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Post by PantherB on Dec 6, 2016 0:57:45 GMT
Best of luck with it. Like I've seen others say, you'd be best taking it to the top, to one of the Blacks. GM has a way of words and a way to brush things like this under the carpet. Although i do wish it luck, i can't say i'm a fan of the Lord Kitchener esque 'We need YOU' thing. We all know that poster was about going to war, and to some i'm sure it makes the trust look as though it is going to war with Panthers, i.e. causing hate and segregation. Use it with caution if you do continue to use it as initially the trust seemed to aim to make voices heard, now it seems like it wants to burn the current regime to the ground. Again, i wish you guys luck so don't take that as me slating the trust, i'm sure the intentions are to gain the best outcome for all. I'm totally at a loss to find that you think our intentions are to "burn the current regime to the ground"!. Utterly flabbergasted..... We have said many times that this is not about protests, boycotts or removing people from the club. It IS about creating a working relationship with the club and improving communication.
I seriously have absolutely no idea how you have managed to come to your conclusion and I hope that you are in a minority of 1 with that view point. If you are at all interested, which I guess you must be then just give me a call to discuss it as you are honestly miles off in your assessment of what we are trying to do. Rob 07974330553 Do tell me, where did i say "your intentions are to "burn the current regime to the ground"!."?? I'll answer that very question for you. I didn't. The term 'seems' and 'like' suggest uncertainty, uncertainty as to what the aims are to someone who hasn't dug through all of the posts to know in detail what the trust is aiming for, and see's nothing but 'We need YOU' after every loss. So, perhaps reading my actually, non-against the trust post again but making more effort to note the quite apparent uncertainty regarding some aspects i pointed out, perhaps that might see you reply with a bit more respect? Also, I've hightlighted the part of your post which is pretty much all you needed to say, re-assurance against a question i raised and not the alienation you provided. Plus, how does a post which starts with 'Best of luck with it' and finish with 'i'm sure the intentions are to gain the best outcome for all' conclude that i think the trust is aiming to tear down the walls of the organisation and destroy what is? Literally the only aim of my inital post was to raise a point about the Lord Kitchener thing, you know, the thing which was centered around war.
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 6, 2016 7:47:57 GMT
I'm totally at a loss to find that you think our intentions are to "burn the current regime to the ground"!. Utterly flabbergasted..... We have said many times that this is not about protests, boycotts or removing people from the club. It IS about creating a working relationship with the club and improving communication.
I seriously have absolutely no idea how you have managed to come to your conclusion and I hope that you are in a minority of 1 with that view point. If you are at all interested, which I guess you must be then just give me a call to discuss it as you are honestly miles off in your assessment of what we are trying to do. Rob 07974330553 Do tell me, where did i say "your intentions are to "burn the current regime to the ground"!."?? I'll answer that very question for you. I didn't. The term 'seems' and 'like' suggest uncertainty, uncertainty as to what the aims are to someone who hasn't dug through all of the posts to know in detail what the trust is aiming for, and see's nothing but 'We need YOU' after every loss. So, perhaps reading my actually, non-against the trust post again but making more effort to note the quite apparent uncertainty regarding some aspects i pointed out, perhaps that might see you reply with a bit more respect? Also, I've hightlighted the part of your post which is pretty much all you needed to say, re-assurance against a question i raised and not the alienation you provided. Plus, how does a post which starts with 'Best of luck with it' and finish with 'i'm sure the intentions are to gain the best outcome for all' conclude that i think the trust is aiming to tear down the walls of the organisation and destroy what is? Literally the only aim of my inital post was to raise a point about the Lord Kitchener thing, you know, the thing which was centered around war. PantherB thanks for the well wishes. If you want to create an argument with yourself feel free but not on this thread. You won't be derailing this one. If you are actually interested in the trust give me a call on 07974330553 or meet me at the Coventry match. If you are not actually interested then please refrain from posting on this thread again. Kind Regards, Rob
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 7, 2016 12:10:47 GMT
Less than 4 weeks until the next meeting.
If you want to get involved now call or text me on 07974330553
Many thanks
Rob
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Post by spik on Dec 7, 2016 23:01:43 GMT
1) I believe that the poster 'We need you' was/is not a trust creation. However even if it was, I have knowledge of this poster type being used nationwide and not always to infer anything ruthless, rather used to catch peoples eye - tongue in cheek/in jest?
2) Not seen anything to infer anything of friction against the Panthers but more so a positive move for fans and hopefully the club.
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 9, 2016 10:05:57 GMT
We already have lots but I'm looking for at least 2 more volunteers to help with leaflet distribution from 2pm next Sunday before the home game v's Cardiff.
