MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 6, 2004 11:43:19 GMT
A very good read. Can I nominate Roger Black as a future victim? Good idea Tom. I'll run it past Dave and see what he thinks.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 6, 2004 12:10:07 GMT
Igor said:-
BDS said:-
Wigwam said:-
Which all goes to prove that none of you have bothered to actually READ what I write.... just assume. How many times do I have to say it? I DO NOT HATE THE STEELERS! My disgust is reserved for a very specific facet of the organisation.... the arrogance, hypocrisy, hatred and contempt of their publicity machine.... fronted/led/controlled by DS. It IS very tiring having to listen to the same RUBBISH over and over again... all coming from Sheffield. Am I not allowed to have an opinion on that, BDS? You seem to think DS can say whatever the hell he likes - and he's got a publicity machine to use. I don't - the only voice I have is this forum and others like it. Why should DS's 'official' actions - those that have started and sustained this whole situation - be legitimate, and my objections to it not?
Once again, it seems that if you're a hate-mongering PR-**** from Sheffield, you can get away with whatever you want..... if you're a fan who is the OBJECT of that hatred, you are supposed to keep quiet and not have an opinion.
Forum rules prevent me from adequately expressing my contempt for THAT attitude.
It's simple..... solve the problem at the source.... and the source is Sheffield.
Edited to remove libellous comment - (MP)
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Post by Big Dave Steeler on Oct 6, 2004 12:18:48 GMT
Which all goes to prove that none of you have bothered to actually READ what I write.... just assume. How many times do I have to say it? I DO NOT HATE THE STEELERS! My disgust is reserved for a very specific facet of the organisation.... the arrogance, hypocrisy, hatred and contempt of their publicity machine.... fronted/led/controlled by DS. It IS very tiring having to listen to the same RUBBISH over and over again... all coming from Sheffield. Am I not allowed to have an opinion on that, BDS? You seem to think DS can say whatever the hell he likes - and he's got a publicity machine to use. I don't - the only voice I have is this forum and others like it. Why should DS's 'official' actions - those that have started and sustained this whole situation - be legitimate, and my objections to it not? Once again, it seems that if you're a hate-mongering PR-nazi from Sheffield, you can get away with whatever you want..... if you're a fan who is the OBJECT of that hatred, you are supposed to keep quiet and not have an opinion. Forum rules prevent me from adequately expressing my contempt for THAT attitude. It's simple..... solve the problem at the source.... and the source is Sheffield. And it just goes to show that you dont read what I post either, when have I once said you are not allowed an alternative opinion, be interested to find where I have said that!!! Let me quote something from the Q and A "In Sheffield and other places I have always tried to answer questions put to me. When I have met panthers and other team's fans I will stand and debate. I won't stand and listen to a tirade of abuse, but will stand and debate" Ever thought about doing that Shaggy??
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Post by Wigwam on Oct 6, 2004 12:28:53 GMT
Shaggy, I have no desire to get into a heated debate, or fall out with ya, but....
Your always having a rant at the Steelers, & Dave Simms. You say you don't hate them, but you certainly don't like 'em much at best judging by your postings..Which I HAVE read. Every time there is a subject involving the word Sheffield, it seems like your always there...with a rant. The VERY thing you accuse Simmsy of!.
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Igor
Pat Casey
Yeth, marthter?
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Post by Igor on Oct 6, 2004 16:42:45 GMT
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 6, 2004 18:16:29 GMT
Shaggy, I have no desire to get into a heated debate, or fall out with ya, but.... Your always having a rant at the Steelers, & Dave Simms. You say you don't hate them, but you certainly don't like 'em much at best judging by your postings..Which I HAVE read. Every time there is a subject involving the word Sheffield, it seems like your always there...with a rant. The VERY thing you accuse Simmsy of!. Well, you're wrong. My 'negative attitude' (insert description of choice) re Sheffield is reserved for Simms and his hate campaign, and those who support him in such. You have obviously missed where I have expressed concern for the Steelers fans getting screwed over re the Ice Sheffield thing, where I have consistently said that it would be a bad thing if the Steelers went bust - where I have said that we should give Rob Stewart a chance to show that he'll play British players and not hold Blaisdell's attitude against Stewart - etc etc..... believe it or not, the list goes on and on. You know why? - because I do not regard Simms as being inseperable from the Sheffield Steelers and their fans. Far too many people see criticism of one automatically meaning criticism of all the rest. Well, that's inaccurate. I'll ahve a go at one if I think it deserved.... but it does NOT mean I'm having a go at the rest. It's as plain and simple as that. I keep saying this.... why the hell does nobody ever listen? And why the hell should I constantly be forced to defend my opinion (or run away and hide) when Simms and his disciples seem to be allowed to say whatever they like? Double standards - we wouldn't even be having this debate if not for the campaign of vitriol started and continued by Simms and his cohorts. Why? - because I wouldn't have anything to object to!
