iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 4, 2017 16:31:18 GMT
That leaves us with the same problem we experienced on Sunday, when we do have to turn to the bench we might as well put Strachan in goal. An injury in a game you can't do much about. But it solves the no1 playing too many games issue and provides healthy competition between the two imports. Realistically,how many times does a goalie get injured in a game (unless it's against Sheffield) ? I can't remember many this season,even with an injury prone Mikka starting in goal.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Apr 4, 2017 16:41:11 GMT
Pacl got injured versus Coventry at the NIC, Green was called on and I think we lost in OT in the end.
It's not just injuries though, Miika has left of his own accord due to a bad day at the office several times. We need to know we can go to the guy on the bench and he'll be able to give us a decent effort, and that's likely to mean we need a Brit, and likely to mean we have to help him keep his eye in.
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gump
Pat Casey
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Post by gump on Apr 4, 2017 17:30:08 GMT
Situation such as this result from the leagues shoe string approach to rosters. Never will be seen as equitable to the euro teams because of the leagues nickel and dime approach to rosters
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Post by pantherdman on Apr 4, 2017 20:28:05 GMT
No thanks. Sign 2 quality imports. Don't give them another excuse to shortchange us.
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BigLad
David Clarke
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Post by BigLad on Apr 5, 2017 12:35:29 GMT
No thanks. Sign 2 quality imports. Don't give them another excuse to shortchange us. But who do you put on the bench? Or are you happy playing an out-skater short?
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Post by pantherdman on Apr 5, 2017 17:14:48 GMT
Oh yes, a quality Brit warming the bench also. Then rotate the imports when they get 'tired'. We've done well this season, just need to upgrade green. Or scrap the import limit which would be even better.
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Mark
Randall Weber
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Post by Mark on Apr 5, 2017 20:12:22 GMT
Sign a decent back up and use him as needed.
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
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Post by meadow on Apr 6, 2017 12:59:50 GMT
Posted this in the Steelers game thread about the approach to netminders:
Apr 3, 2017 1:51:17 GMT 1 meadow said: Have no desire to join in the roasting of Green, but it brings up a bigger issue - this league with the recent changes of four lines, CHL aspirations, better players, supposed increased professionalism etc is now too good a standard to have a contending team with only one goalie who's on the ice for 99% of the playing time.
This isn't 2008 where your starter could have a handful of games with limited action against a ten-man Caps or Bison team. I think its pretty much unheard of in any other level of professional hockey to go by the system we have currently, whereby if your starter is injured and you can't bring in a reasonable replacement (which we're told is getting harder all the time) its essentially season over.
The EIHL either needs to allocate two specific import slots for netminders so they can both see a workload that is comparable to other pro leagues, or stipulate that (like the KHL does for russian teams) X amount of games per year must be started by a non-import goalie, which might in turn lead to EIHL teams finding and developing decent UK goalies like Russell in Braehead. (wishful thinking I know...)
The alternative is where we are now, where our season is over because a guy in his mid-30s, who in Corey's own words is most likely treated as a 'practice goalie' and has barely played a game all season is thrown into a playoff game and lets in some questionable goals.
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Post by Mark Mac on Apr 6, 2017 15:04:36 GMT
Posted this in the Steelers game thread about the approach to netminders: ...stipulate that (like the KHL does for russian teams) X amount of games per year must be started by a non-import goalie, which might in turn lead to EIHL teams finding and developing decent UK goalies like Russell in Braehead. (wishful thinking I know...) This is what I'd like to happen. The only way Brit NMs will develop is if teams are forced to have them. I know that it will lead to having X number of games where we have a rubbish NM for a couple of years, but I want development to occur and I see no other way.
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blair3
Jade Galbraith
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Post by blair3 on Apr 6, 2017 15:46:38 GMT
The problem with signing a British goalie good enough to win you games in the EIHL is firstly the choice is limited. From the EPL Gospel is probably the best option, for much of last year he kept Murdy on the Telford bench and, has already been said in this thread Murdy can win games at this level. But if Gospel were to join where is the incentive? Is he going to get game time? Will he have to give up all work outside the game and take a pay cut for playing hockey as well just so he can sit on the bench? You could understand why that isn't very appealing. If the KHL can enforce a role that states back ups have to play a certain number games why not the EIHL. For example make the Challenge Cup a stand alone competition with no league cross over games and stipulate that the back up starts all games in that competition.
Failing Nottingham going for a British goalie I would like them to consider Jon Baston from Telford. He is a dual national Brit/Finn having played junior hockey in Finland. He has won the EPL the last two years and is very good. I believe he is only 23 and could be a real player to develop, in a similar way to Pacl with the ability to win games now and in a season or two become Nottingham's main starter, not to mention challenging Bowns and Whistle to be GBs number 1.
