simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 10:44:40 GMT
Again I explain that the characteristics of a player needs to be defined...
I'd define one characteristic as 'aggression' and another as 'self control'
We should eventually end up with say 10 characteristics maybe less maybe more.
Without input from the cage community this can go nowhere as it requires there to be a larger sample of input that one.
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Karl
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Post by Karl on Jan 28, 2018 11:03:31 GMT
Again I explain that the characteristics of a player needs to be defined... I'd define one characteristic as 'aggression' and another as 'self control' We should eventually end up with say 10 characteristics maybe less maybe more. Without input from the cage community this can go nowhere as it requires there to be a larger sample of input that one. I don’t really understand what the goal is to achieve though? Why will this benifit the supporters trust?
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 11:18:10 GMT
Do you need to understand the eventual goal. Can't you just roll with it and see where it ends up ?
I wrote this previously...
"And those that support the supporters trust should be able to see that this can add real value to their cause and answer the question that all they're about is being negative and criticising when things are going wrong..."
You might not see what's achievable...
But wouldn't it be nice for social media, the cage and by association the supporters trust and the supporters in general who attend the games to show that their aggregated opinion of the players and team can be of value..
Even if at first the Panthers organisation scoffs at it.
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Post by PantherB on Jan 28, 2018 12:02:48 GMT
But wouldn't it be nice for social media, the cage and by association the supporters trust and the supporters in general who attend the games to show that their aggregated opinion of the players and team can be of value.. There's plenty of that already across all the social media and on here, the club won't take any notice and neither will anyone of importance within the hockey world. Our fans are getting more and more renowned for aggression against underperforming players, not everyone obviously but a growing number of people. People fail to be able to discuss a player and their dip in form without expletives or targeted abuse. Something like this what you're trying to get started, innocent intent I'm sure but it's just a recipe for negativity and displeasure, and the last thing our fan base needs is more stuff to moan about. I'm sure Corey and the club will use programmes such as RinkNet as well as information direct from scouts and player agents, making fans' opinions of even lesser value.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 28, 2018 12:25:58 GMT
Just do a profile on the upper management. Less people and far more telling.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 12:55:01 GMT
" but it's just a recipe for negativity and displeasure, "
What ...... Have you read this forum ?
Often on here a person will come on and say this that or the other, for instance "a spineless team". The management team talk about jigsaw puzzle and finding the pieces.. We as a large group of eyes could provide the box lid from which to go out and find the correct piece.
Yes hopefully the management do use more than divination to assess players prior to offering them a deal. But what we're talking about is how they're performing and fitting in whilst wearing the black and gold.
The supporters are often referred to as the extra skater on the ice. I say if we did something constructive on this forum as opposed to just moaning, we could also be the extra coach on the bench.
But if its too much bother....
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Karl
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Post by Karl on Jan 28, 2018 13:03:09 GMT
" but it's just a recipe for negativity and displeasure, " What ...... Have you read this forum ? Often on here a person will come on and say this that or the other, for instance "a spineless team". The management team talk about jigsaw puzzle and finding the pieces.. We as a large group of eyes could provide the box lid from which to go out and find the correct piece. Yes hopefully the management do use more than divination to assess players prior to offering them a deal. But what we're talking about is how they're performing and fitting in whilst wearing the black and gold. The supporters are often referred to as the extra skater on the ice. I say if we did something constructive on this forum as opposed to just moaning, we could also be the extra coach on the bench. But if its too much bother.... It’s not too much bother it’s just an absolutely pointless task. Any coach worth his salt will be using scouts, scouting services and past coaches/teammates. Not the opinion of Barbera who thinks Rob Lachowicz has a 9/10 slapshot. At this point I think you are trolling, cause the cage forum isn’t the Ezra coach on the bench.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 13:12:13 GMT
"At this point I think you are trolling"
Well that's up to the moderators to decide..
As for your ability to think... Tell us again about these scouts who are watching the current Panthers players ?
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 28, 2018 13:14:46 GMT
" but it's just a recipe for negativity and displeasure, " What ...... Have you read this forum ? Often on here a person will come on and say this that or the other, for instance "a spineless team". The management team talk about jigsaw puzzle and finding the pieces.. We as a large group of eyes could provide the box lid from which to go out and find the correct piece. Yes hopefully the management do use more than divination to assess players prior to offering them a deal. But what we're talking about is how they're performing and fitting in whilst wearing the black and gold. The supporters are often referred to as the extra skater on the ice. I say if we did something constructive on this forum as opposed to just moaning, we could also be the extra coach on the bench. But if its too much bother.... It seems too much bother for you to start, nevermind anyone else!
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 13:19:24 GMT
Did IQ's drop ?