Cheers
Rob
07974330553
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 11, 2016 14:53:01 GMT
If anyone wants to say hello and ask any questions I'll be.
Bunkers pre game.
Legend post game.
Foyer during intermissions.
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 12, 2016 16:11:04 GMT
I'm still looking for at least 2 more volunteers to help with leaflets on Sunday.
Please get in touch.
Cheers
Rob
07974 330553
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 13, 2016 9:44:45 GMT
We've got a decent team of people in place for Sunday now but happy to accept anymore volunteers. The more people we have the more leaflets we can give out.
Give me a call or text to find out what you can do to help.
Cheers
Rob
07974 330553
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 16, 2016 9:30:52 GMT
Leaflets and posters are finished and ready to go. We'll be handing them out from 2pm on Sunday on all approaches to the arena.
Please get in touch today if you can help out.
Thanks
Rob
07974 330553
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 16, 2016 10:26:01 GMT
We have a decent team of people in place for Sunday but could still use 1 or 2 more. If you are interested in helping to make some positive changes at the club please step forward.
Kind Regards,
Rob
07974 330553
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Post by thebestpanthers on Dec 16, 2016 12:03:38 GMT
It looks like this topic is being aired on a number of different threads, which means some very valid points may be missed - It is also clear from these posts that there is still a lot of work to be done to let fans know the full extent and aims of the proposal - Am I right in assuming that if the Trust does get off the ground (which I am sure it will) that unlike the Supporters Club, if the management do not like it they do not have the power to disband it, like they did the SC. Like many fans one of the main issues is the lack of information from the club. I know some things need to be private, but others it would be nice to get just a bit of info. Hopefully, as I believe this will be one of the aims of the ST who should have access to the club management to put the fans concerns and points of view to them, and also listen to the clubs views. Hopefully I will make it to the meeting on 2nd.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 12:26:11 GMT
1.1 To be a unified voice for the fans - Not all fans think the same, never will. This is impossible. I think you're misreading the use of unified, of course not all fans will think the same, but if you have an entity that represents X fans under a single umbrella, and the majority of X thinks a certain issue needs addressing, then the entity can present that to the club as a single voice. That's more likely to be heard - due both to the weight of the voices it represents and a government backed requirement - than individual fans asking. Obviously the size of X is then very important. 1.2 To promote closer ties between the club and its supporters through regular dialogue - What does this mean? What is it exactly you are wanting to know from the club? It's vague and I've not seen it explained in greater detail elsewhere. Maybe it was explained at one of the meetings but people shouldn't have to attend them to find this information. The specifics will become apparent over time. The ST isn't being set up because at the moment the team's a bit iffy, it should still be in place years down the line, when the current struggles are a distant memory. My main issue is that it shouldn't have the heavy push (coinciding this with us being a bit iffy makes it a good time for a heavy push I admit as people are more up for this kind of thing) it's gotten if specifics aren't available, it's in a sense asking people to jump in kind of blind with the promise of positive change. I'm not pro or anti the Trust right now (I believe I have made that clear), I just need more facts without the need to text or call somebody to clarify things, which is why I have said it's not for me. I open for that viewpoint to change. Knowing that there is a website coming will help with this that's going to contain specifics and FAQ's does help.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 12:54:47 GMT
I never said you were wrong... I do find it hard to believe that if you have gone to that effort you still don't get what it is. You can't teach those that don't want to listen I guess. Think you are being a bit harsh here NYR. We don't need to know the full in and outs of what the trust is,but it's a good thing and it's a start. As I see it.its a reasoned voice for the fans which will hopefully engage the club into doing more towards what the fans want to see and hear. Yes it's similar to a supporters club I guess,but it carries more weight and is more likely to be listened to by the club management. I don't really see how any fan wouldn't want to get behind it really,especially anybody who wants to see change. It certainly seems there are a lot of people who want that change,including you NYR. Put it this way,Todd Kelman likes the idea and I don't think there's a single Panthers fan around who doesn't admire and support what he brings to the EIHL table. Saying it's a good thing and a start isn't exactly reflective of the situation. How do we know it's a good thing? What are the long term aims? These are things that need to be addressed and that there should already be answers out there too before such a heavy push is put forth. As in the post above (if it's still above and someone hasn't posted something else in here haha) I'm looking forward to the website going live so I can make a more informed decision.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Dec 16, 2016 13:01:20 GMT
I see your point re the current push coinciding with our poor period, but on the other hand I believe it's a requirement of setting up a trust that you do everything you can to make people aware of it, so as many people as possible can have their say as to whether one should, or should not, be set up to begin with. A few blokes can't just decide they've set one up. As I understand it (and Rob Scott can correct if wrong), I don't think there are any aims. What's trying to be setup isn't offering any sort of cause or message to back, it's offering a method through which those things can be communicated to the club in future, and which I believe the club will at the very least have a duty to listen to. What the messages/causes turn out to be will be down to the eventual membership of the Trust. So you're not really being asked to take any sort of blind faith step, but more whether you want to be a part of a group of fans, which will then be able to decide what's important to it etc.
