iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Oct 29, 2017 18:12:40 GMT
Different scenario yes,same owner though. This banning lark is becoming rather silly and worrying now.
So what if a clip was tweeted. What are they worried about....not being able to hush up something they wanted to sweep under the carpet !
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 22:16:04 GMT
Agree. Different scenario, same ends - the unjustifiable banning of a fan. Clantastic's only mistake was in assuming that the video clip was ok, but that was a reasonable mistake. How often do you check You Tube videos to see if they breach copyright before viewing?
Bringing the EIHL into disrepute!!! Don't make me laugh!!
Don't tell the truth! Don't make a mistake! OR ELSE!
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Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,382
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Post by Yotes on Oct 29, 2017 23:00:00 GMT
It is worrying to see the ultimate punishment for a fan, for something disconnected from their attendance at games. He basically appears to have been banned for not doing what he's told. Are we all subservient to whatever the club/league ask of us now? I hope he too gets it sorted out quickly. The seals (or apparent total lack of) at Braehead's AV operation are their problem, it should be Chalmers getting it in the neck from the league if they're so concerned. If it's down to copyright, and the ruling is applied on a wider scale, Panthers often retweet photos etc from the game (despite us not supposed to be taking photos at the game), you often see game footage from fans of fights etc, will they all now be censured for the breach? It's all gone a bit weird at the moment. NottinghamMatt can rest assured that when the Elite League heavies come round looking to ban someone for our GDT graphics, I'll not mention his name. Oh hang on...
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Oct 29, 2017 23:31:11 GMT
Can somebody explain the difference between what Graham (Clantastic) did and the goal clip Brett Perlini tweeted tonight. Both were done before official highlights were released. It's a good job Perlini doesn't play for the Clan.....he'd be banned from playing now !
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Karl
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 98
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Post by Karl on Oct 30, 2017 4:54:56 GMT
As far as I understand it, Brett retweeted a fan video whereas Clantastic tweeted the official highlights video before it was edited and released. Seems to me like someone in the media department in Braehead has shared the clip with friends and it has then unintentionally gotten around other people.
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Post by NottinghamMatt on Oct 30, 2017 15:04:44 GMT
It is worrying to see the ultimate punishment for a fan, for something disconnected from their attendance at games. He basically appears to have been banned for not doing what he's told. Are we all subservient to whatever the club/league ask of us now? I hope he too gets it sorted out quickly. The seals (or apparent total lack of) at Braehead's AV operation are their problem, it should be Chalmers getting it in the neck from the league if they're so concerned. If it's down to copyright, and the ruling is applied on a wider scale, Panthers often retweet photos etc from the game (despite us not supposed to be taking photos at the game), you often see game footage from fans of fights etc, will they all now be censured for the breach? It's all gone a bit weird at the moment. NottinghamMatt can rest assured that when the Elite League heavies come round looking to ban someone for our GDT graphics, I'll not mention his name. Oh hang on... I'll remember that when... ...one second what's that noise overhead...
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Post by spik on Oct 30, 2017 17:22:28 GMT
As far as I understand it, Brett retweeted a fan video whereas Clantastic tweeted the official highlights video before it was edited and released. Seems to me like someone in the media department in Braehead has shared the clip with friends and it has then unintentionally gotten around other people. Yes. but isn't this also the same thing? Clantastic did something that was made available. Perlini did something that was made available.
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Post by spik on Oct 30, 2017 17:29:40 GMT
Agree. Different scenario, same ends - the unjustifiable banning of a fan. Clantastic's only mistake was in assuming that the video clip was ok, but that was a reasonable mistake. How often do you check You Tube videos to see if they breach copyright before viewing? Bringing the EIHL into disrepute!!! Don't make me laugh!! Don't tell the truth! Don't make a mistake! OR ELSE! Someone like myself who is not very computer tech and such might make the same mistake.I have loads of pictures I guess Panthers don't have. If they were more approacable I might be able to disclose...oh, hamg on they are not mine? Yes they are, I reseached them anmd have them as actual photos I bought, I thus scanned them to my computer. Age old argument that they be the photograthers/clubs or owners. Bet IF I penned them to the Cage Fixtures thread they'd appear somewhere else (if copied) but no one would CREDIT me. THAT happens but that's ok if your the one with the weight of solicitors etc....but it's also wrong.
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Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
Posts: 4,879
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Post by Pies on Oct 30, 2017 17:31:14 GMT
The fact of the matter is the footage Clantastic tweeted was apparently illegally obtained - Perlini’s wasn’t.
