|
Post by kievthegreat on Oct 7, 2019 13:41:26 GMT
It's been said a million times. While he makes money nothing will change. This argument doesn't always hold water.. so what you're saying any sports team which makes money doesn't care what happens on the playing surface then? and doesn't look to be the best then? As long as they are making profit or is this an exclusive rule to Blacky? Argue for either extreme and you just end up looking silly. The Panthers need to make money. If a sports team can't make money then it's a case of when, not if it will fail. Sugar daddies are all well and good, until the get bored. Go overboard the other way, you chase money at the expense of the sporting side, you run the risk of losing fans who feel cheated and in the long run, lose the profitability. The debate is about how far towards each extreme Panthers management are. I'd argue they are too far towards chasing profit and that eventually the chickens will come home to roost.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Oct 7, 2019 13:56:18 GMT
Yes that’s the point,nobody has any problem with Black making a profit and a good one too. The problem comes in that they could spend a whole lot more than they do but seem to choose not to hence the rosters of the big 4 this season. At the same time as not spending what they need to though Panthers seem to think the fans have endless amounts of cash and try their very best to screw every last penny from the fans. That’s the annoying bit,Panthers wanting every last penny from the fans whilst the club stack every last penny they can in their profit column !
|
|
Warren
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,467
|
Post by Warren on Oct 7, 2019 14:20:16 GMT
Yes that’s the point,nobody has any problem with Black making a profit and a good one too. The problem comes in that they could spend a whole lot more than they do but seem to choose not to hence the rosters of the big 4 this season. At the same time as not spending what they need to though Panthers seem to think the fans have endless amounts of cash and try their very best to screw every last penny from the fans. That’s the annoying bit,Panthers wanting every last penny from the fans whilst the club stack every last penny they can in their profit column ! I remember back in the heyday of the blaze, they had sponsors for everything (not been for a while so cant speak for now) If memory serves, they didn't seem to want every penny out of their fan base, they just wanted them there making noise and spending what they could. For me, NB could work his figures the other way... Last seasons profit - his take = this years budget. Finally, it could be worse. Have a heart for fans of the NFL team the Miami dolphins. they are making an active attempt to finish last this year. it is alleged that half the team have requested trades because Coaching and management have no interest in winning games.
|
|
Mozzy
Pat Casey
Cracking
Posts: 365
|
Post by Mozzy on Oct 7, 2019 15:46:48 GMT
This argument doesn't always hold water.. so what you're saying any sports team which makes money doesn't care what happens on the playing surface then? and doesn't look to be the best then? As long as they are making profit or is this an exclusive rule to Blacky? It does @pidge . Black seems to be happy with us just being a cash cow. Some other sports teams are dependent on success, others purely on survival. your counter argument doesn't hold water. Steelers fan base crave success but also winning the right way. they were successful under Matsos but played boring trap hockey and people stayed away. For me Panthers are in the situation that we will have more "pre night out" fans in the stands, purely from the rink location. This season with us not playing as many Saturday night games, might alter this, so we may see a dip in attendances (on average) especially if we are not playing well. This may drive NB to make alterations next year... he may realize that winning things = more fans. For me, the "rebuild" is possibly apt. If GD and TW meet the goals that NB has set them on this lower budget - (do well in Conti cup?) then next year they will get a bigger pot of money. Unfortunately I don't get down to your place for our games as often as I would like but I was surprised at how many people I saw walking down from town going to the game who were clearly dressed for a night out afterwards. I guess some of these would be those "regular" fans too but I'd imagine a fair few would be there to start their night out. I don't know how that works out with numbers, but having a city centre location must help attendances imo. Saw far more people not wearing hockey jerseys than I regularly do in Sheffield too. Sheffield is usually very "orange" on game night, people just there for the game rather than what's on offer afterwards. I guess, as somebody else has already noted, with you having a fair few more Sundays this year your crowds will be interesting based on this perception of a "night out".
