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Brits
Jun 10, 2019 14:00:51 GMT
Post by humbucker on Jun 10, 2019 14:00:51 GMT
A positive link at this early stage of a players career in hockey proved positive in the past and could do so again. One of the problems that has occurred on occasions is a young hopeful being lured away by teams before they are ready for that all important move and a dialogue between the Panthers and the Lions could prove helpful. I have known of players with great potential being attracted by the attention they receive from teams at a higher level only to see their hopes dashed. The appropriate level of nurturing and good guidance/advice for an up and coming player is essential. There should also be some recognition of the amount of work that is put into a player before they actually arrive on the senior hockey circuit radar because in the past that important element, supplied by volunteers, has to a great extent been overlooked or dismissed.It has to be remembered that the player being moved on to improve and strengthen did not arrive at that point ready made, it took a lot of unpaid man/woman hours running into years to achieve that point. On so many occasions it has appeared to me to be, in Nottingham, Corey's/Dampier's, or in other clubs their senior coaches that developed a particular player when in fact they provided the finishing school for what is thought to be by those, outside of the narrow hockey fraternity, as totally their protege. The truth of the matter is totally different and does annoy those unrecognised further down the pecking order. I do find myself somewhat in agreement with kievthegreat but with the player moving, but at the right time to avoid some of the traumas that can occur. There would need to be, as a priority, real oversight by the Head Coach of any player moving on to improve for the good of the club in the long term.
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iginla
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Jun 10, 2019 14:30:44 GMT
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Post by iginla on Jun 10, 2019 14:30:44 GMT
A positive link at this early stage of a players career in hockey proved positive in the past and could do so again. One of the problems that has occurred on occasions is a young hopeful being lured away by teams before they are ready for that all important move and a dialogue between the Panthers and the Lions could prove helpful. I have known of players with great potential being attracted by the attention they receive from teams at a higher level only to see their hopes dashed. The appropriate level of nurturing and good guidance/advice for an up and coming player is essential. There should also be some recognition of the amount of work that is put into a player before they actually arrive on the senior hockey circuit radar because in the past that important element, supplied by volunteers, has to a great extent been overlooked or dismissed.It has to be remembered that the player being moved on to improve and strengthen did not arrive at that point ready made, it took a lot of unpaid man/woman hours running into years to achieve that point. On so many occasions it has appeared to me to be, in Nottingham, Corey's/Dampier's, or in other clubs their senior coaches that developed a particular player when in fact they provided the finishing school for what is thought to be by those, outside of the narrow hockey fraternity, as totally their protege. The truth of the matter is totally different and does annoy those unrecognised further down the pecking order. I do find myself somewhat in agreement with kievthegreat but with the player moving, but at the right time to avoid some of the traumas that can occur. There would need to be, as a priority, real oversight by the Head Coach of any player moving on to improve for the good of the club in the long term. Well as I see it creating links is a job for Doucet. After all he’s going to have plenty of time on his hands, because what exactly is he going to do once he’s recruited the Panthers squad ? He’s going to watch training and the games and then what.....sit scratching his backside ?
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Brits
Jun 10, 2019 14:51:18 GMT
Post by humbucker on Jun 10, 2019 14:51:18 GMT
Hi iginla. A somewhat perhaps jaundiced view of Mr Doucet's role whereas I view it as an opportunity to turn back the clock and get the Panthers back into looking to the future by having some time perhaps to take an interest and to focus on some local development. Opening a pathway is no mean feat but it could prove quite profitable in the long term. I am hoping that he will be itching to get in there rather than scratching around elsewhere outside of the local junior set up here in Nottingham. Best facilities for what should be the best set up in the UK in my humble opinion.
