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Post by dreadface on Jun 22, 2019 13:17:22 GMT
Can Anyone who is better at interpreting stats than me see how his numbers stack up against Kwall? And any insight on how ECHL goalie stats tend to translate once they move over to the EIHL?
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meadow
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Post by meadow on Jun 22, 2019 13:59:24 GMT
Can Anyone who is better at interpreting stats than me see how his numbers stack up against Kwall? And any insight on how ECHL goalie stats tend to translate once they move over to the EIHL? Anything above 0.91 is considered 'good' in terms of save % stats (I'm ignoring GAA as its a team stat not necessarily a goalie one) - Carr has two ECHL seasons at.912 and .911 (pretty good) and three seasons at .903 .906 .909 (average). Kowalski as a comparison had four seasons at .915 .918 .923 and .918 and only one season under .91 (.906). So generally Kowalski has better numbers - but a lot of that could also be dependant on the general fortune of the teams they were on (ECHL teams are generally quite unstable as they have frequent call ups / demotions from the AHL etc). Just looking at other notable, purely paper optics between the two - Kowalski was a starter in the NCAA (as was Munson) whilst Carr was a starter in NCAA III (believe Boxill was in that division at one point too), and Kowalski also had plenty of AHL call ups whilst Carr hasn't, although, again, that could just be an organisational thing - injuries etc - as much as play-based.
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bobness
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Post by bobness on Jun 22, 2019 15:01:18 GMT
Tbh the Belfast goalie last year never had Brill stats before he rolled up in Scotland. You mean Tyler Beskorowany, 2014-15 DEL Goalie of the Year?
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Post by jd on Jun 22, 2019 15:30:12 GMT
Mr Kerry’s explanation for it seems to extend to “I thought it was funny”. So funny that his response has been deleted
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 15:44:20 GMT
Tbh the Belfast goalie last year never had Brill stats before he rolled up in Scotland. You mean Tyler Beskorowany, 2014-15 DEL Goalie of the Year? 5 years ago.. hardly current. Garnett had one impressive CV.. he didn't impress me !
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jun 22, 2019 16:12:24 GMT
You mean Tyler Beskorowany, 2014-15 DEL Goalie of the Year? 5 years ago.. hardly current. Garnett had one impressive CV.. he didn't impress me ! Maybe something to do with the crap shower of a team he had in front of him each year. Strange how a lot of players appear decent until they get to Nottingham innit ! 🤔🤣
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 16:20:43 GMT
5 years ago.. hardly current. Garnett had one impressive CV.. he didn't impress me ! Maybe something to do with the crap shower of a team he had in front of him each year. Strange how a lot of players appear decent until they get to Nottingham innit ! 🤔🤣 Certain situations it's the d in front but on some plays Garnett amongst others let some right howlers in whether its concentration or just his fitness whatever he was well past his sell by date. Some goalies stats get enhanced due to th quality of the d in front such as Laing at Sheffield back in 2003
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bobness
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Post by bobness on Jun 22, 2019 16:48:07 GMT
You mean Tyler Beskorowany, 2014-15 DEL Goalie of the Year? 5 years ago.. hardly current. Garnett had one impressive CV.. he didn't impress me ! You said “never”, not “not current”. And nothing about whether you were impressed. Or, as is mostly the case, not. You should definitely be in charge of recruitment. We'd have a great team then. Welcome to Nottingham, you have 3 shifts to impress me....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 17:31:25 GMT
😴😴.. back on subject I feel Carr will be just fine. Consistently good stats all his career.
Wallace has seen him first hand so will take his judgement over rabble what's on here
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Post by cooperphil156 on Jun 22, 2019 18:41:41 GMT
😴😴.. back on subject I feel Carr will be just fine. Consistently good stats all his career. Wallace has seen him first hand so will take his judgement over rabble what's on here The budget is not infinite and if he has unearthed a gem, it leaves more to be spent elsewhere. Yes yet again lets see how he performs, rather than trauling through stats and damning.
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Pies
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Post by Pies on Jun 22, 2019 19:58:39 GMT
I was going to say I think we all agree the PR was a disaster but let’s move on to discuss the merits of our new starter.
The position of goalie at our club has always seemed to be the one fans most endear to. I hope Kevin becomes the next one to take that throne and make it his own. We’ve always had a knack of getting great goal tending but then letting it down with the defence in front. I’m hoping Wallace and Doucet correct that correct.
