NIC statement re Steelers game

[Admin]

STATEMENT - Nottingham Panthers v Sheffield v Steelers, Saturday 27th November 2004



Hi BJ. I have picked up on the comments re the Panthers v Steelers match scheduled for Saturday 27th November 2004 and would appreciate the opportunity to bring the supporters up to date.



Regrettably, we have to reschedule the match in order that the Arena can stage the ‘Gatecrasher’ (all-nighter) event which was only confirmed to us on Friday last week.

I am sure the majority of supporters understand that matches scheduled for a Saturday do have to be rescheduled from time to time although we do try to keep this to an absolute minimum. More often than not we have persuaded promoters to book a mid-week slot rather than a Saturday (or Sunday) although in terms of the tour logistics this sometimes creates problems for them.



We understand the supporters prefer a Saturday night fixture (as we do) and this is what we work to with Gary Moran during the close season, bearing in mind the other commitments the NIC has, not only to shows/events, but also to other ice sport events (as part of the Lottery Funding) such as the British Figure and Dance Skating Championships, the National Speed Skating Championships, various Novice/Junior Championships, a European Synchronised Skating Grand Prix etc. These events predominately take place at week ends and can only be staged in the Arena. As you may have deduced, I spend a lot of my working time juggling dates!!



To put the issue into perspective in terms of the Panthers, for the regular season i.e. from 11th September 2004 (Hull) to 12th March 2005 (Cardiff) of the 24 games on the fixture list, 15 matches were scheduled for Saturday evening, 3 matches for Sunday evening, 1 match on Boxing Day, leaving only 5 matches scheduled for mid-week.



We are in discussion with Gary to find the best suitable date for the Steelers match. Clearly, given the importance of this particular match to both sets of supporters, we will do all we can to ensure the best possible date is provided.



Thank you in anticipation of publishing this statement.

Regards, Geoff Huckstep, Chief Executive, National Ice Centre.

[nuttyrockeress]

Thanks for letting us know that BJ.

I hope they can re-schedule for a Saturday soon!! I have about 30-40 people wanting to come to that game, so it def. needs to be a saturday!!

[Lynne]

Once again, thank you to Geoff Huckstep for keeping us fans in the picture.

[heja]

how many people do they usally get watching those figure skating championship things?

[girdeaux]

Lynne said:

Once again, thank you to Geoff Huckstep for keeping us fans in the picture.

Absolutely Lynne. Thumbs up to the NIC bods for recognising this site as a voice to us all

[GP]

i have a load of family wanting to come to that match as well. so thanx for that bj!!!

[texpef]

oh thanks alot geoff for what effectively is absolutely NOTHING here.. yes there are other events taking place i am sure but nothing as lucrative as the panthers eh. Also panthers on a sat night is THE biggest payday apart from pop/rock concerts and in my experience these rarely happen at the weekends. To say he has to juggle with other events, with all due respect these arent going to generate the cash panthers would you would think therefore that the panthers would warrant some priority over other such events however it seems not given his last statement. Yes we get 15 out of 24 games on saturday (still leaves 2/5 of the season not on a saturday ie £100 of the season ticket money and given that i chose to spend my saturdays getting entertained by the panthers then it is still 2/5ths of my time when that wont happen)
It seems now that a better offer on a saturday comes along even at this late notice then it is byebye panthers we will see IF we can fit you in some other date that maybe a saturday or it maybe a tuesday, sunday who knows what day!! Imho this is hardly fair to the regular paying public who go week in week out and pay good money into the arena basically keeping it going until the next big concert comes along. If this match was so important to the NIC then they would NOT have double booked when there is plainly a booking already fixtured in for that day now would they?

[TartanPanther]

What absolute tosh from Mr Huckstep. All the NIC are interested in is where they can get the most money from, 7000 Hockey fans or 10000 dance fans paying a fortune to get in & a couple of quid for a bottle for water.
As for the commitment to shows/other events, wasnt the lottery money for a ice sports arena not an over sized disco? So the ice sports should take priority over all else.
And as for putting it in perspective 5 mid week games is over 20% & too much for some due to work & school the next day. Look at the mid week attendances.

