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Post by tootootrain on Dec 17, 2013 14:17:58 GMT
No Danny isn't bringing the game into disrepute, these sort of things are said all the time to stir rivalries up and what Danny said may be ill advised but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the same level as to the crying Finnerty did on live tv I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one Full agree, if Finnerty is guilty of bringing the game into disrepute Stewart is equally. You could actually excuse Finnerty's comments a little as they were made in the heat of the moment, when emotions would have been high. The Fife PR on the other hand has been made in the cold light of day, making light of an injury caused by a player who has since received a significant ban for his actions. Fife have always had an air of'older statesman' about them, conducting themselves in a manner befitting one of the oldest teams in the UK. Seems they are trying to shake off the respect many opposition fans have for them by acting like a petulant child.
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Post by tootootrain on Dec 17, 2013 14:30:35 GMT
The Elite league is going non contact so that we can attempt to join with European teams to for a Euro league. fact. Link to evidence? Will that be the IIHF rule book? The one the EIHL already use? So do all 'euro' leagues wear full face masks then? Bans are about punishing offenses, not just for causing injuries. Not everyone's metabolism is the same, some people recover from injuries comparable to those sustained by others quicker. Are you suggesting a potentially healthy player should have to sit out for an equal amount of time to the person who injured them? I actually agree with you!
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BigLad
David Clarke
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Post by BigLad on Dec 17, 2013 15:34:51 GMT
I actually agree with you! +1
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ab74
Jade Galbraith
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Post by ab74 on Dec 17, 2013 15:53:56 GMT
Meh, 12 games for what I see on that video is harsh. Repeat offender or not you see handbags like that every game.
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
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Post by 5+game on Dec 17, 2013 15:54:18 GMT
Nickerson got lucky. Shawn Thornton just got 15 games for a face wash. Hardly a face wash, he knocked him out cold and hasn't played since.
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Post by panthersdave on Dec 17, 2013 15:54:49 GMT
I actually agree with you! +1 So. A hockey game takes a couple of hours. Potentially 5 games on Saturday and 5 more on Sunday. One person doing the reviews - if you had more then fans would call it inconsistent. See where I am going with this?.....
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Post by Cardarelli27 on Dec 17, 2013 16:08:07 GMT
Oh what a shame. All the post game whining to the Elite League by Fife has come back to bite them in the backside. As for the press release, it is stupidly unprofessional and would be mortified if Panthers released something like that. Can you show me the post game whining by Flyers to the Elite league because as a Flyers fan I didn't see any after this game. The only whining I saw was by Frank, who tried to con people that there was an eye gouge when there clearly wasn't, and by Finnerty who went on live tv and said Nickerson should be thrown out of the league. Now to me that is trying to influence Hansons decision and is bringing the game into disrepute by doing so and should be equally dealt with. I do agree with you about Danny Stewart in the statement although it also made me smile My point was in regards to Fifes frequent use of the referral system this season.
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Post by tootootrain on Dec 17, 2013 16:38:04 GMT
So. A hockey game takes a couple of hours. Potentially 5 games on Saturday and 5 more on Sunday. One person doing the reviews - if you had more then fans would call it inconsistent. See where I am going with this?..... Nope, not at all. Do you think Shanaban watches every single NHL game? Nope, he has a number of officials review games before forwarding potentially contentious decisions/incidents onto him for final say. Fact is, with team initiated reviews, ulterior motive can affect whether a review is called or not. It could be that requesting a review will make the offending team weaker against, say, a team in second place who are challenging for your top spot? What would you do?
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Post by panthersdave on Dec 17, 2013 16:48:53 GMT
So. A hockey game takes a couple of hours. Potentially 5 games on Saturday and 5 more on Sunday. One person doing the reviews - if you had more then fans would call it inconsistent. See where I am going with this?..... Nope, not at all. Do you think Shanaban watches every single NHL game? Nope, he has a number of officials review games before forwarding potentially contentious decisions/incidents onto him for final say. Fact is, with team initiated reviews, ulterior motive can affect whether a review is called or not. It could be that requesting a review will make the offending team weaker against, say, a team in second place who are challenging for your top spot? What would you do? But who in this country would we get to help Hanson out? Simms? Kirkham? Me? You? I think Shanaban has more resource at his disposal. Otherwise we are asking Hanson to work a 20 hour weekend. I agree its not ideal as it is but its all we have.