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Brits
Jun 10, 2019 14:51:18 GMT
Post by The Flying Shirt on Jun 10, 2019 14:51:18 GMT
A positive link at this early stage of a players career in hockey proved positive in the past and could do so again. One of the problems that has occurred on occasions is a young hopeful being lured away by teams before they are ready for that all important move and a dialogue between the Panthers and the Lions could prove helpful. I have known of players with great potential being attracted by the attention they receive from teams at a higher level only to see their hopes dashed. The appropriate level of nurturing and good guidance/advice for an up and coming player is essential. There should also be some recognition of the amount of work that is put into a player before they actually arrive on the senior hockey circuit radar because in the past that important element, supplied by volunteers, has to a great extent been overlooked or dismissed.It has to be remembered that the player being moved on to improve and strengthen did not arrive at that point ready made, it took a lot of unpaid man/woman hours running into years to achieve that point. On so many occasions it has appeared to me to be, in Nottingham, Corey's/Dampier's, or in other clubs their senior coaches that developed a particular player when in fact they provided the finishing school for what is thought to be by those, outside of the narrow hockey fraternity, as totally their protege. The truth of the matter is totally different and does annoy those unrecognised further down the pecking order. I do find myself somewhat in agreement with kievthegreat but with the player moving, but at the right time to avoid some of the traumas that can occur. There would need to be, as a priority, real oversight by the Head Coach of any player moving on to improve for the good of the club in the long term. Well as I see it creating links is a job for Doucet. After all he’s going to have plenty of time on his hands, because what exactly is he going to do once he’s recruited the Panthers squad ? He’s going to watch training and the games and then what.....sit scratching his backside ? Was thinking that myself. The only thing is that if the season starts to go down the pan (November as we know it) then there are two of them to get it in the neck and I can't see Doucet sitting back and just selling the "good seats still available" crap.
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iginla
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Jun 10, 2019 15:17:10 GMT
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Post by iginla on Jun 10, 2019 15:17:10 GMT
Hi iginla. A somewhat perhaps jaundiced view of Mr Doucet's role whereas I view it as an opportunity to turn back the clock and get the Panthers back into looking to the future by having some time perhaps to take an interest and to focus on some local development. Opening a pathway is no mean feat but it could prove quite profitable in the long term. I am hoping that he will be itching to get in there rather than scratching around elsewhere outside of the local junior set up here in Nottingham. Best facilities for what should be the best set up in the UK in my humble opinion. I agree he should be saying to Panthers this is what I’m going to do,create a path and a structure with the Lions etc,but I bet they won’t go with it. Plenty of people were over the moon we got a DOH but nobody knows what he’s going to do for seven months. In opinion they should of spent the £50k or whatever Doucet’s total package cost on the squad through better quality players. Seriously,what is he going to do ?
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Joe
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Jun 10, 2019 15:28:29 GMT
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Post by Joe on Jun 10, 2019 15:28:29 GMT
Hi iginla. A somewhat perhaps jaundiced view of Mr Doucet's role whereas I view it as an opportunity to turn back the clock and get the Panthers back into looking to the future by having some time perhaps to take an interest and to focus on some local development. Opening a pathway is no mean feat but it could prove quite profitable in the long term. I am hoping that he will be itching to get in there rather than scratching around elsewhere outside of the local junior set up here in Nottingham. Best facilities for what should be the best set up in the UK in my humble opinion. I agree he should be saying to Panthers this is what I’m going to do,create a path and a structure with the Lions etc,but I bet they won’t go with it. Plenty of people were over the moon we got a DOH but nobody knows what he’s going to do for seven months. In opinion they should of spent the £50k or whatever Doucet’s total package cost on the squad through better quality players. Seriously,what is he going to do ? Why don’t you wait to see what he does through the season instead of just assuming he won’t be doing anything and how do you know Doucet’s wage is coming out of the wage budget?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 15:47:54 GMT
“We need change, we need change”
Change happens
“This isn’t the right sort of change”
...
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Brits
Jun 10, 2019 16:11:32 GMT
Post by humbucker on Jun 10, 2019 16:11:32 GMT
There has been a reluctance if not an almost antipathy regarding any sort of assistance towards a proper development pathway on part of the Panthers and I can understand that the organisation is indeed a separate entity but some link could prove a winning partnership in the long term. Even the most tenuous link and interest in the up and coming next generation of players might be enough to show the youngsters that the Panthers do not just want them as ex players paying to watch, but participating in the sport they love. The juniors must love the sport because they certainly pay enough out, or their parents do, in the sincere hope that someone just might be interested in their development/progress. Mr Doucet has a job to do for those that pay his wages and that is totally understandable but the odd visit to see and discuss the junior hockey programme might be well within the time he has available outside of the Panthers. Vain hope, I hope not.