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Post by girdeaux on Oct 6, 2004 18:44:46 GMT
Will you stop adding fuel to the fire
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Post by texpef on Oct 6, 2004 19:24:26 GMT
so BDS you acknowledge that the days of the old heineken premier and division one were the best ways to go then... only prob is it was your team that was one of the instigators of its demise how worms turn eh!! ;D
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Post by girdeaux on Oct 6, 2004 19:36:34 GMT
so BDS you acknowledge that the days of the old heineken premier and division one were the best ways to go then... only prob is it was your team that was one of the instigators of its demise how worms turn eh!! ;D What?
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Post by texpef on Oct 6, 2004 19:39:21 GMT
do you feel the need anton to reply to all my posts EVEN when they are not aimed at you even in passing... for those that find it hard to read BDS said he would prefer a unified league with a top and second tier a la the old heineken league before ISL was even dreamed about maybe you werent around then eh.
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Post by girdeaux on Oct 6, 2004 19:42:53 GMT
do you feel the need anton to reply to all my posts EVEN when they are not aimed at you even in passing... for those that find it hard to read BDS said he would prefer a unified league with a top and second tier a la the old heineken league before ISL was even dreamed about maybe you werent around then eh. Ooh, someone's still grumpy because I dared to erh regarding you lame attempt at making humour out of the comparisons with Auschwitz
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Post by texpef on Oct 6, 2004 19:52:06 GMT
and the relevence of that is??..
i have moved on in my life why havent you?
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Post by Big Dave Steeler on Oct 6, 2004 19:56:51 GMT
so BDS you acknowledge that the days of the old heineken premier and division one were the best ways to go then... only prob is it was your team that was one of the instigators of its demise how worms turn eh!! ;D texy love, id thought you would be more aggressive than that ;D I make no appologies, but I was not around then (which is a shame, would have seen some good nights of hockey) but IMO that IS the way forward, and I have to be honest, I dont give a damm what has happened in the past, its what is in the future which counts. Sorry for forwarding an opinion
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Post by texpef on Oct 6, 2004 20:06:38 GMT
well dave its nice to see that some of the steelers fans are prepared to accept that their club had a hand in the destruction of the stable structure of ice hockey in this country and that it is again something to aspire to again....
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Post by girdeaux on Oct 6, 2004 20:07:37 GMT
How on earth did the Sheffield Steelers destroy anything
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Post by Big Dave Steeler on Oct 6, 2004 20:16:54 GMT
well dave its nice to see that some of the steelers fans are prepared to accept that their club had a hand in the destruction of the stable structure of ice hockey in this country and that it is again something to aspire to again.... I think if you talk to the MAJORITY of Steelers fans, they will all say that is the best way forward, simply because there was stability. However, word to the wise, dont be quoting me wrongly, I might have some locals thinking im converting ;D
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Doom
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,591
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Post by Doom on Oct 6, 2004 20:22:09 GMT
well dave its nice to see that some of the steelers fans are prepared to accept that their club had a hand in the destruction of the stable structure of ice hockey in this country and that it is again something to aspire to again.... Stable structure of Ice Hockey? Is that the same Ice Hockey that when I first started watching:- 1. The Panthers found themselves bottom of the Heineken Premier Division, because they were unable to use home ice due to a problem with the ice plant/zamboni. 2. The Steelers tried to go straight into the Premier Division in place of Solihull, who were in financial trouble 3. Regularly saw financial problems with Peterborough, Norwich/Peterborough or whatever they fancied calling themselves at the time. 4. Ditto Billingham, Cleveland etc. 5. Whoever signed the Cooper brothers were almost guaranteed the title...Durham, Cardiff, back to Durham.... I think you need to take those rose tinted spectacles off Texpef, the sport had just as many problems before and just after the Steelers started up as they do today. By the way, I don't see BDS accepting that his club 'had a hand in the destruction of the stable structure of ice hockey in this country', he actually states he wasn't watching the sport then Regards Doom
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Post by Big Dave Steeler on Oct 6, 2004 20:40:57 GMT
By the way, I don't see BDS accepting that his club 'had a hand in the destruction of the stable structure of ice hockey in this country', he actually states he wasn't watching the sport then Now come on Doom, you know that our forum colleague has a different way of posting to the norm, bit of consideration is needed eh
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2004 21:28:03 GMT
I think people read a bit too much into DS's 'I hate Nottingham' statement.
