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Post by dill1015 on Jul 12, 2017 21:54:01 GMT
To be fair to Dp. It does look just a very solid,but compared to what we are used to,a much cheaper looking roster at the minute. The spin is also there. Just because Corey tells us a player is "super skilled" we don't always see it. Look at Carter,we were told he was dynamite close in round the net.....mmmm he wasn't,he was crap. We were told Sarkanis was super fast.....mmmm,he was fast but it didn't do much good. Hope it works out,but that last forward of real quality is crucial. Well the 2 examples used dont back up your point. Carter did have great hands, but clearly wasnt happy stood in front of net in our league. And we had no play marker next to him (i pet hate of mine from last season). Just because guys dont work out doesnt mean Corey's automatically wrong. Also this years team hasnt got the cv of some guys from previous years. But i dont think it'll be cheaper. Youth costs money. We only get those guys because they are in the downward spiral. This team may flop or it could walk the leauge we just dont know yet. But i think its a tad silly to dismiss it as cheap. I also think out final d man is more crucial to our season as a whole. Defense wins championships.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 22:07:05 GMT
To be fair to Dp. It does look just a very solid,but compared to what we are used to,a much cheaper looking roster at the minute. The spin is also there. Just because Corey tells us a player is "super skilled" we don't always see it. Look at Carter,we were told he was dynamite close in round the net.....mmmm he wasn't,he was crap. We were told Sarkanis was super fast.....mmmm,he was fast but it didn't do much good. Hope it works out,but that last forward of real quality is crucial. Well the 2 examples used dont back up your point. Carter did have great hands, but clearly wasnt happy stood in front of net in our league. And we had no play marker next to him (i pet hate of mine from last season). Just because guys dont work out doesnt mean Corey's automatically wrong. Also this years team fowsnt have the cv of some guys from previous years. But i dont think it'll be cheaper. Youth costs money. We only get those guys because they are in the downward spiral. This team may flop or it could walk the leauge we just dont know yet. But i think its a tad silly to dismiss it as cheap. That's a very good point, sometimes youth costs money as you are paying for the potential, players last their prime sometimes take a cut in money as their stock isn't as sought after like if they were reaching their prime
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,448
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Post by iginla on Jul 12, 2017 22:19:17 GMT
To be fair to Dp. It does look just a very solid,but compared to what we are used to,a much cheaper looking roster at the minute. The spin is also there. Just because Corey tells us a player is "super skilled" we don't always see it. Look at Carter,we were told he was dynamite close in round the net.....mmmm he wasn't,he was crap. We were told Sarkanis was super fast.....mmmm,he was fast but it didn't do much good. Hope it works out,but that last forward of real quality is crucial. Well the 2 examples used dont back up your point. Carter did have great hands, but clearly wasnt happy stood in front of net in our league. And we had no play marker next to him (i pet hate of mine from last season). Just because guys dont work out doesnt mean Corey's automatically wrong. Also this years team fowsnt have the cv of some guys from previous years. But i dont think it'll be cheaper. Youth costs money. We only get those guys because they are in the downward spiral. This team may flop or it could walk the leauge we just dont know yet. But i think its a tad silly to dismiss it as cheap. I'm not dismissing them,I actually think we may go close this year,if we get the quality last forward. But I can't see anything but relatively cheap new players compared to last season. Mcgrattan and Williams were both on serious money and Moran wouldn't be cheap either. Apart from Garnett,we have basically signed just solid ECHL guys and the average wage in that league equates to £475 a week. When you think that Mcgrattan alone was on some four times that on his own,that's a big difference. Youth may cost for a standout player,but we havn't signed those guys,we have signed just standard no frills ECHL guys. Any of our new skaters would look perfectly at home on Coventrys roster and they can't afford expensive rosters. And look at that guy in Edinburgh Mike Cazzola,great ECHL numbers last year....what's he doing there if he was expensive !
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Post by PantherB on Jul 12, 2017 23:41:51 GMT
Well the 2 examples used dont back up your point. Carter did have great hands, but clearly wasnt happy stood in front of net in our league. And we had no play marker next to him (i pet hate of mine from last season). Just because guys dont work out doesnt mean Corey's automatically wrong. Also this years team fowsnt have the cv of some guys from previous years. But i dont think it'll be cheaper. Youth costs money. We only get those guys because they are in the downward spiral. This team may flop or it could walk the leauge we just dont know yet. But i think its a tad silly to dismiss it as cheap. I'm not dismissing them,I actually think we may go close this year,if we get the quality last forward. But I can't see anything but relatively cheap new players compared to last season. Mcgrattan and Williams were both on serious money and Moran wouldn't be cheap either. Apart from Garnett,we have basically signed just solid ECHL guys and the average wage in that league equates to £475 a week. When you think that Mcgrattan alone was on some four times that on his own,that's a big difference. Youth may cost for a standout player,but we havn't signed those guys,we have signed just standard no frills ECHL guys. Any of our new skaters would look perfectly at home on Coventrys roster and they can't afford expensive rosters. And look at that guy in Edinburgh Mike Cazzola,great ECHL numbers last year....what's he doing there if he was expensive ! Bare minimum for any of the guys we signed out of the ECHL would be $500pw, or £390pw. However, the AHL standard salary would see players earn $45,000 per season (£35,000). The ECHL and AHL publish their salary minimums if anyone wants to check it out. Gagnon and Brisebois have been AHL contracted previously, before dropping down to the ECHL so they will not have been on the ECHL low salary obviously and the high earners tend to be around the $1,000pw mark. I'd expect both those guys, as well as Billingsley to have been in the middle ($750) of them being good players but not the go-to key players. Brisebois was in Amiens last season obviously and their lower end salary appears to be around £16,000 for the season, or £485pw. But that's bare minimum again and Brisebois has the AHL and ECHL behind him so expect around the same as his ECHL salary. Bussieres is coming from Ljubljana whom have serious issues with paying players so not much point in guessing what he got but he's got a solid record so far for a 23 year old so I wouldn't expect him to have been that cheap. Mokshansev and Zakharchenko are probably pretty cheap considering the Russian Ruble and whatever the Ukrainian Currency is, is dreadful. Mosey will have been on the standard AHL contract so $45,000 for the season, Rockford had interest in him but simply couldn't make it work and they'd likely have paid the same or increased. He'll be on a decent chunk. Phillips won't be cheap either, 24 on the back of a good season in the Allsvenskan which don't pay too badly and with 4 seasons of AHL hockey under his belt, that doesn't come cheap. Shalla is looking to be a solid goalscorer, something we've missed and something incredibly valuable in this league. I'd expect him to have been pushing the higher limits of the ECHL salary and as Brock Wilson said in the interview with TCW, he advised against the ECHL due to various reasons and mentioned he'd be paid well. Natural goalscorers are rare, he is one, he won't be cheap. Spang will also be on a pretty good wage alongside his University Course, Brown probably not as much as Spang but probably more than he was on last season. Garnett will probably have taken what McGrattan left us, alongside his University Course. No way you get a goalie like him unless you pay big.
