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Post by The Flying Shirt on Aug 22, 2019 6:42:51 GMT
Arena: Mr Black, the set time period is up and it’s time to re-negotiate the arena fee for the season...
NB: Hmmm... Why don’t we keep the arena fee the same and you keep the ‘facility fee’ running and that way you actually end up in front.
Arena: Absolutely genius Mr Black. Why didn’t we think of that!
Vigorous shaking of hands and smiles all around
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Joe
Lorne Smith
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Post by Joe on Aug 22, 2019 8:31:19 GMT
I would have thought it’d be obvious, to maintain and improve the facility The NIC should be doing that themselves without charging the fans. Do Notts Forest or Notts CC charge a facility fee to upkeep the City Ground or Trent Bridge. No but that’s because they can afford it whereas the arena can’t
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Aug 22, 2019 10:54:54 GMT
The NIC should be doing that themselves without charging the fans. Do Notts Forest or Notts CC charge a facility fee to upkeep the City Ground or Trent Bridge. No but that’s because they can afford it whereas the arena can’t Mmmm That’s not really a valid reason is it. Some people struggle to afford a Panthers game ticket, but if they asked the arena or Mr Black for £1 or so off every game what do you think he’d say ! 🙄
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Post by kievthegreat on Aug 22, 2019 10:58:33 GMT
No but that’s because they can afford it whereas the arena can’t Mmmm That’s not really a valid reason is it. Some people struggle to afford a Panthers game ticket, but if they asked the arena or Mr Black for £1 or so off every game what do you think he’d say ! 🙄 It's a way arenas can bring in funds without impacting the rents they charge to promoters (like Panthers and muscians) so stay attractive. Obvioulsy the cost just gets passed onto the paying customer instead though.
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Aug 23, 2019 6:12:46 GMT
Mmmm That’s not really a valid reason is it. Some people struggle to afford a Panthers game ticket, but if they asked the arena or Mr Black for £1 or so off every game what do you think he’d say ! 🙄 It's a way arenas can bring in funds without impacting the rents they charge to promoters (like Panthers and muscians) so stay attractive. Obvioulsy the cost just gets passed onto the paying customer instead though. I’m sure that’s correct, but I do feel it’s a very poor business model and just serves to alienate the paying public. Imagine if Tesco were to impose a fee every time you shopped, so they could “improve your shopping experience in the future” - if it wasn’t so annoying, it would be laughable.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 7:25:00 GMT
The facilities fee is nothing new.
North America introduced the fee several years ago in NY hotels (supposedly to keep facility up to date), also in Las vegas with a resort fee.
In UK, several arenas charge a facilities fee (Liverpool M&S Bank Arena included in ticket cost and Newcastle Utilita Arena £1.30 per ticket) plus Liverpool also charge a Fulfilment fee of £2.55 per order.
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Aug 23, 2019 7:48:59 GMT
The facilities fee is nothing new. North America introduced the fee several years ago in NY hotels (supposedly to keep facility up to date), also in Las vegas with a resort fee. In UK, several arenas charge a facilities fee (Liverpool M&S Bank Arena included in ticket cost and Newcastle Utilita Arena £1.30 per ticket) plus Liverpool also charge a Fulfilment fee of £2.55 per order. Doesn’t make it any less annoying.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 7:57:28 GMT
Agreed, but it seems most arenas are charging it. Just checked Hull, Sheffield DSA, MEN Arena , O2 and Belfast are charging a facility fee. So not just Nottingham.
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Optic
Corey Neilson
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Post by Optic on Aug 23, 2019 8:02:17 GMT
If people can't afford the extra £ or so they really shouldn't be going to events for their entertainment.
If it improves my time there I'm more than happy, the new scoreboard is excellent and whatever they improve next year will be worth it
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Aug 23, 2019 8:56:54 GMT
People will only ever go to an event if they can afford it and I've no problem with that, but in my opinion the principle stinks, as it implies that anyone who is happy to pay the arena fee to help pay for future improvements should also be happy to pay:
a "shopping fee" each and every time they use a supermarket or local store a "talk fee" to their mobile phone provider each time they use or renew their contract a "swimming fee" each time they use their local swimming pool a "fast food fee" each time they eat at Mcdonald's of KFC a "fitness fee" each time they use their gym, the list goes on -
I know some people have no problem with paying the arena fee, but would they all be happy to also pay the above fees - and more!!