|
|
Warren
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,467
|
Post by Warren on Oct 7, 2019 15:56:13 GMT
Sheffield is usually very "orange" on game night, people just there for the game rather than what's on offer afterwards. I've always hated the about the technicolor aspect of a Panthers Crowd. we don't even have "Black outs" or even "yellow outs" (Custard / Mustard /Gold if you must) where we try and band the fans togther. though i suppose i don't help by not wearing a Panthers shirt. I am vaguely helping by staying in black and vegas gold (Reebok era Penguins Shirt)
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Oct 7, 2019 19:52:12 GMT
It does @pidge . Black seems to be happy with us just being a cash cow. Some other sports teams are dependent on success, others purely on survival. your counter argument doesn't hold water. Steelers fan base crave success but also winning the right way. they were successful under Matsos but played boring trap hockey and people stayed away. For me Panthers are in the situation that we will have more "pre night out" fans in the stands, purely from the rink location. This season with us not playing as many Saturday night games, might alter this, so we may see a dip in attendances (on average) especially if we are not playing well. This may drive NB to make alterations next year... he may realize that winning things = more fans. For me, the "rebuild" is possibly apt. If GD and TW meet the goals that NB has set them on this lower budget - (do well in Conti cup?) then next year they will get a bigger pot of money. Unfortunately I don't get down to your place for our games as often as I would like but I was surprised at how many people I saw walking down from town going to the game who were clearly dressed for a night out afterwards. I guess some of these would be those "regular" fans too but I'd imagine a fair few would be there to start their night out. I don't know how that works out with numbers, but having a city centre location must help attendances imo. Saw far more people not wearing hockey jerseys than I regularly do in Sheffield too. Sheffield is usually very "orange" on game night, people just there for the game rather than what's on offer afterwards. I guess, as somebody else has already noted, with you having a fair few more Sundays this year your crowds will be interesting based on this perception of a "night out". I reckon the “night out brigade” come out in force for the Steelers games,that’s where the extra 1500 or so come from. But for a non Steelers game it’s much more the regular fans including some night out fans.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Oct 7, 2019 19:56:16 GMT
Sheffield is usually very "orange" on game night, people just there for the game rather than what's on offer afterwards. I've always hated the about the technicolor aspect of a Panthers Crowd. we don't even have "Black outs" or even "yellow outs" (Custard / Mustard /Gold if you must) where we try and band the fans togther. though i suppose i don't help by not wearing a Panthers shirt. I am vaguely helping by staying in black and vegas gold (Reebok era Penguins Shirt) I’ve always hated the multi colour crowd too. But that’s what you get when the team have so many different colour shirts,the only colour i can’t remember Panthers having is blue,but i wouldn’t be surprised if we’ve even had that sometime in the distant past. 🙄
|
|
oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
Posts: 1,111
|
Post by oldman on Oct 7, 2019 21:55:46 GMT
the 60th anniversary shirt is dark blue i still wear it
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,364
|
Post by iginla on Oct 7, 2019 23:11:56 GMT
the 60th anniversary shirt is dark blue i still wear it Good lord no. 🤣
|
|
|
Post by spik on Oct 8, 2019 7:46:19 GMT
the 60th anniversary shirt is dark blue i still wear it Good lord no. 🤣 The 60th shirt was black and white, something's been in the wash with it.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,243
|
Post by Yotes on Oct 8, 2019 10:03:07 GMT
Yeah I thought it was black, although I may not be thinking of the same one as Oldman is (white bands on the arms, round neck). Plus he owns one and I don't
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Oct 8, 2019 18:46:29 GMT
They made a right mess of the points tallies for this game. Looking at the highlights Hazeldine didn’t even touch the puck on the shift where Kelsall scored😂
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Oct 10, 2019 15:21:01 GMT
They made a right mess of the points tallies for this game. Looking at the highlights Hazeldine didn’t even touch the puck on the shift where Kelsall scored😂 Good point. Maybe he's related to Tony Hand? Farmer got an assist last year when he was sat on the bench, and had been for 30+ seconds.
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Oct 10, 2019 15:22:05 GMT
They made a right mess of the points tallies for this game. Looking at the highlights Hazeldine didn’t even touch the puck on the shift where Kelsall scored😂 Good point, should've been Quist if anyone I think. Maybe he's related to Tony Hand? Farmer got an assist last year when he was sat on the bench, and had been for 30+ seconds.
|
|
|
Post by spik on Oct 10, 2019 16:23:47 GMT
CARR has had 2 pims v Sheffield and 4 Pims v Glasgow yet has nought in his overall stats. It was 0 Pims in the Glasgow game then changed to 2 pim then 0 again...there must be a glitch in the system. As bad as the one where you send an email to advise and get no reply at all. Or they change what you mention and still don't give any thanks.
I'd prefer the changing of detail to a correct one and get no reply myself because at least it's put right.