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Post by spik on Jun 23, 2019 8:20:39 GMT
I guess it would be a bit of news that they could have put out to show how they were communicating with fans. Someone the fans knew and it was a good chance to supplement news that was probably just a bore fest for some on sponsorship's etc.. Not seen a programme for ages, but a good chance to thank someone they earmarked on a job and be more transparent I assume. I'm all for criticising the Panthers when it's deserved & my god yesterday deserves some proper criticism but having the hump over not being informed about a background person leaving the fold seems rather excessive. I've no hump over this myself and probably many others haven't too. Not read all the moans as I don't use twitter etc. , so not sure whats being said. Just think it's an opportunity to fill space, as I know how organisations say they don't know what to pen at times, looking for material to put in communication forms like a prog etc. I was asked once to do something for the club programme as they were short on ideas.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jun 23, 2019 14:58:55 GMT
Taylor or no Taylor, Carr looks bang average and you can’t really tart it up any more.
He won’t be the best in the league and he won’t be the worst. It’s a stereotypical Panthers signing.
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Post by Bagheera on Jun 23, 2019 17:20:50 GMT
Taylor or no Taylor, Carr looks bang average and you can’t really tart it up any more. He won’t be the best in the league and he won’t be the worst. It’s a stereotypical Panthers signing. I've been trying to fight off this feeling. I'm trying to look for positives which there absoloutly are some. The fact Wallace has played with him is the big one. But if you do go just off his CV he is exactly that, average. I do like the philosophy some started to use on here the last few years... Would he get in Cardiff/Belfasts team? The simple answer to that is no. Tbh it's why I didn't comment on the previous signing too. Doesn't look a bad player, but again I cant imagine Cardiff signing him. I doubt he'd get in their team never mind top 6. Loads of signings still to make so it could look very different, but with what we have so far Im concerned. Last year we were in a similar boat. As every signing passed everybody said "well the last 4/3/2/1 need to be real quality" it never really happened. Having said that I still stand by what I said the othet day. We dont really know until we see them play and everybody deserves a chance. I wont write anybody off until we are a few months into the season. And! I've never wanted anybody to prove me wrong more than Carr after the way Panthers handled the announcement. 🤞
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jun 23, 2019 17:54:29 GMT
Taylor or no Taylor, Carr looks bang average and you can’t really tart it up any more. He won’t be the best in the league and he won’t be the worst. And you'd lay money on that, would you? Or you have special inside knowledge? Maybe you've seen him play a load of games? Lies, damned lies and statistics. Stats are little more than a very inaccurate guide... for a start, you simply cannot use the environment of a different team in a different league to accurately predict what a player will do for us over here. And as others have correctly said... especially with a netminder, it's not just about him... it's the defensive unit in front of him. You could have an absolutely stellar netminder with rattlesnake-fast reactions and upper-end AHL skills, and if he's got a bunch of clueless pylons in front of him - or if, for whatever reason, he can't/won't work well with the D - then over the long haul of the regular season, he's likely to be overtaken by a mid-level competent netminder who is part of a tight defensive unit. It's the essence of teamwork... the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Now I (like virtually everyone else) was massively underwhelmed by Gui Lepine last season - although right near the end of it he did seem to be picking up a bit - so sadly there is a noticeable chance of having at least one weak link in the blueline corps. But if Doucet can recruit some stalwarts and Wallace can coach them all (including Lepine) into a tight unit... then who knows? Maybe Carr can slot in nicely. Is it? According to the most vocal types around here, a "stereotypical Panthers signing" is an over-the-hill 'veteran' with a great CV who comes over here and does sod-all, is just used by the Panthers as a PR coup, and allegedly demonstrates that the club have no ambition, no foresight, etc etc. I don't see how Carr fits into any of those categories...
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jun 23, 2019 19:16:17 GMT
Taylor or no Taylor, Carr looks bang average and you can’t really tart it up any more. He won’t be the best in the league and he won’t be the worst. And you'd lay money on that, would you? Or you have special inside knowledge? Maybe you've seen him play a load of games? Lies, damned lies and statistics. Stats are little more than a very inaccurate guide... for a start, you simply cannot use the environment of a different team in a different league to accurately predict what a player will do for us over here. And as others have correctly said... especially with a netminder, it's not just about him... it's the defensive unit in front of him. You could have an absolutely stellar netminder with rattlesnake-fast reactions and upper-end AHL skills, and if he's got a bunch of clueless pylons in front of him - or if, for whatever reason, he can't/won't work well with the D - then over the long haul of the regular season, he's likely to be overtaken by a mid-level competent netminder who is part of a tight defensive unit. It's the essence of teamwork... the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Now I (like virtually everyone else) was massively underwhelmed by Gui Lepine last season - although right near the end of it he did seem to be picking up a bit - so sadly there is a noticeable chance of having at least one weak link in the blueline corps. But if Doucet can recruit some stalwarts and Wallace can coach them all (including Lepine) into a tight unit... then who knows? Maybe Carr can slot in nicely. Is it? According to the most vocal types around here, a "stereotypical Panthers signing" is an over-the-hill 'veteran' with a great CV who comes over here and does sod-all, is just used by the Panthers as a PR coup, and allegedly demonstrates that the club have no ambition, no foresight, etc etc. I don't see how Carr fits into any of those categories... He has, in every league he’s played in, been a middle of the road keeper. He won’t be the best keeper in the league and he won’t be the worst. There are many ways to dissect it further but for me (and this is my opinion) that Panthers don’t sign the best players coming to the league and they don’t sign the worst. That’s why Panthers are rarely the best team in the league and never the worst. The “over-the-hill veteran” as you mention is a common signing for Panthers but at a rate of one or two a year, hardly the stereotype.
