Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
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Post by Jord v4 on Jul 5, 2019 7:21:55 GMT
There's been a lot of talk about this recently ref. Panthers official website news over Farmer being under such a contract for next season so here's a better post/thread for what it is/does.
The EIHL protection contract prevents a player (Brit or import) from joining another EIHL team without the consent of the EIHL team owning the player for the duration of that contract. In theory it's the same as NHL teams owning a player's rights, the EIHL team holds the rights of the player for that league.
If the team chooses to release the player themselves then in theory the EIHL part is voided & they can join another EIHL team.
If either the player wants to move to another EIHL team or another EIHL team wants the player then then they have to pay the team owning the player for the EIHL rights. If the player is returning to the EIHL from another league while under an EIHL contract then that team holding the contract own his rights. If any other team wants that player or the player wants to go to another EIHL team then the interested team have to purchase the EIHL rights from the owning team.
So it doesn't matter where the player is playing currently, the EIHL contract for that season means he belongs to that team for the duration. Farmer for example is under Panthers EIHL rights for 2019/20. He cannot join another EIHL team for 2019/20 unless Panthers agree to it, if any team want Farmer & the Panthers agree to it then they would have to purchase the EIHL rights from Panthers.
There have been a few EIHL to EIHL moves in the past few years as examples, quite often the owning clubs aren't too happy about the moves happening.... I'm sure you can think of some if you recall twitter comments from the usual sources.
Whether or not all EIHL teams use these contracts I'm not sure.... but I susect they are, certainly for their higher valued players to stop them being poached from another EIHL team. Panthers certainly did in the past & almost certainly are still doing so now for multi year deals for Brits & imports.
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Post by pantherlee on Jul 5, 2019 8:12:28 GMT
This happened a few years ago i believe when Steelers paid the Caps for Ryan Hayes and Giants for David Rutherford
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 178
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Post by meadow on Jul 5, 2019 12:21:42 GMT
Interesting to know that the player rights policy is actually formal - I'd always thought that it was more of a gentlemans agreement between clubs that could be circumnavigated if financial compensation was involved (like the example pantherlee used and when shuff also acquired Neily back from MK last year)
I also remember there was a bit of drama when Shuff tried to sign Steve Simoes on a short term contract (that would include a panthers-steelers game...) after panthers had released him, from memory I think panthers claimed he was still on two weeks notice so technically couldn't be signed by another EIHL team.
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Post by cjones on Jul 5, 2019 12:30:40 GMT
I’m assuming the player would have to agree when signing such contract. The example for Riley would be different to this type of contract as he’s explained the option for both he and club was there to take up but he’s decided not to take the option and is free to join any club, including EIHL.
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Post by texpef on Jul 5, 2019 13:35:17 GMT
I’m assuming the player would have to agree when signing such contract. The example for Riley would be different to this type of contract as he’s explained the option for both he and club was there to take up but he’s decided not to take the option and is free to join any club, including EIHL. Hardly likely to come out and say I am breaking the contract as Cardiff are paying me more now is he.... to me this looks like chequebook hockey is live and well and now back in the first place it was seen in the UK.... As mentioned before contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on in the UK
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jul 5, 2019 13:37:50 GMT
I’m assuming the player would have to agree when signing such contract. The example for Riley would be different to this type of contract as he’s explained the option for both he and club was there to take up but he’s decided not to take the option and is free to join any club, including EIHL. Hardly likely to come out and say I am breaking the contract as Cardiff are paying me more now is he.... to me this looks like chequebook hockey is live and well and now back in the first place it was seen in the UK.... As mentioned before contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on in the UK Isn't it in all sports?
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Jul 5, 2019 14:50:09 GMT
Interesting to know that the player rights policy is actually formal - I'd always thought that it was more of a gentlemans agreement between clubs that could be circumnavigated if financial compensation was involved (like the example pantherlee used and when shuff also acquired Neily back from MK last year) I also remember there was a bit of drama when Shuff tried to sign Steve Simoes on a short term contract (that would include a panthers-steelers game...) after panthers had released him, from memory I think panthers claimed he was still on two weeks notice so technically couldn't be signed by another EIHL team. The two weeks notice is still in place. Any released EIHL player has to serve two weeks notice before appearing for another EIHL team.