As a concept it stinks
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Aug 23, 2019 9:43:06 GMT
whatever they improve next year will be worth it Even if it's the profit/loss? I'd rather they bundled this into the overall ticket cost to begin with, so the ST holders could feel the love too
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Joe
Lorne Smith
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Post by Joe on Aug 23, 2019 9:47:09 GMT
People will only ever go to an event if they can afford it and I've no problem with that, but in my opinion the principle stinks, as it implies that anyone who is happy to pay the arena fee to help pay for future improvements should also be happy to pay: a "shopping fee" each and every time they use a supermarket or local store a "talk fee" to their mobile phone provider each time they use or renew their contract a "swimming fee" each time they use their local swimming pool a "fast food fee" each time they eat at Mcdonald's of KFC a "fitness fee" each time they use their gym, the list goes on - I know some people have no problem with paying the arena fee, but would they all be happy to also pay the above fees - and more!! As a concept it stinks if there was no facility fee the arena would just charge more for rent at which point Panthers would increase the ticket price and you’d pay for it that way. The simple fact is if a business can not afford to upgrade their facilities they will either introduce a facility fee or increase prices elsewhere so either way whether you know it or not you’ll be paying a facility fee
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Aug 23, 2019 10:14:50 GMT
Not entirely the same thing though is it.
On one hand the business (NIC) realises they don't make enough money to keep their only asset up to date, so increase the cost for their customers - the Panthers' rent in this case - to cover this. The customer then either wears that (lols), or passes that on to their end customers - all of them, presumably - because a ticket actually needs to cost more than it does, apparently.
The other way the tenant gets let off, can pretend they're keeping prices the same, makes them look good, and (in this case) only some of the customers get it in the wallet. In other words, what TFS said earlier.
28 facilities fees would up every season ticket by about 40 quid a year, I wonder if the prices had all been bumped by that much everyone would just have accepted it, for the common good?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 10:40:26 GMT
I seem to recall something a while back, not Panthers related. I think it has something to do with taxation for the Landlord. Let me explain. Or as I recall;
Panthers pay a rental fee to the arena. I don't think they can claim any tax rebates on stadium improvement, as they rent off the Arena. Thus the arena has to pay for maintenance, which is expected. However, if business rates increase, then this is unlikely to be passed on to the renter (Panthers or bands etc), as they need to be as competitive as possible, so this is added as an extra as it attracts a different taxation level. Then the additional security checks were introduced, which Panthers or bands would not want to pay for, so the arena has to pay for equipment/training etc (again this can be taxed differently to turnover). Improvements to bars and restaurants are also classed as above, and the renting companies do not care to contribute.
In a nutshell, Panthers or other renters want a low as possible cost to rent. The arena sells the space and has a rental turnover. Any additional upkeep (rates increases, utility costs increases, security or improvements) are counted differently, thus the arena charges the punter separately, and it effects the asset of the arena only.
I think I have explained this OK, but I'm sure there are some that can correct me on this if wrong.
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Aug 23, 2019 11:03:30 GMT
For any business, in any sector to be successful it needs to do a number of things, including amongst other things, make a profit, keep their customers happy, provide value for money, invest in the future and hopefully have a unique selling point.
According to some on this forum the NIC do not make a profit? So immediately the business is not performing well.
Do they keep their customers happy, here's the rub, their immediate customer in this case, is the Panthers organisation, so to keep them happy they look like they have bypassed Panthers with any price increase and instead gone directly to the Panthers customer (i.e. you and me) and hit us with price increases under the pretext of looking to improve the match night experience in the future.
It is only because they have a monopoly on hockey that they can do this. A supermarket would not get away with imposing a "shopping fee" on their customers, because quite rightly their customers would say "sod that" and go and shop elsewhere.
So if the NIC has decided that it needs to invest in "Their" business to maintain it's longer term viability, then instead of going directly to their customer's customer (i.e you and me) to rise the cash they require; they should do like any other business and look at their cost structure / operating efficiencies, look at where they can increase prices (What option would Panthers really have if their rent at the NIC was to increase? they would hopefully look to absorb the increase through their own operating efficiencies and/or pass on a proportion of the increase to you and me).
And, if the NIC felt that any cost saving and price increases were still not enough to operate into the future successfully, then they should look to obtain investment from shareholders / bank loans.