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Post by spik on Jun 23, 2019 19:33:14 GMT
Hoping that the signings are not just 'mates' brought into the team.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jun 23, 2019 19:37:13 GMT
Hoping that the signings are not just 'mates' brought into the team. Swings both ways with mates. Best signing of mates I can remember was Cruikshank bringing over Boynton (who in turn brought with him Moran). Then you have Lawrence bringing Carter as the antithesis.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jun 23, 2019 19:46:34 GMT
Is it? According to the most vocal types around here, a "stereotypical Panthers signing" is an over-the-hill 'veteran' with a great CV who comes over here and does sod-all, is just used by the Panthers as a PR coup, and allegedly demonstrates that the club have no ambition, no foresight, etc etc. That's the stereotypical Panthers signing in December, when it's all gone mammaries skywards I can see where Kovy is coming from, we only have the CV to go by, and it's ok. He's played to an ok level, and presumably people who are far better at judging hockey talent than us haven't felt the need to promote him higher than that so far. We all hope that he turns out to be our next Kowalski, and has an equally long and successful stay though.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jun 23, 2019 20:07:59 GMT
Is it? According to the most vocal types around here, a "stereotypical Panthers signing" is an over-the-hill 'veteran' with a great CV who comes over here and does sod-all, is just used by the Panthers as a PR coup, and allegedly demonstrates that the club have no ambition, no foresight, etc etc. That's the stereotypical Panthers signing in December, when it's all gone mammaries skywards I can see where Kovy is coming from, we only have the CV to go by, and it's ok. He's played to an ok level, and presumably people who are far better at judging hockey talent than us haven't felt the need to promote him higher than that so far. We all hope that he turns out to be our next Kowalski, and has an equally long and successful stay though. His stats over a very similar number of ECHL games are slightly under par when compared to another goalie we had previously......Davis Parley. 🤔
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 20:26:07 GMT
Carr has far more consistent stats than Parley! DP had a 88% SA in 6 games in the echl for season.
They dont compare at all. Like I said I ll take Tim's judgement on carr having known him and PLAYED with him over anything I see on here thanks
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jun 23, 2019 20:35:10 GMT
Carr has far more consistent stats than Parley! DP had a 88% SA in 6 games in the echl for season. They dont compare at all. Like I said I ll take Tim's judgement on carr having known him and PLAYED with him over anything I see on here thanks I suggest you take another look,because what you’ve done there is pick only SIX games out of about 250 played in the ECHL. But whilst Carr’s are slightly more consistent in the 90.?’s Parleys are overall consistently better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 20:46:53 GMT
No they are not.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jun 23, 2019 21:25:01 GMT
Well I don’t see how you think that Carr’s stats are better than Parleys as they have both played 6 or 7 ECHL seasons both over a very similar 200 plus games. Carr saves % .90 x 4 .91 x 2 Parley saves % .88 x 1 (only 6 games) .90 x 2 .91 x 2 .92 x 2
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jun 23, 2019 22:14:08 GMT
Is it? According to the most vocal types around here, a "stereotypical Panthers signing" is an over-the-hill 'veteran' with a great CV who comes over here and does sod-all, is just used by the Panthers as a PR coup, and allegedly demonstrates that the club have no ambition, no foresight, etc etc. That's the stereotypical Panthers signing in December, when it's all gone mammaries skywards Yeah, fair point... We only have the CV to go by... ... my point precisely. Stats from previous season with different teams in other leagues... they are a very poor guide. Less so perhaps with forwards, but poor with D-men and especially poor with netminders. The further back you get in player positions towards your own goal, the more your stats depend upon other people. We've all seen better netminders dragged down by ineffective defences, and dodgier netminders bailed out by a D that is tight and gets on with the job of covering for him. That's a dangerous trap to fall into... to assume that a player is at a particular level because he 'belongs' there. Maybe he does... and maybe he doesn't. A change of scenery, of tactics, of team style, of league environment... all of these can have massive changes on a player's performances. What if he's just not had the right opportunity yet? Or to look at it another way... say you have 100 netminders available, but you only need 20. The top 10 have save% stats of over .95, the next 10 are at .93 to .95. So you take them, don't you? What about if the average of the 100 is 0.90, and you've got a netminder at 0.925... he's noticeably better than 'OK' by the league standards, but you don't take him. Have people not felt the need to promote him because he's only 'OK', or because he's much better than OK but has just been pipped to the post? Absolutely no arguments there...
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