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Post by pantherlee on Jan 28, 2018 13:26:41 GMT
Just face it. Its a non-starter. Nobody is interested
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Karl
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Post by Karl on Jan 28, 2018 13:31:20 GMT
"At this point I think you are trolling" Well that's up to the moderators to decide.. As for your ability to think... Tell us again about these scouts who are watching the current Panthers players ? You do realise our league is one of the lowest quality in Europe right? Our ability to attract players mainly rests on the player wanting to play in a country that speaks English. The pool of players we can choose from is exceptionally limited especially as the best consistent performers wouldn’t be near our league. We can’t compete financially, quality wise etc. Meaning the coaches recruit from what’s available. They cannot send a club scout out to viewa potential recruit, they can only go on previous scouting reports, agencies and previous coaches. If you think your analysis of the players we have will lead to us attracting better quality players you are wrong.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 28, 2018 13:35:40 GMT
Can't any of you discuss ANYTHING on here without it descending to the level of playground squabbles?
Pack it in with the personal digs or we get the thread locks and/or the ban hammer out.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 19:42:01 GMT
Thank you Shaggy for your interjection..
I think though that Pantherlee might well be correct in that people aren't interested.
I naively continue to see the good social media could do, but it's a fight against human nature that possibly just can't be won.
Regards
Simon
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 28, 2018 19:50:06 GMT
If you could produce a database like the one the chaps who made Championship Manager (as was) have, which I believe is now comprehensive and trusted enough to be used as a tool by professional clubs in football, then I can see the point - the coaches could use it to look for potential recruits - but it'd be a massive undertaking.
For pointing out weaknesses in our lineup, you'd rather hope the coaching staff would be aware of them without any help, wouldn't you?
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 28, 2018 19:54:54 GMT
If you could produce a database like the one the chaps who made Championship Manager (as was) have, which I believe is now comprehensive and trusted enough to be used as a tool by professional clubs in football, then I can see the point - the coaches could use it to look for potential recruits - but it'd be a massive undertaking. For pointing out weaknesses in our lineup, you'd rather hope the coaching staff would be aware of them without any help, wouldn't you? You would Yotes yes......but no 😂😂
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 20:29:42 GMT
Agreed its not about building a database of every player that plays the game but about understanding how our current crop of players are fitting in.
The coach has an opinion, the player has an opinion. The collective intelligence of the watching supporters has an opinion. And what I'm suggesting is a means of communicating this opinion in such a way as for it not come across as the ramblings of a bitter and twisted individual supporter. Which all too often is the resulting output of any discussion on this forum.
What's the point of us being the best supporters in the land if we're not prepared to take another step and have our collective opinion valued ?
For some supporters this is a pipe dream, and I should stop taking the drugs or maybe I should start. I totally understand, but dare I suggest that it might offer a way back for supporters to be appreciated by the management and that people just go with flow, contribute and see what the results are...
What have you guys got to lose, some minutes of your time debating the major characteristics to define a player and the time taken to rank each player ?I
I'll do all the donkey work and produce the spreadsheet and graphs..
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 28, 2018 21:31:35 GMT
Agreed its not about building a database of every player that plays the game but about understanding how our current crop of players are fitting in. The coach has an opinion, the player has an opinion. The collective intelligence of the watching supporters has an opinion. And what I'm suggesting is a means of communicating this opinion in such a way as for it not come across as the ramblings of a bitter and twisted individual supporter. Which all too often is the resulting output of any discussion on this forum. What's the point of us being the best supporters in the land if we're not prepared to take another step and have our collective opinion valued ? For some supporters this is a pipe dream, and I should stop taking the drugs or maybe I should start. I totally understand, but dare I suggest that it might offer a way back for supporters to be appreciated by the management and that people just go with flow, contribute and see what the results are... What have you guys got to lose, some minutes of your time debating the major characteristics to define a player and the time taken to rank each player ?I I'll do all the donkey work and produce the spreadsheet and graphs.. No ones telling you not to do it or telling you they won’t participate... If you genuinely believe it’ll make a difference then go for it! As mentioned above, the FM player database is now used professionally to scout and purchase footballers. There is an Ice Hockey version with a similar format which will give you a good list of player ‘characteristics’ to start with (skill, mental and physical attributes)...
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 21:50:32 GMT
So why are you 'pissing on my parade' to coin a phrase....
What's in it for you ?
Or to quote Oddball "what's with da negative vibes man"
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 28, 2018 21:53:47 GMT
So why are you 'pissing on my parade' to coin a phrase.... What's in it for you ? Or to quote Oddball "what's with da negative vibes man" Bizarre post.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Jan 28, 2018 22:00:33 GMT
Yeh but I now know how old you're not...
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