I'd say once the last couple guys are signed up we'll be well in the mix for being around the same wages as last season. Our depth guys are signed up and we've got the final spaces in the Top 6 forwards and Top 4 D, they won't be cheap. The pound is worse than it was last season so we'll have to pay more anyway, cost of living is rocketing. Young guys from the ECHL will grab the opportunity with both hands but it's a big move for them to go halfway across the world, so they won't let themselves be taken for a mug with a super cheap wage. Guys like Brine in Cardiff were only super cheap due to living in Croatia and being a couple/three hours away, still close to family and freedom of movement etc.. The numbers are mostly guess work, but not unreasonable guesses.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Jul 13, 2017 6:37:34 GMT
The thing is, it's all about balance. And Corey's (or is it Black's) problem is that they just get obsessed one way or the other - it's either young with potential or old with big resumes. The teams that win it have a bit of both.
I was just having a look through the grand slam winning team for comparison. And in that you've got quite a few players of the calibre we've signed this season - Gallivan, Francis and Graham were all mid-20s with not much above ECHL level behind them and similar stats to some we've signed this season.
But alongside them you had Ling, Beckett and Wilson who had played most of their careers in the AHL, and also known, experienced, proven players in the EIHL like Benedict and Fox.
On top of that you had Weaver - plus Clarke in his prime.
One hope I'm clinging onto this season is Mathieu Roy. Not an amazing resume when they signed him, but a perfect EIHL player in many ways. Although, he WAS coming off the back of an 89 point season in the ECHL. And he'd been captain of his ECHL in his mid 20s so maybe he wasn't so much of a great discovery!
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Post by PantherTom on Jul 13, 2017 8:35:52 GMT
The thing is, it's all about balance. And Corey's (or is it Black's) problem is that they just get obsessed one way or the other - it's either young with potential or old with big resumes. The teams that win it have a bit of both. I was just having a look through the grand slam winning team for comparison. And in that you've got quite a few players of the calibre we've signed this season - Gallivan, Francis and Graham were all mid-20s with not much above ECHL level behind them and similar stats to some we've signed this season. But alongside them you had Ling, Beckett and Wilson who had played most of their careers in the AHL, and also known, experienced, proven players in the EIHL like Benedict and Fox. On top of that you had Weaver - plus Clarke in his prime. One hope I'm clinging onto this season is Mathieu Roy. Not an amazing resume when they signed him, but a perfect EIHL player in many ways. Although, he WAS coming off the back of an 89 point season in the ECHL. And he'd been captain of his ECHL in his mid 20s so maybe he wasn't so much of a great discovery! We didn't have wilson that season, was Beckett, Lepine, Werner, Fox, Lee, Weaver on D
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Post by Rob Scott on Jul 13, 2017 8:46:49 GMT
The thing is, it's all about balance. And Corey's (or is it Black's) problem is that they just get obsessed one way or the other - it's either young with potential or old with big resumes. The teams that win it have a bit of both. I was just having a look through the grand slam winning team for comparison. And in that you've got quite a few players of the calibre we've signed this season - Gallivan, Francis and Graham were all mid-20s with not much above ECHL level behind them and similar stats to some we've signed this season. But alongside them you had Ling, Beckett and Wilson who had played most of their careers in the AHL, and also known, experienced, proven players in the EIHL like Benedict and Fox. On top of that you had Weaver - plus Clarke in his prime. One hope I'm clinging onto this season is Mathieu Roy. Not an amazing resume when they signed him, but a perfect EIHL player in many ways. Although, he WAS coming off the back of an 89 point season in the ECHL. And he'd been captain of his ECHL in his mid 20s so maybe he wasn't so much of a great discovery! We didn't have wilson that season, was Beckett, Lepine, Werner, Fox, Lee, Weaver on D I think DP meant Kelsey Wilson.
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Post by PantherTom on Jul 13, 2017 9:44:31 GMT
We didn't have wilson that season, was Beckett, Lepine, Werner, Fox, Lee, Weaver on D I think DP meant Kelsey Wilson. My bad I forgot about him! "Pray for Ferguson"
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