[texpef]

pretty much what i wanted to say too tartan, thanks!

[MP]

Tex and Tartan - perhaps a visit to the real world is in order.

The NIC is there to make money as it happens. It has a role in the development of ice sports but it is supposed to earn money as well. Panthers are a commercial organisation and have to compete for their time at the NIC along with anyone else who has a business proposal that the NIC finds acceptable.

I'd say we are luckier than most teams who play in arenas in that the NIC do try and make as many Saturday nights available for hockey as they can. There is no rule that says concerts have to be held mid-week and never on a Saturday.

Sure, it looks shoddy that the NIC are revoking on the Steelers game, one of the biggest in the calendar, but they will make a deal more money on the gig than they would on the hockey. If Panthers have not placed an advanced bond with the NIC to secure the booking then we can hardly complain about the switch.

Other ice sports have to be given their chance at weekends too even if they are not bringing crowds of spectators. That is part of the NICs remit and secures some of its funding.

I'm no happier about it than you are but that's life. No point in whinging about it.

[Helen B]

I think its good that the NIC have made a statement regarding the postponement of the Steelers match but I also think that what has been said is just to fob off the supporters of both teams.

As I have said in the other thread I know people who have already forked out for a box to this match, now they will be disappointed.

I have also looked at the fixture lists of both teams and cannot see a date when this match would fit in, on a weekend in either of our schedules.

If the game can't be done on a weekend then there will be alot of upset fans out there, especially those who struggle to make mid-weeks, like myself, I can only make Tuesdays.

I hope this gets sorted soon, and when that game has been booked in for at least 3 months, it should not be right to change it for anything at only 6 weeks notice. If Gatecrasher wanted the NIC then they should have booked it the day before the fixture was agreed. And as someone said above, the lottery funding is for ICE SPORTS and therefore ICE SPORTS must take priority.

[heja]

i agree with the last 2 or 3 post, always almost a sell out if not always a sell out.

They should NOT be allowed to change fixtures for ice sports when they have been booked ages before things like concerts etc.

If it is changed to a week day then we might as well just be playing bracknell or another BNL team(no disrespect to them) that doesn't attract so many fans.

Panthers probably wont generate at much cash through ticket sales but i bet the arena doesn't change it rent prices even though it is there fault.

IT THE NATIONAL ICE CENTRE FIRST AND NOTTINGHAM ARENA SECOND.

[texpef]

Am in the real world MP and when an agreement is made you dont then back out of it otherwise people stop making agreements with you, if you have any doubt ask the steelers about sponsorship or local business support, once bitten twice shy.
The "commercial organisation" as you put it is primarily an ice based facility and was set up to provide facilities for ice based activities.
The NIC "generously" allow the panthers to play on a saturday as there is on the whole no better money spinner for them and if the gates from last season is anything to go by then i would expect at least 6000 fans to be at the first panthers/steelers game how does that compare to some pop show? This isnt about luck as you put it, the NIC know they wont get a better way of recouperating their very expensive costs back then fixtures on saturday as the gates are proved to be bigger than midweek especially against sheffield. Yet it seems when it suits they couldnt give a fig about us fans "hey they can always come on another day" seems to be the order of the day.
Recourse? well there doesnt seem to be any as the panthers arent able to play any where else and if we as fans want to watch them there isnt an alternative, however as customers i would hope that they would at least listen to us, geoff says he does enough times, not holding my breath here though are you?

[MP]

texpef said:

Recourse? well there doesnt seem to be any as the however as customers i would hope that they would at least listen to us, geoff says he does enough times, not holding my breath here though are you?

No Tex, on this case I'm not holding my breath as they won't be heeding us.

The contract between Panthers and the NIC allows for the alteration of dates in these circumstances so we just have to live with it - and hope the re-arrangement of the fixture is satisfactory.