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iginla
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Jun 10, 2019 17:19:36 GMT
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Post by iginla on Jun 10, 2019 17:19:36 GMT
I agree he should be saying to Panthers this is what I’m going to do,create a path and a structure with the Lions etc,but I bet they won’t go with it. Plenty of people were over the moon we got a DOH but nobody knows what he’s going to do for seven months. In opinion they should of spent the £50k or whatever Doucet’s total package cost on the squad through better quality players. Seriously,what is he going to do ? Why don’t you wait to see what he does through the season instead of just assuming he won’t be doing anything and how do you know Doucet’s wage is coming out of the wage budget? I didn’t say it was coming out of the player budget, but it doesn’t matter where it’s coming from it’s still money spent which I think would be more effective added to the player budget instead of a DOH. I just can’t see what the guy is going to do especially as he won’t get unhindered free reign.
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Deleted
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Jun 10, 2019 17:59:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 17:59:26 GMT
Meanwhile, back on topic, after a poor campaign last time out, we have ‘re recruited’ all (bar 2, at the moment) of our lame Brits for another season. Oh dear, oh dear, that means we have re-signed nine of last years underachieving squad already for 2019/20. Pound to a pinch of poo poo there’ll be another 2 or 3 re-signed as well meaning over 50% of last years mob will be gracing the fabulous NIC once again next season.
Oh well, it’s saved me some money!!! 😡
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Deleted
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Jun 10, 2019 18:06:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 18:06:35 GMT
Meanwhile, back on topic, after a poor campaign last time out, we have ‘re recruited’ all (bar 2, at the moment) of our lame Brits for another season. Oh dear, oh dear, that means we have re-signed nine of last years underachieving squad already for 2019/20. Pound to a pinch of poo poo there’ll be another 2 or 3 re-signed as well meaning over 50% of last years mob will be gracing the fabulous NIC once again next season. Oh well, it’s saved me some money!!! 😡 Steelers so far have re signed McGrath, Armstrong, Eberle and Deluca.. plus their brits They finished 7th...
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Brits
Jun 10, 2019 18:45:33 GMT
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Post by wgray on Jun 10, 2019 18:45:33 GMT
Meanwhile, back on topic, after a poor campaign last time out, we have ‘re recruited’ all (bar 2, at the moment) of our lame Brits for another season. Oh dear, oh dear, that means we have re-signed nine of last years underachieving squad already for 2019/20. Pound to a pinch of poo poo there’ll be another 2 or 3 re-signed as well meaning over 50% of last years mob will be gracing the fabulous NIC once again next season. Oh well, it’s saved me some money!!! 😡 Steelers so far have re signed McGrath, Armstrong, Eberle and Deluca.. plus their brits They finished 7th... Picko makes a fair point in what he says, from last season’s performance 3 of the 8 players we’ve re-signed should have been let go. Without sending the thread off at a tangent, Sheffield’s Brits weren’t their problem last season, Deluca and Armstrong will be decent players for their third line, Eberle is a solid 4th liner and McGrath is rumoured to be being moved on. Last season was our opportunity to embarrass the Steelers and we peed it up the wall, it pains me to say it but they’ll come back strong this season and the squad they’ve built so far backs that up. Sheffield won’t re-sign any of their under-perfomers which is why McGrath is rumoured to be getting the chop. Now, they’ve got lucky with Johnson on the uni deal as he’s a decent player but his resume warranted a deal, we made a big mistake putting Lepine and Rheault on those deals and they shouldn’t have been kept on. To bring it back to the original point, so far our recruitment can be viewed as underwhelming. We arguably shouldn’t have retained the two imports we have, uni deals or not. One of our senior Brits should have been released and there is uncertainty about whether we are going to re-sign two of our better senior Brits. It’s not all doom and gloom though as we’ve got a lot of players to sign. Their are other senior Brits available we could bring in if any of ours leave. The key is going to be our top 6 forwards though, they all need to be capable of providing at least a PPG. If any of the forwards we have currently signed are set to be playing in the top 6 then I think we need to lower our expectations.