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BigLad
David Clarke
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Post by BigLad on Dec 17, 2013 16:50:12 GMT
Nope, not at all. Do you think Shanaban watches every single NHL game? Nope, he has a number of officials review games before forwarding potentially contentious decisions/incidents onto him for final say. Fact is, with team initiated reviews, ulterior motive can affect whether a review is called or not. It could be that requesting a review will make the offending team weaker against, say, a team in second place who are challenging for your top spot? What would you do? But who in this country would we get to help Hanson out? Simms? Kirkham? Me? You? I think Shanaban has more resource at his disposal. Otherwise we are asking Hanson to work a 20 hour weekend. I agree its not ideal as it is but its all we have. Why not have the officials from the game itself review it after the game is done?? Then refer any serious incidents to Hanson themselves...
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Post by panthersdave on Dec 17, 2013 16:52:22 GMT
But who in this country would we get to help Hanson out? Simms? Kirkham? Me? You? I think Shanaban has more resource at his disposal. Otherwise we are asking Hanson to work a 20 hour weekend. I agree its not ideal as it is but its all we have. Why not have the officials from the game itself review it after the game is done?? Then refer any serious incidents to Hanson themselves... Now thats actually a good shout. They may ask for a bit more match fee but it might be worth it
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Post by tootootrain on Dec 17, 2013 16:56:33 GMT
But who in this country would we get to help Hanson out? Simms? Kirkham? Me? You? What is wrong with using the on-ice officials? Not to review their own games of course but those of colleagues. Its called 'the peer review process', we do it all the time in nursing, is it beyond the abilities of the EIHL to carry out such a process? Why would this be any worse than the status quo? It has the potential to be much better though.
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Post by panthersdave on Dec 17, 2013 17:11:01 GMT
But who in this country would we get to help Hanson out? Simms? Kirkham? Me? You? What is wrong with using the on-ice officials? Not to review their own games of course but those of colleagues. Its called 'the peer review process', we do it all the time in nursing, is it beyond the abilities of the EIHL to carry out such a process? Why would this be any worse than the status quo? It has the potential to be much better though. Yeah, dont see why they shouldnt try it
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Post by harlan on Dec 17, 2013 17:17:17 GMT
Can you show me the post game whining by Flyers to the Elite league because as a Flyers fan I didn't see any after this game. The only whining I saw was by Frank, who tried to con people that there was an eye gouge when there clearly wasn't, and by Finnerty who went on live tv and said Nickerson should be thrown out of the league. Now to me that is trying to influence Hansons decision and is bringing the game into disrepute by doing so and should be equally dealt with. I do agree with you about Danny Stewart in the statement although it also made me smile My point was in regards to Fifes frequent use of the referral system this season. Yeah I sort of figured that was what you were on about. Thing is Flyers had two players career ended in our first season through concussions caused by stick infractions and we did nothing about it. However this season we have decided to use the review system when we feel it is necessary and funnily enough every review we have asked to be reviewed has been returned in our favour so that says more about the officiating rather than our use of the review system. Its what it is there for and I have no issue in other teams using it on us but I do have issues with a coach from another team looking to have a player in this league lose his job
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Dec 17, 2013 17:36:07 GMT
I'm assuming the video misses something because 12 games for that is an absolute joke. Really not happy with the way the league's going with Hanson at the helm. As a ref he always seemed to punish the person rather than the offence, and it seems he's continuing with that.
It's a slightly different subject, but I really don't subscribe to all this "if someone gets injured, then you should be suspended". It's sport, people get injured. Yes, people who cross the line should be punished, but from the incidents this season I really haven't seen much to warrant the big suspensions being dished out. Problem now is, Hanson can't stop it - he's made a rod for his own back and has to stay at this level.
I'd say the only one I really think deserved a very long ban (having not seen every single incident) was the Conboy crashing into the lino, because touching officials at all is a definite no no. And he got half the games for that which Nickerson has just got for roughing up the other guy's enforcer after he just ran his nettie.
Something's wrong....
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Post by tootootrain on Dec 17, 2013 17:37:41 GMT
I do have issues with a coach from another team looking to have a player in this league lose his job If you think a rival coach having a post-game rant could in any way influence any decision taken by the Fife Flyers with regards a player's employment your issues run far deeper. The only people who have a say as to a player's employment by the Fife Flyers is the Fife Flyers. Finnerty has no more a say in Fife's hiring/firing than he does over what color training tops Fife's players wear.
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Post by pantherdman on Dec 17, 2013 18:18:26 GMT
If the on ice officials see something contensious on the ice they put it on report and it is reviewed by hanson monday.
That is the simplist solution. Chairman and clubs have no say.
If you reviewed every moment of every game the way they are now teams would struggle to ice 3 lines as theyd have 5 or 6 players suspended.
Look to not suspend players dont look for reasons too suspend.
