Paul
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 425
|
Post by Paul on Aug 21, 2016 17:45:56 GMT
The problem with a period boycott is that they've already got your money & if it is all about the bottom line to the management then they're not going to care if there's more people in the concourse than the stands.
The biggest problem for me is the club's lack of interaction with us the fans. Send them an email, DM, whatever and you get no reply & nothing makes you more disillusioned than being ignored. Tweet a picture of some flowers and they're all over you, ask a question and it seems to me they don't want to know (trust me there was nothing contentious about the questions I asked).
So what can we do? In truth I don't know. The disenfranchised are a relatively small number compared to those that see nothing wrong.Having said all that if something is to be done it needs to be coordinated. A united front is essential. Work out what is wanted and take it to Neil Black. It might not be the right place, although I doubt that he is the problem, but it'll let the man at the top know what a lot of people see is wrong with their club. If it is still our club.
|
|
|
Post by PantherB on Aug 21, 2016 18:06:25 GMT
A boycott is a pathetic thing to attempt or proceed to do, i've seen fans on Twitter from other teams, who've seen the suggestions and it's safe to say that we're slowly becoming a massive laughing stock with all these attempts to get back at Panthers.
As others have said, it wouldn't work. The absense of less than a hundred wouldn't have any impact and there'd be no way that more would do it.
How old is GM? You'd think he wouldn't have too many years of employment left in him but he does seem to be the sort of person who will not leave his position until he's taken away in a body bag. GM is very much the problem, sure, he's done a lot of good work and got us to where we are today but of a fan experience side of things, he's terrible, he's very much still stuck in the past and has the ignorance of most people from his generation. As long as the books are looking healthy he's considered to have done a good job, in Neil Black's eyes anyway. It's seen as little other than a business, i know every team in sport is a business but most put the fan experience and overall treatment and interaction with the community slightly ahead of focusing on ensuring there's a big wad to bank in come April.
The things the NHL teams, AHL, ECHL teams do is brilliant really. They hold special game nights, with ticket deals where you get 4 tickets, a team t-shirt, 10% off in the team store or something else for like $60/£48. They hold the bobblehead nights, where the first 200 or so people through the door get a free bobblehead of a player. They give back to the fans, not every game but quite often over a season and that's where we, and other EIHL teams are going wrong.. They have to spend a little to make coming to games more attractive.
As soon as the Office staff inc. GM are done, we need a younger influence, people who know how to communicate and know what fans like, want and would appreciate.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Aug 21, 2016 19:01:31 GMT
A boycott is a pathetic thing to attempt or proceed to do, i've seen fans on Twitter from other teams, who've seen the suggestions and it's safe to say that we're slowly becoming a massive laughing stock with all these attempts to get back at Panthers. As others have said, it wouldn't work. The absense of less than a hundred wouldn't have any impact and there'd be no way that more would do it. How old is GM? You'd think he wouldn't have too many years of employment left in him but he does seem to be the sort of person who will not leave his position until he's taken away in a body bag. GM is very much the problem, sure, he's done a lot of good work and got us to where we are today but of a fan experience side of things, he's terrible, he's very much still stuck in the past and has the ignorance of most people from his generation. As long as the books are looking healthy he's considered to have done a good job, in Neil Black's eyes anyway. It's seen as little other than a business, i know every team in sport is a business but most put the fan experience and overall treatment and interaction with the community slightly ahead of focusing on ensuring there's a big wad to bank in come April. The things the NHL teams, AHL, ECHL teams do is brilliant really. They hold special game nights, with ticket deals where you get 4 tickets, a team t-shirt, 10% off in the team store or something else for like $60/£48. They hold the bobblehead nights, where the first 200 or so people through the door get a free bobblehead of a player. They give back to the fans, not every game but quite often over a season and that's where we, and other EIHL teams are going wrong.. They have to spend a little to make coming to games more attractive. As soon as the Office staff inc. GM are done, we need a younger influence, people who know how to communicate and know what fans like, want and would appreciate. Not a bad post that Pantherb,I agree with a lot of it.......however The boycott worked at the Braehead cup game. There would normally have been probably 4000 there instead of the 1500 ish that actually were. I think you underestimate the number of disgruntled Panthers fans or the power of social media,it wasn't coincidence that that game was by an absolute country mile the worst attendance ever at the NIC for a league or cup game ! I seem to remember the Cardiff fans staging several protests or boycotts too....and look how it changed their fortunes. Sports fans have a lot of power if they use it correctly !