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Oct 10, 2019 17:14:19 GMT
Good point, should've been Quist if anyone I think. Maybe he's related to Tony Hand? Farmer got an assist last year when he was sat on the bench, and had been for 30+ seconds. You could be right regards Hazeldine’s relations!😂Looking at the highlights It was Lepine who should have been given the 2nd assist for Kelsall’s goal. Also, it was Malmquist who got an assist on the 1st goal, not Connelly, and Bulmer never touched the puck for the second goal, yet he received an assist. Here’s a question that you might be able to answer Bob. Let’s imagine the gamesheet was correct, and Lepine was awarded the secondary assist. So, Lepine passed the puck to Golovkovs and he immediately went for a shift change, then we scored with a new D pairing on the ice. If Lepine had been awarded the assist, would he also receive a ‘plus’ or is it ignored?
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Oct 10, 2019 17:16:23 GMT
CARR has had 2 pims v Sheffield and 4 Pims v Glasgow yet has nought in his overall stats. It was 0 Pims in the Glasgow game then changed to 2 pim then 0 again...there must be a glitch in the system. As bad as the one where you send an email to advise and get no reply at all. Or they change what you mention and still don't give any thanks. I'd prefer the changing of detail to a correct one and get no reply myself because at least it's put right. Who do you contact with regards to statistical errors?
|
|
|
Post by spik on Oct 10, 2019 17:31:50 GMT
CARR has had 2 pims v Sheffield and 4 Pims v Glasgow yet has nought in his overall stats. It was 0 Pims in the Glasgow game then changed to 2 pim then 0 again...there must be a glitch in the system. As bad as the one where you send an email to advise and get no reply at all. Or they change what you mention and still don't give any thanks. I'd prefer the changing of detail to a correct one and get no reply myself because at least it's put right. Who do you contact with regards to statistical errors? Yes, who do I? Having previously received emails of a 'results service' I replied to those emails in order to help. But I have neither had a reply to say 'thanks', a 'we know and are on the case' nor 'get off our backs'...but have since, when asking of a reply to certain queries had, got NO reply or one of the Elite results emails. MMmm, I do hope that it was not because I was trying to help! Common practice in hockey I am afraid. Many statisticians I have contacted and all are fine people who also are querying the new esports on the OS. Unfortunately no communication to be had.
|
|
|
Post by spik on Oct 10, 2019 17:34:28 GMT
You could be right regards Hazeldine’s relations!😂Looking at the highlights It was Lepine who should have been given the 2nd assist for Kelsall’s goal. Also, it was Malmquist who got an assist on the 1st goal, not Connelly, and Bulmer never touched the puck for the second goal, yet he received an assist. Here’s a question that you might be able to answer Bob. Let’s imagine the gamesheet was correct, and Lepine was awarded the secondary assist. So, Lepine passed the puck to Golovkovs and he immediately went for a shift change, then we scored with a new D pairing on the ice. If Lepine had been awarded the assist, would he also receive a ‘plus’ or is it ignored? Surely given as a plus, in play of the eventual goal.
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Oct 10, 2019 17:39:18 GMT
You could be right regards Hazeldine’s relations!😂Looking at the highlights It was Lepine who should have been given the 2nd assist for Kelsall’s goal. Also, it was Malmquist who got an assist on the 1st goal, not Connelly, and Bulmer never touched the puck for the second goal, yet he received an assist. Here’s a question that you might be able to answer Bob. Let’s imagine the gamesheet was correct, and Lepine was awarded the secondary assist. So, Lepine passed the puck to Golovkovs and he immediately went for a shift change, then we scored with a new D pairing on the ice. If Lepine had been awarded the assist, would he also receive a ‘plus’ or is it ignored? Surely given as a plus, in play of the eventual goal. I honestly don’t know, it’s interesting though.
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Oct 10, 2019 17:40:37 GMT
Who do you contact with regards to statistical errors? Yes, who do I? Having previously received emails of a 'results service' I replied to those emails in order to help. But I have neither had a reply to say 'thanks', a 'we know and are on the case' nor 'get off our backs'...but have since, when asking of a reply to certain queries had, got NO reply or one of the Elite results emails. MMmm, I do hope that it was not because I was trying to help! Common practice in hockey I am afraid. Many statisticians I have contacted and all are fine people who also are querying the new esports on the OS. Unfortunately no communication to be had. I see, what was the email address you contacted?
