DJP
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 82
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Post by DJP on Jan 14, 2019 20:06:29 GMT
Bolduc has 3+0 in his last 14 games. Billingsley has 1+5 in his last 8 games. Hurtubise has no goals in his last 10 games and only one in his last 15 (though he has 11 assists in those 15). Rheault is 0+1 in 7 games since his return. Figures include CC games where applicable. That Bolduc stat is a shocker, to me anyway. He ought to be a PPG player in this league. I assume the Billingsley stat is there for comparison. ("Compare his stats to the bloke who's been scratched 3 times lately and still has twice as many points...") Hurtubise is at least laying on the helpers, and I have to say, he gets my vote as hardest working forward. The amount of times he's the first forward back is notable. He looks like he's lost a lot of confidence lately to me, though. As evidenced by a reluctance to unload the cannon he has. Rheault has been conspicuous by his almost total absence since his return. Whilst he is coming back from a major injury, he was signed to be a top 6 forward, but his stats say he isn't playing anything like it. 0+2 in 11 games is nowhere near where he should be.
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DJP
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 82
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Post by DJP on Jan 14, 2019 20:32:24 GMT
Re Bolduc: Whatever other skills he brings, his points total in the last 14 games is disappointing given that he started off at roughly a point a game. Re Billingsley: Yes, for comparison purposes. With relatively little ice time, some games off and being required to play both D and RW, he has actually contributed quite well. I've always felt there's more points production in him than we've seen so far. As a right-shooting D man jumping into the play, he's always looked useful. Re Hurtubise: Despite his hard-working all-round game (reflected in the team's second-best current League +/- rating of +10), his shooting skills have rather deserted him, as exemplified by the stick-shattering one-timer we saw on Saturday. Rheault was 4+4 in four games against good opposition (2x Cardiff, Budapest and Stavanger) in pre-season and looked to have formed a good understanding with Pither, which is presumably why he's been on Pither's line for the majority of the 7 games since his return. Maybe, like Stewart, he just needs more game time.
On the credit side: Perlini has 6+10 in his last 15 games, which is a big improvement from the 6+7=13 he'd registered in his first 31 League/CC games. Kovacs, who suffered a rare point-less weekend, has 12+28=40 from 47 League/CC games, to go with a low PIM count of 12 and, though unobtrusive, usually improves any line he's on. Pither, who's had a relatively thin time of it lately (1+1=2 in his last 9 games), is nevertheless a skilful player despite his tendency to attract some soft penalties but he really needs someone who can just release him into channels either side of the slot, from where he can be deadly. Also, he's one of the top three face-off men in the League - of those who have won more than 150 face-offs, only Dixon and Ulmer are (marginally) ahead of his face-off win rate of 59.36%.
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Post by Bagheera on Jan 14, 2019 21:06:51 GMT
Whilst I do look at some of those stats and see some players aint at the level you would expect, surely to a degree a chunk of that is all superseded buy a coach doing a poor job. If the tactics are wrong, the palyers are disengaged and have had the motivation kicked out of them by a coach they dont want to play for then those stats somewhat come as a result of that. You can look at the stats of any underperforming team in any sport and it wont paint a pretty picture the majority of the time. Hey, maybe it is down to an overall bad group of players and Rich is doing all he can with a bad bunch. Maybe it's a little from column A and a little from column B. We dont really know. Those stats are poor but for me the group still has more talent than performanes and the stats say(That doesnt mean that I think they are as good as Cardiff). It is still a good group of player and we have largely seen what they are capable of. Something is hindering them from playing to their potential.
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,039
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Post by EMB on Jan 14, 2019 21:06:59 GMT
I love your stats they are brilliant and what an eye opener when you look at them . Thank very much
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Post by bobness on Jan 14, 2019 21:14:15 GMT
Pither is a penalty magnet, no-one has taken more minors this year for Panthers. (20 in his case. 7 of those have been scored on.) Being "Good at face offs" can only cover so many sins. Too many forwards have lost their mojo at the same time lately, it seems.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 14, 2019 21:20:23 GMT
Whilst I do look at some of those stats and see some players aint at the level you would expect, surely to a degree a chunk of that is all superseded buy a coach doing a poor job. If the tactics are wrong, the palyers are disengaged and have had the motivation kicked out of them by a coach they dont want to play for then those stats somewhat come as a result of that. You can look at the stats of any underperforming team in any sport and it wont paint a pretty picture the majority of the time. Hey, maybe it is down to an overall bad group of players and Rich is doing all he can with a bad bunch. Maybe it's a little from column A and a little from column B. We dont really know. Those stats are poor but for me the group still has more talent than performanes and the stats say(That doesnt mean that I think they are as good as Cardiff). It is still a good group of player and we have largely seen what they are capable of. Something is hindering them from playing to their potential. Apart from one maverick pretty much all of the forwards can’t buy a goal and far too much of the time the defence is terrible. We have a couple of top tier players but the rest occasionally play above themselves. To compound the problem the coach is treading water till the end of the season. Cardiff and Belfast are on another level.