Before I met the guy, I had a pretty low opinion of him to be honest but having interviewed him for The Cat's Whiskers and talked to him about The Rink Rush I find him a likeable bloke.
If he really did hate Nottingham and everything to do with it would he have actually given me the time of day?
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Admin
Forum Admin
Posts: 3,181
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Post by Admin on Oct 7, 2004 0:32:17 GMT
Will you boys stop bickering?! Don't make me come in there!
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Post by DavidSimms on Oct 7, 2004 12:01:25 GMT
Firstly, pleased that most (never expected Shaggy to) people enjoyed the Q&A. I think if you read, or Shaggy, get someone to read it for you, then you will see its a balanced read.
Anyone who thinks the 14 team league, all together, is the way forward either is crackers or hasnt sat and thought through the whole process. League funding, team funding and profile. It wont work. For example the Steelers levy last year from gates was just over £60,000, this coming year expected to be about £40,000 (£20,000 difference (for you Shaggy) already to league coffers, the same apllies elsewhere, trust me it does.
For those postings that say the Steelers need the Panthers (gates) more than the other way around, rubbish, both clubs need each other equally. It also isnt just about the away support, as welcome as that is in both buildings. More Nottingham people go to a Steelers game than any other, even if there was no away support those gates are bigger.
The clubs and the sport as a whole needs both the Steelers and the Panthers, and they, we, all need the rivalry to remain the same as the key fixtures in our sports callender.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 7, 2004 12:13:46 GMT
The clubs and the sport as a whole needs both the Steelers and the Panthers, and they, we, all need the rivalry to remain the same as the key fixtures in our sports callender. The three or four bumper gates that the Panthers - Steelers games give both clubs each season must be a big help in meeting the running costs for an arena based team. In effect they are a bonus payment which can help to offset the costs incurred by other games that are less well attended. That has to be a consideration when looking at future league structures. If Panthers and Steelers were in different leagues/conferences and only played each other once or twice at home, how big a hole would that make in the income for the clubs? It could be quite significant.
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Post by lasttrainhome on Oct 7, 2004 14:25:49 GMT
How long till Shaggy bites??
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Post by gazzathedevil on Oct 7, 2004 15:17:00 GMT
But at the same time, how many new rivalries will happen? before cardiff dropped to the BNL our biggest game was against the steelers because we always used to run each other close. nowadays we still have big gates against the steelers, but also against Coventry who are considered rivals.
Yes in this climate you need each other but if fans give a chance to other teams and didnt see them as 'lesser' opponenets then maybe that wouldnt be the case?
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Oct 7, 2004 16:15:44 GMT
Yes in this climate you need each other but if fans give a chance to other teams and didnt see them as 'lesser' opponenets then maybe that wouldnt be the case? That's very true Gazza. The arena based teams do need those really big paydays to help with the running costs and at the moment the Nottingham - Sheffield clashes seem to be the only games that get anywhere near filling the big arenas. I remember the Nottingham - Cardiff games of old - they had a great atmosphere but at the moment I would be (pleasantly) surprised if we sold out the NIC for a Devils game. That's why our clubs are so keen to keep the Panthers - Steelers thing going.
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