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Jul 5, 2019 15:12:00 GMT
I’m assuming the player would have to agree when signing such contract. The example for Riley would be different to this type of contract as he’s explained the option for both he and club was there to take up but he’s decided not to take the option and is free to join any club, including EIHL. Hardly likely to come out and say I am breaking the contract as Cardiff are paying me more now is he.... to me this looks like chequebook hockey is live and well and now back in the first place it was seen in the UK.... As mentioned before contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on in the UK I think Mosey was under EIHL contract with Panthers or we had first refusal. Cardiff's offer for him blew his previous Panthers wage totally out of the water. Imagine Cardiff had to pay for his rights as well if under the Panthers contract still.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Jul 5, 2019 15:31:29 GMT
Hardly likely to come out and say I am breaking the contract as Cardiff are paying me more now is he.... to me this looks like chequebook hockey is live and well and now back in the first place it was seen in the UK.... As mentioned before contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on in the UK I think Mosey was under EIHL contract with Panthers or we had first refusal. Cardiff's offer for him blew his previous Panthers wage totally out of the water. Imagine Cardiff had to pay for his rights as well if under the Panthers contract still. And didn’t Mosey jump Panthers ship for Denmark after signing a contract to return a couple of years ago ?
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Post by pantherlee on Jul 5, 2019 15:50:53 GMT
I think Mosey was under EIHL contract with Panthers or we had first refusal. Cardiff's offer for him blew his previous Panthers wage totally out of the water. Imagine Cardiff had to pay for his rights as well if under the Panthers contract still. And didn’t Mosey jump Panthers ship for Denmark after signing a contract to return a couple of years ago ? No that was for Rockford
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Jul 5, 2019 15:52:07 GMT
I think Mosey was under EIHL contract with Panthers or we had first refusal. Cardiff's offer for him blew his previous Panthers wage totally out of the water. Imagine Cardiff had to pay for his rights as well if under the Panthers contract still. And didn’t Mosey jump Panthers ship for Denmark after signing a contract to return a couple of years ago ? Can't remember matey, just shows that these contracts don't mean too much though. Imagine Farmer wants to come back to the UK in December & another team offer him way more than Panthers.... Would you really exercise that right to say no or just take the payment & be mighty miffed about it all.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Jul 5, 2019 16:33:44 GMT
And didn’t Mosey jump Panthers ship for Denmark after signing a contract to return a couple of years ago ? Can't remember matey, just shows that these contracts don't mean too much though. Imagine Farmer wants to come back to the UK in December & another team offer him way more than Panthers.... Would you really exercise that right to say no or just take the payment & be mighty miffed about it all. Knowing Panthers they’d take the payment ! 🤣🤣🤣
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Jul 5, 2019 16:37:21 GMT
And didn’t Mosey jump Panthers ship for Denmark after signing a contract to return a couple of years ago ? No that was for Rockford You sure ? Still broke a contract though even if it was to the AHL. Farmer could go DEL for all we know,it shouldn’t matter where they’re going though.
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Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
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Post by Pies on Jul 5, 2019 17:32:46 GMT
You sure ? Still broke a contract though even if it was to the AHL. Farmer could go DEL for all we know,it shouldn’t matter where they’re going though. I think he broke a contract twice. One for Rockford and one for “Denmark” and then he came back
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Post by pantherlee on Jul 5, 2019 17:42:37 GMT
If my memory is anything to go by he had signed a two year deal with us before the Rockford opportunity came along and always said he would return to Panthers if things didn't work out which he honoured. The second time when he went to Denmark i thought he was a free agent. I could be wrong about the latter though
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DMS
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by DMS on Jul 5, 2019 18:01:23 GMT
You sure ? Still broke a contract though even if it was to the AHL. Farmer could go DEL for all we know,it shouldn’t matter where they’re going though. I think he broke a contract twice. One for Rockford and one for “Denmark” and then he came back Correct he reneged on a deal twice. Yet is held in the esteem of panthers legend in some eyes. I have no issue with a professional sports man maximising their earnings in their limited career but he is not worthy of the pedestal he is put on by many.