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 16, 2016 13:06:09 GMT
I've just taken this from the website. What is a Supporters Trust? A supporters’ trust is a democratic, not for profit organisation that aims to strengthen the relationship and influence of fans with the club they support. More information on other trusts (over 180 in the UK today) and detailed case studies can be found on the Supporters Direct website – www.supporters-direct.orgIsn’t a trust about owning the club? Many trusts do indeed seek to gain a level of equity, full or part-ownership, as both a safeguarding measure and to strengthen influence at board level. That is not to say, however, that a trust cannot have influence without owning some of the club they represent – many trusts can and continue to operate without any ownership stake. How does a trust differ from a supporters club? The main difference concerns the way in which a supporters trust is set up and operate. Supporters clubs exist to promote the support of their associated club. Supporters trusts operate to clearly stated objectives relating to strengthening the links between the clubs ownership with the community of supporters; seeking to influence the operations of the club; seeking opportunities for representation by operating as a professional and credible body of supporters. Trusts are supported by a legal and constitutional framework that makes the achievement of these objectives possible. The setting up of any supporters trust is recognised and governed by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA). Can trusts make a difference? Trusts are gaining significant exposure at all levels, with the government putting significant support into the growth of their influence across multiple sports in the UK. Supporters Direct regularly meet with the current Minister for Sport. In other sports the leagues and governing bodies are beginning to bring in their own rules over clubs needing to engage with trusts. The momentum, and influence, is growing. Why propose a Panthers Trust and what are we seeking to achieve? The proposal to consider forming a Nottingham Panthers Supporters Trust came about through a desire to channel the huge amount of positive intent many supporters have across the fan base into something cohesive and collaborative. Although trusts differ massively to supporters’ clubs, it was also recognised that Panthers no longer have any organised supporters group of any kind since NPSC ceased operating; so there is no possibility of any conflict of interests. We want to make a positive difference to the operation of the club and in how the club engages with the core of its supporters. We recognise that this is a “long-haul” process. It will take time and effort to move forward; starting with small steps and looking to develop opportunities for improvement and engagement. We have already engaged with Supporters Direct and will be working with their help and support in moving forward. We have also made contact with other groups, including the emerging Nottingham Forest Supporters Trust. The legal standing around a supporters trust requires the club to engage; the formality of the set-up means that the club cannot ignore a trust – there has to be engagement. We clearly want this to be positive on both sides. The proposed Nottingham Panthers Supporters Trust is not a re-badged supporters club, it is not a protest motivated activity. It will be about seeking positive improvement and change. In any club or business operation if you are not improving you are going backwards in relation to other clubs or the competition. I’m interested, how do I get involved and what can I do? Firstly, come along on to the next meeting on 2nd January. We’ll talk more about what forming a trust would take and how we might look to move forward if there is enough support to do so. A trust needs all sorts of help and expertise, and it is all welcomed. You can follow us on twitter (@npsupporters) to stay up to date and contact rob@pantherstrust.co.uk in the interim if you have questions that cannot wait. We hope to see you on 2nd Jan, upstairs at Bunkers Hill from 6pm.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 14:48:40 GMT
I see your point re the current push coinciding with our poor period, but on the other hand I believe it's a requirement of setting up a trust that you do everything you can to make people aware of it, so as many people as possible can have their say as to whether one should, or should not, be set up to begin with. A few blokes can't just decide they've set one up. As I understand it (and Rob Scott can correct if wrong), I don't think there are any aims. What's trying to be setup isn't offering any sort of cause or message to back, it's offering a method through which those things can be communicated to the club in future, and which I believe the club will at the very least have a duty to listen to. What the messages/causes turn out to be will be down to the eventual membership of the Trust. So you're not really being asked to take any sort of blind faith step, but more whether you want to be a part of a group of fans, which will then be able to decide what's important to it etc. Don't get me wrong it's very smart to push it during a time we're a bit iffy, gets eyes on the Trust and then it's still in peoples minds when/if form turns around. I just don't think it should have been pushed without a full agenda of it's aims. Catch-22 situation I give you based on your second point about needing the thing established before any aims/goals/causes can be set.