The product is devalued if the most exciting players are banned.
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Dec 18, 2013 0:57:39 GMT
Wow, how times change. Was it that long ago we had characters like Payette, Cornish, Vial, Alison, Neickar, Maxwell, Schulte, and co playing over here? Imagine applying the current bans process to those types of players! I think the league are to quick to dish out the big bans at the minute! How long a ban did Payette get when he dived onto the Panthers bench that time?
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
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Post by 5+game on Dec 18, 2013 9:57:23 GMT
How long a ban did Payette get when he dived onto the Panthers bench that time? Do you mean just after he had jumped McAslan and pounded him whilst he was on the ice?
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Rhino#13
Jim Keyes
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Post by Rhino#13 on Dec 18, 2013 12:53:11 GMT
I watched this on Premiersport last night and I can see how being a repeat offender bumps up the suspension overall, but other than that the main problems I had with what he did were a) grabbing around the neck and hauling him down from behind without a huge amount of provocation if any, b) if he was choking him all the time they were down on the ice, that went on for some time which if you're out of breath already from your shift is downright dangerous, c) punching someone from behind whilst you've got them pinned down face first on the ice doesn't give them the hope of defending themselves, d) not letting go when told by the official puts the officials at risk especially when one of them got knocked down by the initial haul down taking his legs out from under him.
Actually, the latter point really reminded me of an incident at the World Ball Hockey finals this year when an official went down in a heap with two players in the middle of a fight (Canadien Justin Pender vs a Czech player - its on YouTube) and the official got a broken leg in the melee as he wouldn't stop fighting. I suppose he can argue he didn't choke him or he was provoked verbally, but other than that he hasn't got a leg to stand on......Nickerson I mean, not the ball hockey ref :-)
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Dec 18, 2013 17:14:53 GMT
Problem now is, Hanson can't stop it - he's made a rod for his own back and has to stay at this level. Completely agree with this, he's started so high he's got nowhere to go. The problem with our own Shanaban (Moray BansEm - see what I did there?), is we don't have NHL level roster resources, our teams all sail pretty close to the financial wind so losing an import for what, a fifth of the season, will nobble Fife big time. Also we still have the nonsense of British players being subject to a different rule here than imports - can't ban a British slot. Punish the player, not the team. If you think the team should've controlled the player (ie bench clearances) then sanction the team by other means. I hope they'll have a good think about the way this is going before too long,I don't think it's making the Elite League a better place.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Dec 18, 2013 19:57:30 GMT
Problem now is, Hanson can't stop it - he's made a rod for his own back and has to stay at this level. Completely agree with this, he's started so high he's got nowhere to go. The problem with our own Shanaban (Moray BansEm - see what I did there?), is we don't have NHL level roster resources, our teams all sail pretty close to the financial wind so losing an import for what, a fifth of the season, will nobble Fife big time. Also we still have the nonsense of British players being subject to a different rule here than imports - can't ban a British slot. Punish the player, not the team. If you think the team should've controlled the player (ie bench clearances) then sanction the team by other means. I hope they'll have a good think about the way this is going before too long,I don't think it's making the Elite League a better place. And that is absolutely the critical thing here - it's ruining the product on the ice, and we all know what follows that. I know loads of people say this for effect, but I'm about 75% certain I won't be renewing my season ticket next season. It was touch and go this season because I just find the product so far diluted from what I was used to, and this season is taking it to a different level - players are terrified of even throwing a decent check now. Seriously, an enforcer turtles when the opposition's enforcer goes for them and it's a 3 game ban?!! In years gone by that would just have been Spencer trying to draw a 2 minute PP! I blame Simms!
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Post by pantherdman on Dec 18, 2013 20:20:22 GMT
Great post dp.
The only player who has deserved a ban this season is Derek Campbell for the off ice bit, the main issue there was rink security tbf.
We should be keeping the top entertainers on the ice.
Tbh I'd rather get rid of all of the officials and play with no rules than analyse every little thing with a microscope.
Let the players play, decide things on the ice not on the video.
Ps where does the money go that the teams have to pay for the reviews? I'm guessing out of the game, not into a pot the improve officiating in the league.
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Post by sparkymark75 on Dec 18, 2013 20:37:56 GMT
Jeez, I wonder if any of the fans of your sister club have read the thoughts on here. They were pretty much wanting Nickerson deported!!!
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Post by tootootrain on Dec 18, 2013 20:38:13 GMT
Ps where does the money go that the teams have to pay for the reviews? I'm guessing out of the game, not into a pot the improve officiating in the league. Teams only have to pay if their request for a review fails. From memory it is £350.
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