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Deleted
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Jun 10, 2019 19:45:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 19:45:13 GMT
While I think the season will be another car crash at least wait to see what sort of standard of player Tim and Gui bring in.
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Brits
Jun 10, 2019 19:49:09 GMT
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Post by wgray on Jun 10, 2019 19:49:09 GMT
While I think the season will be another car crash at least wait to see what sort of standard of player Tim and Gui bring in. I agree, let’s hope they can uncover a few gems.
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Brits
Jun 10, 2019 21:12:15 GMT
Post by John Casey on Jun 10, 2019 21:12:15 GMT
Steelers so far have re signed McGrath, Armstrong, Eberle and Deluca.. plus their brits They finished 7th... Picko makes a fair point in what he says, from last season’s performance 3 of the 8 players we’ve re-signed should have been let go. Without sending the thread off at a tangent, Sheffield’s Brits weren’t their problem last season, Deluca and Armstrong will be decent players for their third line, Eberle is a solid 4th liner and McGrath is rumoured to be being moved on. Last season was our opportunity to embarrass the Steelers and we peed it up the wall, it pains me to say it but they’ll come back strong this season and the squad they’ve built so far backs that up. Sheffield won’t re-sign any of their under-perfomers which is why McGrath is rumoured to be getting the chop. Now, they’ve got lucky with Johnson on the uni deal as he’s a decent player but his resume warranted a deal, we made a big mistake putting Lepine and Rheault on those deals and they shouldn’t have been kept on. To bring it back to the original point, so far our recruitment can be viewed as underwhelming. We arguably shouldn’t have retained the two imports we have, uni deals or not. One of our senior Brits should have been released and there is uncertainty about whether we are going to re-sign two of our better senior Brits. It’s not all doom and gloom though as we’ve got a lot of players to sign. Their are other senior Brits available we could bring in if any of ours leave. The key is going to be our top 6 forwards though, they all need to be capable of providing at least a PPG. If any of the forwards we have currently signed are set to be playing in the top 6 then I think we need to lower our expectations. Whilst Lepine didn't have the best Season last year, but I don't recall people complaining at the time of the announcement. If I was the Coach, I would have made the same decision.
Granted Uni places should probably be given to players that have been here for a couple of Seasons beforehand but it wasn't the worst idea to give a Uni place to a player who was a success during his 1st stint and went on to a higher league
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Post by bobness on Jun 11, 2019 12:37:23 GMT
While I think the season will be another car crash at least wait to see what sort of standard of player Tim and Gui bring in. So, the coach has only just been appointed, at least 11 imports still to sign, and already your assessment is that the season will be a "car crash"? Your glass is certainly a different kind of empty.
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Joe
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Jun 11, 2019 13:56:52 GMT
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Post by Joe on Jun 11, 2019 13:56:52 GMT
While I think the season will be another car crash at least wait to see what sort of standard of player Tim and Gui bring in. So, the coach has only just been appointed, at least 11 imports still to sign, and already your assessment is that the season will be a "car crash"? Your glass is certainly a different kind of empty. but also while stating that somebody else should wait to see who is brought in before judging even though he isn’t
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Brits
Jun 11, 2019 15:22:45 GMT
Post by texpef on Jun 11, 2019 15:22:45 GMT
“We need change, we need change” Change happens “This isn’t the right sort of change” ... What exactly has changed apart from adding another layer of management? Which from past experience means the panthers org TM is able to share around the blame if/when the fanbase get reckless and gives them more leeway to do sod all until its too late...
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Brits
Jun 11, 2019 15:41:08 GMT
Post by cooperphil156 on Jun 11, 2019 15:41:08 GMT
“We need change, we need change” Change happens “This isn’t the right sort of change” ... What exactly has changed apart from adding another layer of management? Which from past experience means the panthers org TM is able to share around the blame if/when the fanbase get reckless and gives them more leeway to do sod all until its too late... I really despair at some of the stuff on here. We have a new director of hockey, we have a new coach and a puck wont be dropped for several weeks. Make sensible comments when we see what they have come up with on the full roster and how the team is playing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2019 16:12:45 GMT
“We need change, we need change” Change happens “This isn’t the right sort of change” ... What exactly has changed apart from adding another layer of management? Which from past experience means the panthers org TM is able to share around the blame if/when the fanbase get reckless and gives them more leeway to do sod all until its too late... Here’s a thought, why not give it a chance to see if it works first before writing it off?