|
|
dp
Jim Keyes
Posts: 966
|
Post by dp on Aug 21, 2016 19:30:32 GMT
Work out what is wanted and take it to Neil Black. It might not be the right place, although I doubt that he is the problem, but it'll let the man at the top know what a lot of people see is wrong with their club. If it is still our club. This is the bit I always doubt. Who employs GM? Black does. Who sets GM's targets? Black. I'd be amazed if it wasn't the case that GM's targets for the year were based on profit. I can't imagine GM has an objective of "win the league at all costs even if it sends us bust". As far as I can see, GM is just doing what he's being asked to do. The players arriving a week or two later probably saves Black twenty grand or so. Playing an import short the same. And neither have any impact on revenue - so, from a business perspective, why wouldn't you do it? And as we can see, we finish 5th and we average higher attendances than we did when we won the league. I think us winning is an added bonus. I'm absolutely convinced that the reason they love Corey so much is not because he's a yes man, or that he's cheap or whatever, but it's because he knows how to over-achieve on a lower budget. That's not to say GM is perfect -he's not at all, and he's seriously out of touch and out of date - but if Black told him to spend big to win the league regardless of profit then I'm sure things would be very different.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Aug 21, 2016 20:21:50 GMT
Work out what is wanted and take it to Neil Black. It might not be the right place, although I doubt that he is the problem, but it'll let the man at the top know what a lot of people see is wrong with their club. If it is still our club. This is the bit I always doubt. Who employs GM? Black does. Who sets GM's targets? Black. I'd be amazed if it wasn't the case that GM's targets for the year were based on profit. I can't imagine GM has an objective of "win the league at all costs even if it sends us bust". As far as I can see, GM is just doing what he's being asked to do. The players arriving a week or two later probably saves Black twenty grand or so. Playing an import short the same. And neither have any impact on revenue - so, from a business perspective, why wouldn't you do it? And as we can see, we finish 5th and we average higher attendances than we did when we won the league. I think us winning is an added bonus. I'm absolutely convinced that the reason they love Corey so much is not because he's a yes man, or that he's cheap or whatever, but it's because he knows how to over-achieve on a lower budget. That's not to say GM is perfect -he's not at all, and he's seriously out of touch and out of date - but if Black told him to spend big to win the league regardless of profit then I'm sure things would be very different. I agree with you Dp. And none of us wants to see the Steelers "win and go bust mentality" at Panthers. Nobody would begrudge Mr Black making a healthy profit,but surely there has to be a happy medium to be found. With the relatively small difference in wages between an average quality import and a quality one,surely Panthers are able to sign much better than they do. If you look at an average Panthers import he will earn around £600 to £700 a week,but if you want a Kolnik or Spang it will be more like £900 to £1000 a week. So for say £300 a week more (only 25-30 match tickets worth) look at what you get,over a 30 week season that's only £9k per player. Even if you had FIVE or SIX players of Kolnik/Spang quality,that's only an extra £50k over a season,but what a difference it would make. In the grand scheme of things £50k wouldn't even put much of a dent in Panthers profits.
|
|
Fez
Lorne Smith
Posts: 651
|
Post by Fez on Aug 22, 2016 17:22:09 GMT
To answer the thread title, go watch the Lions. Even better, go and volunteer for the Lions. Build something together.