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Oct 10, 2019 17:41:50 GMT
You could be right regards Hazeldine’s relations!😂Looking at the highlights It was Lepine who should have been given the 2nd assist for Kelsall’s goal. Also, it was Malmquist who got an assist on the 1st goal, not Connelly, and Bulmer never touched the puck for the second goal, yet he received an assist. Here’s a question that you might be able to answer Bob. Let’s imagine the gamesheet was correct, and Lepine was awarded the secondary assist. So, Lepine passed the puck to Golovkovs and he immediately went for a shift change, then we scored with a new D pairing on the ice. If Lepine had been awarded the assist, would he also receive a ‘plus’ or is it ignored? Agreed re Lepine. And Malmqvist. And Bulmer. I believe that GD speaks to the league regarding correcting any errors on gamesheets, but these haven't been changed yet, so looks like they stay. It happened a few times last year and has happened already this year, that a player gets an assist on a goal, when actually sat on the bench at the time the goal goes in. That being the case, whilst he receives an assist, he cannot receive a +, as there are (generally) only 5, and they go to the players on the ice at the second the goal is scored. Them's the breaks. It's sometimes not that easy though. You'd be amazed how many bloody goals are scored in the middle of changing the D pairing... Then you just have to make a judgment call. I generally go with if the replacing player is outside the notional box in front of the bench, no matter where the replaced player is, they get the +. Or -, for that matter. Good statting, mon brave.
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Oct 10, 2019 17:43:33 GMT
You could be right regards Hazeldine’s relations!😂Looking at the highlights It was Lepine who should have been given the 2nd assist for Kelsall’s goal. Also, it was Malmquist who got an assist on the 1st goal, not Connelly, and Bulmer never touched the puck for the second goal, yet he received an assist. Here’s a question that you might be able to answer Bob. Let’s imagine the gamesheet was correct, and Lepine was awarded the secondary assist. So, Lepine passed the puck to Golovkovs and he immediately went for a shift change, then we scored with a new D pairing on the ice. If Lepine had been awarded the assist, would he also receive a ‘plus’ or is it ignored? Surely given as a plus, in play of the eventual goal. See above, I don't, as that would mean a player receiving a + who wasn't on ice? But you can have an even strength assist without a +. I'm happy to be corrected though.
|
|
|
Post by spik on Oct 10, 2019 17:57:20 GMT
Yes, who do I? Having previously received emails of a 'results service' I replied to those emails in order to help. But I have neither had a reply to say 'thanks', a 'we know and are on the case' nor 'get off our backs'...but have since, when asking of a reply to certain queries had, got NO reply or one of the Elite results emails. MMmm, I do hope that it was not because I was trying to help! Common practice in hockey I am afraid. Many statisticians I have contacted and all are fine people who also are querying the new esports on the OS. Unfortunately no communication to be had. I see, what was the email address you contacted? media@eliteleague they have to be something close to the guys who put the show on the OS. Ronnie and Jim (R+J stats) did a fine job over the years, may still be doing this season. But overall the old system previous to this seemed better. However the esports detail is great bar omitting of some detail or inaccuracies. eg) 14/9/19 v Dundee CARR SOG and player stats tally at 34 (33 saves) but go to the game sheet and we have 35 (34 saves) . plus 'goalie changes' column I'd be interested to know how it works.
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Oct 10, 2019 17:58:31 GMT
You could be right regards Hazeldine’s relations!😂Looking at the highlights It was Lepine who should have been given the 2nd assist for Kelsall’s goal. Also, it was Malmquist who got an assist on the 1st goal, not Connelly, and Bulmer never touched the puck for the second goal, yet he received an assist. Here’s a question that you might be able to answer Bob. Let’s imagine the gamesheet was correct, and Lepine was awarded the secondary assist. So, Lepine passed the puck to Golovkovs and he immediately went for a shift change, then we scored with a new D pairing on the ice. If Lepine had been awarded the assist, would he also receive a ‘plus’ or is it ignored? Agreed re Lepine. And Malmqvist. And Bulmer. I believe that GD speaks to the league regarding correcting any errors on gamesheets, but these haven't been changed yet, so looks like they stay. It happened a few times last year and has happened already this year, that a player gets an assist on a goal, when actually sat on the bench at the time the goal goes in. That being the case, whilst he receives an assist, he cannot receive a +, as there are (generally) only 5, and they go to the players on the ice at the second the goal is scored. Them's the breaks. It's sometimes not that easy though. You'd be amazed how many bloody goals are scored in the middle of changing the D pairing... Then you just have to make a judgment call. I generally go with if the replacing player is outside the notional box in front of the bench, no matter where the replaced player is, they get the +. Or -, for that matter. Good statting, mon brave. Thanks for the explanation, I suppose it’s down to opinion but it’s far from straightforward so props to you for keeping record! I’m guessing Gui will be leaving it so Joe keeps his assist.
|
|