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Post by Bagheera on Jan 14, 2019 21:31:08 GMT
Whilst I do look at some of those stats and see some players aint at the level you would expect, surely to a degree a chunk of that is all superseded buy a coach doing a poor job. If the tactics are wrong, the palyers are disengaged and have had the motivation kicked out of them by a coach they dont want to play for then those stats somewhat come as a result of that. You can look at the stats of any underperforming team in any sport and it wont paint a pretty picture the majority of the time. Hey, maybe it is down to an overall bad group of players and Rich is doing all he can with a bad bunch. Maybe it's a little from column A and a little from column B. We dont really know. Those stats are poor but for me the group still has more talent than performanes and the stats say(That doesnt mean that I think they are as good as Cardiff). It is still a good group of player and we have largely seen what they are capable of. Something is hindering them from playing to their potential. Apart from one maverick pretty much all of the forwards can’t buy a goal and far too much of the time the defence is terrible. We have a couple of top tier players but the rest occasionally play above themselves. To compound the problem the coach is treading water till the end of the season. Cardiff and Belfast are on another level. And I do see a good chunk of that. However, for example. I saw Henderson putting in a real shift on Saturday. He worked as hard as any other player on the ice and hustled all night to battle for every puck. Now his production is absoloutly woeful. Tinted spectacles work both ways at times. Its easy with the results we are having to see good players as woeful but i'll go back to the point i've made many times. Its not possible for so many good CVs to turn up here and just become bad players. Out of form? maybe. Demotivated? Maybe. Here for an easy ride? Maybe. Suddenly bad players after the careers a number of them have had? Not for me. Manchester Utd are a very current example of the point I was trying to make though. Same group of players under Jose, their stats were pretty poor(against teams of every level in the league). New manager, results change and the players stats look better. I'm not definatively against what you are saying. I would however really love to see the same group of players under a different coach.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 14, 2019 21:44:13 GMT
Apart from one maverick pretty much all of the forwards can’t buy a goal and far too much of the time the defence is terrible. We have a couple of top tier players but the rest occasionally play above themselves. To compound the problem the coach is treading water till the end of the season. Cardiff and Belfast are on another level. And I do see a good chunk of that. However, for example. I saw Henderson putting in a real shift on Saturday. He worked as hard as any other player on the ice and hustled all night to battle for every puck. Now his production is absoloutly woeful. Tinted spectacles work both ways at times. Its easy with the results we are having to see good players as woeful but i'll go back to the point i've made many times. Its not possible for so many good CVs to turn up here and just become bad players. Out of form? maybe. Demotivated? Maybe. Here for an easy ride? Maybe. Suddenly bad players after the careers a number of them have had? Not for me. Manchester Utd are a very current example of the point I was trying to make though. Same group of players under Jose, their stats were pretty poor(against teams of every level in the league). New manager, results change and the players stats look better. I'm not definatively against what you are saying. I would however really love to see the same group of players under a different coach. My point is that Henderson wouldn’t get into a Cardiff or Belfast B team. Working hard and being effective are two different things. Henderson really isn’t very effective.
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 14, 2019 21:47:00 GMT
Too many forwards have lost their mojo at the same time lately, it seems. Not just forwards... But you're right... and Bagheera makes some excellent points. We know that this group of players can do a lot better than they are doing... but for (nearly) the whole team to be underperforming means that most likely - because remember that this is all speculation, none of us knows - there is a fundamental problem at team level. And by far the most likely cause of that is the coach. Be it motivational problems, tactical problems or whatever... don't know. But as much as I hate to say it - because I was also hopeful when we signed him - the most likely single major problem almost has to be Rich Chernomaz.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 14, 2019 21:53:18 GMT
And I do see a good chunk of that. However, for example. I saw Henderson putting in a real shift on Saturday. He worked as hard as any other player on the ice and hustled all night to battle for every puck. Now his production is absoloutly woeful. Tinted spectacles work both ways at times. Its easy with the results we are having to see good players as woeful but i'll go back to the point i've made many times. Its not possible for so many good CVs to turn up here and just become bad players. Out of form? maybe. Demotivated? Maybe. Here for an easy ride? Maybe. Suddenly bad players after the careers a number of them have had? Not for me. Manchester Utd are a very current example of the point I was trying to make though. Same group of players under Jose, their stats were pretty poor(against teams of every level in the league). New manager, results change and the players stats look better. I'm not definatively against what you are saying. I would however really love to see the same group of players under a different coach. My point is that Henderson wouldn’t get into a Cardiff or Belfast B team. Working hard and being effective are two different things. Henderson really isn’t very effective. You're right - working hard and effective are definitely two different things - but the question is... would his hard work be effective if the rest of the team were doing better? We can't just look at players in isolation... we also have to do so in context of the team as a whole.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 14, 2019 22:04:52 GMT
My point is that Henderson wouldn’t get into a Cardiff or Belfast B team. Working hard and being effective are two different things. Henderson really isn’t very effective. You're right - working hard and effective are definitely two different things - but the question is... would his hard work be effective if the rest of the team were doing better? We can't just look at players in isolation... we also have to do so in context of the team as a whole. Yes but the majority of the rest of the team are ineffective as well. On Saturday night and many other nights before we were ineffective as an entire team. To compound that the rocket scientist on the bench left Guptill out too rendering us toothless. Pure genius for a home game during a poor run. On top of that we have Pither who was lethal in front of goal when he joined last year has been on lines that totally neutralise him plus he’s all over the ice except from the aponants goal when he isn’t busy tripping someone up. Ineffectiveness is catching.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 14, 2019 22:53:23 GMT
You're right - working hard and effective are definitely two different things - but the question is... would his hard work be effective if the rest of the team were doing better? We can't just look at players in isolation... we also have to do so in context of the team as a whole. Yes but the majority of the rest of the team are ineffective as well. That's kind of my point... if the rest of the team weren't ineffective, would Henderson's hard work have been supported enough to have made a decent difference? Therefore, is it Henderson who should be criticised or someone(s) else? And I think you've just answered my last question...
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