The Panthers were created out of nothing in 1980 and in 6 seasons they had won a cup, playoffs in 9. Anyone around at that time would tell you they got more fun out of watching something grow with local lads and a few high quality imports than they do from watching these ever-changing journeymen.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,405
|
Post by Yotes on Aug 22, 2016 19:12:36 GMT
Maybe we just need to get organised? Set up a formal group, club, whatever. With some specific pre agreed aims and a set out plan of how to achieve them. That'd be the way to go. Most football clubs will have supporters' trusts. If you could get enough people to join it then being able to put forward ideas in the name of however many fans would surely have to be listened to. Obviously the running of it would be hard work but if it's something people felt strongly enough about you'd do it.
|
|
|
Post by texpef on Aug 22, 2016 22:33:48 GMT
Panthers used to have a booster club until allegedly it was seen to make too much money so the panthers management thought we want some of that and forced it to disband.. IF there is money to be made from this you cant bet the club will stop it and do it themselves..
|
|
|
Post by PantherB on Aug 22, 2016 22:42:04 GMT
Panthers used to have a booster club until allegedly it was seen to make too much money so the panthers management thought we want some of that and forced it to disband.. IF there is money to be made from this you cant bet the club will stop it and do it themselves.. its like Panthers Travel, they do a great job and I go with them a lot so I know them quite well but when they were created GM swore blindly that they were 'completely independent' from the club.. GM's known the main person who runs it for years, and years. Whilst I know they won't make much profit if any, it's just the fact he forced the liquidation of the Supporters Club and bought in this new 'independent' travel club.. It's as if he though the supporters club made a big profit and wanted it to go directly into pockets, only to then realise there isn't much money in it but he could control it and be the man behind it, so he's kept it running.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Aug 22, 2016 23:33:43 GMT
Panthers used to have a booster club until allegedly it was seen to make too much money so the panthers management thought we want some of that and forced it to disband.. IF there is money to be made from this you cant bet the club will stop it and do it themselves.. its like Panthers Travel, they do a great job and I go with them a lot so I know them quite well but when they were created GM swore blindly that they were 'completely independent' from the club.. GM's known the main person who runs it for years, and years. Whilst I know they won't make much profit if any, it's just the fact he forced the liquidation of the Supporters Club and bought in this new 'independent' travel club.. It's as if he though the supporters club made a big profit and wanted it to go directly into pockets, only to then realise there isn't much money in it but he could control it and be the man behind it, so he's kept it running. GM saw the supporters club had a fair whack of money in the bank and wanted it,so he made it virtually impossible for them to carry on,that's what happened. In a way he was right that they shouldn't have been sitting on that much money. But what should have happened,was that the money should never have built up to such an extent,it should have been used much earlier to subsidise future travel rather than let GM get his sticky mitts on it !
|
|
|
Post by Rob Scott on Aug 23, 2016 10:20:14 GMT
Ok, so, I have done some research into the setting up and running of a supporters trust.
In British sports, a supporters' trust is a formal, democratic and not-for-profit organisation of fans who attempt to strengthen the influence of supporters over the running of the club they support. There are over 140 supporters' trusts across England, Wales and Scotland and the majority of these are affiliated to football clubs, however trusts also exist for Rugby League and Rugby Union clubs.
I'm 100% up for committing some time and money into this. Who is with me?
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Aug 23, 2016 11:09:20 GMT
Ok, so, I have done some research into the setting up and running of a supporters trust. In British sports, a supporters' trust is a formal, democratic and not-for-profit organisation of fans who attempt to strengthen the influence of supporters over the running of the club they support. There are over 140 supporters' trusts across England, Wales and Scotland and the majority of these are affiliated to football clubs, however trusts also exist for Rugby League and Rugby Union clubs.I'm 100% up for committing some time and money into this. Who is with me? I'm in.
|
|
|
Post by cjmatt42 on Aug 23, 2016 11:50:57 GMT
Ok, so, I have done some research into the setting up and running of a supporters trust. In British sports, a supporters' trust is a formal, democratic and not-for-profit organisation of fans who attempt to strengthen the influence of supporters over the running of the club they support. There are over 140 supporters' trusts across England, Wales and Scotland and the majority of these are affiliated to football clubs, however trusts also exist for Rugby League and Rugby Union clubs.I'm 100% up for committing some time and money into this. Who is with me? Think this is the only way that the club can begin to be accountable to the supporters. Without some real opposition / a unified group challenging the establishment nothing will change and we will continue to be the same under achieving club we have for years.