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Post by pantherlee on Apr 6, 2017 16:00:25 GMT
The problem with all this is the EIHL bosses have stated on many occasions that it is not a development league so they won't introduce rules to accommodate the development of backup/british goalies
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Apr 6, 2017 16:54:18 GMT
The alternative is where we are now, where our season is over because a guy in his mid-30s, who in Corey's own words is most likely treated as a 'practice goalie' and has barely played a game all season is thrown into a playoff game and lets in some questionable goals. I don't really agree that this is the alternative - it's our current alternative, but that's because we've allowed the position to slip. Other clubs have managed the position better and don't have the issue we've got, they have guys they can trust to take a game here and there, if they'd had to bring in their Brit backup on Sunday they'd likely have still won from the position of the game. I've no issue with us saying we're going to take a hit in the CC and always play a young Brit, to try and develop one into something that's more Bowns than Green, but I don't really see why you need a league wide rule to fix an issue that, to me, doesn't affect everyone and for the most part seems entirely self inflicted by the Panthers.
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Post by PantherB on Apr 6, 2017 17:08:49 GMT
The problem with all this is the EIHL bosses have stated on many occasions that it is not a development league so they won't introduce rules to accommodate the development of backup/british goalies They were allegedly looking at an u20's league though, to serve that purpose and to allow for a smooth transition from Juniors to Pro's. But obviously the financial side to creating such a thing wouldn't be sustainable for some teams or most would simply lose money and get little return.
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The Flying Shirt
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 6, 2017 17:38:23 GMT
The problem with all this is the EIHL bosses have stated on many occasions that it is not a development league so they won't introduce rules to accommodate the development of backup/british goalies Nor should it be a development league either but several teams now have very good British backups right now.
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The Flying Shirt
Paul Adey
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 6, 2017 17:41:00 GMT
The problem with all this is the EIHL bosses have stated on many occasions that it is not a development league so they won't introduce rules to accommodate the development of backup/british goalies They were allegedly looking at an u20's league though, to serve that purpose and to allow for a smooth transition from Juniors to Pro's. But obviously the financial side to creating such a thing wouldn't be sustainable for some teams or most would simply lose money and get little return. If it had the same sort of setup that it has now then I am with the EIHL on this as it would be pouring good money after bad.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 6, 2017 18:00:12 GMT
The problem with all this is the EIHL bosses have stated on many occasions that it is not a development league so they won't introduce rules to accommodate the development of backup/british goalies Nor should it be a development league either but several teams now have very good British backups right now. Quite right it shouldn't be a development league,that's what the EPL should be for the EIHL,whether the EPL like that or not. Panthers got themselves into this mess. Yes it would cost them to get a good young Brit who plays in the EPL and probably has a job outside hockey,but if Panthers want that guy then they are going to have to match what the kid is earning. Trouble with Panthers is they want kids to play for free or pay them very very little. Bowns went down exactly that path,learnt his trade in the EPL and look where he is now. Panthers could try getting a goalie coach in several times a season too,we certainly know one in Rasto,that's his job now. It wouldn't exactly cost them a huge amount would it to bring him over say four times a season for a couple of days at a time.
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Post by PantherB on Apr 6, 2017 20:47:43 GMT
Nor should it be a development league either but several teams now have very good British backups right now. Quite right it shouldn't be a development league,that's what the EPL should be for the EIHL,whether the EPL like that or not. Panthers got themselves into this mess. Yes it would cost them to get a good young Brit who plays in the EPL and probably has a job outside hockey,but if Panthers want that guy then they are going to have to match what the kid is earning. Trouble with Panthers is they want kids to play for free or pay them very very little. Bowns went down exactly that path,learnt his trade in the EPL and look where he is now. Panthers could try getting a goalie coach in several times a season too,we certainly know one in Rasto,that's his job now. It wouldn't exactly cost them a huge amount would it to bring him over say four times a season for a couple of days at a time. Don't fancy Greener for the Goalie Coach role then? We know that'll likely happen in some capacity!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 6, 2017 21:06:48 GMT
Quite right it shouldn't be a development league,that's what the EPL should be for the EIHL,whether the EPL like that or not. Panthers got themselves into this mess. Yes it would cost them to get a good young Brit who plays in the EPL and probably has a job outside hockey,but if Panthers want that guy then they are going to have to match what the kid is earning. Trouble with Panthers is they want kids to play for free or pay them very very little. Bowns went down exactly that path,learnt his trade in the EPL and look where he is now. Panthers could try getting a goalie coach in several times a season too,we certainly know one in Rasto,that's his job now. It wouldn't exactly cost them a huge amount would it to bring him over say four times a season for a couple of days at a time. Don't fancy Greener for the Goalie Coach role then? We know that'll likely happen in some capacity! NO....he can be stick boy ! 😐
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