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Post by spik on Oct 30, 2017 17:40:28 GMT
The fact of the matter is the footage Clantastic tweeted was apparently illegally obtained - Perlini’s wasn’t. Fair enough, I understand. But can't Clan approach in a better manner or did they? I know they asked for the person who had sent on the clip but if it's now taken down and Clantastic apologised. How about looking at internal problems now.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Oct 30, 2017 17:41:44 GMT
The fact of the matter is the footage Clantastic tweeted was apparently illegally obtained - Perlini’s wasn’t. Except we're not allowed to film or photograph games. Isn't that still copyright infringement? Has Perlini shopped whoever he got that footage from so they can be dealt with, as this chap is being required to do?
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Post by tootootrain on Oct 30, 2017 18:06:24 GMT
The fact of the matter is the footage Clantastic tweeted was apparently illegally obtained - Perlini’s wasn’t. If it was illegally obtained then why wasn't 'Clantastic' visited by the Police rather than contacted by Garath Chalmers? Likely because the Police would inform Mr Chalmers that, given the footage was released to 'Clantastic' by someone within the Braehead organisation, no crime was committed by him, rather it's an internal disciplinary matter. All Chalmers is trying to do is frighten 'Clantastic' in order to spill the beans, doing the legwork for him. Its a pretty shoddy state of affairs when you have to go after your loyal fans in order to address a staff disciplinary matter.
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Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
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Post by Pies on Oct 30, 2017 18:15:00 GMT
The fact of the matter is the footage Clantastic tweeted was apparently illegally obtained - Perlini’s wasn’t. Except we're not allowed to film or photograph games. Isn't that still copyright infringement? Has Perlini shopped whoever he got that footage from so they can be dealt with, as this chap is being required to do? We’re not allowed to film at the arena but does the same rule apply to the blaze...
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Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
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Post by Pies on Oct 30, 2017 18:17:41 GMT
I think what we need to have made clear: the reason the Clan are upset is because it’s footage is alledgely from their official camera not from a fan. So someone has leaked that who works inside the organisation. I’m no expert in legal matters so I’m not commenting on what’s right or wrong - merely going on the info I’ve read on twitter. I have no doubt clantastic is innocent in this but there’s a big difference between what Perlini tweeted and what he tweeted is all I’m saying!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Oct 30, 2017 18:55:15 GMT
How would it go down with Panthers if Coventry banned Perlini from their arena in future ! 🙄
Not very well I should imagine. 🤣
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Oct 30, 2017 19:13:12 GMT
I think what we need to have made clear: the reason the Clan are upset is because it’s footage is alledgely from their official camera not from a fan. So someone has leaked that who works inside the organisation. I’m no expert in legal matters so I’m not commenting on what’s right or wrong - merely going on the info I’ve read on twitter. I have no doubt clantastic is innocent in this but there’s a big difference between what Perlini tweeted and what he tweeted is all I’m saying! I'm not sure they are entirely that different though; person tweets footage they've obtained - neither recorded it themselves, neither stole it. One guy gets a league wide ban, the other gets tacit approval by Panthers retweeting it. It's the double standard that annoys me. I get that the Clan are embarrassed that their defence isn't the only thing that's leaking badly, but for the league (not just Clan) to ban the guy because he doesn't want to get someone else sacked (presumably) is all a bit much.
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Post by ted logan on Oct 30, 2017 19:24:02 GMT
Except we're not allowed to film or photograph games. Isn't that still copyright infringement? Has Perlini shopped whoever he got that footage from so they can be dealt with, as this chap is being required to do? We’re not allowed to film at the arena but does the same rule apply to the blaze... How does the NIC/Panthers police that though? How many times do we see fight footage appear on facebook, Twitter or drop your gloves? All shot live at the game.
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Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
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Post by Pies on Oct 30, 2017 19:40:48 GMT
We’re not allowed to film at the arena but does the same rule apply to the blaze... How does the NIC/Panthers police that though? How many times do we see fight footage appear on facebook, Twitter or drop your gloves? All shot live at the game. They can’t is the honest answer. And I don’t think they ever will. What this comes down to is the Clan being embarrassed that it’s leaked IMO. Either way, the ban is unfair. If I was the person who supplied the footage to Clantastic, then I would be stepping forward to help someone out
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Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
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Post by Pies on Oct 30, 2017 19:42:27 GMT
I think what we need to have made clear: the reason the Clan are upset is because it’s footage is alledgely from their official camera not from a fan. So someone has leaked that who works inside the organisation. I’m no expert in legal matters so I’m not commenting on what’s right or wrong - merely going on the info I’ve read on twitter. I have no doubt clantastic is innocent in this but there’s a big difference between what Perlini tweeted and what he tweeted is all I’m saying! I'm not sure they are entirely that different though; person tweets footage they've obtained - neither recorded it themselves, neither stole it. One guy gets a league wide ban, the other gets tacit approval by Panthers retweeting it. It's the double standard that annoys me. I get that the Clan are embarrassed that their defence isn't the only thing that's leaking badly, but for the league (not just Clan) to ban the guy because he doesn't want to get someone else sacked (presumably) is all a bit much. Perhaps I mean I’m playing Devils advocate a lot here. To be quite frank, there can’t be that many people who have access to the footage at Clan Towers. So it won’t be hard to figure out!