NIC bankers - that's you and me then.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Aug 23, 2019 15:21:16 GMT
For any business, in any sector to be successful it needs to do a number of things, including amongst other things, make a profit, keep their customers happy, provide value for money, invest in the future and hopefully have a unique selling point. According to some on this forum the NIC do not make a profit? So immediately the business is not performing well. Do they keep their customers happy, here's the rub, their immediate customer in this case, is the Panthers organisation, so to keep them happy they look like they have bypassed Panthers with any price increase and instead gone directly to the Panthers customer (i.e. you and me) and hit us with price increases under the pretext of looking to improve the match night experience in the future. It is only because they have a monopoly on hockey that they can do this. A supermarket would not get away with imposing a "shopping fee" on their customers, because quite rightly their customers would say "sod that" and go and shop elsewhere. So if the NIC has decided that it needs to invest in "Their" business to maintain it's longer term viability, then instead of going directly to their customer's customer (i.e you and me) to rise the cash they require; they should do like any other business and look at their cost structure / operating efficiencies, look at where they can increase prices (What option would Panthers really have if their rent at the NIC was to increase? they would hopefully look to absorb the increase through their own operating efficiencies and/or pass on a proportion of the increase to you and me). And, if the NIC felt that any cost saving and price increases were still not enough to operate into the future successfully, then they should look to obtain investment from shareholders / bank loans. NIC bankers - that's you and me then. Spot on. Whatever happened to investing some of your profits back into your own business,that’s what virtually every other business does. When i ran my own company if we needed a new computer or a new van etc we used money from within the company coffers to buy one,we didn’t add a levy onto every customer to pay for it. If the NIC aren’t making a profit then they have a problem and need to rethink their business model.
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Post by wgray on Aug 23, 2019 15:22:59 GMT
Could it not be a case of the arena changing the club more rent as well as imposing a facility fee on the non-ST fans?
I wonder if the facility will fee be introduced to season ticket holders next season...
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 23, 2019 15:30:53 GMT
Do they still charge a “booking fee” too ?
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 23, 2019 15:45:39 GMT
Do they still charge a “booking fee” too ? Not for Panthers games, they got scrapped... under that name anyway. This 'facilities fee' is basically the same thing, just with a fresh coat of paint.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 7:48:12 GMT
Comparing the NIC to Tesco is the most ridiculous thing ever ! Until the NIC turns over £800m a year then dont moan that the arena needs to raise more money as quite frankly they are skint
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Aug 24, 2019 8:14:04 GMT
Comparing the NIC to Tesco is the most ridiculous thing ever ! Until the NIC turns over £800m a year then dont moan that the arena needs to raise more money as quite frankly they are skint I’m not moaning that the arena needs to raise money, just the way they go about it. Some may be happy to pay the fee, I personally feel the concept is a poor one, which I highlighted with the examples of the “shopping fee”, the “fitness fee”, etc. in previous posts as it does tend to alienate many punters. Do I want to see the arena go bust, of course not, but I would like to see their business model to be - well, more “business like” and less alienating.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Aug 24, 2019 8:47:47 GMT
I could be wrong but doesn’t every arena charge a service fee? I know the O2 does
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Aug 24, 2019 11:23:20 GMT
I could be wrong but doesn’t every arena charge a service fee? I know the O2 does As I recently found out, every midge / mosquito loves to take chunks out of you and so also are very annoying!
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puckit
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 186
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Post by puckit on Aug 25, 2019 8:24:36 GMT
Getting back to the scoreboard, I went last night for the first time since the new jumbotron has been installed and it’s very impressive. However, it’s use wasn’t great as for the most part it was like the old board; a blank black screen which only displayed penalties during play if there were any. Obviously the replays are a useful addition and the picture quality is light years better than the old one but do you think they will screen the game live during play like Sheffield and most other pro clubs with fancy jumbotrons? I’m probably getting ahead of myself here but it would be useful if they could change the camera angle for when the puck is against the boards for obstructed fans.
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BigLad
David Clarke
TWITTER: @AntMJ11
Posts: 3,585
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Post by BigLad on Aug 25, 2019 10:52:32 GMT
Scoreboard is very impressive. It's going to take a few months for them to learn how to get the most out of it though.
What we have now compared to what it will be like for POFW will be much different.
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