|
|
|
Post by Rob Scott on Aug 23, 2016 11:53:26 GMT
Ok, so, I have done some research into the setting up and running of a supporters trust. In British sports, a supporters' trust is a formal, democratic and not-for-profit organisation of fans who attempt to strengthen the influence of supporters over the running of the club they support. There are over 140 supporters' trusts across England, Wales and Scotland and the majority of these are affiliated to football clubs, however trusts also exist for Rugby League and Rugby Union clubs.I'm 100% up for committing some time and money into this. Who is with me? Think this is the only way that the club can begin to be accountable to the supporters. Without some real opposition / a unified group challenging the establishment nothing will change and we will continue to be the same under achieving club we have for years. Yep! You in?
|
|
|
Post by cjmatt42 on Aug 23, 2016 11:55:20 GMT
Think this is the only way that the club can begin to be accountable to the supporters. Without some real opposition / a unified group challenging the establishment nothing will change and we will continue to be the same under achieving club we have for years. Yep! You in? Sounds a plan!
|
|
|
Post by Stargazer on Aug 23, 2016 12:10:33 GMT
Ok, so, I have done some research into the setting up and running of a supporters trust. In British sports, a supporters' trust is a formal, democratic and not-for-profit organisation of fans who attempt to strengthen the influence of supporters over the running of the club they support. There are over 140 supporters' trusts across England, Wales and Scotland and the majority of these are affiliated to football clubs, however trusts also exist for Rugby League and Rugby Union clubs.I'm 100% up for committing some time and money into this. Who is with me? I'm not a freqent Poster by any means, but having said that I have voiced opinions about my personal dissatisfaction with the club several times, a club that I am extremely passionate about! I would be more than happy to sign up to this with you FTM. I'm not sure about the level of positive impact that can be achieved from it but I am more than willing to help and try.
|
|
|
Post by ted logan on Aug 23, 2016 13:52:27 GMT
Ok, so, I have done some research into the setting up and running of a supporters trust. In British sports, a supporters' trust is a formal, democratic and not-for-profit organisation of fans who attempt to strengthen the influence of supporters over the running of the club they support. There are over 140 supporters' trusts across England, Wales and Scotland and the majority of these are affiliated to football clubs, however trusts also exist for Rugby League and Rugby Union clubs.I'm 100% up for committing some time and money into this. Who is with me? Logan's in!
|
|
|
Post by Rob Scott on Aug 23, 2016 14:40:55 GMT
Thanks to all of you who have said they will get involved so far.
I've got a venue lined up for an initial meeting, once we've seen how much interest is raised on here in the next day or so I will look to give the trust a formal name and then see if we can launch it on Twitter and Facebook to gain more members.
|
|
|
Post by texpef on Aug 23, 2016 14:51:12 GMT
Sounds a plan ftm, but it would need clearly defined goals and not an agenda/chip otherwise it will fail from the off. I guess if its going down the democratic route this would need to be agreed by the majority and have defined endpoints..
But in principle I think its a good idea...
|
|
|
Post by Rob Scott on Aug 23, 2016 14:57:09 GMT
Sounds a plan ftm, but it would need clearly defined goals and not an agenda/chip otherwise it will fail from the off. I guess if its going down the democratic route this would need to be agreed by the majority and have defined endpoints.. But in principle I think its a good idea... Exactly and glad to have you on board. I want this to be a vehicle for positive change rather than a way of having a dig at the club or any individuals.
|
|
|
Post by Rob Scott on Aug 23, 2016 15:03:01 GMT
So far the following are in.
FTM The Flying Shirt cjmatt42 Stargazer Ted Logan Jono#72 Texpef
|
|
|
Post by mattscold on Aug 23, 2016 15:04:14 GMT
I will help out where i can.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,405
|
Post by Yotes on Aug 23, 2016 16:38:40 GMT
Count me in too.
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Aug 23, 2016 19:20:40 GMT
Reporting for duty!
|
|
|
Post by BlogFromBlock15! on Aug 23, 2016 20:42:46 GMT
Ok, so, I have done some research into the setting up and running of a supporters trust. In British sports, a supporters' trust is a formal, democratic and not-for-profit organisation of fans who attempt to strengthen the influence of supporters over the running of the club they support. There are over 140 supporters' trusts across England, Wales and Scotland and the majority of these are affiliated to football clubs, however trusts also exist for Rugby League and Rugby Union clubs.I'm 100% up for committing some time and money into this. Who is with me? Count me in.
|
|