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Post by PantherB on Oct 30, 2017 19:59:20 GMT
How does the NIC/Panthers police that though? How many times do we see fight footage appear on facebook, Twitter or drop your gloves? All shot live at the game. They can’t is the honest answer. And I don’t think they ever will. What this comes down to is the Clan being embarrassed that it’s leaked IMO. Either way, the ban is unfair. If I was the person who supplied the footage to Clantastic, then I would be stepping forward to help someone out The arena has cameras everywhere so if someone gets a video camera out or someone is blatantly sat recording the game they'll be removed. The short fight clips are fine to record because it's a spectacle in itself and published on social media, advertising Panthers. If people record the whole game then the average joe can sit at home on facebook and watch what people are paying decent money to see, hence why it's prohibited. Several occasions I've known of people Periscoping or Facebook Live-ing the game and they've been told to stop by security after its been reported. As for this thing with Clantastic, I can see both sides of the story but he can't play victim when he's the one withholding information. Clan have every right to enforce the ban. If he tells Chalmers and co. who supplied the footage, he'll be allowed back.. simple stuff.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Oct 30, 2017 20:02:54 GMT
Perhaps I mean I’m playing Devils advocate a lot here. To be quite frank, there can’t be that many people who have access to the footage at Clan Towers. So it won’t be hard to figure out! Don't ask me where I got this from, but I have obtained footage of Chalmers visiting the Clan TV production office...
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Oct 30, 2017 20:06:23 GMT
As for this thing with Clantastic, I can see both sides of the story but he can't play victim when he's the one withholding information. Clan have every right to enforce the ban. If he tells Chalmers and co. who supplied the footage, he'll be allowed back.. simple stuff. So always do whatever the clubs demand of you, or be banned? Don't do something that people do all the time without censure, or be banned?
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Post by PantherB on Oct 30, 2017 20:46:26 GMT
As for this thing with Clantastic, I can see both sides of the story but he can't play victim when he's the one withholding information. Clan have every right to enforce the ban. If he tells Chalmers and co. who supplied the footage, he'll be allowed back.. simple stuff. So always do whatever the clubs demand of you, or be banned? Don't do something that people do all the time without censure, or be banned? Clan's situation is different to people recording fights.. The video Clantastic shared was a bad hit, as an official said, it compromises the officials and league when footage is released early. It could've been requested for review, and if so, the reviewer and official could have been threatened, persuaded to change their mind.. Risking integrity. Clan are well within their right to ban Clantastic, they want to know where their leak is and he's not co-operating. If it was the Police asking and he refused to comment he'd be done for it. Considering it's the clubs who make the rules for attending their games, it's their decision whether to take action against people who break the rules.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Oct 30, 2017 21:01:50 GMT
Absolutely anything could be sent for review, at the discretion of the clubs, so any footage released before that process could compromise it in the same way (a fight I would think could quite easily fall into that category).
And what's this rule about tweeting game footage that only applies occasionally, contravention of which incurs a league wide ban?
What's to stop a club banning a fan for posting a negative comment on wherever, until they remove it? After all they get to set the rules, arbitrarily.
Lastly, what if they didn't know who Clantastic was? This ruling only applies to the identifiable.
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
Simply Clantastic!
Posts: 412
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Post by Discoray on Oct 30, 2017 21:20:37 GMT
As for this thing with Clantastic, I can see both sides of the story but he can't play victim when he's the one withholding information. Clan have every right to enforce the ban. If he tells Chalmers and co. who supplied the footage, he'll be allowed back.. simple stuff. So always do whatever the clubs demand of you, or be banned? Don't do something that people do all the time without censure, or be banned? Even more basic than that, it's effectively a ban and/or control exerted on one of the basics of journalism. How many times have very serious situations only came to light via whistle-blowing? It becomes a very slippery-slope from there on in. As someone has already said, there's an internal leak but there always has been, can't be a very long list of people who it could be. Graham or indeed anyone else is perfectly entitled to deny knowledge of their sources, if anything he's at least proved he has one, which is more than I can say for many who claim to be "ITK". Not to mention the utter hypocrisy of it all, with the Clan or the EIHL trying to take any sort of high ground in this (or anything) is utterly laughable. Don't really need to list their own goals showing complete ineptitude of management, there's that many I'd forget a lot of them.
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