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Pies
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Reluctant Chief of ITK
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Post by Pies on Jul 5, 2019 18:23:40 GMT
I think he broke a contract twice. One for Rockford and one for “Denmark” and then he came back Correct he reneged on a deal twice. Yet is held in the esteem of panthers legend in some eyes. I have no issue with a professional sports man maximising their earnings in their limited career but he is not worthy of the pedestal he is put on by many. I agree. This club was always a means to an end for him. A safety net of you will. Showed his true colours very quickly. Some players I can respect but the second time was very bitter because we all knew he wanted to go to Cardiff but couldn’t and found a loop hole
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Post by wgray on Jul 5, 2019 20:17:19 GMT
Correct he reneged on a deal twice. Yet is held in the esteem of panthers legend in some eyes. I have no issue with a professional sports man maximising their earnings in their limited career but he is not worthy of the pedestal he is put on by many. I agree. This club was always a means to an end for him. A safety net of you will. Showed his true colours very quickly. Some players I can respect but the second time was very bitter because we all knew he wanted to go to Cardiff but couldn’t and found a loop hole Completely agree.
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Post by spik on Jul 5, 2019 21:01:29 GMT
Very interesting information and something we all are not aware of unlike the few on here who are very knowledgable.
I agree with this as it makes an agreement within a contract more concrete. Rightly so also.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Jul 5, 2019 21:53:11 GMT
Correct he reneged on a deal twice. Yet is held in the esteem of panthers legend in some eyes. I have no issue with a professional sports man maximising their earnings in their limited career but he is not worthy of the pedestal he is put on by many. I agree. This club was always a means to an end for him. A safety net of you will. Showed his true colours very quickly. Some players I can respect but the second time was very bitter because we all knew he wanted to go to Cardiff but couldn’t and found a loop hole Indeed he did. Do i recall that Mosey going to Denmark caused the EIHL contract to break,he only went there for a few games and came back ? Was that the idea all along just to get to Cardiff....and will Farmer do the same i wonder ?
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Jul 5, 2019 22:47:29 GMT
From what I know Cardiff had to pay Panthers for his EIHL rights. They also paid him very well, more than our highest earner at that time.
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Post by Carnell on Jul 8, 2019 7:15:12 GMT
I don't see what the issue is with players backing out of contracts, yes its annoying, but if a player doesn't want to be here, then they wont be putting the body on the line for a wage.
Every contract has to have an "out" clause, I know I have used it to move to a better job. The EIHL have a two week notice period, I know players will have other clauses, such as European release clauses, or if they get an offer back home then they can get out of the deal up to a certain date. From what I've been told, in the past, certain players have been signed on a multi year deal, with an option to go to another league, but they have to inform the club by a certain date to allow the club to find a suitable replacement. If this happens and they end up coming back, their EIHL contract is still in place should the club be able to honor it, if not, then the player is free to move around as suggested above.
The two week notice has worked to our advantage a number of times before. How many times have we cried out for the Panthers to sack this guy or for Player X to be released from his contract.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Jul 8, 2019 9:56:47 GMT
There seems to be another way out of a contract, which has been used in the past, whereby a player announces he has is retiring, or needs to leave for 'personal reasons', which presumably annuls his contract, and after the two weeks notice period suddenly signs for a club back home. I bring this up as Yann Sauve has just left Villacher for personal reasons, although I am in no way suggesting that there is an ulterior motive for his departure.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Jul 15, 2019 18:00:56 GMT
There seems to be another way out of a contract, which has been used in the past, whereby a player announces he has is retiring, or needs to leave for 'personal reasons', which presumably annuls his contract, and after the two weeks notice period suddenly signs for a club back home. I bring this up as Yann Sauve has just left Villacher for personal reasons, although I am in no way suggesting that there is an ulterior motive for his departure. Although he has just signed for Grenoble in France !
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Jul 19, 2019 17:42:11 GMT
Another example is Francis Beauvillier. Leaves Belfast after 20 games last year as his heart wasnt in Hockey any more, finishes the season in the lnah, and signs to play in Slovakia this season.
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