As for the figures:

Panthers might get a crowd of 6000 with an average ticket price of £10 - say £60,000.
If Gatecrasher got a crowd of 6000 at an average ticket price of £30 - say £180,000.

Figures speak for themselves. No surprise that the MEN prefers to book concerts to ice hockey games. The Hallam chose the steady income of the Christmas pantomime rather than staging hockey matches.

So far we have done pretty well at the NIC in regard to getting prime ice time. I hope that continues but in a commercial world there is no given right to it.

[martin]

Well if Panthers haven't paid the bond then its their fault IMO. Not that I'm particularly bothered that the fixture has to be moved anyway. They can move it to midnight on a Tuesday for I care - I'll still turn up!

[Bretters]

They could re-arrange the Panthers vs Steelers match for the following Saturday (December 4th) when they meant to be playing Fife, and just re-arrange the Fife match, or even put the Gatecrasher back to that week, because the NIC is free that week.

[nuttyrockeress]

The game has been moved to .......

Sunday 31st October -

Perhaps we can give them a "Fright" that night!!

[Bretters]

Thats a good date with me, theres also the Edinburgh game the night before, so two home games in two days then.

[broders]

martin said:

Well if Panthers haven't paid the bond then its their fault IMO. Not that I'm particularly bothered that the fixture has to be moved anyway. They can move it to midnight on a Tuesday for I care - I'll still turn up!

You must be jocking i work nights and will have to book a days hol to watch the match

[twix]

Three games in three days ending with Steelers? Fantastic scheduling

twix

[Bretters]

Could work out bad though, after playing Friday, Saturday, then Sunday, they will feel like there legs are going to fall off by the time Sunday comes, so could be an advantage for Steelers.

[grayhead]

Bretters said:

Could work out bad though, after playing Friday, Saturday, then Sunday, they will feel like there legs are going to fall off by the time Sunday comes, so could be an advantage for Steelers.

I'm amazed that GM has agreed to this, given that this will be our third game in 3 nights.
Surely it would of been better to play the game on Sunday 28th November when both teams were available. I know that the Arena would need to work overtime to clear up the Gatecrasher event, but this has been done before.
Moving the game to 31st October is almost gifting Steelers the points and ALSO risking injury to tired Panthers players. IMHO

[Bretters]

I'm amazed that GM has agreed to this, given that this will be our third game in 3 nights.
Surely it would of been better to play the game on Sunday 28th November when both teams were available. I know that the Arena would need to work overtime to clear up the Gatecrasher event, but this has been done before.
Moving the game to 31st October is almost gifting Steelers the points and ALSO risking injury to tired Panthers players. IMHO

I agree 100%, at first i thought it was a good date, because they usually play on a Saturday then again on Sunday anyway, but when i saw that they have a game on the Friday aswell i changed my mind.

[fightygirl]

Hmmmm....this hasn't been thought through very well at all has it? And Moran is on about swinging the axe if players don't put in the effort? (NEP today). They will be cream crackered having 3 games in a row!

[Admin]

NIC- FURTHER STATEMENT



Whilst I understand fully the disappointment expressed by the supporters regarding the postponement of the home match against the Steelers, some of the comments made are ill informed and it is important to me that inaccuracies are corrected.



As I said previously, the use of the Arena by the Panthers has to be put into perspective against the ‘bigger picture’. Yes, the Panthers matches are by far the biggest revenue earner to the NIC after shows and events in the Arena itself, (although the income from public skating and our sport development programme is much higher for the NIC as a whole). We do afford the Panthers priority against some other ice sports events and we also try to schedule shows and events away from Saturday nights but sometimes this is not possible. For further information on scheduling I would add the following:



In the regular season, there are 28 Saturday nights available between 11th September 2004 and 12th March 2005.
We originally scheduled 15 matches for the Panthers home fixtures.
Christmas Day & New Year’s Day fall on a Saturday this year; however, Panthers are at home on Boxing Day and 2nd January 2005. (2 days).
Panthers playing away in Continental Cup. (1 day)
Saturday 29th January is available for use by the Panthers as is Saturday 30th October. (2 days).
We have 4 other ice sports events scheduled: British Figure Skating Championships; European Synchronised Skating Grand Prix; GB Speed skating Camp; and GB Speed Skating National Trials.
We have 5 shows/events booked on a Saturday two of which are for ice shows and three for events- Paul Weller, Manic Street Preachers and Gatecrasher.
Given that it is the preference of most other Elite League and BNL teams to also play their home matches on a Saturday night, the ratio in respect of the Panthers fixtures is better than the average of 12 or 13 fixtures out of the 25 matches scheduled for the season.


A number of your contributors (most notably Mountain Panther) quite rightly point out that the NIC/Nottingham Arena is a commercial concern and is operated as such. I make no apologies to anyone for ensuring the centre is run as efficiently as possible. When I was appointed as Chief Executive in October 2001, the operating loss for the NIC was almost £1million….a shortfall that had to be funded by Nottingham City Council or, to put it another way, by all the Council Tax payers of Nottingham.



Through the hard work and dedication of my staff, the centre is now moving towards the ‘break even’ target set by the City Council and we will continue to strive to achieve this. Moreover, if we didn’t adopt an aggressive approach to revenue generation, the costs to all users of the NIC (including the Panthers) would have to be raised significantly. You don’t need to be a financial wizard to work out to whom these increased charges would be passed on to!!



I am sure the majority of Panthers supporters acknowledge that the shows and events we bring to the Arena are a major source of income, and for this reason the contract with the Panthers provides for such events to take priority. Occasionally I have two promoters chasing the same date and I have to decide which show is likely to be more financially beneficial to the NIC. This is the commercial reality of running a business such as ours.



However, the shows/events at the Nottingham Arena are more than that to the City of Nottingham in terms of the revenue it brings into the local economy. For example, the shows generate a minimum of 30,000 hotel bed nights, produce in excess of £100,000 in car parking fees, provide major spend in the areas of retail, bars, restaurants, clubs etc etc. Furthermore, the shows and events play a significant role in redressing some of the very negative images of the City at a time when we need it most. You only have to look at the Play off Week-end(s) held so successfully over the past three years as an example to see how important the NIC is in terms of fostering civic pride and positive images of the City.



Reference was also made by some people in your postings to the fact that as other ice sports do not attract the same number of supporters that the Panthers do, they are perceived as ‘second rate’ citizens. Notwithstanding the fact that we do prioritise the Panthers fixtures wherever possible, there are occasions when this is just not feasible in terms of the other sports 'events calendar'. For example, we are proud to be hosting the British Figure and Dance Skating Championships for the first time. This is the premier event organised by the National Ice Skating Association (NISA) and always takes place over the first week/end in December. As we have some 20 British Champions in our 200 strong Skate Academy won’t it be fantastic for them to skate on their ‘home’ rink in front of the’ home’ crowd…even though this may only be a few hundred spectators. Also, as the NIC is home to the GB Short Track Speed Skating squad it is not surprising they wish to stage their camps and National Trials here. Panthers fans should understand that the Sports Lottery Fund put £22.5m into the NIC to promote participation in, and development of, all ice sports at all levels. They would take a dim view of a profit-making, privately-owned, commercial enterprise such as the Panthers pushing other ice sports to the margins. As always, it is a question of balance.



In conclusion, I have always tried to provide the Panthers supporters with as much information as possible when points are raised on your website. On this issue, I knew I would be damned if I did respond and damned if I didn’t! I accept that it goes with the territory!



Sorry this posting is so long but I hope it provides further information to the supporters who use your website.



As soon as we have confirmation of the rescheduled date we will post it on the web site.



Geoff Huckstep, Chief Executive, National Ice Centre

Thanks again Geoff for the update and insight into the reasoning behind the fixture change.