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Brits
Jun 11, 2019 16:25:13 GMT
jd and Joe like this
Post by cooperphil156 on Jun 11, 2019 16:25:13 GMT
What exactly has changed apart from adding another layer of management? Which from past experience means the panthers org TM is able to share around the blame if/when the fanbase get reckless and gives them more leeway to do sod all until its too late... Here’s a thought, why not give it a chance to see if it works first before writing it off? Exactly - very original for some
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Post by bobness on Jun 11, 2019 16:53:21 GMT
What exactly has changed apart from adding another layer of management? Which from past experience means the panthers org TM is able to share around the blame if/when the fanbase get reckless and gives them more leeway to do sod all until its too late... Here’s a thought, why not give it a chance to see if it works first before writing it off? What a preposterous idea. Talk like that will get in the way of the whinge-fest. Next you'll be saying that to comment on here people should be made to actually attend games.
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Brits
Jun 11, 2019 21:28:06 GMT
Post by texpef on Jun 11, 2019 21:28:06 GMT
What exactly has changed apart from adding another layer of management? Which from past experience means the panthers org TM is able to share around the blame if/when the fanbase get reckless and gives them more leeway to do sod all until its too late... Here’s a thought, why not give it a chance to see if it works first before writing it off? You said something had changed I merely asked the question what apart from adding in another layer of management which a DOH is?... and then gave my view of what I believe is likely given the past near 40 odd years experience of being a panthers fan, I am sure others have alternate views, time will tell who is more likely to be right but history is hard to ignore...
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jun 11, 2019 21:37:22 GMT
“We need change, we need change” Change happens “This isn’t the right sort of change” ... What exactly has changed apart from adding another layer of management? Which from past experience means the panthers org TM is able to share around the blame if/when the fanbase get reckless and gives them more leeway to do sod all until its too late... Do you really want answers to all of those questions/points? Probably not... Fact:- As others have pointed out - a new coach. And one who was praised last season for engaging very professionally with his players and motivating a poor team to perform well above expectations. Speculation:- Seeing as Corey Neilson (unfairly?), Rich Chernomaz and Rick Strachan were all heavily criticised on the player interaction and team motivation fronts... this appears to have the possibility of being a fundamental upgrade. Fact:- 'Director of Hockey' - responsible for player recruitment. Speculation:- It has been widely touted - by those who appear to do little other than criticise - that their Most Unwanted person in the Panthers organisation, Gary Moran, has had control of this area for many years. With Calum having already taken over most/all of the media side of things, and with GM's recent medical issues having largely sidelined him for a while... maybe this is another step in reducing the amount of control he allegedly has? One would have thought there would be cheers and tears of joy in certain circles at even the remotest possibility of that happening... Ah, yes... the 'nothing ever changes' line. Which is little more than assumption based more on prejudice than actual logic and facts. And yes... the 'the Panthers don't give a damn as long as the money comes in' line. Because <sarcasm alert!> everyone within the Panthers organisation only ever does anything for money and is only out for themselves, as opposed to the dedicated and passionate fans who <bovine excrement alert!> only criticise out of the goodness of their hearts, providing 'tough love' and a 'realistic attitude'... As for what this will do for British players with the Panthers (including links with the juniors & Lions)... who knows? We can only guess. What could this do? - potentially one hell of a lot, although more in the medium to long term than anything else.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Brits
Jun 11, 2019 22:06:57 GMT
Post by iginla on Jun 11, 2019 22:06:57 GMT
But Shaggy as you’re very very fond of pointing out to other people.....you’re guessing that things may change and you have no concrete proof anything will come good. They may not,the new coach may turn out to be a dud,the new DOH may not make one iota of difference and Moran may still be here meddling in five years time. Will Calum even be here !
Past experience with Panthers tells us all to either expect nowt or wait and see,it just depends how cynical we each are.
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