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Post by spik on Dec 16, 2016 21:46:48 GMT
It's basically an option to turn up and listen, take part and obviously learn for yourself what it's all about.No one will know less they 'listen in' I quess. Not heard anything negative as yet about the whole thing. It's a group of fans wanting to take interest in the sport/club they love.Who'd want to try a stop that?
I could meet a number of fans and call it what I'd like. We could discuss the facts, rumours and such and give it a name,meet in the local boozer - who could stop that?
However the trust is an option to show support to the club, rather than any opposition. Just wanting to be heard at most...What better thing than the fans holing out their hands wanting to embrace a relationship.It's not a 'takeover', that can't happen. It's an oppertunity for the club too,even if they can't/won't see it.
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 17, 2016 11:41:19 GMT
5000+ leaflets are printed, packed and ready to go out before Sunday's game.
If you are handed one and don't wish to keep it please discard it properly or hand it back to one of the distributors.
If you would like to help with the distribution please get in touch today.
Cheers
Rob
07974 330553
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 17:26:53 GMT
It's basically an option to turn up and listen, take part and obviously learn for yourself what it's all about.No one will know less they 'listen in' I quess. Not heard anything negative as yet about the whole thing. It's a group of fans wanting to take interest in the sport/club they love.Who'd want to try a stop that? I could meet a number of fans and call it what I'd like. We could discuss the facts, rumours and such and give it a name,meet in the local boozer - who could stop that? However the trust is an option to show support to the club, rather than any opposition. Just wanting to be heard at most...What better thing than the fans holing out their hands wanting to embrace a relationship.It's not a 'takeover', that can't happen. It's an oppertunity for the club too,even if they can't/won't see it. I don't think anyone would want to try and stop it (not from the fan base anyway) and as you said I've not seen any negativity about it either. All I and I imagine some others would like is more information so an informed decision can be made. As an aside question, not aimed at you Spik unless you know the answer, how come this kind of thing is more prevalent on these shores (particularly in football) than in other places? The Green Bay Packers are the obvious exception to this (but that's a fan ownership group in necessity to keep the team where it is from what I can see).
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Post by kievthegreat on Dec 17, 2016 20:34:44 GMT
I'd imagine a big part of it is that sports teams, especially football are viewed as integral parts of the community where they reside and much less as commercial entities. Obviously the huge influx of wealth into football has changed that in lots of clubs, but the attitudes among the fanbases are harder to change.
I think Sir Bobby Robson summed up this sentiment best,
"What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love."
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 17, 2016 20:56:07 GMT
I'd imagine a big part of it is that sports teams, especially football are viewed as integral parts of the community where they reside and much less as commercial entities. Obviously the huge influx of wealth into football has changed that in lots of clubs, but the attitudes among the fanbases are harder to change. I think Sir Bobby Robson summed up this sentiment best, "What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love." Wonderful stuff KTG. Clubs sometimes need a little reminder about what they are here for.
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Post by spik on Dec 17, 2016 22:22:54 GMT
It's basically an option to turn up and listen, take part and obviously learn for yourself what it's all about.No one will know less they 'listen in' I quess. Not heard anything negative as yet about the whole thing. It's a group of fans wanting to take interest in the sport/club they love.Who'd want to try a stop that? I could meet a number of fans and call it what I'd like. We could discuss the facts, rumours and such and give it a name,meet in the local boozer - who could stop that? However the trust is an option to show support to the club, rather than any opposition. Just wanting to be heard at most...What better thing than the fans holing out their hands wanting to embrace a relationship.It's not a 'takeover', that can't happen. It's an oppertunity for the club too,even if they can't/won't see it. I don't think anyone would want to try and stop it (not from the fan base anyway) and as you said I've not seen any negativity about it either. All I and I imagine some others would like is more information so an informed decision can be made. As an aside question, not aimed at you Spik unless you know the answer, how come this kind of thing is more prevalent on these shores (particularly in football) than in other places? The Green Bay Packers are the obvious exception to this (but that's a fan ownership group in necessity to keep the team where it is from what I can see). Plus a team doing well, 'on the crest of a wave' at the moment - ok its a little ripple at the moment....Leciester City Football Club are in this position of having a trust.. But just to say, if you want more information apart from ftm throwing the open door many times on here for us all to call him, it's attend a meeting I suppose.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Dec 18, 2016 9:46:15 GMT
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 18, 2016 10:05:44 GMT
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 18, 2016 11:29:04 GMT
Leaflet drop today.
Give me a call with any questions.
07974 330553
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