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Post by meadow on Apr 7, 2017 0:48:34 GMT
The alternative is where we are now, where our season is over because a guy in his mid-30s, who in Corey's own words is most likely treated as a 'practice goalie' and has barely played a game all season is thrown into a playoff game and lets in some questionable goals. I don't really agree that this is the alternative - it's our current alternative, but that's because we've allowed the position to slip. Other clubs have managed the position better and don't have the issue we've got, they have guys they can trust to take a game here and there, if they'd had to bring in their Brit backup on Sunday they'd likely have still won from the position of the game. I've no issue with us saying we're going to take a hit in the CC and always play a young Brit, to try and develop one into something that's more Bowns than Green, but I don't really see why you need a league wide rule to fix an issue that, to me, doesn't affect everyone and for the most part seems entirely self inflicted by the Panthers. I think you're right in saying Panthers have brought this on themselves; for a number of reasons Green has been our backup for an extended period of time now, some of which speaks of classic Panthers malaise and penny pinching, and shows how much importance they give to the position - I recall the 'practice goalie' remark was made by Corey about Hartley when he was here, and there was the classic 'its what he does best' comment about Green last year. So obviously its never been a priority for them over the last few years (even when playing Green has arguably cost us games when Kowalski & Wiikman have been injured) to source out a younger, talented Brit goalie to take the backup role. But I don't think our position is as far removed from other teams as you'd imagine. I'd argue that theres only Belfast (Whistle), Cardiff (Murdy) and Braehead (Russell) where you could put the backup in and not see a drop-off that would cause the team to change their style of play at the back. Day at sheffield is the sort of good young goalie we covet over Green, but they've shown they'll only play him in emergencies or in dead rubber, despite a number of shuff fans saying that Mustokovs looks knackered and needs a rest. Also agree with those saying that the EIHL shouldn't be a development league as such. The issue we have is that the EIHL is at, or near, the top of the second tier of Euro pro leagues - France, Italy, Poland, Denmark etc - these days, but those leagues have much better junior systems that underpin them. So the EIHL needs decide how they want to compete with these leagues (not just for trophies, but for players, media coverage, prestige etc) and get away from this unfeasible situation where its one guy playing all of your games or bust, and either take the completely 'professional' route and make some form of allowance for a second import goalie, or force the teams hands by introducing a quota of non-import starts, or the CC being just for non-import goalies as others have suggested, giving an incentive to any EPL-bound Brit talent to come to the EIHL and play a reasonable amount of games. Alternatively, they could always bring back the 20-20 for backups to play in - I seem to remember some young Brit upstart won it last time
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 7, 2017 7:26:46 GMT
How would you feel.....if we were playing Sheffield in the Challenge cup final,their Brit starting goalie went off the ice injured after only 30 seconds and they put the no1 import goalie in goal ?
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Post by PantherB on Apr 7, 2017 11:30:36 GMT
How would you feel.....if we were playing Sheffield in the Challenge cup final,their Brit starting goalie went off the ice injured after only 30 seconds and they put the no1 import goalie in goal ? Coming in cold, opposing goalie would've played all other CC games so should be in reasonable form if they're in the final. Just gotta go for it!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 7, 2017 11:50:10 GMT
How would you feel.....if we were playing Sheffield in the Challenge cup final,their Brit starting goalie went off the ice injured after only 30 seconds and they put the no1 import goalie in goal ? Coming in cold, opposing goalie would've played all other CC games so should be in reasonable form if they're in the final. Just gotta go for it! I'm just not keen on the idea of Brit goalies in the cup. It devalues the cup even further,gives the coaches an even bigger headache and is wide open to abuse,as in my scenario above with a possible feigned injury. If they did go the suggested route though,I hope the cup games would not be on the season ticket. Can't see it happening though anyway,because half the cup games are doubled up with cup/league,so what would we do with those doubled up games......play the Brit kid for 30 minutes then put the no1 import in goal for the second half ! 😂
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Post by GuinnessMan on Apr 7, 2017 12:08:33 GMT
....could you simply have a rule that says back-up have to play at least 300mins of game time, or some such number, and then its down to the individual coaches how they manage those minutes?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Apr 7, 2017 12:16:34 GMT
....could you simply have a rule that says back-up have to play at least 300mins of game time, or some such number, and then its down to the individual coaches how they manage those minutes? Hey I've cracked it. We could play the no1 import every game until the end of November, then when the league title has disappeared again we can put the Brit kid in for the last thirty league games ! 😂😂😂
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Post by dill1015 on Apr 7, 2017 14:18:24 GMT
How would you feel.....if we were playing Sheffield in the Challenge cup final,their Brit starting goalie went off the ice injured after only 30 seconds and they put the no1 import goalie in goal ? Obviously teams would have to bring in a stop gap back up whos also British. Like from the lions or even a rec player. This would be the only way to make some teams didnt find an excuse to get thier import on the ice. I think ghis idea as awhole is intersting. But its not as simple as it sounds.
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