable bad. Probably you guys will ban this as it’s too honest. Minimum effort seems to be the recurring theme
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Nov 30, 2021 9:24:40 GMT
So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off Lucky recruitment maybe? Roughly six point a game players by the end of the year, plus the same again at 0.5-0.7 a game with a decent Brit pack puts you in contention most years, as it did us that year. But we *rarely* have that, unlike some other teams. Interestingly, we had six players average a point a game last year in the Series too. But I just can't see where those players are in this team, at least not yet. And certainly not in comparison to other teams who are already heading to those sort of numbers on only a handful more games. Tim juggled his lines an infuriating amount last year but it paid off in the end. But I just don't get that feel this year. You'll get no argument from me that for a club of our size we've constantly underperformed in the league, though that can't be said of other competitions during the CN years - but they have always only required a handful of good games to win, and players step it up at that point. Right now our point production pales in comparison to our rivals. And, sadly, our management too. You can feel other teams management's passion for the teams. With ours the feeling too often is "meh, that'll do" It's a minor point but perhaps it illustrates the problem... Take the Panthers website. 90%+ of the content is either video or audio now. Virtually no text content any more, even to accompany the other stuff. And it's got less and less in recent years. Why video and audio? Yes you can sponsor it but you'd have been a fool to set up a sponsorship that prevented text as well. So why *only* video and audio? It's quick. It's easy. It's often outsourced to a devoted fan. It's minimum effort for the management. Feels like that says it all nowadays. Minimum effort from the owner/management, whilst still expecting maximum effort from the employees, fans and team. What's that expression: "A leader leads their team from the front. A manager sits behind their team cracking a whip". One role requires passion and effort. They other only the ability to pick up a paycheck. For all the talk of "leaders in the room", Panthers increasingly give the impression that only applies to the on ice team. Teams are either in the business of winning or making money.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,440
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Post by iginla on Nov 30, 2021 9:34:48 GMT
So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off Lucky recruitment maybe? Roughly six point a game players by the end of the year, plus the same again at 0.5-0.7 a game with a decent Brit pack puts you in contention most years, as it did us that year. But we *rarely* have that, unlike some other teams. Interestingly, we had six players average a point a game last year in the Series too. But I just can't see where those players are in this team, at least not yet. And certainly not in comparison to other teams who are already heading to those sort of numbers on only a handful more games. Tim juggled his lines an infuriating amount last year but it paid off in the end. But I just don't get that feel this year. You'll get no argument from me that for a club of our size we've constantly underperformed in the league, though that can't be said of other competitions during the CN years - but they have always only required a handful of good games to win, and players step it up at that point. Right now our point production pales in comparison to our rivals. And, sadly, our management too. You can feel other teams management's passion for the teams. With ours the feeling too often is "meh, that'll do" It's a minor point but perhaps it illustrates the problem... Take the Panthers website. 90%+ of the content is either video or audio now. Virtually no text content any more, even to accompany the other stuff. And it's got less and less in recent years. Why video and audio? Yes you can sponsor it but you'd have been a fool to set up a sponsorship that prevented text as well. So why *only* video and audio? It's quick. It's easy. It's often outsourced to a devoted fan. It's minimum effort for the management. Feels like that says it all nowadays. Minimum effort from the owner/management, whilst still expecting maximum effort from the employees, fans and team. What's that expression: "A leader leads their team from the front. A manager sits behind their team cracking a whip". One role requires passion and effort. They other only the ability to pick up a paycheck. For all the talk of "leaders in the room", Panthers increasingly give the impression that only applies to the on ice team. Excellent post that and oh so very very true. I often wonder,love him or loathe him,if only Panthers had somebody with the passion for his club that Simmsey has for the Steelers then what a difference it would make in Nottingham.
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Post by messier1851 on Nov 30, 2021 10:03:59 GMT
So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off A combination of factors and everything going right is the short answer. Jordan Fox. The bold decision was taken to allow Danny Meyers to leave and Jonathan Weaver came in to replace him, who was the premier British D-man in the league but at the time this wasn't a hugely popular move in some quarters. Ling and Graham were superb, Ling was an actual first-line centre, something we have neglected more or less every season. We had superb secondary scoring from the likes of Francis, Galivan and Benedict, toughness from Wilson and Lepine and three Brits who scored 10+ goals. David Clarke was a still an elite goalscorer at this point too. When players went down with injury we brought in spares, Beauregard being an example of a guy who was just around the team in case of injury and was happy to play that role. Throw in outstanding goaltending and you've got a league winning team. The sad thing is they never built on the success. Myers left, although Farmer did come in mid-season. Ling was gone, Bob Wren was supposed to play the same veteran first-line role but only lasted 10 games, Lepine left, Galivan retired, Fox left, Kowalski and Werner missed time with injuries. Only one team wins the league every season and you need a lot of things to go right, regrettably it feels that the Panthers rarely give themselves the best chance they can. Since Ling when can you say the Panthers have had the best player in the league, aside from Sam Herr two years ago? When have they had the best goaltender? Even the best coach?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Nov 30, 2021 10:53:05 GMT
So what happened during the 2013 season? Why was that so different? Not having a go, just find it weird that that season was so different and obviously only a one off A combination of factors and everything going right is the short answer. Jordan Fox. The bold decision was taken to allow Danny Meyers to leave and Jonathan Weaver came in to replace him, who was the premier British D-man in the league but at the time this wasn't a hugely popular move in some quarters. Ling and Graham were superb, Ling was an actual first-line centre, something we have neglected more or less every season. We had superb secondary scoring from the likes of Francis, Galivan and Benedict, toughness from Wilson and Lepine and three Brits who scored 10+ goals. David Clarke was a still an elite goalscorer at this point too. When players went down with injury we brought in spares, Beauregard being an example of a guy who was just around the team in case of injury and was happy to play that role. Throw in outstanding goaltending and you've got a league winning team. The sad thing is they never built on the success. Myers left, although Farmer did come in mid-season. Ling was gone, Bob Wren was supposed to play the same veteran first-line role but only lasted 10 games, Lepine left, Galivan retired, Fox left, Kowalski and Werner missed time with injuries. Only one team wins the league every season and you need a lot of things to go right, regrettably it feels that the Panthers rarely give themselves the best chance they can. Since Ling when can you say the Panthers have had the best player in the league, aside from Sam Herr two years ago? When have they had the best goaltender? Even the best coach? Pretty much a perfectly balanced team not just a collection of bargain-basement signings with the carrot of a uni deal. And we did build on that success. The bank balance was built.
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Nov 30, 2021 10:57:07 GMT
messier1851 - Ling was left wing, Graham centred the line. Ling was elite, yes. He got the very best out of Graham.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 11:15:07 GMT
That 2013 team nearly wasn't as successful if Ling had signed in Sheffield.. finnerty flew over to Italy to watch him and they both couldn't agree contracts..the rest is in the history books...
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Post by messier1851 on Nov 30, 2021 11:47:52 GMT
messier1851 - Ling was left wing, Graham centred the line. Ling was elite, yes. He got the very best out of Graham. Ah yes of course.
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